ABC Brat Camp

[Deborah]

There were so many red flags for the educated viewer.

Let's take the deprivation diet: Yeh, yeh, I got the point- the objective was to create enough deprivation around food that they would appreciate such a basic thing. But, they do not have to serve unseasoned oats, rice, couscous, beans, and lentils. I was a vegetarian for a number of years and I can tell you that these foods are as bland as can be without seasoning. I love them, but wouldn't tolerate them unseasoned. That little torture is unnecessary and potentially detrimental. They could serve them simple vegetarian fare that actually tasted good. AND wasn't burned. Why not make the goal to have the kids come out enjoying nutritious food?

Anyone else notice the scene where the kid was FORCED (key) to eat his burned, bland, oatmeal mush? The narrorator (or staff) clarified to the viewers that the kids HAVE to have 'a certain number of calories' per day. Bull squat. That was a lame justification/excuse for 'forcing' the kid to eat it. State regulations require that the USDA requirements be provided, BUT prohibits providers from forcing a child to eat anything. To force a kid to eat unpleasant food until they puke is abuse, compounded by making him dig a 'new hole' if he puked.
I think 1800 calories was mentioned as some point in the program? USDA recommends 2800 with 'normal' exertion. For the exertion they were enduring it would likely be near 3,000, and lots of variety.

As for the 'Earth Names'. Programs like SW, Vision Quest, Distant Drums, have all highjacked and are capitalizing on the romanticism of Native Sprituality. I'm sure some parents fanticize that their kid is going off to have a bonefide vision quest, some spiritual epiphany. These folks don't know the first thing about vision quest. There is nothing about these programs that vaguely resembles vision quest.
More about that in my post on Brat Camp at Sociopranos:
http://www.sociopranos.com/forums/threa ... &start=301

And what a contradiction. It wasn't that long ago that the prevailing attitude was, 'the only good Indian is a dead Indian'. Now middle class white people are sending their kids to wilderness torture camps with NA themes.

I'm sure the owner(s) is christian or mormon. Why not slap a christian name on the business and let the staff pick biblical names? The owner's biblical name could be Ceasar. They could do burnt offerings- perhaps that's what the oatmeal mush was? They could sacrifice kids on the alter who didn't come into compliance. Or ban them from the group without food/water until they repented. What they are doing is a disgrace and very disrespectful to native spirituality.

In the case of Ian August, Wardle played on the the mother's new agey woo-woo belief system. Played this game with Ian, who was sure that he'd known Wardle in a past life. Give me a damn break. And when they killed him by walking him to death, his mother wrote it off as Ian's 'karma' and felt sorry for what the Wardle's were going through because they had been so 'supportive' of her having to deal with this unruly child.  ::puke::  ::puke::  His death was clearly due to neglect.

To address the age of majority issue. I don't know about other states, but in Tx a teen 14 or older can refuse any form of psych/drug rehab treatment. They can walk out the door, without a court order. Why do you think parents are shipping their kids to the desert, thousands of miles from home?

[Deborah]

Anon,
You, like this documercial are attempting to shape the perception of your audience.
These kids are not 'camping, working, and walking'. They are living in austere elements for 60-90 days doing mindless 'work' and being force marched on limited calories, and worst of all being publicly exploited by sadistic capitalists.
I suggest you enroll yourself for a little sensitivity training.
It's a simple and sadistic mind that believes this is the way to 'help' anyone, much less a developing teen.
No doubt, some will give the appearence of having a radical transformation. Three months in hell can have that affect. Some will learn to 'act' well.

[Anonymous]

A burnt oatmeal diet on television. This is a very sick society. That right there, forcing a kid to eat such shitty food, is part of known Thought Control techniques. When the kids realize what ABC and this boot camp did to them, they really ought to sue them out of existence. ABC and this television show have no place in a decent and civil society. SHAME.

[Deborah]

I was just reviewing a thread on the death of Ian August at Skyline Journey and happened upon this info re: Utah regs. A response to a program parent:

Regs state that packs: shall not exceed 20 percent of the consumer's body weight. If the consumer is required to carry other items, the total of all weight carried shall not exceed 30% of the consumer's body weight.

Regs require 6 quarts [of water] per day. How long were the hikes? How many quarts did your son carry in his pack, along with the rocks and other supplies? Did he receive electrolyte replacement? Did your son receive 3,000 calorie per day? And an additional 30-100% more calories when hiking and in cold weather? Did he take a multiple vitamin daily?
***

These are Utah regulations. Since SW isn't licensed in Oregon, whose guidelines are they following? One of the Industry Associations? Their comments re: the weight of packs and calorie requirements were deceptive, giving the audience the impression that they were monitored and following state regulations.

And about those packs- it was stated in the beginning of the program that the packs weighed 40#, then later one of the kids claimed that they had told her 33 or 35#.

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-14 16:23:00, Anonymous wrote:

I may not have all the answers when it comes to dealing with problem children, but this whole Brat Camp thing was very misleading and puts off a very unsettling vibe. Too bad most Americans won't recognize that.

Thank you  :nworthy:

You've got the most important answers, I think.

We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark.  The real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.  
--Plato

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-14 16:45:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-06-04 00:51:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Just wanted to point out that it appears you are confusing TWO DIFFERENT TELEVISION SHOWS.  





The original "Brat Camp" was an English show featuring SIX familes who sent their kids to a 'bootcamp' in the States...it won some awards in Europe, and had a repeat airing several months ago on the ABC Family Channel (hence the confusion).





The UPCOMING "BRAT CAMP" is produced by Shapiro/Grodner Productions and sends NINE kids to a camp in Oregon called Sagewalk, which, for the record, is NOT a bootcamp...but is indeed an award winning wilderness therapy program, where certified clinical therapists try to help troubled teens deal with the difficult issues of their lives.  No one is yelling at these kids or telling them to "drop and give me 20!"  No double-speak intended, it just may be that your definition of a "bootcamp" is different than mine.  





This new "BRAT CAMP" is a well-made, uplifting and emotional series...and you might want to watch an episode or two before making premature judgements based on incomplete 'research.'  





I'm not trying to brainwash you or anything...it's just that you might actually like it!  I hope you do anyway.  It was a labor of love for all involved.  And I'm very proud of this show.





Sincerely,





John Platt


Co-Executive Producer, "Brat Camp" (the new American one...!)"

  Hi John,



  The majority of posters on this site are HELL BENT against ANY kind of treatment programs for teens, because they are ALL abusive, torturous, money hungry places (lol).  SO, don't expect to have to many intelligent replies to your posts.  Most of the posters either never finished/completed the program they were in, or they backslid afterwards and want to blame ALL the wrongs in their lives on the program they were in as a teen (which they HAD to do SOMETHING to get to a point where their parents went to these lengths to help them). Sad, but true.

  Brat Camp was very interesting to watch, and I think these kids CAN get a LOT out of their experince there, that can help them to deal with life constructively as opposed to lying, drugging and being nasty and violent.

"

How much do you want to bet that this is that John guy responding to himself?  LOL!

[Anonymous]

I think it was a typical WWASP defender. There's one of them who likes to CAPITALIZE every other word. Makes it pretty obvious its the same person.

[alaskaboy]

Hello John,
      I thought that I should let you know that I went to Sage Walk almost two years ago and it is not what you think. When I was there I actually mentioned making a T.V show of the place to two of the staff, only to show the world what a messed up camp it really is. You cannot expect to make a "stepford" teenager and not have them suffer later on. I was clean of drugs before i left to Sagewalk and am clean now, however i have had extremely hard times getting over what happened in the Oregon high desert. I currently am in the Army National Gaurd and I have one semester of highschool to finish and then off to college. The semester of highschool that I have to finish is because of the classes that I failed when I was kidnapped off to SW. Sagewalk made me not appreciate the outdoors as much also, and about my family when i returned I realized that my mom has some deep problems in the head and I got the heck out of her house. I love and respect her for giving birth to me and feeding, clothing me, but that is it. Not to mention the physical problems that Sagewalk left me with.. bad knees, back problems, etc. I had severe emotional problems from the place. I am currently working with Lawyers to assemble my case and there will be a not so pretty lawsuite very soon. I am not alone in this. Those kids need to run away, I wish I had.       Loren[ This Message was edited by: alaskaboy on 2005-07-17 00:48 ][ This Message was edited by: alaskaboy on 2005-07-17 00:52 ]

[alaskaboy]

On 2005-07-15 16:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-07-14 16:45:00, Anonymous wrote:


"

On 2005-06-04 00:51:00, Anonymous wrote:



"Just wanted to point out that it appears you are confusing TWO DIFFERENT TELEVISION SHOWS.  







The original "Brat Camp" was an English show featuring SIX familes who sent their kids to a 'bootcamp' in the States...it won some awards in Europe, and had a repeat airing several months ago on the ABC Family Channel (hence the confusion).







The UPCOMING "BRAT CAMP" is produced by Shapiro/Grodner Productions and sends NINE kids to a camp in Oregon called Sagewalk, which, for the record, is NOT a bootcamp...but is indeed an award winning wilderness therapy program, where certified clinical therapists try to help troubled teens deal with the difficult issues of their lives.  No one is yelling at these kids or telling them to "drop and give me 20!"  No double-speak intended, it just may be that your definition of a "bootcamp" is different than mine.  







This new "BRAT CAMP" is a well-made, uplifting and emotional series...and you might want to watch an episode or two before making premature judgements based on incomplete 'research.'  







I'm not trying to brainwash you or anything...it's just that you might actually like it!  I hope you do anyway.  It was a labor of love for all involved.  And I'm very proud of this show.







Sincerely,







John Platt



Co-Executive Producer, "Brat Camp" (the new American one...!)"

  Hi John,





  The majority of posters on this site are HELL BENT against ANY kind of treatment programs for teens, because they are ALL abusive, torturous, money hungry places (lol).  SO, don't expect to have to many intelligent replies to your posts.  Most of the posters either never finished/completed the program they were in, or they backslid afterwards and want to blame ALL the wrongs in their lives on the program they were in as a teen (which they HAD to do SOMETHING to get to a point where their parents went to these lengths to help them). Sad, but true.


  Brat Camp was very interesting to watch, and I think these kids CAN get a LOT out of their experince there, that can help them to deal with life constructively as opposed to lying, drugging and being nasty and violent.


"

How much do you want to bet that this is that John guy responding to himself?  LOL!"

[hurleygurley]

I didn't see the British show but I will try to find how how to get a dvd or something of the it,  unless someone has a dvd or tape to loan out?

What is disturbing about the shows that shine a positive  light on a deserving program is that they may ignore the fact that these are huge exceptions and  soooooo far from the rules  - the horrendour reality of the other "boot camps."

I felt this way reading Dave Marcus' book but in his he pointed out some good points about the program without looking under any rocks. I know ASR has big problems but it may be one of the "easier" of the programs, being in NY and god knows how Marcus got in but certainly the group and counselors he worked with had to have been carefully chosen. I've been in contact with him to point out the huge problems his book raises even though there are pieces of the book that are excellent and report interventions by therapists that would be useful. But he seemed unaware of the civil liberties issues, and the whole world of the sick industry. I believe he is not a malicious person but don't know what price he paid the devil to do the book. I am in the process of establishing rapport with him and hoping to fully inform him, as he is a Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist, seems to care about kids and seems like a good guy. He also takes a good stab at Aspen towars the end mentioning how the ed. cons. are treated like royalty in limos etc...

I am working HARD on getting SF Bay Area series coverage with a good connection I have who understands and is a very compassionate man. He's been waiting for the "right" reporter to free herself up to take the tremendous amount of time to do a series (even though I said I could practically right it myself, refs and all and hand it to her to check and edit!).

Now that I've lost my personal battle for the girl in Aspen's Youth Care/Pinridge RTC in Utah. (If you're interested in details send me a pm.) I am all guns ready to take this on a broader scale.

BTW, the damage was done to my young friend, all of what was suspected was true except that the education she got there was not too bad.

[Anonymous]

What is disturbing about the shows that shine a positive light on a deserving program is that they may ignore the fact that these are huge exceptions and soooooo far from the rules - the horrendour reality of the other "boot camps."

Neither of the British shows featured deserving programs.  Just read the posts in this forum about RedCliff Ascent.  And Turn-About Ranch is on ISAC's watch list.

[Anonymous]

Oh Please!! What whiners!! These kids are more than brats!! They're on the road to death, breaking the law, or killing someone themselves. What would you suggest parents do? The ONLY thing I questioned on the show was the 7 mile hike. I thought it was a bit much. I couldn't have done it. But they made it, didn't they? How about all you complainers take care of all the nasty children out there? You have NO idea what these kids put their parents through. This is a last resort for these parents. PLEASE don't act like there were other alternatives.

[Deborah]

So, in a therapeutic sense, would 'brat' be the ethical term to use for someone who is on the road to death, breaking the law, or killing someone themselves. Naw, I don't think so. The later is a somewhat accurate description for a small percentage of these teens. The former is just judgment, the scarlet letter, intended to shape the publics opinion of the distressed and neglected kids. One program staff refered to them as 'emotional terrorists'. Should anyone in a therapeutic role be using these terms? No. Unethical.

For starters, parents could begin to take responsibility for the relationship they have created with their kid and at least one parent can enroll and go through the program too.

Your assumption is wrong. Many of the parents here, myself included, have dealt with our own distressed teens. And in my case, my son's distress was due to having spent 6 months in an abusive program that resulted in a lawsuit.

The only whiners are the genuinely ignorant and helpless parents who see themselves as victims of their children. Sign them up. I'm sure they'll see the light when they are tortured to a breaking point. If it's good for the kid, it has to be good for the parent.

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-18 16:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

What would you suggest parents do?

I suggest that if you think this sort of treatment will benefit your kid, then you administer it yourself. If not, find a better way. But paying strangers to rough up your kids for you is just sickening!

Truth does not have to be accepted on faith. Scientists do not hold hands every Sunday, singing, "Yes gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! Amen.
--Dan Barker, former evangelist and author

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-18 16:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

"They're on the road to death, breaking the law, or killing someone themselves."

This is a typical argument of a program supporter. I cringe everytime I read this, because it couldn't be further from the truth. Sure, you might believe it, but it's not true for 99% of the kids sent to these programs. Oh, but I know, your kid is different, they surely would have killed themselves, right? When tens of millions of other teens do fine without programs, dealing with the same issues.

Let's look at your quote again:

On 2005-07-18 16:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

"They're on the road to death, breaking the law, or killing someone themselves."

These are the kids there

Lauren     17, Davis, CA
Jada       15, Boston, MA
Nick       14, Seattle, WA
Shawn       17, Irvine, CA
Heather         16, Centreville, VA
Lexie       17, St. Helena, CA
Frank       15, Sacramento, CA
Derek       14, Little Rock, AR
Isaiah       17, Winton, CA

The Reason the kids are there:

Lauren was a straight "A" student who excelled in everything, until her father suddenly passed away when she was 11. Unable to deal with the grief, Lauren turned to drugs and admits to smoking pot every day and doing whatever it takes to get her fix. Lauren's mother sent her to SageWalk hoping that her daughter would face up to her father's death and quit drugs.

---

Jada refuses to go to school. She has dropped out of two boarding schools and nine private schools in the last six years. Instead of going to school, she throws parties and experiments with sex, drugs and alcohol. Jada's an aspiring singer who thinks she doesn't need school because she's going to be a star one day. She's also a compulsive liar who is always making excuses. Her parents sent her to SageWalk so that she'll become motivated about her life, stop taking things for granted and start telling the truth.

-----

Nick is a dyslexic teenager who is constantly fighting with his family. Not only does he disrespect his father and yell obscenities at his mother, he once even pulled a knife on his twin brother. Unable to deal with Nick's relentless anger issues any longer, his parents made the decision to send him to SageWalk.

-----

Shawn has been struggling with drug abuse for several years. He admits to stealing from his own mother and is constantly truant from school. Shawn's parents believe his problems stem from the fact that he was adopted, and they sent him to SageWalk hoping that he'll learn to face his abandonment issues and gain self-esteem.

-----

Heather used to be athletic and innocent until she started hanging out with the wrong crowd. Now she experiments with all types of drugs and is constantly running away from home for days at a time. Her adoptive parents sent her to SageWalk because they feel that Heather is heading down the same road as her birth mother - to a drug-induced coma.

-----

    
Lexie used to be a good girl who rode horses and excelled in school, but when she was 11, Lexie was molested by someone she trusted. She has since suffered from depression, become verbally abusive toward her parents, given up horseback riding and started failing in school. Lexie's parents sent her to SageWalk hoping she'll learn to deal with the secret that still haunts her.

-----

    
Frank has anger management issues and problems with authority. He was recently suspended from school for arguing with a teacher and was sent to live with his uncle, a probation officer. Frank admits to being verbally abusive and furious at the world, and was sent to SageWalk to learn how to deal with his anger.

-----

Derek is a destructive teenager who has been diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. He is failing school and is verbally abusive towards his mother. Derek's parents have sent him to SageWalk to learn discipline, respect and self-control.

----

    
Isaiah is an angry punk rocker who smokes, drinks and has an obsession with fire. Isaiah is verbally abusive towards his mother and blames her for his parents' divorce. He's defiant and bitter, and is constantly getting into fist fights at school, especially with the 'jocks.' Isaiah's mother sent him to SageWalk to learn how to deal with his anger issues.

-----

Yeah.. they're some real hell-raisers, eh?  :wave: