ABC Brat Camp

[Anonymous]

It also sounds to me like ALL of their problems stem from family issues. FAMILY ISSUES!!! How is isolating your kid in the wilderness going to help when they come back? Other than being afraid of you... OH YES.. that's the entire point of programs. I sometimes forget. Silly me.  :roll:

[Anonymous]

Do these parents know that children have actually died in a wilderness therapy program because they were deprived of WATER? (Summit Quest)

http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/Remembe ... utton.html

Or died after falling into a deep crevice while on an under-supervised hike in an area no longer considered safe and/or appropriate for wilderness therapy? (Red Rock Ranch Academy)

Or killed while sleeping in their tent after a tree branch covered with snow gave way fell on them? (Catherine Freer)

Wilderness Therapy is NOT foolproof.  There are inherent risks which can not and must not be overlooked and/or ignored.

That's the bottom line.  Caveat Emptor.

Barbe
TAUSA

[Nihilanthic]

-----


Lexie used to be a good girl who rode horses and excelled in school, but when she was 11, Lexie was molested by someone she trusted. She has since suffered from depression, become verbally abusive toward her parents, given up horseback riding and started failing in school. Lexie's parents sent her to SageWalk hoping she'll learn to deal with the secret that still haunts her.

-----


Frank has anger management issues and problems with authority. He was recently suspended from school for arguing with a teacher and was sent to live with his uncle, a probation officer. Frank admits to being verbally abusive and furious at the world, and was sent to SageWalk to learn how to deal with his anger.

-----

Derek is a destructive teenager who has been diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. He is failing school and is verbally abusive towards his mother. Derek's parents have sent him to SageWalk to learn discipline, respect and self-control.

How the fuck is marching in the desert and eating burnt oatmeal going to fix or address any of this?

Jesus Christ people are morons if they think this is going to do anything except make them tow the line so they dont go back, or just get teh fuck away from their parents - if they're not referred to a lockin program.

The three of them have nothing wrong with them at all, and their parents have a LOT wrong with them for doing this to their kids. But oh well, theyre gonna get pats on the back and tons of money for letting their kids be humiliated, marched through a desert and given bullshit 'therapy' around campfires while eating burnt oatmeal.

 :roll:

Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die
-- Malachy McCourt

[webcrawler]

All in the name of entertainment while fat assed Americans are parked on the couch eating junk and laughing hysterically at the public degradation of the kids.

To humiliate their children on national television to entertain viewers is sickening to say the least.

[Anonymous]

Actually, I believe they are hell raisers. They're out of control. If you can't see that then I think you're not being realistic. I do believe that many kids can receive help in other ways. Doc's, other programs, therepy, etc. However, when your kid threatens to hit you on numerous occasions, stays out all night whenever they want, and brags about getting fuc*** up, then these are serious problems. You can't believe that untreated they'll all be dead or in jail within 5 years. Even if the camp didn't help them in the long run with they're problems, what they're getting is the least punishment for what they've done to those that love them. That's what they get. If someone wouldn't kick the sh#t out of them, then let them hike. There should be consequences for their actions shouldn't there be?

[OverLordd]

Anon, if thats out of control well then your view of out of control is a tame one. I throw parties, I argue with my parents, I have a obession with fire and I have issues with athority. Does that mean I have to go to camp? What about the good things? every one has issues, here are some good things.

I am also a Eagle Scout, I also graduated high school with highest honors, and I also am a member of the national honor socity. I would like to hear the good things these kids have done, because im sure there is alot of that!

[Anonymous]

I'm a different anon than the previous one.  

The point you raise is a valid one, Overlordd: when is a child's behavior extreme enough to warrant the extraordinary step of sending him or her to a specialized program? I go on record here and now as saying that I think sometimes, hopefully rarely, this is a necessary step.

You say that you argue with your parents: that's a little different than in the previous anon's post which refers to kids to repeatedly threaten to hit their parents.  

And I don't know your age, though if you are out of school I've got to assume you're of age.

If you were a minor, then if your parents could be called "good enough" that is, reasonably competent parents, they'd get to make the call about where you were sent, most likely after consulting with people they trusted-- which may include clergy, family, psychologists, etc. (If you're an adult and were threatening to hit your parents, well, I guess, regretfully, that's where police/lawyers get called into a family situation).

You're "obsessed" with fire? I have to ask: do you really mean "obsessed" or just very fascinated as I, for example, am fascinated with the ocean. Because if you're "obsessed" in  the sense of heading toward arson, well, I hope you get some kind of guidance, whatever your age.  

If my minor child was "obsessed" with fire )in the true sense of the word) I sure would seek out some kind of program to address this, however many "good things" were also included in his/her personality.

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-19 09:31:00, Anonymous wrote:

The point you raise is a valid one, Overlordd: when is a child's behavior extreme enough to warrant the extraordinary step of sending him or her to a specialized program? I go on record here and now as saying that I think sometimes, hopefully rarely, this is a necessary step.

I think it depends on how you define the term "specialized program". In the case of the troubled parent industry, you may as well ask when is an illness extreme enough to warrant a round of blood letting? Or trepanation?

If we're talking about confrontational TC or toughlove death marches, the answer is, obviously, never. No matter how serious the kids' behavior, this approach is not helpful. You may just as well shove the kid over a cliff and leave them to fend for themselves if you want to shoot for strength through adversity. All the trappings of newage therapy are only provided to help you, the parent, believe that what you're doing is somehow different from beating the shit out of the kid repeatedly yourself.
 

Never in the history of any nation has an education system been so on the point of disintegration and decay as the education system in this country...We know that education in this country is as bad as it can be.  We know that it is old-fashioned, irrelevant, and not meaningful.
--U.S. Senator Abraham A. Ribicoff, 1970

[Anonymous]

"I think it depends on how you define the term "specialized program". In the case of the troubled parent industry, you may as well ask when is an illness extreme enough to warrant a round of blood letting? Or trepanation?"

So said Antigen in the previous post.

Well, of course, we can all agree--- I think--that it depends on the program, and I personally believe that there are good and bad ones out there.

The problem is, in the minds of certain critics of therapeutic schools, the possibility of a helpful and good program can't even be conceptualized, it appears.  

Antigen, I see from your posts that you had a very traumatic experience yourself with incarceration in a program.  Please be open-minded enough to realize that this is your experience in a particular setting.  Other places and other people's stories can be and I believe, are very very different.

As a parent, I understand your concern that the power of even the most caring staff in a remote or lock-up situation is great and can be misused.  As a critical thinker---after reading your posts I have the impression of someone who is so wounded that it may just be too much to expect an impartial evaluation of any program that in any way resembles her own unhappy experience.

How much, I wonder of what we see at this site has to do with people virtaully blinded by grief or anger over a personal tragic experience or outcome?  

I think that this site does provide valuable information and leads to parents.  But because of the particular life stories of many of the posters I think that just about everything presented here needs to be checked and rechecked elsewhere  for distortions and (perhaps understandable given posters' backgrounds) misrepresentations.

This site is useful I think but cannot be considered a complete or always reliable story in choosing a therapeutic program

[obsidian student]

I was a student at obsidian trails from October of 1999 until March of 2000.  I had some problems when I was a teenager; I believe obsidian trails saved my life.  I read about the death of Eddie Lee and was in school when the two students ran away and robbed an old couple of their car.  However I believe the people who owned and operated Obsidian trails truly want to help children with there problems and I can tell you when I was out there in the beginning I would have said anything to get out of there so although I hear the horror stories of some how badly the children at obsidian trails were treated, I can say with first hand knowledge that It wasn?t that bad.  I am currently in the police academy in New York and hope that one day I will be able to help children the way that the employees of Obsidian Trails helped me.

[Nihilanthic]

On 2005-07-19 08:46:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Actually, I believe they are hell raisers. They're out of control. If you can't see that then I think you're not being realistic. I do believe that many kids can receive help in other ways. Doc's, other programs, therepy, etc. However, when your kid threatens to hit you on numerous occasions, stays out all night whenever they want, and brags about getting fuc*** up, then these are serious problems. You can't believe that untreated they'll all be dead or in jail within 5 years. Even if the camp didn't help them in the long run with they're problems, what they're getting is the least punishment for what they've done to those that love them. That's what they get. If someone wouldn't kick the sh#t out of them, then let them hike. There should be consequences for their actions shouldn't there be?"

Lexie used to be a good girl who rode horses and excelled in school, but when she was 11, Lexie was molested by someone she trusted. She has since suffered from depression, become verbally abusive toward her parents, given up horseback riding and started failing in school. Lexie's parents sent her to SageWalk hoping she'll learn to deal with the secret that still haunts her.

Am I the only one who thinks youre a fucking moron here? BTW, punishment itself is pointless. It doesnt fix any problems if they actually have any, and causes more resentment than it discourages further behavior problems.

But hey, if you wanna be trapped in the dark ages and put punishment before therapy and call an abused child a 'hellraiser', whatever, youre free to be a moron in the US of A!

P.S. THEYRE BEING TEENAGERS YOU FLIPPIN IDIOT. Before all this shit started up in the 1970s, parents had to learn to DEAL WITH IT. Why cant you? Theyre going to act the way theyre going to act. Punishment doesnt do anything but make them resent you. And how the fuck do you know they'll be "Dead or in jail in 5 years", Nostradumbass?

The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us, and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic.
--Charles Robert Darwin, English naturalist

[Anonymous]

No, you are not the only one who thinks this way Niles. This is the root of the problem, and why the industry exists in the first place. Too many parents think their kid is 'broken' and needs to be fixed.

[Anonymous]

AND are ignorant/suckered enough into thinking somehow camping [wilderness programs] or being locked up in private jail [wwasp, provo] will somehow help. It is so insane, it's hard to imagine it goes on everyday all day long. This is a daily nightmare for thousands of teens unfortunately.  :cry:  :sad:

[Anonymous]

"Am I the only one who thinks youre a fucking moron here?" says Nihilanthic.

I am not the same anon to which this mental giant is directing his analysis--- but sadly, I imagine that there are other posters who probably agree with him in sayinf that this poster is "a fucking moron".

I don't.

In fact, I don't think that the anon's interpretation is off base at all, although I don't know the merits of the particular program featured on the television program.

But to argue that it's just being a teenager to threaten your parents, to disrespect your own body by random sexual encounters, to disappear overnight as a minor, well, no, maybe that is Nililanthic's idea of a normal adolescence but it is not mine.

I am a whole lot more comfortable thinking that the average parent who faces this kind of self-destructive behavior will be able to decide whether or not the child involved needs to be in a setting away from home than I am in thinking that a poster like Nihilanthic can assure the family of the right approach.

Especially after hearing his interpretation of what it means to be a normal adolescent.

[Anonymous]

You are wrong. If you had been through it, you'd know. Obviously you haven't been. You are speaking in theory. I am speaking from my own experience. You are not convincing anyone here, maybe you are trying to convince yourself? Do you have a child in a program?