Author Topic: Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-  (Read 4438 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« on: April 26, 2005, 11:29:00 AM »
The following is an excerpt of a letter from PENNY WALKER, KHK EXECUTIVE
 DIRECTOR, to the Honorable Rob J. Portman, Representative in Congress on
 4-30-2001,
 
 "RE: Childrens Health Act of 2000 (H.R. 4365)
 
 Dear Rob:
 
 As a professional serving chemically dependent adolescents, I am concerned
 that the unintended consequences of H.R. 4365 and the resulting HCFA Rule is
 that treatment will be denied children most in need, many of whom will end up in
 the justice system.
 
 As you know, Kids Helping Kids (KHK) provides Level II treatment to
 adolescents who are behaviorally out-of-control because of their drug use. This
 legislation eliminates a significant tool in behavior management.
      KHK has treated almost 1100 kids over the last twenty years, almost all
 admitted against their will by their parents. The old idea that people must
 want help before it is useful is false. The agency has been contracting for
 independent outcome studies since 1987. Those studies consistently find
 extraordinary outcomes from our graduates, many of whom at one time or another in the
 course of their treatment had their behavior shaped by the use of time-out in a
 locked room. This time-out is used when less restrictive interventions have
 failed, and is under the watchful eye of a staff member over a surveillance
 camera.
 Joanie is an example of a KHK client. She was 14 years old when she entered
 treatment. Shortly before admission, she had taken her parent's car in an
 attempt to run away from home. She wrecked it in another state and was charged with
 driving under the influence. Before this incident, she often had emotional
 explosions, frequently sneaked out of her home, was sexually promiscuous and had
 stolen money from her parents. Joanie began using drugs at the age of 11 and
 by 14 was regularly using marijuana and alcohol. She had also used LSD, opium,
 cocaine, crystal meth, ecstasy, prescriptions pills, and is one of the few
 children in KHK who has injected heroin."
 
 to be continued....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline tommyfromhyde1

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2005, 11:54:00 AM »
What did the act prohibit that she was objecting
to?

In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn?t speak up because I wasn?t a trade unionist. Then they came for Catholics, and I didn?t speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
--Protestant minister Martin Neimoller

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline 4peace

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2005, 01:01:00 PM »
I wonder how KHK knows *for sure* that all the children placed there are in fact, drug users.  I know that at Casa by the Sea, they describe and consider lots of kids druggies, yet NONE of those kids were EVER given drug tests upon admission to Casa.  Nor were they given drug screens WHILE INCARCERATED at Casa.  
Hmmm.....maybe KHK runs the same way.
Big talk, nothing to back it up with.  Oh, wait, they can back it up with their verbal BS, like all the other program 'schools'.
And I wonder if Penny Walker would submit to being held in KHK's specific locked room for a time out, under the *exact same conditions* as the kids being held there are.  
Somehow, I doubt it.  And let me guess, it would be under the guise of *she's not a druggie*, right?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2005, 02:20:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-26 08:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

The agency has been contracting for
independent outcome studies since 1987.


Agency? What agency and where are those studies? Have they been peer reviewed? By whom? Where there control groups? What's the dish?

Psychedelics often produce psychotic and even violent behavior in those who have never used them.
--Timothy Leary

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Offline cherish wisdom

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2005, 05:11:00 PM »
Lock out rooms are more like punishment cells.  If the room was humane - with a bed, blanket, pillow, books to read, clean - then I could see an out-of-control child being in time-out - but not for extended periods of time. This only causes further mental derailment.  [ This Message was edited by: cherish wisdom on 2005-04-26 14:13 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
If you lack wisdom ask of God and it shall be given to you.\"

Offline Anonymous

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2005, 12:12:00 PM »
More from Penny Walker's letter to The Honorable Rob J. Portman 4-30-
 2001 regarding H.R.4365:
 
 "Joanie has had two episodes of seclusion: one day shortly after
 being admitted to treatment for being non-compliance, and another
 period of time two months later when she went to time-out three times
 within four days for throwing food at another client and swearing at
 the staff. That was almost a month ago and Joanie is now progressing
 in treatment, nearing the end of Phase 1. She is expected to be
 stepped down a level and returned home within two weeks.
 
 Time-out withdraws reinforcement from the individual who is acting
 out and has been effective with Joanie. With this population, face-to-
 face contact during the time-out, another HCFA rule requirement,
 would be counterproductive because of its reinforcement quality. If
 allowed to use seclusion only if a client is in imminent threat of
 hurting him or herself or others, this agency would be forced to
 terminate children like Joanie who are disruptive to the group
 process and do not respond to less restrictive interventions. Of
 course, kids who would rather be out with their drug using peers
 would quickly learn how to get kicked out of treatment. Most of these
 peers would end up in juvenile detention facilities being punished
 rather than receiving treatment.
 
 The expectation is that the final HCFA rule will also require all
 seclusion and restraint be ordered by a board-certified psychiatrist
 or physician with specialized training and experience in the
 diagnosis and treatment of mental diseases. Reimbursement for
 behavioral medicine has been managed downward so much so that in the
 last several years in the Cincinatti area alone four programs have
 closed. The cost of having a physician (or even an R.N. on the staff
 24/7 will be prohibitive. Many agencies will choose not to treat the
 non-compliant client rather than absorb that cost.
 
 I believe that many of the provisions for the bill are good. All
 agencies should have a competent, trained staff which makes continous
 efforts to reduce the use of restraint and seclusion. This training
 should be readily available and inexpensive, (possibly subsidized by
 the state) However, some of these kids need to be protected from
 themselves in an environment that is safe and conducive to growth.
 
 I urge you to weigh in on this issue. It is my hope that HCFA suspend
 the implementation of the rule, which is to take effect May 23, and
 develop a process that includes the participation of all stakeholders
 in creating appropriate requirements.
 
 The licensing agencies of the individual facilities should be given
 more flexibility than the HCFA Rule allows to make determinations of
 appropriate use of restraint and seclusion.
 
 Thank you for your consideration,
 
 Sincerely,
 
 Penny Walker, M.S., CCDC III-E
 
 cc: Michele Frilling- Ohio Department of Alcohol & Drug Addiction
 Studies
 Penny Wyman- The Ohio Association of Child Caring Agencies
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline linchpin

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2005, 04:12:00 PM »
"  She was 14 years old when she entered
treatment. Shortly before admission, she had taken her parent's car in an
attempt to run away from home. She wrecked it in another state and was charged with
driving under the influence. Before this incident, she often had emotional
explosions, frequently sneaked out of her home, was sexually promiscuous and had
stolen money from her parents. Joanie began using drugs at the age of 11 and
by 14 was regularly using marijuana and alcohol. She had also used LSD, opium,
cocaine, crystal meth, ecstasy, prescriptions pills, and is one of the few
children in KHK who has injected heroin."



Bullshit! Sounds like stories made up in group to get promoted..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2005, 04:29:00 PM »
I cant believe they're saying its okay to use 'seclusion' as reinforcement.  :eek:

Its torture to anyone, but what about claustrophobe kids? Whats next, theyre going to give us medical jargon excusing more direct physical torture or bieng strapped down to a bed or a fucking rack?

What is this new loyalty? It is, above all, conformity. It is the uncritical and unquestioning acceptance of America as it is. It rejects inquiry into the race question or socialized medicine or public housing, regards as heinous any challenge to what is called the system of private enterprise, identifying that system with Americanism. It abandons evolution, repudiates the once popular concept of progress, and regards America as a finished product, perfect and complete. The concept of loyalty as conformity is a false one. It is narrow and restrictive, denies freedom of thought and conscience... What do men know of loyalty who make a mockery of the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights?
http://www.harvardsquarelibrary.org/unitarians/commager.html' target='_new'>Henry Steele Commager, 1947

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."

Offline The Motivator

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2005, 11:11:00 PM »
Sounds like you've never been sent to the Intake room for punishment.......Remember these are Druggies that are "OUT OF CONTROL ON DRUGS" we are talking about here and most of them are 14. I've been there and lived to tell about it.They convinced our parents that we were"OUT OF CONTROL"
NOW GO TO YOUR ROOM!!
RIGHT NOW!! OR I"M SENDING YOU TO THAT RONALD MCDONALD REHAB WHERE SECLUSION IS THE NORM
:smokin:
OK Group it's the-time-to-tell-us-your-twisted-sexual experience-so-we-can-use-it-against-you-RAP....MOTIVATE or be blown away.
 :grin:
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quot;Let\'s have a song\"

Offline Antigen

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2005, 12:55:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-06-10 20:11:00, The Motivator wrote:

They didn't have cameras in the In-Take rooms (HEBRON,KY Summer 1983) or Air Conditioning for that matter.

In `80, when I was on phones on 4th or 3rd phase, I figured as much. But I couldn't be sure, so I didn't dare call my sister or tell the pulls how happy I was that they got out. That sucked! Knowing that they probably didn't have it bugged, but the stakes were too high to risk it!

Quote
I heard that One kid (before my induction) climbed up through the drop ceiling in the IT room and made it about half way across the group room before he fell through the ceiling panels when the rails gave way.    "


That was probably Reagan Fields. He was in Sarastoa w/ me. He was a legend.; certainly my hero. He did just that on his intake. I was so in love w. him I didn't dare try to find him till I lost the pallor and the excess weight. By then, he was dead.

Truth resides in every human heart, and one has to search for it there, and to be guided by truth as one sees it. But no one has a right to coerce others to act according to his own view of truth.
                                     
--Mohandas K. Gandhi

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Antigen

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2005, 01:16:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-04-27 13:12:00, linchpin wrote:

Joanie began using drugs at the age of 11 and
by 14 was regularly using marijuana and alcohol. She had also used LSD, opium,
cocaine, crystal meth, ecstasy, prescriptions pills, and is one of the few
children in KHK who has injected heroin."


At age 11, she probably stole one of mom's cigarettes or a sip off of dad's beer. By 2 weeks after intake, at age 14, the term 'regularly' had been redifined to mean 'more than once'. What, no THC? But two weeks in Straight, Sarasota, we had learned that THC was a componant of pot and, if we were to be honest, had to be listed seperatly from pot. :silly:  Meth? Ecstacy? Prescriptions? (Do we count those prescribed to us? The codine syrup prescribed for asthma? The miltownn sampled and rejected from mom's stash)? Most of us didn't have a clue)

The rest? Mostly made up to please the angry mob.

You succeeded, parents! In seperating your kids from any meaninful, useful contact w/ the world they now have to deal with. You can prentend that world doeesn't exist and let them fend for themselves. Congrate yourselves. No one else will.

Cops; you wake `em up you gotta dance with `em. They lead.
-- Jack McNulty

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline BuzzKill

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2005, 10:45:00 AM »
//That was probably Reagan Fields. He was in Sarastoa w/ me. He was a legend.; certainly my hero. He did just that on his intake. I was so in love w. him I didn't dare try to find him till I lost the pallor and the excess weight. By then, he was dead.//


What happened?
Maybe you could write up his story - as you know it.
Maybe we could get it published in the editoral section of a newspaper or two.

Does anybody out there know what Penny Walker's connection to Straight inc might have been?
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Offline bandit1978

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2005, 11:43:00 PM »
"...LSD, opium, cocaine, crystal meth...prescription pills...heroin"

What??  Where the hell would one even find opium in the States?...if anyone knows, holla back!

And I thought I was well-rounded...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
egan Flynn
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Survivor- Provo Canyon School

Offline bandit1978

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2005, 05:34:00 AM »
I work in an acute-care hospital.  Only licensed staff are allowed to apply restraints (RNs or MDs).  Actually, neither one can do so without the other's documentation that restraints are necessary.  

I remember being at Provo Canyon School, and seeing these unlicensed buffoons "take down" kids all the time (sometimes for no other reason than the kid making some smart comment).  It invoked fear in all of us.  

Now I realize that I should not have had to live in fear of these people.  They are uneducated, unlicensed, unqualified; and many of them are quite sadistic and sick.  

No reputable facility would allow such people to make the decision to use any restraints (physical or chemical).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
egan Flynn
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Offline Nihilanthic

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Penny Walker of Kids Helping Kids on the usefulness of time-
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2005, 02:35:00 PM »
Most programs are still coy about the (obvious) fact that takedowns and restraint are used as a threat and as corporal punishment (aka torture) for the captives they have.

Anyone who knows jack squat about psychology (or has been through it) knows simply being restrained for any period of time in and of itself is unsettling and can pychologically fuck someone up. Especially a kid, especially a teenager, especially someone whose unstable and needs help, or someone trapped in some godforsaken program. Throw in positional aspyhxiation to the terror they already feel from being totally helpless and the fact that some hateful person is doing it tio them, and the pain that a lot of those holds have, and its hell for them. How is that going to make them calm down? It scares them to death, they give up from fear!

And another thing - I know more than most people about 'takedowns' and 'holds' - Ive actually DONE the martial arts most of them are half-assed imitations of. Heard of Judo or Juujutsu? Yeah, thats where you learn to use it against someone else who is resisting and actually knows how to not only fight back and get away but do it TO you back! Same for how to mantain a dominant position on top, or get control from the bottom (a guard position) or get them off, how to get up or keep them down, etc. Most of these holds are frankly RIDICULOUS that they use and potentialy extremely damaging, but none of the twits doing them have any idea what it fels like becuase they havent been on the receiving end of them!

SAFE restraints have the victim of them supine, NOT prone, without any pressure to their torso, abdomen, or neck, and without their arms crossed infront of their body at all - over their chest or neck. Theyre also done without pressure on their joints or for a long period. Hours isnt restraint, its bondage with your hands and its not beneficial in the least. Oh, and using it as a punishment or threat isnt restraint, its torture.

*sigh* too bad I cant invite some of these jerks over to a open-mat day to some Juujutsu school and tell everyone ahead of time what they are and what they do, that would be a riot to see.

O senseless man, who cannot possibly make a worm and yet will make Gods by the dozen!
--Michel Eyqyem de Montaigne, French essayist

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
DannyB on the internet:I CALLED A LAWYER TODAY TO SEE IF I COULD SUE YOUR ASSES FOR DOING THIS BUT THAT WAS NOT POSSIBLE.

CCMGirl on program restraints: "DON\'T TAZ ME BRO!!!!!"

TheWho on program survivors: "From where I sit I see all the anit-program[sic] people doing all the complaining and crying."