Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Unconditional Growth--Cindy and John Perloff
cleveland:
Wow, I wonder who's voice to hear in these posts? I was at the Seed from '79 to '86, so it's likely I know it. Out of curiosity, I'd love to know, but anyway, I'd like to respond to your post.
1. Anyone who sells spirituality for money, and anyone who buys it, need to be extra attentive. The danger is obvious.
2. I think it's OK to be angry at (with) the Seed, and OK to love it too - at least parts of it. The danger is to choose one position that obliterates the truth. For many of us, who were at the Seed at least nominally on our own volition, there were percieved benefits that kept us there, as well as the fear of loss that reinforced it.
3. My post-Seed experience has been one where I am skeptical of gurus, dogma and 'us and them' thinking. I prefer to find my spirituality from friends, and keep it loose and free. Much of what I have learned has been offered for nothing, with no program...I have also paid for workshops, donated money, and attended services, which I am careful to monitor...
4. When you enter into a religious experience, you are putting yourself into a vulnerable position, a position of trust, and this is easily exploited by charlatans.
5. Finally, thanks for being a part of this forum. I would love to hear from John or Cindy too, but I sent an email which was never answered, so I can only guess that they are not interested in communicating with me, all professions of love, made at the Seed and now after, to the contrary!
Anonymous:
From James Baldwin?s Another Country: ?Perhaps such secrets, the secrets of everyone, were only expressed when the person laboriously dragged them into the light of the world, imposed them on the world, and made them a part of the world?s experience. Without this effort, the secret place was merely a dungeon in which the person perished; without this effort, indeed, the entire world would be an uninhabitable darkness; and she saw, with a dreadful reluctance, why this effort was so rare. ? [People were] afraid, afraid of things dark, strange, dangerous, difficult, and deep.?
I find that the more I delve my past, including my experience with The Seed, the more questions are raised, and I find these questions, this complexity, this ambiguity, affirming, in and of itself. What I found most oppressive about The Seed was the simplicity, its insistence upon a single, dominant narrative to the exclusion of all others. Coming from a family of silence and suppression, I am grateful to see people here speaking, delving, searching and facing the range of emotions that accompany this search--rage, despair, frustration, confusion, laughter, forgiveness. I don't think any of this is a "negative expenditure of energy," but rather, our life's work, the fuel for art, social and political reform, the evolution of the self and our connection with others. All I'm saying is keep on keepin' on--keep speaking, reading, thinking, searching, asking questions even when there are no simple answers.
Anonymous:
Anon wrote: "I find that the more I delve my past ? "
I recall reading about a Zen Buddhist meditation involving a master who would whack the meditating monk on the back just at the right moment to aid achievement of a transcendental experience. This experience and the post noted above has been a bit like that for me only inverted. Lots of sticks and a very well timed meditation. I would share more of the details but hope the feeling comes through. Thanks to all who enagaged me here. Especially you Stripe. I don?t think anybody could have pissed me off quite so effectively and completely right in the midst of my most sincere attempts to be completely spiritual!
Love, Peace, and Light
The long-winded, flowery-verbiaged, (uncharacteristically-exhuberant) anon. :em:
P.S. Frank Zappa is one of the past century?s premiere musical luminaries though I personally have never considered integrating his work into my core philosophy.
P.P.S. To anyone who thinks they might know me and have concern. No, I have not started taking drugs again.
GregFL:
anon #1, whoever you are, I want you to know I can sincerely tell you are thinking about what happened to you and have an open mind. I want to thank you for coming here and if you feel like sharing who you are to me privately, you can email me at rocky93@tampabay.rr.com or post a private note to me (button at the left..private messages). I will keep it confidential unless you tell me otherwise.
I look forward to your continued participation and would also like to suggest to you any other former seed participants you are in touch with, please invite them here to read and post.
To anon # 2 here with the brilliant observations about newage (my friend Wes Fager says you pronounce that just like sewage... :grin:) principals and the complete idiocy of spirituality at a price...thank you also for coming here. I believe you may be a new poster, and if you are, please register and participate. Your comments about your experience at the seed in the second post were relayed in a deeply intellectual way and we would love to have you stick around.
To both of you, Neither has told us a seed story! Thank about something that happened or seemed important at the time you were there and share it with us.
Thanks in advance.
Anonymous:
(anon#1 here) Thanks for the invitation GregFL but I will respectfully decline. This has with all honesty been a valuable, though sometimes painful, experience for me. I really do hope that the value was shared ( the pain is optional ).
My ?recovery? was probably way too lengthy (though possibly exactly right) and I really don?t want to engage in a lengthy ?recovery from recovery?. No judgment whatsoever here on anyone else?s needs or preferences. Sincere best wishes to all.
P.S. Wouldn?t want to leave on too harmonious a note. I read anon#2?s post as an affirmation rather than condemnation of new age philosophy. Guess it all depends on what you think new age is or what part of it you look at and where you are coming from.
?Not-knowing is true knowledge
Presuming to know is a disease.
First realize that you are sick;
Then you can move toward health.
The Master is her own physician.
She has healed herself of all knowing.
Thus she is truly whole?
Tao Te Ching (Translation by Stephan Mitchell)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 5?v=glance
(sorry I?m kind of a computer dork and don?t know how to make the link look pretty. I hold no finiancial interest in amazon)
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