Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Unconditional Growth--Cindy and John Perloff
GregFL:
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"anon wrote:I would further suggest that one chooses to experience the world as a victim, a prisoner of all prior insults experienced in one?s life, or, one experiences life as being in control of one?s own life and destiny. The prisoner lashes out in an effort to punish his or her perceived jailers or tormenters. The individual with real personal power simply leaves the prison."
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This is a great point and one I have made myself repeatedly (in another, less newagey way).
However, there is one thing you fail to understand Anon. The first step to releasing yourself from the prison of cults, gurus and other mind sapping bullshit sometimes is to get good and angry. Feel it..understand what happened to you. Only then can some move to step two..compartmentalizing the experience and putting it in their past, forgiving (not forgetting!) the tresspassers, finding understanding in the whole experience, and moving on.
Don't be condenscending to those still in the first steps of understanding what happened to them. And alsounderstand that we, and especially I, appreciate you coming here and posting. Your post, after reading it twice, I believe has some wonderfull points and interesting perspectives.
Thanks, and please register, pick a username and participate often. You see, contrary to how you stereotyped and prejudged us, this board is for all points of view relating to the seed. Yours is just as solicited and valued.
So anon, thanks in advance and as I ask all new particpants here, please think of something that happened at the seed that sticks out in your mind, and tell us a seed story!
GregFL:
--- Quote ---On 2005-04-10 12:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Although I have no problem with a few harmless new age principles, it becomes more and more apparent (to me) that many of these groups mainly cater to the Anglo minority, wealthy enough to attend endless workshops and seminars, listening to each other promote a "privileged discourse." After all, in the end, the new agers are all saying the same thing: "We are all one and God is within us." I don't know about you, but I certainly do not need to reach for my back pocket to understand that, moreover, have it gift wrapped in intellectual jargon. Believing these core principles is one thing, practicing them in the presence of others can get expensive, at times. For the most part, new age trends, sects, groups, and gurus are available to those willing to pay and participate. For the everyday, down-and-out American citizen, who might not have more than an 8th grade education (12th if lucky), the privileged intellectual discourse promoted by new agers is unattainable since it is the academic language of colleges and universities with a mix of spirituality a la carte. Some of us just need someone to initially hold our hand to get to the lunch line, not explain to us how to cross the street in such lofty language, while giving us the false hope that someday we will understand the words and, finally, when the words take on a deeper meaning, we will know how to get to the lunch line by ourselves. "
--- End quote ---
I have one thing to say....
Brilliant post!
::cheers::
Stripe:
One final post then I'll leave Mr. Perloff to lick his wounds.
Unconditional Growth is a for profit corporation. It seeks donations to pay for scholarships and, among other things, rents. Ooops, they forgot. Unconditinoal Growth operates from the same space and address as Perloff's law firm, where he is not actively practicing law. He's such a putz he can't even get a new email address. How about Unconditionalgrowth@yahoo.com I hear Yahoo lets you have email for free..
What does it feel like to be a lizard whose tail just got ripped off?? Ouch.
Anonymous:
GregFL wrote: Tell me, just where do I attack and denigrade people as you suggest? Point me to the error of my ways..otherwise..admit you are just taking a contrary opinion of someone because he/she doesn't agree with you.
I do believe, especially with regard to you, my choice of words was perhaps too strong. Would it be unfair to say that if your name appeared as the topic here, you read the first several posts on this thread, and you were going to enter in an agreement with the participants that required a ?fair and objective? appreciation of your interests, you might do so with some concern? I certainly admit that I have a different opinion but do not take it with the purpose of disagreeing. It is my opinion based on my experience, nothing more nothing less.
GregFL wrote: ?However, there is one thing you fail to understand Anon. The first step to releasing yourself from the prison of cults, gurus and other mind sapping bullshit sometimes is to get good and angry. Feel it..understand what happened to you. Only then can some move to step two..compartmentalizing the experience and putting it in their past, forgiving (not forgetting!) the tresspassers, finding understanding in the whole experience, and moving on.
Don't be condenscending to those still in the first steps of understanding what happened to them.?
I believe I do understand this well. I have been ?good and angry?. I certainly would not fault anyone for anger about this or anything else. It is an absolutely human response and anyone who doesn?t get angry on a fairly regular basis probably isn?t paying very good attention. I have experienced the effects of trying to suppress anger. Your description of ?step two? is very much what I was trying to say in my own long winded fashion. (Although I am not sure what you mean by ?compartmentalizing?) Just trying to say that I have found protracted experience of anger to be damaging and unnecessary.
I think that one of the differences in our experience of this is that my involvement was purely voluntary. I believe this to be the case for most individuals involved with the program for at least the last 20 or more years. I could have walked away at any point, so I have never felt it honest to pin all of the blame on ?them? even when I was feeling really angry. I stayed for a combination of reasons. I would say some probably good and some not so good. I stayed because I felt sincere friendship with many people in ?the group?. (Most are not vacant-eyed zombies though I know this comes from a suspect source). I stayed because I felt ( and still feel) that I received some real benefit from my association with the Seed. I am aware that the benefits carried some cost. The fear that I would most likely cut ties completely with all of these people if I walked away (The seed giveth and the seed taketh away) was probably not so good a reason for staying.
I must also say that although some of the ?techniques? were probably abusive I do not believe that in all, or even in most cases, the intent was abusive. This does not excuse. I am also aware that as a voluntary participant I must accept responsibility for various actions I am not particularly proud of. I have attempted to make apologies where reasonable and appropriate. I have read posts on these pages from people I knew, had very high regard for, and felt were very badly treated (though again I am forced to say that the ?abusers? often sincerely believed that this was in the abused best interest). I am very happy to hear them express that they have normal happy lives. My sincerest wish is that they are able to forgive for no ones sake but their own. My apologie is that I didn?t speak up and say ?I don?t think this is right?
I realize not everyone?s experience was voluntary. Perhaps my assumption that after all of these years most who where forcefully or legally ?commited? would be up to your step two was not a good one.
I had no intent of being condescending on that point, or any other. (I do need to say this is not the first time I have been accused of being condescending without really being aware of intention to be so. Is there first degree condescention and second degree condescention? A lame attempt at humor. I will give this some thought)
One last thing. I have no problem with looking to other people, guru?s if you will, for input. I am without doubt shy of involving myself in any community which is in any way selective of its membership. I guess the acid test I use is that if I truly feel that I can say ?that makes no sense to me at all? about the most scared belief of a group, or ?This is what I think? and not come under attack then things are probably not too bad.
Anonymous:
Are you another JP? :question:
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