My Opinions

[Perrigaud]

As I've said before I am a survivor. Not just the program but life itself. I didn't agree with all that went all in the program. What I ended up doing was using it to my advantage. It's along the lines of "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." I understand how people can see it all as abuse. I however didn't view it that way because I was determined to learn. In any situation good or bad something is available to be taught.
An extreme situation
In Nazi Germany the surviving Jews talk about how they kept themselves free. That freedom was inner freedom. They had the worst of surroundings. Yet they were determined to survive. They could have easily given in and allowed themselves to be shot. There were those who did fight till the end (being murdered). They came out with a better appreciation for life then any of us will ever know. They kept their minds free.
I believe in inner freedom. I have been through a lot of things in my life. I have seen and experienced more than most of you will ever go through. I choose not to let it all defeat me. I have become stronger thanks to those horrific experience.
I believe that Jamaica should be closed. I'm glad that Casa was shut down. I don't know much about the others. Cross Creek? I thank Cross Creek. I have achieved what I have always been looking for with the help of Cross Creek.
True freedom comes within. Yes we didn't have tennis shoes. But we still had protection for our feet. It's not as if we were out in the cold bare foot. Not talking? At Cross Creek we were able to talk more than people think. Yes we were in trouble if we talked about drugs, sex, suicide and such. But my parents would have been upset if I talked about that at home. Seminars? Very emotionally upset to some people. Some are even scarred. I am not. I felt it releiving to talk about all that was on my chest. What do I have to hide from? Judgement? Please people will judge all the time. It wasn't scary to me and still isn't. In fact a lot of my emotional healing happened in the seminars. Yes there were some processes I didn't even agree on nor supported. I didn't go through with them. I told the facilitator why I didn't go through them. I wasn't reprimanded nor held back for it. Amazing I know. Being told what to do when to do it. We deal with that every day and by choice and not by choice. Some rules were rediculous yes, but was I going to bitch about it? No, life is filled with idiotic rules. Is it right that kids are abused? Not at all. That I do wish to eliminate as well.  
I thank Cross Creek for giving me different views on life. I AM angry at the people who victimized students. I feel for the victims and hope that a stop will be put to the negative aspects. A reformation is in order. But to be honest I don't think it will happen. I think that they'll just have to shut down completely to abstain from harming the teens.
I commend you all for your passion and drive for what you believe in. I have a great deal of respect for most people on this board even if they don't aggree with me.
All in all I believe that no matter what one goes through inner freedom can never be taken away. Being peaceful is such a wonderful feeling. I still have problems don't get me wrong. I still have unfair crap happening. I choose to deal with it head on. I will never give up on myself. No matter how hard life is. Good luck to you all. If you ever have any specific questions feel free to ask. No matter what it is I will answer with sheer honesty.

[Dolphin]

I would love to see Cross Creek go independent, but that's probably not going to happen due to the support of the seminars and other resources.  I am constantly amazed at the process and with my kid's therapist.  

The boy I talked with that graduated in 2001, in all honesty, I believe, said he never saw, heard or experienced abuse and had much the same tone as you do Perrigaud.  Taking what fit and letting the rest go.

How do you feel some of the kids were scarred by the seminars?  I just can't picture that one.  

I'm in the Keys to Success seminar series - I've done the communication and the addiction ones and am looking forward to others.  I know the adult ones are different from the kids, but with many of the same exercises and processes.  It was freeing for me and I was a pretty closed and sensitive person with definite views on certain things.  I let a lot of things go, but have revisited some of the concepts and used more than in the beginning.  

I've been dealing with way more than my kid my whole life, and having the seminars bring a lot of the stuff out into the open has been a good thing in my case.  There's a lot of support to keep working when I need it, or ask for it. (This isn't to say my kid doesn't need it as much as I do)

Gotta go - just wanted to say I love reading your posts -  :smile:

[Nihilanthic]

I'm going to try to keep this short but sweet, so I dont ruffle feathers.

For those that were helped, I am glad.

Tolerating idiotic rules is a important skill, but it doesnt mean they should be merely accepted or that they're beneficial.

Restricting communication about some subjects, or restricting communication TOTALLY has and can be used to make people feel controled, and helpless. Was it in your situation, Perrigaud? I dont know, I'm no expert. I wont make that determination.

Furthermore, why can't they talk about "drugs sex suicide and such"? Those might be why they WENT there? It seems like its the program trying to bury certain parts of life, TO ME. All WWASPS has to say about drugs sex and suicide (as far as I know from here and other websites) is 'dont do it'. For some people that might work, for people who arent like that, it probably wont. Et tu, Perrigaud? :wink:

And, finally, While these seminars might have been good for you two, for PLENTY of other people, its torture. Yet again, the only analogy I can think of is how different people react to being the submissive in a BDSM scene. Only those psychologically predisposed to enjoy it will enjoy it, and those psychologically predisposed to freak out and suffer would hate it. I'm sure there is also a middle-ground that would just be really bored. Some people feel SAFE when tied up! I'm a claustrophobe so I cant even tolerate elevators!

Thats basically all I gotta say for now, except my voicemail isnt working. Leave PM please.

say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile.
--Kurt Vonnegut, American author

[Deborah]

I appreciate your analogy Nihl.

[Anonymous]

Nihil, I don't know if you're analogy applies in this case. You're forgetting a big issue, and that is that WWASP/S's program is based on coercive persuasion. Through sleep deprivation, food depriovation, and intense psychological pressure, these people are made to believe that the process they have been through was not abusive, and that they have been "saved" by the program. Succumbing to this process has nothing to do with personal preference and predisposition. It has everything to do with coercive persuasion.

[Anonymous]

Sleep deprivation.  Damn right.  Having to go to bed by 10pm and up by 6 is really the most abusive part of any program.  Don't they know that teenagers need at least 12 hours of sleep a night? :wink:

[Anonymous]

Before a seminar, kids are often made to wake up at about 3 a.m. That's sleep deprivation. They get to these seminars deprived of sleep and food, which make them less able to resist the onslaught of LifeSpring bullshit.

[Perrigaud]

at Lifespring maybe. At WWASP we went to bed at 9:00PM not 10. Sleep deprivation. Come up with something real.
Of course you can talk about drugs, sex, and alcohol just not in a glorifying way. We are all addicts of some sort of way.
That's what I meant. Learning that clarity is something I got to work on.

[Perrigaud]

Restricting talking about certain subjects in a certain way is not that big of deal in my opinion. Feeling desperate and sad over that? Really? Why?

[Anonymous]

Perri,
You just criticized someone else?s opinion/experience:

?Come up with something real.?
?Feeling desperate and sad over that [not being able to talk]? Really? Why??

Precisely the type of comments that get you involved in arguments with others, in which you feel victimized or misunderstood, as a 100% program supporter.  So that wasn?t your experience, so you say.  You could have shared that without discounting someone else?s comment. Make sense?

And, please elaborate on this comment:
?We are all addicts of some sort of way.?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-03-20 12:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Perri,

You just criticized someone else?s opinion/experience:



?Come up with something real.?

?Feeling desperate and sad over that [not being able to talk]? Really? Why??



Precisely the type of comments that get you involved in arguments with others, in which you feel victimized or misunderstood, as a 100% program supporter.  So that wasn?t your experience, so you say.  You could have shared that without discounting someone else?s comment. Make sense?



And, please elaborate on this comment:

?We are all addicts of some sort of way.?

"

Uh...in this case, I deserved that.

One of the problems with being bipolar is the meds make you stable (if you're lucky), not "normal."

So if I'm symptomatic, sometimes other people notice before I do.  *Usually* it's just people real close to me, but oops.

My rant was pretty much your classic bipolar rage.  But since I'm lucky enough to have hypergraphia (compulsive writing is actually a good thing)--in this case I lost it in print.  Again, sorry.

Anyway, she had good reason to be grumpy with me.

Timoclea

[Perrigaud]

I don't claim to be a victim. I never said that. What I did say is that I do get misunderstood. It happens every day to everyone.

[Anonymous]

Personally Tim, I think your points were valid. They could've been delivered differently, but I hope you're not apologizing for what was valid.

[Perrigaud]

Anonymous,
  What points did you find valid and why?
P.S. Anonymous: interesting.[ This Message was edited by: Perrigaud on 2005-03-21 01:40 ]

[Anonymous]

On 2005-03-20 15:24:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Personally Tim, I think your points were valid. They could've been delivered differently, but I hope you're not apologizing for what was valid.



"

I apologized because she copied verbatim from a handbook and I read too much into it.

When the lack of added commentary could have been for any number of reasons, including not having the time right then to comment.  Or a large number of reasons many of which might not occur to me if I tried to list some.

In *general* taking the emotional content out and talking *generally* about victim blaming and kids from the programs being indoctrinated that what they're experiencing is not abuse, sure, there are points there.

But for Perri, for a section copied verbatim from program materials in response to a request, it was reading way too much into it.

Timoclea