Author Topic: infectious disease  (Read 6550 times)

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Offline misbehaver

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« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2002, 09:31:00 PM »
I was in the Cincinnati program from Feb. 1986 until Sept. 1986. If the archive is up, you can review my post "Live at Last" for clarity. I did roll thru Atlanta on my own "March to the Sea", but got caught in traffic on that 10 lane autobahn. Nothing like bourbon and bread pudding, except maybe nuoc mam cham over ramen with lemon grass tea. Jason

[ This Message was edited by: misbehaver on 2002-10-16 18:33 ]
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Offline kaydeejaded

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« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2002, 10:31:00 PM »
Me too Jason. I was also a rather "active" misb. and shudder to think about anything I may or may not have gotten into. In 89 I really was not thinking about hiv or hep c back then. I was just looking for some sort of release and going down fighting was as close as I could get. I was pretty ready to just die after being in that hell for 13 months. I knew a rowdy misbehavior in Boston named Jason. Dream on and One were some of the songs we used to rock out too and I would bet he would say he was from the abyss too funny for a sec I thought you might be him. :smile:

[ This Message was edited by: kaydeejaded on 2002-10-16 19:35 ]
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or those who understand, no explanation is necessary; for those who don\'t, none will do

Offline misbehaver

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« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2002, 11:48:00 PM »
Kaydee, although I never did Straitime in Boston, I've screamed One too many times. Geez, I gotta get rid of this horrible vision. I'm not dumping; but venting a hurt that prompted a rise of compassion that Straight precipitated. Here goes...



These two twin sisters (11 yrs. old) were forced into the program; the mother had been beaten and had her home set ablaze by the "daddy". The girls were a mess; one was closed off and the other was trying to play hardcore. Abuse was suspected. Anyway, one started to act out, they were tiny things, so the oldcomer bitches simply muscled them. They found strength in each other and began feeding off one another. Always eager to please, they fell into the arm carving crap and would model themselves to the male MBers. One day, the staff let them dig until their emaciated arms dripped blood. They were then placed out of eyeshot of each other and tube socks fitted on their arms. Duct tape was them used to bind the limbs as one. Helpless and hurting, they resorted to using a curled fist to bust lumps on their foreheads. This is one of the many visions that I may be awakened by. They were so weak and vulnerable; like small birds. After days of this they were pulled, this was too much for even the staff to witness. Maybe?



My point is that after those days, it was easy for me to be robotic. I couldn't concern myself with worrying about bloodborne contagion while the threat of imminent death looms. 50% H2O and 50% Cl (bleach) washes away all sins and souls after the fact. The problem is that every busted out kid that I hand a bag of M&Ms, I blink and see those girls. I just can't let it get to me...thanx

Jason

[ This Message was edited by: misbehaver on 2002-10-16 20:52 ]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2002, 12:18:00 AM »
James,

Did anyone in Straight know that you were gay/bi?  If so, what happened?

Hope you don't mind my asking.  For some reason I confessed to maybe being a lesbian in a rap.  A few days later an exec brought me into her office and got me to agree I didn;t really want to have gay sex with anyone.  I have wondered since about her intentions.  Was she trying to save me?  Would I have gotten kicked out of Straight if I had been more sure I was gay?

I am not sure the answer is important anyomore, I just wonder.
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Offline Tampa survivor

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« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2002, 12:42:00 AM »
Boy, if truley a ticket out, I woulda taken a "walk on the wild side" in a NY minute.  Hey, I am straight, but everybody has a price....
Bill
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Offline enough

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« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2002, 02:06:00 AM »
Please don't ever be sorry for asking questions. That was a part of the cult conditioning- never question anything, just conform.

During my intake I told them that I was gay/bi, I can't recall what label I used.I told them that I had been sexually active with my priest and a music teacher and other adults for three years.

Unfortunately  I also told them that I had sampled leftover drinks at my parents parties when I was 12, and so the false belief that I had been an addict from that point forward was instilled on day one.

The guys doing my intake asked me if I thought it was possible that those men were only sexually active with me because I had manipulated them in order to gain access to drugs or alcohol. I was immdiately taken by this viewpoint, to blame all of this confusion on a simplistic addiction theory was very comfortable, and meant that I might not be gay, and maybe I could go about life as a 'normal' guy. Of course it doesn't really work that way- The world is not black/white.

My parents were not informed of the sexual abuse until I told them about, couched in the terms of it being my fault, four months later during my first Talk.

I tried to deal with issues of my sexuality while in group, but most often I was confronted for doing so and told that I was 'not here for a sex problem, I was here for a drug problem'. Alicia was particularly fond of telling me to just 'put my sex issues on a shelf, and deal with them after you step'.

When I self-withdrew the first time, I dove headfirst into the gay community in Atlanta, eventually moving into an apt with five gay men. Though I was not active with any of them, I did go out and pick up one night stands etc.

When I came back to the group I cried and sobbed about how I felt dirty etc. because I had been using sex to get drugs, even though it was not true, it sold well to the group, and it meant that I would recieve the acceptance of the group, which was vital to my ego.

There were some people in group or on staff who said that it didn't matter if I was gay or not. There were others who said that gay sex was dirty and immoral and tried to convince me that it only happened because I was an addict.

I internalized homophobia, hated myself, blamed myself for being abused, and spent a long time self medicating because of my confusion. My sexual abusers went free without being brought to justice, partly because the program convinced my parents  that it should be left alone for my own good.

Sadly, as I have become 'awake', I realized that I did not use drugs for two and half years after my abuse started. While the program convinced me that addiction caused my sexual 'problems', the hard cold truth was that I had started self medicating because of the pain, shock, stress, trauma and embarrasment of being sexually active with these adult men and trying to keep it a secret as a teenager. So much for addiction being 'primary'.

This is perhaps the hardest issue for me to forgive about- the people who told me that I was to blame, that my alleged addiction was to blame for these adult men breaking the law and raping me.

I first smoked pot when I was 16 years old. I was first sexually molested when I was 13.
Between the time of that first abuse and my intake, I was sexually molested by four different adult men. I ran away from home three times, as far as California twice.

I was already deeply into a case of PTSD upon my intake, and I boasted and lied about drug use, in hopes that the program would accept me (I had read the brochure that said only the worst teen addicts would be admitted). In retrospect I know now that I was simply trying to escape the molestations, but I sure ran to the wrong place.

I think that many many kids in the program were PTSD upon arrival, from sexual abuse, physical abuse and other issues. I believe that many of us only self-medicated to kill this pain, that we were never 'addicts'. But, in a totalist environment, where doctrine rises above person, such issues are moot.

As I look back I believe that at least two foster homes asked that I be moved out of their homes because of my openness about my sexuality, they were concerned that I would rape their children, or 'turn them gay.

There were at least four other guys in Atlanta who openly discussed gay issues while I was in the program, and I had shallow relationships with two of them in the years after we left the group.

There were two guys who admitted to being sexually active with each other while on their phases, they were confronted, started over, and they both stood up and shared about how their addiction had driven them to this 'relapse'. I recall them being terrified of being 'terminated', as sexual activity was a termination offense. Hormones had nothing to do with it, and the torture of being in the group, that was irrelevant- this was about a twisted need to feel good- something that an ideology based in guilt and shame could not tolerate.

It was all so sick and perverse- addiction does not make people gay, indeed it is not even a disease. most of the scientific community has already accepted this, it is only a myth that is promulgated by the therapy/treatment industry.

 But the program was not really about addiction, that was just the "loss-leader' that drew people in. The program was about changing people into what the founders idealized as 'good' people, and that included rampant homophobia, hatred of modern music, disgust with non collared and T-shirts, long hair, facial hair, tattoos and most anything else that did not conform to their own lifestyle- a kind of upper crust, social climbing, politically active(republican), prejudicial, circle the wagons against social decay viewpoint.

The entire thing was so sick it still makes me puke to think of it. I deeply resent the executives, the so-called clinicians, who passed themselves off as experts on addiction because of their own brainwashing in the cult, who refused to notify the authorities of serious sexual crimes.

They allowed sociopathic sex offenders to go free, and I know for a fact that  the clergyman who sexually molested me went on to rape several other kids in the New Orleans area.

The music teacher was still molesting kids several years after I left the program, I went to visit him once and he tried to be sexual with me again- I refused, but could never bring myself to go to the authorities about it- I was still in deep conflict, and believing that it was my fault for being an addict.

I did not begin to escape my own internalized homophobia until I moved to California, SF to be precise, and submerged myself in a postive environment. I did not fully understand how the program had used and manipulated me, how they robbed me of justice until just the last two years, starting with the death of the clergyman who abused me.

Those bastards lied to & used us all, and they will eventually be exposed for the nazi's that they were. I guess I find it sickly ironic that they sit on the board of trustees for the Florida Holocaust Museum.

I guess they forgot that gay people were also victims of teh genocide of the third reich- where do you think the pink triangle came from- it was what my people had to wear as they were shuffled off to the ovens.

Isn't it odd that a Jewish couple would end up founding a program that blamed gayness on drug addiction, much the same way the nazi's blamed inferiority and feeble-mindedness on being Jewish.

But then I have always said that when the opressed become the opressors, the war crimes only become worse in the light of retribution.

Gays, addicts, people with tattoo's and long hair, those who dared to wear black teeshirts or perhaps choose to live their lives free of guilt and shame were always a threat to these totalists- and they did their best to 'ethnically cleanse' us from American culture.

They failed utterly. I hope that answers your question.
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Offline ladyjerrico

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« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2002, 10:09:00 AM »
I find nothing wrong with gay/bi people. There were many at my former job and a few at my current one, it doesn't make you less of a person, and I think those who tried to make you feel less were just wanting to soar their own ego.
I think you should do what you feel is right as a human being and in your heart to do so.
Don't ever let someone judge you for what you believe and who you are because it just causes depression and bad thoughts.
I found this out the hard way after my ex-husband left me, I wasn't "pretty" enough for him and I became a stronger person after he left.
I'm not prejudice and I accept those for who they are, if they have a problem with me, I tell them to stuff it! lol
Take care
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usan Minns

Offline misbehaver

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« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2002, 01:01:00 PM »
since the discussion has moved into the sex zone, memories overflow. Here's a goodie:



This humble, mealy dude stands up in guys rap one day and announced that he'd had sex with his sister. He honestly thought that "what's said in group, stays in group". HA! Not a chance. The jr. staff push monkey ran like a cheetah to the sr. staff office, while this poor idiot is looking at his guts on the floor. Group is silent; till someone suggests a song. Suddenly, exec staff rolls on scene and ushers this kid to intimate interrogation. Needless to say, his sister was shuffled into the program and not a happy camper. She fought hard. Eveyone knew the sad tale; and she knew we knew. Horrible situation. She was finally relinquished to mental treatment, where I saw her again. Hugely embarrassed by my presence (I knew), she started attacking the nurses and was subsequently given heavy meds. One day, I saw some fat little rat working his paws under her skirt; she was way out to lunch. I snatched his ass up and told him if he ever touched her again he'd suffer. Years later, I saw her again at a McDonalds drive-thru and the same devastated look appeared upon her face. I got really drunk that nite. Luv ya!

Jason

[ This Message was edited by: misbehaver on 2002-10-18 18:21 ]
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Offline kosmonaut

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« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2002, 02:40:00 PM »
Quote
On 2002-10-16 23:06:00, James wrote:



 But the program was not really about addiction, that was just the "loss-leader' that drew people in. The program was about changing people into what the founders idealized as 'good' people, and that included rampant homophobia, hatred of modern music, disgust with non collared and T-shirts, long hair, facial hair, tattoos and most anything else that did not conform to their own lifestyle- a kind of upper crust, social climbing, politically active(republican), prejudicial, circle the wagons against social decay viewpoint.



Absolutely, it's amazing how things fall into perspective in hindsight.

Hey James I remember you now.
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AR CRASH TURNS FROWN UPSIDE DOWN

Offline ladyjerrico

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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2002, 12:10:00 AM »
Misbehavior, well, having sex with your own family is different, I say "whatever floats your boat" but there are some who don't care. Myself, I don't have any brothers, only one older sister, and I would never in my life dream of doing something like that! EWW YUCK.. but thanks for sharing. Love ya, have a seat.. LOL.. only kidding
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usan Minns

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2002, 02:27:00 PM »
Funny cultspeak my lady, real funny.
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Offline kosmonaut

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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2002, 03:24:00 PM »
Quote
On 2002-10-18 11:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
Funny cultspeak my lady, real funny.

hey I enjoyed it! :grin:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2002, 06:43:00 PM »
That talk comes out of my mouth in this day and age as frequently as I sit around the house and motivate, sing zippity-fucking-doo dah in the shower, and restrain children on linoleum floors just for the sake of having the power to do so.  Maybe I read too much into things, but to say that mouthful of shit, even in jest, is too reminiscent of bad times.  I know the board is social in nature and it's funny to some but it was very fucking serious at one point.  It is equally serious that there has been yet another teen to die recently while in treatment.  I retract any belittling comment made to 'my lady', it's just depressing shit, that's all.  Sometimes I think there is more to be gained by taking a proactive step towards prevention of the continued abuse rather then revel in the memory of how mindwashed we were at one point and to joke around about it.  Maybe the comedy is therapeutic to some.  Personally speaking, it's a part of a past life that I don't want to repeat, not even verbally in jest.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2002, 06:46:00 PM »
As a matter of fact, I'd first fuck my sister before I would speak in that manner.
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Offline misbehaver

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« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2002, 10:01:00 PM »
I never meant to create hostility. It's just that I've never been able to talk about these horrors before. Maybe I still can't. Kinda reminds me of "A Few Good Men"... "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!"

Anonymous: Get off Lady J's back. If you can conjure up a statement like your last post, then maybe duct tape your mouth closed and go fuck yourself. Leave your sister alone. Jason
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