Author Topic: who is still sober #2 - the real question is not.......  (Read 2008 times)

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Offline kpickle39

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who is still sober #2 - the real question is not.......
« on: September 23, 2002, 04:33:00 PM »
who is sober; the real question is "does the ends justify the means" And I'm gonna take the first stab at that question. NO is the answer. Whether or not you got sober doesn't justify the child abuse that we all endured. And I also believe that if you are sober it has nothing to do w/straight and the "program" that they put us through. It has to do with that you don't drink or do drugs, and nothing more.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Tampa survivor

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who is still sober #2 - the real question is not.......
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2002, 05:33:00 PM »
According to straight supporters, fascist behavior is justified when:
A kid does not do exactly what his/her parents thought was right.  Drug addiction was a non-issue at Straight as truly addicted people MUST have medical intervention.  
So  children having sex, dabbling in drugs or having PSYCH issues were branded as druggies, destined to die without STRAIGHT.
The abuse was horrendous, and if a video of the program I was in could be seen, the adults would go to jail and the kids would all have settlements. OH, and SEMBLER would not be an ambsassedour. The program and I fought for 2 years, and as a result, I became determined to a fault, learned what freedom means and defend those who do not have it. The word fascist says it all.  Mussolinni made the trains run on time in Italy, but he ruined that great country in the process.  Newton and club may have saved a few lives, but at a cost of how many others?  Confrontational therapy???  Screaming at your fellow man??? Spitting on them????  Watching V.Miller himself slam a 14 yo GIRL to the ground???  
I ate p'nut butter for months at a major growth age.  Nutritional punishment???? THAT IS AGAINST THE LAW NOW AND was THEN too!!!!!
Yeah, the list could go on, but hopefully others wil weigh in with their thoughts on the fact that the end NEVER JUSTIFIES THE MEANS.
Bill H
12/80-12/82
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Bill H
St Pete & Atlanta, never surrendered!
12/80-12/82

Offline str8isabuse

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who is still sober #2 - the real question is not.......
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2002, 06:02:00 PM »
the ends never justify the means when the means are abuse and wrongful imprisonment.

  those who look back with gratitude at straight need to think again about what we were subjected to.  violence is never acceptable. if straight's methods were ok to some, why do so many of us recall the blood, spit, tears, foaming mouths, gasping breath, bruises, broken and dislocated bones, suicide attempts/body carving, etc.  what about the sexual assaults and rapes at host homes that went unreported?  what about the guy who had to clean toilets with a toothbrush while he was leashed like a dog, crawling around on his hands and knees?  how is this helpful?  how is this treatment?  for those with children, would you want your child treated someday like this?  

what about innocent until proven guilty?  we were held in straight (most of us) without evidence or a trial.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Antigen

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who is still sober #2 - the real question is not.......
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2002, 08:50:00 PM »
I think that people who feel gratitude to the Program and credit it with having helped them accept as fact the fiction that they were primally flawed individuals to begin with.

I do not buy that for a moment. We were all but a very few children. Some few were very, very young adults. Children and young adults make mistakes; do things for which they are later ashamed or regretful. That's why we don't allow them to vote, own real estate, drive cars, perform surgery or hold public office. Nearly always, we learn from early mistakes and grow up to be reasonably decent, competent human beings, even without undergoing brutal thought reform.

"But if it saved one life...." you often hear. It's doubtful if the Program ever saved any and pretty nearly irrefutable that it took more than a few.

Anyone still sober? Sure, some say they are. Many of those, (not all, just many that I've met) if you get to know them a little better, you find they're using prescribed psyche drugs. Don't get me wrong. That's fine with me. If it works for you then, by all means, stick with it. But it would be right decent of you if you would not condemn folks who use different drugs under their own authority.

And the vast majority among Program survivors report a couple of years (or more) of intense pain-killing, wild partying and other kinds of off the chain activity. Some attribute it to psychic self medication--to kill the pain. Others look at it as a self fulfiling prophesey--making their fabricated drug lists "real".

This is, of course, just my opinion. Inasmuch as no one can know the mind of another, I'll never be able to say for sure why anyone thinks what they do. But I was involved with the Program from the age of around 6 or 7 and my family is involved still. So I have a lot of clues to work with and a lot of incentive to have given this a lot of thought over the years.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline Anonymous

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who is still sober #2 - the real question is not.......
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2002, 09:46:00 PM »
It is never right

to do wrong

to do right
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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who is still sober #2 - the real question is not.......
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2002, 01:46:00 AM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline bettypills

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who is still sober #2 - the real question is not.......
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2002, 02:03:00 AM »
you talk about yea
the trains run on time    and
fascists
 they really get off on
NO, they desperately need THAT
 They require THAT
We were  under their thumbs'
the vast American Fascism, we were
we were at their disposal, jist ask'em, we were Just kids
but we WEREN'T we WERE NOT! JUST KIDS? We grew up!~
jist fuck'em
and we're not now nor were we...
 
don't worry
It's kinda funny if you think about it
it's kinda funny if you're HERE to laugh
It's pretty Far out and it's pretty much what we've got and that's why I love you bunch of freeeeeex......
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ladyjerrico

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who is still sober #2 - the real question is not.......
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2002, 08:58:00 AM »
In my opinion those who can funcion, think and be able to deal with things in the real world without using in my eyes defines that as sober.
Myself, I haven't drank for a little over a year and I am on anti-depressent prescribed medication. But as far as "using" drugs for stimulation, recreational activity or just to get "high" I haven't done that since 5 days before my intake in 1990.
I believe that everyone has thier own definition of "sobriety" or "not using", but I'm just stating my own thoughts on this. I welcome everyone's opinion (so don't shoot me down for mine).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
usan Minns