Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum
Mikey slashing his wrists
Anonymous:
Well, as long as it helped you[/b]. Never mind the hundred or thousands that it destroyed or damn near. Since a few felt that it helped them, I guess it was all worth it. :roll:
Anonymous:
And you don't know HOW you would have turned out had you NOT gone in...just like I don't know how I would have turned out had I not gone in. You may very well have grown out of it just like the majority of kids do, given the chance.
Robin Martin:
--- Quote ---On 2004-12-18 18:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"And you don't know HOW you would have turned out had you NOT gone in...just like I don't know how I would have turned out had I not gone in. You may very well have grown out of it just like the majority of kids do, given the chance."
--- End quote ---
UH...I DON'T THINK SO! You just don't get it - but that's OK. That's what this site is for...sharing our memories; black, white and the greys in between.
Anonymous:
OK, you don't think so. But you don't know. You really don't. Some of those people that I spoke of earlier were some pretty hard core cases. There were two of them that even back then I thought would end up dead. They're fine. They're happy, they're settled and feeling pretty content with themselves. These people who I gave ZERO chance of surviving past 25 are doing FINE.
I get it, believe me I get it. Your beloved program destroyed so many more lives than it ever helped.
GregFL:
--- Quote ---On 2004-12-18 18:29:00, Robin Martin wrote:
"
--- Quote ---
On 2004-12-18 17:51:00, Anonymous wrote: Somehow they made it through adolescense without benefit of any program.
--- End quote ---
NO DOUBT...but I wasn't one of them. All I'm saying is some of us needed it, many did not. I also believe it takes a strong spirit to be able to seek help and move on. Some of us are stronger than others...others are more sensative. We all handle difficult situations in our own unique way. I've had some very traumatic incidents over the years (and even when I questioned giving up) I DID NOT give in!! I remain in contact w/ ex-druggie friends of mine who were walking down that same path as I, and you know what?? They just quit doing drugs - just like that!! How did they do that? I have no idea - it was not in me at the time and I NEEDED assistance. I'm sorry that so many of you suffered at the hands of the Seed, but I, did not."
--- End quote ---
Good post Robin. You make some good points. Your friends, Many of them I am sure, that made it without going to the seed...here is the big secret....ready?
They did it because they were never hopeless addicts that were destined to be dead insane or injail without Art "saving" them. Non patentable Drugs and particularly marijuana have never lived up to their boggyman hype. Sure They can be dangerous and destructive but most people learn to manage their use and eventually stop, going on to the more important quests of life like success, a family, a job, a future. Its true....only the truly self destructive and obsessive compulsive types seem to get caught up in the addictive process.
The whole "one way street" hype was just a myth, Robin.
And as far as listing people that didn't make it,I could play that as well, starting with Big Frank, seed graduate and SDF poster that died of an overdose just last year. When he went into the seed he was a thirteen year old that was subjected to cruel abuse. He carried that with him till just recently when he tragically died with a needle in his arm.
The list of fallen seed "graduates" is long, painfull, and extremely telling. Bennett Beverely, jumped of the skyway. Cris, one vehicle accident, Dave L, Overdose, Mickey...blew his brains out...Pat D, in jail, Jimmy W, on the lame, and the list goes on and on...
I contend that the seed harmed many more people than it helped including most of the "sucessfull graduates" that hung around like a celebate art barker martyr for some 10 to 15 years, delaying the normalcy of having children, a family and a normal social situation, all buying into the deadinsaneorinjail stepcraft lie.
The experience doesn't harm everyone, this I know, and some people needed an extreme intervening circumstance in their life. Some people are even saved by going to jail or a mental hospital. It doesn't make it a pleasant or rewarding experience, it just happened at the right (or wrong) time. This also doesn't validate the underlying treatment modality. People have stopped using drugs by joining all types of cults, including the moonies and the hari krisnas. Most of the young guys you uses to see beating tambourines and jumping around in flowing robes were pot heads first. Most moonies and Scientologist and other cult members have checkered pasts. Some people ALWAYS stop using drugs. It is the normal human condition to try to rise above your present situation, and linking up with mind cults is one way people try to self improve. I submit that most often it is a tragic mistake that results in loss to the individual. Others seem to thrive under that type of self made societal structure.
BTW, the other day I was playing around on our states Inmate website and saw an old friend of mine in jail from dealing drugs. He never went to the seed. In fact, he used to tease me a bit. He has been in and out of jail since he was about 20. Would the seed have saved him? Would his savior be worth many others being harmed? How do we reconcile our experience by saying it was worth it to save one kid and tear another family apart or to doom another to a lifelong mental problem.... Or another to an impending feeling of worthlessness and despair for 30 years or so, never understanding why?
This modality harms people and tears families apart. It always has. I am living proof. It also intervenes in some people's lives and gives them a fresh start. Still others are left proclaiming they were saved from impending doom of death, insanity or jail when in fact there is no basis for that proclamation other than a stint in behavior modification that strongly imbedded the stepcraft myth in their hardwired memory, that left them believing before a magical date they were doomed to extreme failure and worthlessness and after said date were totally transfixed into a productive person.
Where do we take this conversation from there? Those are the facts as I see them. I know others don't agree. I trust my research and instincts on this one....
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