Author Topic: St.Pete straight 1979  (Read 28958 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #285 on: December 01, 2008, 10:13:44 PM »
please forgive me other survivors but i can not let this one go.
ok jk.. let me refresh your memory and maybe a few others will start to remember you

you and letha lead morning rap.
one morning an innocent 12 year old boy was crying hysterically,
first you accused him of being an attention freak
then you pushed him for what was up , he honestly said that the night before he had been raped by his two old commers whom were brothers.
you and letha did not report it, you did nothing . oh wait , you and letha decieded the right punishement for the two old commers was a 14 day refresher , like bobby rugals this
kid was destroyed. a 14 day refresher you sob...

do you remember in morning rap for thirty days straight i was on front row and misbehaved. now, i will tell you why , which i have told no one but those close to me, every morning i misbehaved, pretended to wrestle with the girl next to me. Why? because i knew you and letha would get off your staff chair and come break it up which gave me an opprotunity to deck letha and you at least once durring the struggle. for every beating ordered the day before you and letha got hit the following day. it was my way of not letting you get away with it. No one knew why i suddenly misbehaved daily except loray H. we managed to wisper and she joined with me.

no regrets , you sob , you owe that 12 year old who was never right again a lifetime of apologies.

u coming on here acting innocent makes me sick and you are one of the staff like chris c that i dont think can ever make up for the lives you
destroyed.
to the other survivors , dont let this one fool you. first name john,
MH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #286 on: December 02, 2008, 08:28:41 PM »
Wow.  If you're talking about this one jk in particular I think you must be mistaken.  This jk had left staff before Letha was on staff.  This jk did not work mornings because of attending school.  This jk had no authority to start people over or put them on refreshers and was extremely limited on what he was allowed to talk about.  This jk never confronted a kid like you described about a rape.  I will tell you though at what point I made my final decision to leave staff, if you care.  It was during an open night, a third phase kid was crying uncontrollably in the group.  I took him into the back room and asked what was wrong.  He was feeling guilty because he had gone home.  He lived on a farm.  He told me, a 15 year old kid myself, that he had sex with one of their farm animals.  Please believe me when I tell you this because it is the absolute truth.  I had no idea what to say or what to do.  So I asked him to return to group while I went to go get someone else that could help him.  Well, those people were RK, a marine wannabe and CC, who you've mentioned.  They laughed it off and told me they would take care of it which they never did.  Very soon after that I resigned.  

Also, this jk never met you in a room after you "closed Sarasota" because he had been in college for two years by then.  No one ever pulled a knife on me because I was never in a situation like you described and would never order someone to be beaten.  Believe what you will, but I think you may be speaking of someone with the initials of cp based on what I have read on this website.  

I remember you clearly and if memory serves I remember your dad as well from junior high school PE.  I really think you have mistaken me for someone else.  Although, after soul searching and getting blunt feedback on this website I do believe I was naive, ignorant, blind or whatever you want to call me to what was beginning to happen.  As I've posted before, in my brief time on staff my intentions were never malicious however misguided they may have been.  

I debated whether or not to respond to this post, but what you describe never happened with this jk.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Woof-a-Doof

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979 (and this JK character)
« Reply #287 on: December 03, 2008, 08:09:43 AM »
Ok...I must admit, I am a wee bit obsessed with trying to remember this "JK" individual. I read severel pages back, I get 2+2=5...Nothing is clear tween my ears. I re-read a run-in I had with a previous staffer circa page 15 or 16. I admitted I did not know him on staff, as I gather, he was on staff in Sarasota. If that is the case he was incarcerated at the same time I was 1978-81 and most probably in the same building or buildings. Yet I am not clear on who this person is. Yet I feel I must know him. Was the run-in mentioned with this same person, "JK"?

I am real sensitive to rage expressed in the most recent posts and clearly disturbed by the absolute horror. I don't recall a "Letha", so this obviously took place after my stint and took place in Sarasota. But still it seems more and more clear to me that this "JK" character is someone I knew. I see his name as "John"...Only person I knew on the lowel level of Staff (towards the end of my incarceration) was John Corbin...who I drank with a few times shortly after graduation in one of the old ABC Liquor Lounges somewhere on 4th St. in St. Pete...Perhaps it was the 49th Street Gold Mine....something like that. Yet, I dont think it's the same individual.

At this point I am not sure if this "JK" was male or female.

MH...I remember you, not well of course and I believe you had a brother, [email protected] I had heard rumor of his death. My condolences, he was good people. He was a friend of a dear friend (not straight related) and he relayed the news to me...which left me in shock and sadness.

I had to admire you from afar....for obvious reasons...I was on the guys side. But I recall your absolute resolution and simplistic defiance in regard to the atrocities that took place. If memory is correct, it was you who bitch slaped Chris Casslor, once, twice, three times as he was all up in your face while you sat on first row. I was awe struck! Primarily because Chris Casslor got what he well deserved! Secondarily, because you had the hutzbah. If you are the one I recall doing this, Chriss was inches away from your face, taunting you...asking you if it felt good to hit someone...at which point ya bitch slapped him again. Chriss was unrelenting in berating and badgering you...at which point he got the third and final crack across the face.

I had real mixed emotions at the time. Soooo, proud of you! Soooo, disapointed that I didnt have the balls to do it myself. I was far from a fighter and had zero street sense...just a terrified teenager in a fucked up situation.

My memory is bleak and foggy on this account....but I also recall an incident with George Ross in the Green Room at the Morgan Yacht Building. For what ever sick, perverted reasoning he was re-enacting a rape. Several people held the girl (whom I believe was you) down while he "dry humbed" you, re-enacting this rape. It was sickening to watch, horrifying to be able to do nothing...and a memory that has lived with me for over 3 decades. I am soo sorry I did nothing to help you...it sickens me to this day. George Ross was so into what he was doing, his face was blood red and I distinctly remember drool coming from his mouth and actually falling on you. I carry a special hate for George Ross. It would be less than honest to imply that I do not also carry, in no small degree, the hatred I harbor within, for not doing anything to prevent his actions or to protect you from his actions. It is something, I suppose I will carry to my grave.

For some reason I remember in more recent times you took Sue [email protected]@kson under your wing after her release from   the state. Sue was, and probably still is good people. If you are the person I believe you are, please say hello to Sue and that "Mr. D" sends much love and healing.

One other thing, if as a rule of thumb we protect each other, as survivors, by initials or some other method to obscure the names for privacy issues...ya know, employers doing searches on peoples names etc... And as a rule, on the other thumb, we use full names of Staff because of thier participation in the abuse (of course there are exceptions....staff who genuinely regret and have made demonstrable efforts to show remorse for thier actions...we know who they are) Yet in regard to this "JK" character.....who has been called "John"...why can't his name be published? For two reasons....A) I won't obsess and lose anymore sleep and B) If he particapated in abuse, willingly, gladly, purposfully (sp) and with great pleasure...shouldn't it be known to all?

I hope not to add pressure to those that have reservations about exposing the individuals full name...Yet with the seething rage and overt hostility expressed in recent post in this thread....why not simply give full disclosure on this persons identity? If he/she was an abuser and still doesnt see the light, why not bring thier name into the sun? Sunshine is the best deodorizer!

I feel dreadfull for rehashing all this...but I have no other way of communicating that which I can not fully explain. It's not unlike speaking that which is unspeakable....I feel so dis-at-ease, for the incident, the memories, the fact I along with a room full of guys in the green room at the time (that also did nothing to prevent the atrocity with George Ross)...and to add to the misery...I am not even sure if you were the young girl that it hapened to. If that be the case, I am even more sorry. A) Because your name/initials were involved B) The young girl (if it was not you), now a full grown woman does not have the validation that it took place....and all my apologies, regrets and nightmares are aimed at the wrong person. That girl deserves the recogniton and again the validation. She deserves the deepest sympathy and the greatest of all peace and healing.

Disturbed...
Heart Sick...
woof
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline seamus

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #288 on: December 03, 2008, 10:45:16 AM »
I know who jk is , letha was a total koolaid drinker,I  went thru the "trainee" training w/ jk,he didnt strike me as viscious.George Ross is /was from mars.He had demons of his own,I know a bunch about them as I knew george post program. M H I knew you too,and your brother and cousin,I Just Love the video of you getting all up miller newtons grill,what a sorry sack of shit he is.Probably the single most arrogant,and ego-driven peice of shit I EVER met.It amazes me to this day that str8 even existed,let alone expanded,and grew,unfettered by law or any concept of human rights.I mean this is suposed to be america,right ? not some stalinesque,fascist country.
 as for jk being abusive, I dunno, I wasnt around to see it,or not see it,nobody I knew post program from sarasota ever said shit about him or Liz H,bein shitty,And Im not about to sit here and say It didnt happen ,Im just sayin'  ....I ..... Didnt see it.
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Offline Froderik

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #289 on: December 03, 2008, 11:29:15 AM »
How's that sorry old fucker doing, anyway? Is he dead yet?  ::deadhorse::

He probably got that coronary from dishing out tough love all those years...  :rofl:

Fuck Miller Newton and his 'disciples.'
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #290 on: December 03, 2008, 03:56:16 PM »
Dear Woof,

You have NO idea how much good it did my heart to read your post. You HAVE NO IDEA HOW WARMED MY HEART WAS  AT YOUR POST. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT GOOD IT DID MY SOUL TO HEAR WHAT YOU WROTE. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. To know that others were thinking of each other. It matters not that no one stepped in, we were all kids and we all were in hell. For what it is worth, some were at an age or point in the program or place with their family that they couldn't fight back. It is not that they didn't want to with all their heart , they couldnt. Many snuck information around to help us and I was never good at sneaking, some were good at fighting . The point is we ALL, ALL helped each other survive hell. Please put to rest your guilt over having not intervened. I mean that. We all did what we were capable of at the time. I am no better than anyone else. There were times that i had to engage in abuse toward the end just to get out. It ripped my heart out like no one could understand. I would half sit on someone, I would appear to be confronting them etc. It rips my heart to this day but at the time I knew that i couldn't come back with the pollice if I didnt get out and the only way out was to play the game. For anyone that I hurt YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW SORRY I AM, BUT I COULDN'T TELL YOU THAT I HAD A PLAN. THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT OR BETTER BUT I WAS COMING BACK FOR YOU , ALL OF YOU, EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU. BECAUSE OF MY MORALS , NO . BECAUSE I COULDN'T LIVE WITH MYSELF IF I DIDNT. Yes, I was in the green room but i wasn't the only one. There were several girls. In the green room one time, 3 phasers beat my brother and his head went through the wall. If I jumped to help i would be started over and i was nearing third phase but i didnt care. I flew out of group and tried to get to him . I was tackled, beaten , what they now call waterboarding, and started over. I am revealing this because I am tired of no justice. It is time they are accountable. I am soo glad that the video of Miller makes you smile. Many because of the damage done to them can not face certain things and THAT IS NORMAL. IF Richard and I and Sammy, Ginger and Mike and anyone else can help one, one survivor feel some ,however small , justice than we are happy. I am not just saying that either.

As for JK  you are correct. I didnt devuldge it at first to give him a chance - not that he deserves it- to come an apologize and show in his actions he was sorry. But youre right, I should reveal his name. I hope that by doing so this does not cause a flood of memories that are horriaable for anyone. He was mild mannered the goody two shoes and many liked him. While in there he seemned nice enough because when compared to Chris Casselor or Richard Knowles , he was nothing. So , he looked better on the face beacause of how bad Chris and Richard were.

THE NAME JK THAT I AM REFERING TO IS JOHN KIDWILDER.

if the jk that posted here is not you, please, please forgive my rage. I hope you understand when i saw that, and the staff and the years fit. If it is not you all i can say is your post disturb me because if your not him, how do you say "no regrets". There is not a survivor i know that would say they have no regrets. Your memory may be failing you so i wont push it as you will remember when your ready.

IF I HAD ONE WISH, I WOULD WISH THAT FROM THIS DAY FORWARD THAT ALL SURVIVORS WOULD FIGHT FOR EACH OTHER, BE PATIENT WITH EACH OTHER HELP EACH OTHER. THE BOND WE HAVE IS ONE ONLY FOUND IN FOX HOLES.  I AM GOING TO REPOST SOMETHING UNDER THIS THAT I i POSTED WEEKS AGO I THINK EXPLAINS WHAT I MEAN.

I HAVE NEVER POSTED THIS PART OF MY HEART BUT I CARE DEEPLY ABOUT EACH AND EVERYONE ONE OF THE SURVIVORS. I KNOW THAT MANY OTHERS LIKE GINGER , SAMMY, MIKE , AND RICHARD DO TO. THEY HAVE TO OR THEY COULD NOT DO WHAT THEY HAVE DONE THROUGH THE YEARS.

HERE IS A POST I MADE WEEKS AGO. IT IS HARD TO PUT MY HEART ON THE BOARD, STILL SCARED OF OPENING IT TO ANYONE, STILL AFRAID THAT IT WILL BE TAKEN WRONG OR WE WILL CONFRONT EACH OTHER AS WE SOMETIMES DO. MY TRUE HEART HAS BEEN CLOSED FOR YEARS. NO MATTER WHAT POST APPEARS AFTER THIS THANK YOU FOR GIVING ME THE COURAGE TO TAKE THE CHANCE.



POST- IN REFRENCE TO "IN LOVING MEMORY"

There are countless lives taken from all the programs. Straight has a LONG list. Wrongful death suit seems appropriate.
I have a question though does anyone know a survivor has that has taken their life years after leaving. Such as being out lets say 20 years later or something. If so, does anyone know how many? Does anyone know the most recent. I know the memories haunt us all for years if not a lifetime. I have a reason for asking and I don't mean to be depressing or inappropriate. Rumour has it there has been many in their 30s or 40s that have taken their life as a direct result of the endless torment the programs create throughout life. I also heard that several did recently.

May you all rest in peace now, no longer plagued by the brainwashing, night terrors and hatred that even time can not subside. To those fallen survivors may we always remember you and remember that the worst nightmare of those that tortured us is for us to work as a team, no longer to tormet each other. No longer to be afraid of control or lack there of, to longer buy into their tactic of divide and conquer. To all of those that engaged in destroying us the worst that could happen to them is for all of us to show real love and concern for each other not the sick , confrontational love they tried to drill in us, to work together as one not be divided over things that do not reflect justice for all of our fallen friends. Ginger is right that we are and were a victim of war. A bond (ask any vet) that can not be broken by anything. A bond that would mean we have, and did and would continue to give our life and our love for another survivor.
That is our enemys worst nightmare.

Margaret H.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #291 on: December 03, 2008, 04:54:11 PM »
Thank you to all the survivors who have been patient with me through this topic and who remembered me and my family. While I am devuldging my heart i want to tell you all this. Shortyl after coming in say six months or so. I knew and planned that in order to be a crediable witness I had to remember as much as possiable. I committed to memory staff names, birthdays , innodents, who was there , who did what. When i was in group , in my head I was repeating things over and over in my head to never forget so i could be a good witness.
I had no idea HOW MENTALLY DESTRUCTIVE THAT WOULD BE TO ME AND I DON'T RECOMMEND IT.
I am saying this because I want anyone to know that I hurt THAT IT KILLS ME TO THIS DAY, BUT I HAD A PLAN. It took 3 and half to four years to finally get out where i was put in the protection of the state and was court ordered OUT of the program. I am also saying this to let you know , wolf and others that on the face of things some of us seem like fighters but inside the nightmares are horrid, the faces you can see like yesterday because you commited it to memory.
Yet, i find that I still have many blanks. But what I do know is the staff that enjoyed the power, the abuse , the control so here is the list of names I have

Chris Casselor - sick , including the sex wraps and "accidently" walking into girl strip searches and soooo much more
Richard Knowles - SICK
Wanda Minton
Letha Yost - I HEARD has cancer. I believe her dad woho worked with my mom , told my mom that.
John Kidwllder
Ms. Gregario- Adult women got involved sexually with guy newcomers, i believe they were underage too.
Greg and his mother - on staff in Sarasota. His mom was executive staff, short blondish hair, greg was short stocky , dark hair and a disabled sister
Helen Peterman
Betty Sembler
Liz Cassidy
David - junior staff, morgan yacht, muscle bound not david searcy
Aimee Wright - But i have gotten through that one as she is so sick from cancer i think she is incorherent and has to be taken care of like a child
Pam G
Miller Newton
Mike - short stocky , sarasota
Dr Hartz
Dr Ross
Charles Morgan - I have interviewed him in the last three years and YOU SIR SHOULD SHOW THE BALLS THAT DR. BURNS HAS. YOU LIED TO ME WHEN I CALLED AND APPEARED TO HAVE NO REGRETS.

Those staff that got me out and I owe my life to

Marnie S- ALWAYS MY FRIEND , FOR LIFE. IF YOU EVER NEED ANYTHING I WILL ALWAYS BE HERE FOR YOU
Sue C. Yes, i took her in a couple of years ago, I owed her AT LEAST that.
Leslee F- If your out there PLEASE CONTACT GINER AND CONTACT ME, I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT HOW MUCH I OWE YOU
Dee Dee L.- DEE YOU KNOW SO I WONT EMBARRASS YOU HERE.
They worked together to get me out and in the custody of the state. Marnie saved my life in there more than once. If it had not been for them, who were not on staff anymore there is no way i could have gotten out to close the program. I owe all of them my life as i could take no more.

Those I have spoken to and I know they never felt good about it or have done what they can to help and rectify what they did

Cheryl C.
Nancy H
David S.- I believe is deceased
Robin P.-
Dr Burns has given ISAC a statement, tried to help the survivors within a year of Sarasota closing , to this day even if it is three am , if its a survivor he will come to the phone. More than willing to testify
Sherrie H
Brett P.


I am sorry cant go on, to many memories.

TO BETTY SEMBLER WHO NEVER ASKED US WHAT DO WE WANT

WE WANT GOVERNMENT HEALTH BENEFITS FOR ALL SURVIVORS BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT SUPPORTED IT
WE WANT A MEETING WITH YOU , MEL AND HELEN AND FOUR PREVIOUSLY CHOSEN SURVIVORS . A LEGIT, PROFESSIONAL, NON THREATNING MEETING. BUT OF COURSE YOU DONT HAVE THE GUTS TO TALK TO US DO YOU. .
 BTW Betty how is the girlfriend, neet little arrangement you have, hows it working out for you.It must be hard handling the girlfriend huh?? Oh wait, you didnt want that made public. My bad. No, Betty you have NO IDEA how much we know, you have no idea how much evidence we have. We are patient , in time Betty the truth about you will be told. Did you ever wonder why the ambassadors , and elite that cancelled on your birthday party a few years ago over in Rome. Simple everyone that was invited (long guest list you made btw) got documents. I guess some just couldnt stand the thought of associating with someone like that.Now, show some guts and set up the meeting.
WE WANT THE MORGAN YACHT BUILDING TO PUT IN THAT VERY PLACE A HELP CENTER FOR SURVIVORS AND THOSE HAVING BEEN ABUSED
WE WANT YOU TO ADMIT IT AND THEN DO WHAT YOU CAN TO MAKE IT RIGHT IN THE LIFE YOU HAVE LEFT ALTHOUGH YOU CANT MAKE IT RIGHT YOU COULD TRY
WE WANT A PUBLIC ADMISSION AND APOLOGY
WE WANT YOU TO GIVE UP -BETTY SEMBLER - DAY
WE WANT THE SEMBLER COMPANY TO SELL WHATEVER IT HAS TO  TO CREATE A FUND FOR SURVIVORS
WE WANT A REVIEW BOARD TO INSURE AND HAVE FREEDOM TO INVESTIGATE OTHER PROGRAMS TO MAKE SURE THIS DOESNT HAPPEN
And a few other things.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #292 on: December 03, 2008, 05:15:22 PM »
Margaret, this is John that responded.  At the beginning when I found this site you are correct, I did have no regrets.  I was thinking only of my self and not seeing what my actions did even though they did not compare to the violence the staff members put you and others through.  Someone in one thread made an analogy which really sunk in to me.  While I thought I was extending a hand to help people, my other hand was being controlled by Straight.  While my intentions were to help, I was actually continuing doing nothing more than carrying out what Straight wanted me to.  All the "tools" I thought I had to help were not mine but Straights.  In my heart I truly wanted to help people and still to this day, I just couldn't see I was not helping at the time.  I do apologize for those actions and there is no excuse for them.  However, the things and situations you accused me of in your post are simply not true as I explained in my previous response.  While I am guilty of perpetuating the Straight philosophy while I was on staff, I was never physical with anyone and never could or would order someone to be beaten.  I had seen enough after the open meeting scene I described and left to move on with my life. Should I have questioned things more?  Absolutely, but I cannot change that now and feel terrible for the horrendous things you and others went through and still go through to this day.  I understand you being angry at me for being on staff and being a part of this nightmare.  I doubt I can change that but if I could I would.

Sorry to you and to all.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #293 on: December 04, 2008, 08:55:06 AM »
This is Margaret D. the person that started this thread so long ago. Margaret H. I remember you well.
You owe me no apology for our time together in straight. We were all in the same situation, doing whatever we could to survive.
I do remember one thing about you though that seems not to have changed and that is that you were a liar.
I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but it's truly the one big thing that stands out in my memory.
From day one when you stood up and said that you knew me and that we had done all these drugs together when in fact we had never even met. I remember then wondering why you had lied but, for some reason, that was just the begining.
You stood up in many raps and said things about me that were simply not true. Maybe it was because I was from Sarasota and at that time there weren't that many of us, or maybe it was because we had the same name...I really have no idea why you felt the need to do that but maybe in some strange way, that was your way of dealing with being there.

I also remember and knew John K. and I have to say that I do not think that his name belongs on your list of staff members that were abusive and enjoyed it. You wrote about things that he did to you that he couldn't possibly  have done because he wasn't even there! And how was he so different than any one of us? He was just a kid too, trying to find his way thru all that shit in his own way. I don't remember him EVER being cruel or abusive to anyone while I was there and we knew eachother after he left, so I think my timeline is pretty accurate.
Maybe your memory is blurred and you have him confused with someone else, or maybe you are lying to make some kind of point, I'm really not sure. If you're going to start recounting your memories of certain raps and who said what you might want to keep in mind that there are still some of us who remember you and the things you said and did. Long before you were the activist trying to close the program, you were the staff trainee doing everything and anything to get on staff.  I've read a couple of your posts where people have remembered a certain incident where something happened to a girl and you have siad that the girl was you when it absolutely wasn't you. Why would lie like that????
I'm not trying to say that horrible things didn't happen to you because I don't know what happened after I left, but your lying about people and events during that time makes me question just about everything that you post.
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #294 on: December 04, 2008, 05:30:12 PM »
Margaret H. go back and read your sworn affidavit.
Just wondering why the incidents you claimed happened with John K. are incidents that in your sworn affidavit  you say happened with Chris C.
And if John K was as horrible as you have said, why is his name not mentioned even ONCE?

You owe this man a serious apology
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Offline Anonymous

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #295 on: December 04, 2008, 08:08:48 PM »
Quote from: "guest"
This is Margaret D. the person that started this thread so long ago. Margaret H. I remember you well.
You owe me no apology for our time together in straight. We were all in the same situation, doing whatever we could to survive.
I do remember one thing about you though that seems not to have changed and that is that you were a liar.
I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but it's truly the one big thing that stands out in my memory.
From day one when you stood up and said that you knew me and that we had done all these drugs together when in fact we had never even met. I remember then wondering why you had lied but, for some reason, that was just the begining.
You stood up in many raps and said things about me that were simply not true. Maybe it was because I was from Sarasota and at that time there weren't that many of us, or maybe it was because we had the same name...I really have no idea why you felt the need to do that but maybe in some strange way, that was your way of dealing with being there.

I also remember and knew John K. and I have to say that I do not think that his name belongs on your list of staff members that were abusive and enjoyed it. You wrote about things that he did to you that he couldn't possibly  have done because he wasn't even there! And how was he so different than any one of us? He was just a kid too, trying to find his way thru all that shit in his own way. I don't remember him EVER being cruel or abusive to anyone while I was there and we knew eachother after he left, so I think my timeline is pretty accurate.
Maybe your memory is blurred and you have him confused with someone else, or maybe you are lying to make some kind of point, I'm really not sure. If you're going to start recounting your memories of certain raps and who said what you might want to keep in mind that there are still some of us who remember you and the things you said and did. Long before you were the activist trying to close the program, you were the staff trainee doing everything and anything to get on staff.  I've read a couple of your posts where people have remembered a certain incident where something happened to a girl and you have siad that the girl was you when it absolutely wasn't you. Why would lie like that????
I'm not trying to say that horrible things didn't happen to you because I don't know what happened after I left, but your lying about people and events during that time makes me question just about everything that you post.

 Thank you, Margaret, and the following guest who posted directly after you.  I'm not looking to be excused for being on staff.  I understand there is guilt by ignorance.  But, I was never involved in these situations I was accused of and if my name is going to be listed, which I do not care because I have noting to hide, I want to defend my name.  It was a long time ago and memories fade, but I was not associated with the slanderous accusations that were made; simple as that.

Thank you again and I hope all is well with you and your family.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #296 on: December 04, 2008, 09:56:26 PM »
Dear Margaret D.

It seems you have some real burried anger at me for something i did. You mentioned saying that we knew each other, i may have the truth is I don't remember. I do know that many of us did things we regret as you said because we had to.
I think it is very "staff" like of you to call me a liar when you do not know what happened by your own admission. But, i think that is the result of some burried resentment which I understand if I hurt you somehow.
I will say this, we all know Straight was BAD ENOUGH that there is no reason for anyone to lie about what happened there. I don't need to prove anything to you but I will say this my memory is not flawed, I know exactly what happened with John K. In fact, he may even tell you. I am sure he remembers the knife incident.

You know Margaret I do care about you but I find it disheartning that you would come out of the woodwork after all these years and start or nearly start by calling another survivor a liar. If you don't believe things like that happened in Sarasota don't take my word for it ask Sammy or even Ginger.
I have NEVER lied about what happened there and I never would. There is no point. I am not writing a book , or gaining anything.

I must say its a bit odd for you to come on here an attack me when you just stroll in. I have been fighting this for well since I got there. I paid a huge price then  and after. I put my money where my mouth was, many times i spent hundreds if not thousands fighting this, I have been across the country fighting it, I relived it not willingly but because when you get that involved it is like swallowing poison as it brings back the memories, nightmares and consumes you. I have suffered , my family has suffered, my son has suffered .  As I write this I must say I grow angry so, since you were blunt , I shall be too. What I want to say is how dare you! How dare you take my worst memories and scars and chop it up to a lie which I gain nothing from.
Yes, I was a staff trainee and not that you know why or how but i'll tell you how, i was 7th stepped and staff me (Cheryl K) ask her she will tell you,asked me. I was working on an escape and if i said no , they would know right away something was up. I was on staff all of , at most four to five months. I dindn't and couldnt turn it down without giving myself away. I also knew that being on staff would give me access to documents to take with me to the DA and police. THAT is why I was on staff.
When i left , I didnt go get high, I didnt go party with friends, I WENT DIRECTLY TO THE POLICE. I took my moms car and went directly to the authorities with all the evidence i had. Now, if my motive was anything less than that I would have gone out and partied or hung with friends or at least taken one night to party. I didn't.
I find it a little presumptious of you to think you know what i did or why i did it. But lets see do my actions match my words?
You know Margaret now that I have said how I feel. Look we were brainwashed to destroy and confront and be cruel to each other. Those of us here on this board are refusing to do that again to each other ESPECIALLY WITHOUT CAUSE. I know you just came around but we are here to work together , to be there for each other, to fight with each other.
As for my " activisim" I have NOTHING TO prove to you. I PUT MY ACTIONS WHERE MY MOUTH WAS MANY MANY YEARS AGO WHILE STILL IN THE PROGRAM and MANY MANY TIMES SINCE. I have been there for survivors even shortly after they got out. Many other survivors have been there for me as well and I am forever grateful to all them.
All I can do is tell you that whatever I did to you to hurt you and make you angry I am from the bottom of my heart sorry. I hope that helps your burried anger. I know its hard when you first start looking it up, remembering things and the anger and all of it comes back.
You may not think that Johns name belongs here, there is nothing I can do about that. I know what I know , I WILL NEVER FORGET IT.

 YOU SAID "he did to you that he couldn't possibly have done because he wasn't even there! " - Margaret he was there, he was on staff , junior staff ask the other survivors.

 No, I never saw John hit anyone or sit on anyone. However, Kim S was misbehaving and I was on a higher phase, Letha told me to take her in the back room and "take care of it" I knew what that meant. It meant taking her on because she was fighting with others in the group,, Well, I couldnt watch or participate in one more incident so I didnt . A few minutes into us being in the room John and Letha heard no noice from the room and came in to see what was up. They came in Kim mouthed off at them and they told me to grab her and put her on the floor, I wouldn't. I was planning an escape and had a small switch blade in my pocket that i had taken from my dads dresser just in case they figured me out. I pulled it out and said to John and Letha - If you come near her I will kill you- It wasnt said like people say it when they are mad. I was calm, For the first time in my life I meant it. My stomach sank as I realized I would,  its a calm but frightning feeling when you cross that ledge. YOU HAVE NO IDEA, HOW ANGRY I HAVE BEEN THAT THEY PUT ME IN THE POSITION TO MAKE THAT KIND OF CHOICE AT 16 YEARS OLD , I WOULD HAVE TO TAKE A LIFE TO PROTECT MINE AND HERS. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THAT FEELS LIKE. BTW I WAS EITHER ON 5TH PHASE BUT I BELIEVE I WAS A STAFF TRAINEE. IF I DIDNT CARE, IF I WASNT FIGHTING EVEN THEN WHY ON GODS EARTH WOULD I RISK A START OVER WHEN I WAS SOOO CLOSE TO GETTING OUT JUST TO HELP KIM AND YES, I GOT STARTED OVER. BECAUSE I AM WONDERFUL  A RESOUNDING NO- BECAUSE I COULD NOT WATCH ONE MORE BEATING IT WAS SELFISH, I COULDNT STAND ANYMORE.
 So, If i was (As you say) so excited about being on staff than tell me why I was
The first 7th stepper ever started over  and then ever started over twice
Why was I the first staff ever started over
Why was holding the record for start overs
SIMPLE - because i was fighting it even then.I could of chose to coast through in nine months leave and be done with it , I DIDNT HAVE TO GET UP HELP KIM OR ANYONE ELSE BUT I DID. i dont like saying that, and want no "points" for it. Because it was Marnie S and Dee Dee who did that for me many times, saved me many times in there. I was following their example. NOW, that is not to say that all start overs were due to someone else. It was John and letha who gave those oldcomers a 14 day refresher PERIOD. I know because i can still see his face like it was yesterday.

As for the green room Margaret I was there longer than anyone ever had been at the time. I was in EVERY building, Green Room yes i watched them throw my brothers head through a wall in the Green Room, I was in the Green Room when Aimee , Nancy got in my face in a private confrontation, I was in the "green room" when Ross came in. I never got raped in there. I do not want to talk about Ross, not because of what he did to me so much as what he did to my friends who i have sat with years later and listned  to them cry and if I am not mistaken YOU WERENT EVEN THERE.

many think Gails name belongs here , I don't because she didnt do anything to me , but  its not really that I dont. I understand why they would feel that way and any staff that enjoyed it like Wanda or has no regrets should be here.

I am trying hard not to get angry because usually when we all roll on here for the first time its hard. We have all sorts of anger and blame and all that goes with it and we often attack each other or the first person because they are there. So, let me say it again , I am sorry for ANYTHING I may have done to you in there.
All I can say Margaret is slow down, take your time. Let the memories come back and deal with what you can and put away what is to hard. I know the more you talk to people on here the more we all remember things, but lets be here for each other not attack each other as we did in group. Nothing makes the Semblers more happy.

MARGARET - NO ONE THAT I KNOW IS HERE TO BLAME YOU, OR ACCUSE YOU. Your time in there is something only you can deciede if there is anything you need or feel the need to apologize for, you are right that all of us kids had to do certain things that none of us are proud of to save ourselves. The exceptions are those that enjoyed it so, or who come on here telling us the same thing they did in group or try to hurt us again.
I CANT SPEAK FOR EVERYONE MARGARET BUT FOR THE ONES I KNOW ON HERE I THINK I CAN SAY THAT THEY ARE PATIENT AS A SAINT WITH EACH OTHER, THEY ARE NOT HERE TO "confront" you - that was in Straight not here. Find another survivor you trust on here and talk to them it helps.
I wish you the best and I am sorry that at times in this post I sounded angry I am human, but the truth is I know how hard it is when you first start looking straight up again.
I know there are MANY MANY caring survivors here.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #297 on: December 04, 2008, 10:11:22 PM »
I just realized i didnt answer "guest" question.

When I closed the program i gave a full deposition to the State Attorney. The state attorney had a 600 PAGE report as a result of that deposition and investigation. As for Chris, he and about eight others plea bargined , so who is telling the truth?
You can feel free to contact that state attorney and ask him, (let me know and Ill give you his contact information) he is retired now but I still talk to him occassionally and send xmas cards to thank him for getting me out and saving my life. I was there a LONG time, so I don't know what sworn affadavit your refering to I have done a few to help other survivors with their cases. In that circumstance , they want only answers or information on specific things having to do with them or their case. Again , I don't know which affadavit your refering to but maybe that helps answer it. There was a full and long investigation when I closed the program and you will find everything there.

Hope that helps
MH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #298 on: December 04, 2008, 11:09:37 PM »
Margaret H. I have no buried anger toward you nor did you hurt me in any way that I would have issues with you.
I "came out of the woodwork" because I read what you wrote about John K. and could not let that go without saying something.
You call me " staff like" because I wrote about your lying, but it's the truth Margaret. You lied on a regular basis the entire time I knew you and then you come here and lie about things that happened with John K. and I have no idea why. Your stories remain the same but you change the players according to who you're aiming your anger at.  You can write whatever you want about people even if it isn't true, but when someone calls you on your lies then they are not being supportive of their fellow survivor???  

Did you see the date I started this thread????
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline mh1979

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Re: St.Pete straight 1979
« Reply #299 on: December 04, 2008, 11:42:01 PM »
Margaret - I also wanted to answer one other question.
You asked about Chris C. I could go into a VERY LONG LIST of innocents involving Chris, Letha and others.
Some of us kinda follow an unwritten rule when we discuss straight and the memories that come flooding back and how deal with each other as friends.
if I listed all these things I remember  about this person or that, it may jog the memory of a person whom is new to the board, perhaps a memory they arenít ready to deal with and were not expecting to be hit with. In the past, some have committed suicide after looking up Straight or seeking out survivors and trying to deal with all the anger, hurt, pain etc that comes up. Perhaps, that is due to memories come flooding back and they werenít ready to be hit with a LIST of memories. Oh, we feel free to post a particular memory that is bothering us, or something we just remembered, but to make a list for you of ALL the things Chris C was involved with would (in my opinion only) very irresponsible of me.
What if there is a new person to the board from the Sarasota program reading this and my list FLOODS his/her memory and they can't handle it.
I know that sounds strange but I know the survivors that I am friends with, we DONíT do that. Simply, out of consideration for the ones just coming around.  If someone doesnít remember something and we do, we don't tell them. I believe they will remember when they are ready. I am in NO WAY implying that anyone else should do that or even that my friends and I are right about handling it that way. Maybe we are not, maybe doing that does more harm than good.. Each one of us has to decide for themselves how we are friends with survivors. Just like me, some memories or emotions I have dealt with, others are just too deep for me to deal with at the time.
Also, there are kinda 2 survivors here, those of us that have been "out" a long time (thatís what we call it).
It means there may be some of us that started the looking straight up on the net, or seeking out others survivors to talk to and healing process years ago.
There are others survivors that have just started looking straight up or just beginning the healing process. We say they havenít been "out" very long.
We try hard to be there for them, cut them some slack because it is a VERY RUDE awakening when the memories start coming back for them.
Now, that doesnít mean that even today many of us that have been on the boards for years or have many survivor friends now donít have days where we remember things that are painful, some very painful.

If you would like me to go through the incidents with you through email or something I am happy to if you think it would help you. I remember a lot about you. In fact, in the program we were friends. You and I use to do the skits remember. You were hilarious with that hair. Of course, I remember some other not so pleasant things as well BUT we ALL were involved in that shit, doing things we would never want to, doing things at times very selfishly to save out own skin but we were kids. I know you said you were never part of that but Margaret we ALL were at one time or another, to one degree or another. This includes me. There is woman that works at Sarasota Memorial who I know is furious with me because I sat on her or something the point is for her, she remembers me as someone that hurt her. I would give anything to be able to talk to her, tell her how sorry I am. None of us kids, I donít think, wanted to hurt anyone. We were all just dealing with hell. Now, there were a few that seem to enjoy it.

About the list I made Ė It is my list, its how I feel, I am not saying its right for someone else. Although, many votes were cast for Wanda and Chris Ė kidding sorry- wanted to lighten it up. Anyway, itís based on my experience.
I hope you find what youíre looking for,
 I wish you peace and if you want to talk I am here.

sorry so long...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »