Author Topic: Seed Psychology  (Read 9627 times)

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Offline cleveland

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Seed Psychology
« on: October 08, 2004, 04:19:00 PM »
It's been a while since I've posted, I got tired of seeing my name all over this board and thought I'd give it a break. But now I'm ready - I've been thinking about what my thinking was like before, during and after the Seed experience.

Before the Seed, I was very concerned about myself, I thought maybe I was going crazy. I'd get high with my friends and just get paranoid; I'd drink and feel better, but only for a while and only before a hangover sunk in; I desparately wanted to be tough, to be cool, to be well-thought of by my peers, and especially by the opposite sex; I was angry at my parents, I hated myself, I was feeling estranged from my friends. I would spend time daydreaming about a perfect world, where I would feel free of all of this - maybe a 60s-style commune, or a never-ending roadtrip, or living in some small town. My only real escape was books - I read all the time, which gave me the reputation for being smart. However, my chaotic family life meant that I had very little self-discipline, and in fact, could barely spell, do any math besides the basics, and was ill-equipped for college or work. And it was after my first year of college that I came upon the Seed...

I entered the Seed, and felt that it was a parallel universe - being cool was a bad thing, being happy was OK, I was to be totally honest, I had been a 'Druggie' before but now I was going to be straight, which was going to be the greatest thing in the world, and then I'd be like Art or one of the guys who'd been around for a while.

OK - I had my doubts. A lot of it seemed like doublespeak to me, I mistrusted authority and hierarchy, and not everyone was funny and smart at the Seed -

BUT - I was told - what did I ever do on my own? All I had done was make myself unhappy. And I was afraid of what had happened to members of my family - alcoholics - and some high school classmates - suicide or 0D - that what I was told at the Seed resonated with me. And people told me that they loved me - I was SO SO hungry for attention.

..and so I graduated, and got a job, and stayed on...one year to the next...still a Seedling...

...waiting to truly feel happy...waiting to accept myself...waiting to feel secure...

I tried so hard to 'be straight' - which meant, to me, honesty - absolute - and selflessness, hardwork, always having a 'great' attitude, and doing the right thing, which meant, listening to staff - sometimes instead of my own heart. And not reading books, thinking 'non-seed' thoughts, and not talking with - or trusting - non-seed people!

Then - doubts crept in. I realized that there was a certain amount of selfishness, competition, pettiness at the Seed - after all, we were a group of young adults, 18 - 35 years old, some better-looking, some smarter, some nicer, and we were living in this fish-bowl environment - and NO SEX. We worked at jobs staff approved of, studied things at schools staff approved, played games or sports together STAFF approved of - there was no freedom to develop an independent identity, unless you 'split' which was a terrible thing to do...and when someone did, they simply weren't ever spoken of again, except in hushed tones.

By the time I left the Seed, I was physically ill from the stress of trying to be perfect all the time - whenever I was at the Seed, or around staff, or Art, or representing the Seed at work, I had butterflies in my stomach, my hands shook, I felt sick - and yet I would have this stupid, perfect-seedling smile plastered on my face (for some reason, this was called a 'shit-eating grin' - how appropriate). NOW, the flip side of this IS THAT I PROBABLY HAD SOME OF THE BEST TIMES OF MY LIFE. I know some of you won't believe this. But for those of us who hung around the Seed for some time, it was like a never-ending slumber party, or summer camp - I mean we'd LAUGH our asses off. We knew each other so well, and of course, we'd revealed a lot of embarrasing info about ourselves in raps, so - no where to hide, baby. And we lived in houses with 4, 5 or 6 of us together, and we'd stay up late, laughing, telling jokes, whatever. Some of us worked together, too, and then we'd go into the seed, catch a rap, and then home and on and on...

Oh, it was far from ideal. The no freedom part sucked, of course, and having to clear everything with an ever-shifting heirarchy ('cause sometimes a very senior oldcomer or even staff, would 'fuck up' and lose stature, maybe even 'start over' on the front row - and usually we'd never even find out why this happened, at least if you were scrupulous about the 'no talking behind another's back' rule), the non-dating policy for most of us (only a few were given permission in the seven years I was there), and plus - as some people got more stature and status at the Seed - doing things like getting good-paying jobs, or being allowed to go to college, or becoming a staff or junior staff person - it would be hard to maintain a friendship. They'd be out of your league, maybe, or perhaps you'd advance, and they wouldn't, and it would be kind of embarrasing to hang out with them - oh how petty.

And none of the above, to my mind, had anything to do with what I thought being straight was supposed to be - being honest, being selfless, being a friend and, you know, changing the world and all - so, after a while, I left too. And no one there ever knew why, they weren't supposed to talk about it, and I am unlikely to ever see any of them again - although, who knows...

As to my psychology now - oh, the world is not so black and white. I am so so much less inclined to worry about being perfect, about status, and maybe this is just the maturity of getting older, and being happier. But I in no way have that fundamentalist mind-set the seed encouraged!

Whether I had learned good things from the Seed - I don't know - I learned how to work hard, I learned how to 'change my attitude' and I learned to be unafraid to commit myself to something.

ONe thing for sure...I didn't need the Seed. I needed a strong, healthy family - and that I didn't have. The Seed was a temporary substitute, but it papered over it's own weaknesses and inconsistancies - you couldn't question it.

Where else did the Seed go wrong? Well, no one was willing to let us go, to really give us freedom. We shoulod have been given tools to live better lives, and set free...Instead, it was a party that went on too long, or an old-fashioned dad who can't let his kids go...because after all, he's lonely...anyway, that, and the black and white 'fundamentalist' thinking of the Seed, ruined it for me and brought it down in the end. And it spawned horrors like Straight, to boot!

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Wally Gator[ This Message was edited by: cleveland on 2004-10-08 13:30 ][ This Message was edited by: cleveland on 2004-10-08 13:33 ]
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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2004, 06:37:00 PM »
A lot of people enjoy  being in cults even when they can see the good side. This is why when you ask a cult member, say Tom Cruise, about scientology he will say it is GREAT. Also why people come here and say Art was a great man and the seed saved their lives.

I tend to think anyone still alive today is due to their own inner strength and not some strength derived from seven stepping and writing moral inventories. Nor do I think the ego destruction and cultic behavior can destory a strong person. The Seed couldnt save nor destroy those with strong wills. Only the sheep got saved or got destroyed by the seed.

I understand you had some good times there. That doesnt change the fact that the Seed was a mind-personality cult. I found it disqusting then and my opinion hasnt changed all that much. I think all the hero worshipping, groveling and cultic behavior was a bad thing for most people, and those that thrived under it...I think it says something about them, not the seed.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2004, 07:46:00 PM »
Wow, Walley! Evan's not the only one with a gift for vignettes. That was beautifully told and brought back so many memories of watching my big brothers navigate their way out of Seed culture.

G:   "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do?"
EB:  "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."
-- Somewhere in No Man's Land, BA4

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2004, 07:53:00 PM »
Greg, I wonder about those seedlings I met at the doughnut shop. I bet they're out by now. I bet Wally knew them, too.

I swear by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=AR5564&aid=10247' target='_new'>* - ~ Galt's Creed ~ - *

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Offline Tony Stark

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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2004, 02:36:00 AM »
It could either to all tose things to you. I didn't even know t was a cult in full referendom. I just thought it was a drug rehab while I was there. I was only 14 years old, so call me naive.

Don't worry about temptation--as you grow older, it starts avoiding you.  
-- Old Farmer's Almanac

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Offline GregFL

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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2004, 02:49:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-10-08 13:19:00, cleveland wrote:



Whether I had learned good things from the Seed - I don't know - I learned how to work hard, I learned how to 'change my attitude' and I learned to be unafraid to commit myself to something. ONe thing for sure...I didn't need the Seed. I needed a strong, healthy family - and that I didn't have. The Seed was a temporary substitute, but it papered over it's own weaknesses and inconsistancies - you couldn't question it.




BINGO!  Well said.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2004, 04:20:00 PM »
I'm sorry-The Seed was not perfect but what the heck is?  We are all human beings.  People have flaws.  I saw lives turn around when I was at the Seed that others said there was no hope for.  These people believed some where down in there psyche that they couldn't change either.  Guess what they did.  I'm one of them.  You can call it a cult you can call it what you like.  I do not know(and sure you can argue it) what would have happened to me if the Seed had not come along when it did.  I was ready for the nut house at 18, some of this was my fault(drug usage) some my alcholic father's and nervous breakdown mother's, suicidal aunt(s) ect.  I was what I was & I needed help & got it.  I loved the help I got & became stronger & taught what I needed to learn to survive & thrive.  Sure some people were controlling sure some were thickheaded & a few were even excuse the expression Assholes.  Guess what the majority of people cared about me & helped me and even loved me.  This is my story & I wanted to tell it.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2004, 05:33:00 PM »
I think the worst aspect of these types of programs is in the totalist mindset.

Ok, maybe you were in deep trouble and asking for help when you showed up. So you never experienced what I and many, many other kids did. I was not a drug addict. I wasn't mean or thoughtless or irresponsible. I got decent grades, went to band practice, did more than my fair share of chores around the house w/o complaint, worked part time w/ my dad in a neighbor's Hunter ceiling fan store, never forgot to feed my dearly loved dog, etc.

But I was forced to denounce myself and, to a large degree, to believe it. Worse? In order to stay out of trouble and, eventually, to get out, I had to force others to denounce themselves as well.

I don't know if anyone can adequately explain what that's like to someone who hasn't been through it.

To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'> Thomas Jefferson

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Offline rjfro22

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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2004, 06:13:00 PM »
I agree with you 100%  The Seed help set me on the road with tools I still use to this day. I know there are some people on this site that want to see only the bad.  If the Seed was such a cult,
What was it's intentions? I believe the Seed's intentions were to help save lives, and with the good and bad I am honored to have been a part of it.
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Offline Tony Stark

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« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2004, 03:07:00 AM »
Is that so? Well wildcard, GregFL, You thought you were lost until you ran into Fager......Gee I thought I read his portfolio..........Isn't he a freemason? and don't freemason's take care of freeemasons? You learned any high level handshake salutations? Got yourself a mason ring et? I wouldn't be so wise in your own eyes yet clown..........You are just trapped in another cult still, and I don't want to run any group or freemason forum ....clown.Or any group for that matter. I got better things to do with my God-given rights.

There are two kinds of people; those who's lives have been somehow touched by harsh tragedy and those you don't know very well.
-- Ginger Warbis

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Mine Eyes Have Seen The Glory Of the Coming Of The Lord\"

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2004, 09:30:00 AM »
Antigen- It sounds like your parents suck- but they also were worried that their little girl could possibly turn out like her brothers.  It sounds like to me they did the best they could.  Maybe thet wern't right about alot and gave the responsibility to othgers to love & nurish you - but so what you are like the rest of us.  Its 30 years later and why do you make a crusade out of it?  Let it go for your sanity.  (yeah I know your worried about the rest of the world) Thats good but its sounds like  & it rings loud and clear to me that you need to LET IT GO.  Move on like others have.  Have a good life & love the hell out of someone else like you didn't get.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2004, 01:28:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-10-10 06:30:00, Anonymous wrote:

 Its 30 years later and why do you make a crusade out of it?


My parents got suckered by a smooth operator. It wouldn't have been so bad to turn out like my older brothers. They really weren't getting into a lot of trouble. They just got swept up in the Seed craze just like a lot of other people in our neighborhood.

The reason it's still important today is becase of what they've been doing for the last 30 years. Art and his little band of freaky followers may have pulled in their horns but there's more to it.

For almost 20 years, I did put it behind me. Never stayed in touch w/ old Seedlings or Straightlings, never really talked about the experience except w/ very close friends, usually when asked about high school or when they were talking about their youth or reminiscing about how they'd come to be friends.

What got my attention was when Brother Jeb took office in `98. One of the first things he did as governor was to promise $100M in funding for juvenile rehabilitation programs. I remembered that Nancy Reagan had been involved w/ Straight and we all know that the Büsh dynasty is pretty much an extention of the Reagan admin. So I had to look. And what I've found is that the Program really never shut down at all. The corporation changed it's name from Straight to Drug Free America Foundation, which is an extremely influential, not to mention expensive, public advocacy group. They're making disasterous public policy in my country.

Here's just one example.
The Governor's Sub-rosa Plot to Subvert an Election in Ohio
http://fornits.com/anonanon/Forbes/ohio/

There's much, much more. DFAF members are also involved in Drugwatch International, which seeks (w/ great success) to steer our forign policy to the task of their manic jihad against drugs that they don't sell. DFAF was very proud of their accomplishment in getting the federal government to pay the Taliban $43M to declare opium poppies to be ungodly. That was the summer before the towers came down.

Here's a google search that illustrates some of those ties.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=df ... +drugwatch

They're also behind DARE in the schools and the Safe and Drug Free Schools/Workplaces/Communities programs. They lobby for mandated public spending directly to their piss nazi corporations.

Art didn't start The Seed all by himself like he always said. He didn't invent the method and he couldn't have expanded as he did w/o federal funding through NIDA under Bobby DuPont. NIDA also funded a bunch of other Synanon based programs accross the country, just like he said he would after touring Synanon back in the late `60's.

And the plan was much more comprehensive than just warehouse and storefront groups. I think that if people understood just how crazy these people are, maybe they'd quit letting them write public policy and quit handing them public funding.

These crazy bastards were not just dreaming when they talked about turning the whole country into the Program. To a great extent, they have succeeded.

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
--Unanimous

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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2004, 01:54:00 PM »
Here's something that just landed on a discussion list today.

Quote
THAILAND'S WAR ON DRUG USERS:
THE ESTIMATE OF THE NUMBER OF EXECUTIONS
NOW PLACED AT BETWEEN 3,000 AND 5,000
http://www.actupny.org/reports/thai_support.html

Ganjawarnews: 10-8/9-4 http://tinyurl.com/3pahb
Illustrated: http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/msg1x74598.shtml

US PRAISES THAI DRUG WAR! 2500 dead the first 10 months...
http://makeashorterlink.com/?H440131B6

United States' Answer To Drug War Proves Harmful
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N261231B6

Thailand: US Grants Usd 45 Million Assistance To Thailand
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04.n1416.a02.html

* The Thai Army receives U.S. training...
* Since 1974, the U.S.  government has provided a total of over 85 million dollars
to Thailand under the bilateral assistance program for anti-narcotics...
-------
What else would they do?
The Thai's are just following through with Bushn Newtn Walters and Bennetts
avocation...

They poison hundreds of thousands with chemicals, hemp doesn't use, Thousands more on
morons hidden chemical weapons in cigarettes. Pesticide venom, Prison rape as
deterrents and poisoning pot with paraquat for disobedient kids. Scams for profits
killing citizens to push reefer madness, This is the inevitable result of Trafficking
the Büshit Ganjawar to profit his NewWeirdOdor fascist.
Peace, Love and Liberty or Büshit DEAth! ... DdC
http://boards.marihemp.com/boards/cultu ... 4/4933.gif
-------
Bush's Faustian Deal With The Taliban By Robert Scheer
Published May 22, 2001 in the Los Angeles Times ... DeJaVu!
http://www.robertscheer.com/1_natcolumn ... 052201.htm


The people who contribute to these lists, for the most part, don't know of the connections between Program founders and current drug war lunacy. I'm trying to remedy that.

To seek out the best through the whole Union, we must resort to the information which from the best of men, acting disinterestedly and with the purest motives, is sometimes incorrect.
http://laissezfairebooks.com/product.cfm?op=view&pid=FF7485&aid=10247' target='_new'> Thomas Jefferson Letter to Elias Shipman and others of New Haven, July 12, 1801.

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Offline cleveland

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« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2004, 10:36:00 AM »
OK, since Ginger has opened the door to considering this from a Policy perspective...

I am no expert here at all. However, I'll take a quick stab at this...

1. I live in an inner city neighborhood, my job has to do with neighborhood revitalization. My neighborhood is 'trendy;' i.e., suburbanites will visit our high-end restaurants and some will by and renovate houses here or new townhouses. But just adjacent to the 'gentrified' area, there are drug houses, drug dealers, hookers, the occasional shooting. Cleveland's the poorest city in America, and it shows in our poorly performing schools, lack of services, police cuts, etc.

Every couple of weeks during the summer, I spend time calling the police on kids who are 'wild in the streets' outside my door - intimidating people with stares and loud music, selling drugs, drinking, getting high. These are by and large the boys, of course. The girls hang out with the guys, and some (many) of them concieve children in their mid to late teens. Some of them have substance issues. Most houses on my street are rental units, with absentee landlords. The housing stock is falling into disrepair.

My peaceful, middle class neighbors are moving away, and not being replaced by as many younger working people. There are not many jobs for those who live here, unless you're an entrepreneur or a professional - the working-class jobs are going fast.

The suburbanites demonize the inner city poor, of course, causing further loss of services to the neighborhoods, more sprawl, more segregation, more poverty, poorere schools, etc.

2. Two most dangerous drugs - alcohol and cigarettes. Alcohol has some health benefits when consumed in moderation by adults; tobacco none (unless used as a sacriment as the native americans do). Marijuana has some negative effects on lungs and perhaps motivation and perhaps sperm counts, but most users are pretty low-key; many people slow down in early adulthood because it's hard for most of us to function in a job stoned - although I do know of one person who smokes daily, but he's manic depressive and it is far superior to other anti-depressants for him - he's self-medicating. There are other alleged health benfits too but I can't go into that. Indiginous people chew coca leaves - it's part of their culture. Refined drugs like cocaine and herion are dangerous when abused, no doubt. Some people have found positive experiences from LSD and other hallucinagenics.

Point is, people will get high, In our culture, we've turned it into an 'all or nothing' proposition, instead of honestly evaluating the pluses and minuses and being conscious about whatever we consume or put in our body.

3. My wife and I are going to have a baby. What will we tell our child about drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, etc.? I hope we will be honest, but also realizing that children's awareness is limited. I hope to preserve innocence for as long as possible. Many people in my family have struggled with alcohol use; I hope that my child won't. I also don't want my kid to be toking up in sixth grade. Again, I think honesty and awareness are the key here, without being too permissive - or totalitarian for that matter.

4. The drug war is not working, as Ginger points out. I don't think it works with a person, if you try to shame them into being straight, or with a neighborhood, or a culture or country. I think it's a shame what we are doing to other countries with a drug policies - not to mention our oil policy (another dependancy for us).

My suggestion? Legalize most drugs, moniter use, provide plenty of treatment, national health care, invest in the schools, slow sprawl, preserve the environment, push sustainable development, change the political system to encourage honesty and long-term solutions, limit the power of corporations. See what a naive liberal I proudly am!

What the seed had, and straight lacked, was a sense of community and commeraderie at it's best. Coercion for the most part was gentle, teasing and positive (in my day). Most of the graduates have turned out pretty good, judging by these postings. However, I think the lack of freedom, the 'either-or'thinking, the heirarchy, the anti-intellectualism and closed mindedness of the seed doomed it in the long term, and I'm sad to see what it spawned in straight and national drug policy. I see it as part of a big american denial system.

I'm still clarifying my thoughts on this...

Interesting to see what others think.
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ally Gator

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2004, 12:36:00 PM »
Could you please explain:  "Legalize most drugs, moniter use & slow sprawl?  Thank you
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