Turn-About Ranch, Boy on the Run, Night/Cold/Rough Country

[spirithelps]

Interesting that your daughter's name is Emily 'cause I knew an Emily at TAR.  She obviously wasn't your daughter since this was only a few months ago, but she is someone's daughter.  She was beautiful, very long black hair, the bluest eyes you've ever seen, very slim and tiny build.  

I met her at Roundy and while we were alone, with Wayne gone, she told me that she had wrestled with Wayne the night before on his overnight stay.  Just at that moment, he appeared out of the blue, from behind us and around the corner, booming, "Yes, we wrestled and I won, didn't I?"  (Wayne always reinforces to the kids that he's the only winner, and they're the biggest losers, at Roundy.)

Later that day I caught Wayne and Emily around the corner of Roundy and he was instructing her to put her hands on him.  She didn't want to do it, so he reached down and picked her hands up and placed them on his body.

Would you want your Emily being broken down, beaten into submission, and intimidated in this manner?

If your Emily was there in 1993, that was when Dave Townsend, a local person here, owned it.  He started the facility, they served good food, did things with the kids (which is sorely missing these days, bored, nothing for 'em to do, TAR strips away the negative lifestyle and replaces it with zero, zip, zilch, and these kids' minds are clean and zooming, they could be shown sooooooo many positive things to reinforce a positive lifestyle . . . oops, I forgot, they teach them how to lift bales of hay wrong for their backs, afterall it is a working ranch and how to brown nose and backstab to the top of the lists, how to hate as their ethnicity is derated, and more!).  

That was before Aspen Education Group bought it out.  It changed from being a small, locally owned and operated facility to corporate America, one of what? 50 or so facilities owned by Aspen now?  And, corporate America needs their fair share of the profits.

Yeah, so I had the Sheriff's Office, the Utah CPS office, and the Utah Licensing Board, all of 'em, sweep the sexual abuse case under the carpet, over and done with in only days.  This, in spite of another incident involving duct tape (duct tape = totally illegal in Utah) of a female student, at night, in her pajamas on a wet and cold ground at Roundy on the very night that I turned in my written report.

So be it . . . I come here to tell the truth in the hopes that prospective parents will be reading these forums.  I too am a parent, I know what parenting is about.  I know about wild and crazy kids -- I took care of the entire neighborhood 'cause none of the other parents were ever at home.  I was involved in their schools, their friends, boy/girl scouts, animals, games, shows, plays, whatever.  That's what parenting is about -- loving, teaching and being involved.


Toni

[Anonymous]

I have edited my message to correct a glaring error: My daughter Emily was at TAR in 2003, not 1993.

I am well aware of the hazards of the country around TAR, having traveled extensively through the backcountry of the southwest for many years. The country around Pine Creek is rugged, but Roundy being in the creek bottom puts people in a less exposed situation than on the rims. No, I don't feel I was unconcerned for Andys risk, he did after all put himself in harms way (again).

I am not and have never been an employee or associate of any Aspen affiliated business. I am, however a satisfied parent of a TAR graduate. I am also the adult product of a 70's wild-childhood, and I thank my lucky stars for surviving the insanity I put myself and my family through. If my folks hadn't sought and found a good alternative school I doubt I would have finished high school at all.

If there are legitimate concerns of abuse or inappropriate behavior at TAR (or any where else for that matter) they must be dilligently pursued for the sake of the children, with that I agree and I applaud your efforts. But to paint all programs or all of a particular program with a wide indiscriminate brush is counter productive. Critical terms like "brainwashing", "agrarian slave labor", etc don't serve to make a concise point or to foster institutional reform.

[Nihilanthic]

Happydad, I live in the raleigh area, and I've sent you a private message. My contact info is in my profile and in the icons below my posts.

There's a lot I want to know if you're willing to tell, and there's also a lot you need to hear.

Our nada who art in nada, nada be thy name. Thy kingdom nada, thy will be nada as it is in nada. Give us this nada our daily nada and nada us our nada as we nada our nadas and nada us into nada but deliver us from nada; pues nada. Hail nothing full of nothing, nothing is with thee.
--Ernest Hemingway, American author

[Anonymous]

To Andy's uncle:

The more BORING a child is, the more the parents,
when showing off the child, receive adulation for
being GOOD PARENTS -- because they have a TAME
CHILD-CREATURE in their house.

Frank Zappa


Sound like you have an incredibly talented, artistic, inquisitive child on your hands that needed to be challenged in life.....not re-programmed.

[Nihilanthic]

But to paint all programs or all of a particular program with a wide indiscriminate brush is counter productive. Critical terms like "brainwashing", "agrarian slave labor", etc don't serve to make a concise point or to foster institutional reform. "

All the seminars I've heard of fit into the definition of brainwashing if you know what it really is.

Also, a lot of these programs GIVE NO DETAILS AT ALL. As deborah (I think...) says, "sunshine" would do a lot to shut us up and help us sleep at night. Show what you do, show what you're DOING to them, and show they're okay, and give them a way to reach out while trapped.

Another gripe I have is that incarceration is simply over-used. Its obviously a tool to freak them out and break them down, and no there is no inherant therapy from being 'shocked'.

If all they do is lock them up, isolate them, treat them bad "shock" and "impact" them and force conformity, thats ALL IT IS! Its inhumane and doesn't actually fix them at all, it just terrifies into obedience in the short term.

If the lockup is absolutely necessary, fine. But otherwise I want to see some real help and real therapy. I really haven't yet.

I am married, not Buried !
-- Steve Webb

[spirithelps]

I've lived in the southwest for over 30 years and in Escalante for nearly 5.  I don't care how much traveling you've done in the SW, this place is not like any other in its ruggedness and treacherous terrain.  It makes no difference whatsoever where Roundy is located (which is 13 miles up a very remote canyon) since Andy had to find a way out through the canyons.  Even staff stopped looking at sunset due to the dangers of being out there at night, in the dark, in the canyons, in the rain.

I see that you also failed to mention that Andy's parents, if indeed this runner was Andy (they have them so often it's hard to say), had forewarned TAR that he would run.  I understand that TAR employees were aware of this.  Here's what went wrong:  it wasn't Andy running, that's part of the program with these kids and staff has rules that should be followed (of course TAR doesn't give any real staff training, so it's hit or miss as to which staff is working at the time how things run) -- what went wrong was that staff left him alone when they knew they weren't supposed to.  If TAR can't handle these types of kids and keep them safe when they are in their custody, then they have no business taking them in the first place.

You give Andy all of the blame for his "problems".  I see that everything is always his fault, even though he didn't have any control over his circumstances.

So why are you suddenly posting in this forum for the first time if your daughter's doing great and Andy's in jail.  Isn't it a little late for him?  Why didn't you come here before you, supposedly, brought him to TAR.  I generally do research first, not after the fact.

I too was one of those wild '70s teens.  Geez, my folks didn't send me to some unknown institution, they disciplined me themselves.  They also knew that I was just about ready to go out on my own and much of this behavior is due exactly to that independence taking hold.  So, what?  I'm over 50 today and have had a very productive life without alternative schools.  

And, using the term "school" for TAR is a misnomer.  They've got one room that qualifies as the school and their headmaster is a retired schoolteacher who falls asleep in class.  They have virtually no books in their library so I donated a set of World Book Encyclopedias and science books just so they'd have something.

I don't paint all programs with a wide indiscriminate brush.  I only talk about TAR where I have personal experience.

You should also know that since this town of 800 people has no employment at all, most employees are not at TAR willingly, they're there because it's one of only 2-3 places in town to work.

They work 10-13 hours a day without so much as a 15-minute break.  This is illegal and it puts the kids at risk because staff is tired, cranky and in a "who gives sh*t" attitude.

So, yeah, I think my work experience there with the kids for 40-60 hours a week gives me much more insight into their care than your history.  Your daughter's experiences would rank above mine, and I'm sure she didn't tell you everything.

It took me well into my adult life to remember a rape by a neighbor in my history.  Perhaps her problems are just buried now and will surface when she's 40.

Toni

[happydad]

Gee, didn't mean to ruffle anyones feathers here, just felt like the whole subject needed a little balance, something to put it into context.

I read a lot of heavy criticism of TAR in this thread. Is it possible that I am somehow the only parent who feels they received the help they sought in the way they expected by taking a child there?

I still feel strongly that parents need resources to turn to when a parent/child situation is out of control, and programs like TAR serve a vital purpose when well and ethically run. As I've said before, there are certainly some lousy programs but TAR is the only one I have personal experience with and I have no reason to believe that it is in that category.

Working towards institutional and industry reform is a good thing, even a vital need, but being presumptive and self righteous makes your case weaker not stronger.

[Deborah]

The subject needs balance???   :roll:

The best and most useful thing we could do is shut down the gulags for kids and create facilities to treat disabled parents, troubled parents, frightened and irrational parents.

[cherish wisdom]

I think Toni hit on something that every parent needs to be aware of. When she reported the abuse and sexual abuse of a minor to the authorities in UTAH - they did nothing.  This is a major problem. She was a staff member and an eye-witness to this.  The facility could not discredit her as a lying, manipulative, disturbed teenager.  She was a credible,competent, honest adult employee. Still - they did NOTHING. This was a serious matter - something that waranted not only and investigation - but criminal charges.

There are major problems within the state of Utah. There are hundreds of these youth programs scattered in remote areas. Politicians expect and accept political contributions (bribes) from owners and administrators of these facilities. As a result there are few if any rules or regulations to protect the children.  

Do you think it's safe to send your child to a program in a state that will fail to protect them and their interests in the event something does go wrong?  

I'm glad your a happy dad and that you believe your child grew from this experience. You need to realize that others were not so fortunate.  You need to realize that many, including myself, have made reports of the outrageous abuse experienced and witnessed by their children.  AND NOTHING was done.  So that is why many of us are here - writing and warning and pleading that parents beware of this state - Utah and others - where children are just sitting ducks for abuse - because there are few rules and regulations to protect them from abuse and the authorities do little to nothing when reports of abuse surface.

This is a major problem. UTAH is a beautiful state and the people are warm and friendly.  Unfortunately there is a dirty secret that most find out about when it is too late. The government is corrupt when it comes to this teen industry.  They care more about the money brought into the state (and into their political war chests) than they do about these mentally ill and troubled youth.  Many have suffered abuse of all kinds and several have died.  

Look at what the state has done.  Look at the punishments that were given to those who starved and tortured Aaron Bacon to death.  Only one served jail time - 3 months.  

WE want parents to do their research first.  Too many are desparate and most don't have the time to do what is required of them - PARENT THEIR CHILD.  

for it is a truth, which the experience of all ages has attested, that the people are commonly most in danger when the means of insuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.    
--Alexander Hamilton

[Anonymous]

Happydad I think you put it best when you "shared your experience" you are a self admitted ex-wild child. You amazingly grew up fine without the intervention of any lockdown facility.

In other words you grew-up eventually. Imagine that?! :idea:

The Graduate

[Nihilanthic]

happydad, something that a lot of parents don't know yet is that these programs have a long history of LYING and manipulating. They have a long history of makin the child never trust the parent - and a lot of abused people don't ever want to say it anyway. After being told PERSONALLY  that they were beaten and raped, and mentally tortured in those stupid seminars, forced to live in squallid, unhygenic locations, poorly fed if at all, and all of the horror stories I've read from both surviving and DEAD children, you must understand how me or someone else here would feel.

Something else you need to realize is when you are emotionally stressed out and at your lowest it is SO easy to manipulate you. When a parent feels so strongly that they've failed their kid, or they need help and they're so hopeless and frustrated, a program seems like the magic fix! The good and bad places alike go after parents at their lowest point, and keep you emotional instead of collected and intellectual. That, by the way, is what the seminars use to manipulate and brainwash. You really should read the accounts of people who went through some of these seminars.

I hope to god that TAR hasn't done anything to your kid but I simply have no faith in any program anymore. When they're out in the woods how are they going to get through to anyone? They have to go through the same people that would be abusing them! What Toni says HAS to be kept in consideration - and because nobody knows what they did with (or to) Emily to 'fix' her, we're going to be very questioning of everything and everyone.

I too am for regulation and making sure there is contact between the child and parent. Regulation would fix a lot of this. I myself am not out here to accuse or question you, and you probably don't know all that we know (another problem...) but you HAVE to realize there isn't any trust anymore! there isn't  any faith in the facilities or the government, and they HAVE and CONTINUE TO manipulate parents, and terrify children so much  they never even tell their parents.

All I'm trying to do is help reach out and connect the necessary people, help in any way I can, and collect all the information there is, because knowlege is power, and thats the last thing the bad places want to give out. I personally am not out to question or demean you, but we have had brainwashed parents come through here before. I've even spoken to a child who was brainwashed by those damned seminars in WWASPS facilities.

If nothing but good did happen, I'm glad, but some people will have a hard time believing it now. I'm not out to judge or attack YOU, I'm sure you had your childs interests in mind! But, I am very accusational about the industry. You're just the only one who would answer anyones questions.

He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave.
--Author: Sir William Drummond