Author Topic: FORMER CEDU STAFF  (Read 30693 times)

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Offline Son Of Serbia

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« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2004, 10:19:00 AM »
Randy Nelson, Brett Newman, Jodi Wolfe, Justin Short, Kevin Wagner, Ryan Alworth, Anuka Mikelson, David Noval, Crystal Gantt, Kim Krodel, Jeremy Purcel, Laura Dupree, John Peterson, Jeff McGuiness, Anthony Stevens, Ilyana Mercado, Sharie Ogress, David Jarmen, Sean Daly, Justin Barney, Juan Soto, Anthony Edwards, Leslie Bernstein, Carly Shields, Ben Shapiro, Marie Villarie, Jeter Krutchfield, Rob Nielson, Trevor Cook, Gina Marsen, Anna-Bell Johnson, Li Ping Kuan, Violet Hanson, Michelle Weinstien, Alia Weiner, Gene Jasper,.....

That's 37 Names that I can remember from the top of my head, Ottawa 5.  Thirty-seven names of kids who attended & dissappeared from Cedu-RS during my stay there (Dec 28, 1990-July 6, 1992).
Add myself to the list and that makes 38. Thirty eight Kids that I can name, who disappeared in the year and a half that I spent at Cedu-Rs. And there are many more names that I can't remember
Ottawa 5, MANY MORE!

Many of these names are Kids who were in my peer group, the majority of them split repeatedly until they finally got away and were never heard from again.  The others refused to succumb to Cedu's Mind Fucking tactics, and were shipped off to various mental hospitals, wilderness survival camps, and lock-up facilities.

I just gave you 38 people who no doubt feel severely wronged by Cedu, that's 38 people who I can name! And I saw what I described happen to a lot more kids, but it was 12 years ago, and I can't remember them all.  Perhaps Bryan remembers more.

I'm not the only one here with a list of names Ottawa5.  Every poster who comes here has their own list of names, we just haven't found all of the people yet.  There Are thousands of us Ottawa5, and YES, WE DO REPRESENT THE MAJORITY OF FORMER STUDENTS AT CEDU SCHOOLS.  

Still not convinced Ottawa5?  Well, you don't have to take my word for it.

HEAR YEA! HEAR YEA!

  I HEARBYE CALL ON ALL OF YOU FORMER CEDU STUDENTS WHO VISIT THIS THREAD TO POST YOUR OWN LIST OF NAMES OF KIDS YOU SAW BEING FUCKED OVER AND THEN DISAPPEARED FROM WHICHEVER CEDU PROGRAM YOU WERE IN.

Lets show Ottawa5 once and for all just how many Cedu Victims we are talking about!

.
[ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-09-13 08:50 ]
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Offline blownawaytheidahoway

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« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2004, 01:41:00 PM »
Only Kids I remember whom I know Didn't finish the program at RMA. This will only be about %10 of actual number:
Vanessa Wahab, Somebody Diamond, Bill Nelson, Pete Matesi, Tom Van Derav?, Ed Sparkman,  

I was gonna list so many and it's just faces...It has just been way too long. Sorry, I'm sure more will come to me and I'll post them, it is strange.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Life is a very wonderful thing.\' said Dr. Branom... \'The processes of life, the make- up of the human organism, who can fully understand these miracles?... What is happening to you now is what should happen to any normal healthy human organism...You are being made sane, you are being made healthy.
     \'That I will not have, \' I said, \'nor can understand at all. What you\'ve been doing is to make me feel very very ill.\'
                         -Anthony Burgess
                      A Clockwork Orange

Offline Son Of Serbia

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« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2004, 02:03:00 PM »
Hey its me SOS again.  I just started a new thread entitled "a call to all, read this thread."

Anyone who has a list, post it there.  I want to tally all of the names and come up with a total. Whoever you can remember, POST IT!
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2004, 02:37:00 PM »
You want something like this? http://fornits.com/anonanon/revoke.htm

We are a one party country. Half of them call themselves Democrats and the other half call themselves Republicans. All the good ideas come from the Libertarians.
--Hugh Downs

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline Son Of Serbia

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« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2004, 04:19:00 PM »
Yes Antigen, once we have all of the names, we could compile a list like this for cedu, and post it somewhere for potential future and current Cedu parents to read. That's an excellent idea!
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2004, 09:09:00 PM »
O5, This is where you and I have a fundamental difference of opinion. It appears that you are attempting to expand the definition of BM to include instruction and teaching. Way off base.

I do not believe that learning to use the toilet is BM. (No pun intended  :lol: ). Unless you are issuing rewards and punishments for performance.  As you may notice, I don?t care for the word ?train?. It makes me think of animals, particularly horses, where the objective is to break the will. My kids learned to use the toilet by observing other human beings use it. Same with utensils, same with listening.  I consider learning by observing to be teaching, modeling; and more desirable. I disagree with the belief that kids have to be molded. You seem to discount their intelligence and ability to learn through observation and practice, without rewards and punishments. As far as I can tell parents resort to molding, or modifying, when they want the kid to perform on their time table. Because they want to take pride in the fact that their child was ?trained? to shit in the toilet before they knew what shit was. And that?s not 60s, recycled thinking. It?s Montessori.

I said the parents role is to teach by modeling, guiding. Although you seem to see this as a ?problem with me?, I don?t. Some good comes from each generation- the 60s was not an era to be ignored- it?s ignorant to throw out the baby with the bath water. And weren?t those ?no limits? parents following some pop-psychologists? recommendations? Scared shitless of emotionally scaring their kids- so swung to being overly permissive- not wanting to be like their own authoritarian and puritanical parents. Extremes create extreme reactions. That?s the crux of that lesson.

Just as well face what O5?  Don?t attempt to speak for me or imply that I have said something I didn?t.
I never suggested that I wouldn?t stop a child from running into the street, or from striking a sibling, or prevent the fatal consequence of eating poison. Quiet the contrary. What is your agenda to suggest otherwise? I did suggest that it would be beneficial if parents didn?t rush to overprotect and rescue, thereby robbing the child of valuable developmental lessons- the kind that ONLY true natural consequences teaches- AND, if the consequence would not result in injury that would require medical attention. In large part, it teaches those important lessons of ?limits?. Some kids are so overprotected that they don?t know their own limitations, much less those of society. They are not allowed to make mistakes, but are rather subjected to molding by parents and society- functioning under the false belief that reasoning and persuasion can prevent experimentation- can circumvent the human drive to learn through experience, or circumvent the underlying emotion(s) driving the destructive behavior.  Hence, teens catching themselves on fire, jumping off roofs, etc- yet another extreme reaction to authorities attempt to control rather than guide. This thinking also wrongly assumes that a person?s ?destructive? behavior is a result of errant genes, mental illness, or maliciousness; never, or rarely does it consider that it is a result of not having one?s needs met. Psychology scrambles to find some elusive excuse, when its so plain and simple, short of brain damage. But they do accurately recognize the limitations of parents. So, instead we get labels, drugs, and BM facilities- the quick and effortless fixers.

My observation is that we don?t learn through osmosis. Your fear based story (persuasion) is not going to stop me from doing anything that I am driven to do. We may agree that what I am driven to do is destructive, and if so, from that point we might explore why I am driven to do it,  and proceed to dismantle the underlying cause. You are not going to persuade a two yr old not to climb a tree if everything in his being is driving him to do so. He?ll just do it behind your back, be anxious about getting to the top before you notice, and probably get hurt. But, you can stand under the tree, prepared to catch him when he falls. Experience- the absolute very best teacher. The problem with most parents, that?s just too damned inconvenient. And don?t confuse this to mean letting them get hit by a car. I think you know we?re both more intelligent than that.

After reading a few reviews, I?m not interesting in investing in Postman?s book
http://www3.sympatico.ca/ersatz-sprocke ... rance.html
http://www.rememberingneilpostman.com/000077.html
http://interact.uoregon.edu/MediaLit/ml ... rance.html
I agree with some of this author?s thinking, but for me, I think he has a faulty beginning assumption. The media and TV are not solely responsible for the ills of society, OR the Disappearance of Childhood. Afterall, there was/is ample ?bad? information in books as well. TV just brought the thoughts, beliefs, and values written in those books into our homes on a daily basis. Books, traditional literature and schooling are not a panacea. It?s simply not that black and white. It could be argued that TV, depending on what one is watching, could actually be a very positive thing-  taking us back to a time of oral tradition-  which I?m aware doesn?t have much value amongst many academians. That may be an explanation for why so many people are more drawn to TV than reading. They?d rather hear the spoken word than isolate with the written word. I?d much prefer to hear my grandmother tell one of her fascinating non-fiction stories about REAL people, than to read. or be read, a boring ?approved? children?s book.  They were boring when I was a kid, and I refused to subject my kids to most of the classics. Speaking of which, were no more than adult entertainment passed off as children?s books and nursery rhymes. Fuck a bunch of mother goose. Some of the shit was down right morbid. And how can a child deal with death, when society has removed him/her from the process? Relegated it to be something you read about, but don?t experience. How is it helpful to talk about it in books when they don?t talk about it at home, they don?t see it, or touch it, experience it. Rescue people from dealing with their dead, rescue them from their grieving process, rescue them from burying their dead. Rescue, rescue, rescue. There?s a damned lot of conditioning going on, creating emotionally weak human beings, who have lost all sense of what ?living? is.

Parents need the courage to be real and honest with their kids. The courage to not control from fear. The courage to listen and respond.

I have no idea what you are attempting to say here, ?Too much of the way of thinking that I find myself ascribing to people like you seems, by its very nature, to undermine that normal parental instinct toward love and discipline.? If you care to be specific, we can further discuss this. Otherwise, it will fall by the wayside as another attempt to misrepresent me.

That?s my rant. If you have a different opinion you are entitled to express it. I am not interested in hearing any further elitist evaluations of my thinking and opinions. Let's see if you can meet the challenge.
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Offline shanlea

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« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2004, 09:32:00 PM »
The thing I don't get is why Ottawa thinks the "confrontation" therapy is helpful.  The only confrontation therapy I saw was pretty friggin' abusive, malignant, and even untrue.  Badgering to submission to either strip your spirit or coerce you to either exaggerate your history or even lie.  What kind of guidance is that? I can respect DIRECT talk and serious inquiry, as well as a nurturing of your strengths and positive feelings, but not the screaming abusive CONFRONTATION where you are badgered to scream at everyone... Even your own self.  Primal BS scream therapy.  

Anyone remember "running your thinking" etc.  You are basically--under careful, intent, hopeful observation--supposed to put your head toward the floor and scream at you thinking.  If you can get some snot flying and even some vomit spewing, a gold star for you.  

Also, the staff making everything a sin. Thus if you smiled at the opposite sex, they tore you a new one.  HELLO?! I was sixteen!! That's what we do!!!!  Don't make normal innocent urges a crime for fuck's sake.  Thereafter, it took me a long time to get over thinking that being even a trifle flirtatious was tantamount to sluttiness.
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hanlea

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2004, 10:27:00 PM »

I was just reading the posted listed in the link below, and there was one that really caught my attention.

This post relates to a woman who felt like the pain would never end, and she comitted suicide.   The post reads:

In a court deposition Nancy stated that she was taken into the intake room because she refused to admit to having used drugs. Once inside the room the seven people surrounded her and screamed obscenities at her and spat on her. This is called the Bomb Squad in Straight. They screamed that she was fat and ugly, she alleges, and not pretty like her sister. A. N. stood there, she testified, and watched as they bent her finger back. And back. And back until it touched her arm. That's when it snapped! Imagine being self conscious about your weight and having people scream at you that you're fat and ugly, and not pretty like your sister as they break your finger! On October 15, 2000 the Richmond, Virginia Police found her body outside her apartment. She had plummeted, mysteriously, from her fourth floor apartment window being killed instantly. On Nancy's wrist, above her index finger, was a lone tattoo. It reads DISCIPLINE!

I am not sure what to say after reading that post except ... FUCK ALL THESE PROGRAMS!!!

If there is a hell,  I hope that is a special place those people who hurt Nancy.

May all the Nancy's find the much sought after peace.


Quote
On 2004-09-13 11:37:00, Antigen wrote:

"You want something like this? http://fornits.com/anonanon/revoke.htm"
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2004, 11:46:00 PM »
Shanlea,
Hear me out before you tune me out.  I have a different perspective of Primal Therapy. I think it is a valid therapy for anyone who is drawn to it, but like any ?therapy? it can be bastardized and misapplied by ignorant people.

When someone has been traumatized, systematically abused and tortured, and silenced, they often can?t just put it behind them and move on, as witnessed by many survivors. Many go through talk therapy and ultimately end up on a chemical soup of drugs to suppress their symptoms?RAGE. This is one reason I so highly value the forums at Fornits. It provides a venue for survivors to vent til their heart?s content ( or their heart is free), in whatever form or fashion they deem appropriate, without judgment or critique or censorship. Some people need to ?relive? those experiences and vent their resentments about the person/people who wronged them before they can move on. They can?t ?just do it?.  I tend to believe that those who can?t ?just do it? are far more likely to genuinely get over it in the long run.

It?s like the scene in ?Sea Biscuit?, when the young man is asked in sincerity ?who are you angry at??  He?d been carrying a chip for many years. That anger was misdirected at anyone who vaguely resembled the perpetrator. The perpetrator in his case was ultimately the economic crash- who ya gonna vent at? Some of it got laid on his parents. In the movie, the writer suggests that people heal by just deciding to let it go. He goes to the bridge and releases his past. That?s all nice and all, but it doesn?t work that way for the majority of people. I?ve known people who orchestrated similar rituals, or made agreements to let it go, but it continued to manifest in their daily lives. Witness the masses dependent on 12 steps. So, I personally find value in going directly to the person and venting all the venom you feel. Short of that, do it in therapy with a therapist who is not afraid to witness your full out rage. When done well, it?s like the relief you feel after vomiting when you?re sick and writhing with pain. Or, taking a good shit after 3 or 4 days of constipation. Or having someone open the car door that you have slammed on your finger.

Now, is primal therapy appropriate for teens? NO- not the way you described it. It could be if done thoughtfully and carefully. What you described is a bastardized attempt at primal therapy. Here?s my guess. Someone experienced or witnessed a primal session, or read a book, and adopted it as part of the program?s ?bag of tricks?, with no real understanding of the process. They, like many ignorant people, believe that if they can make the kid LOOK like they are having a primal session, that they are indeed having one. Wrong!!! Like many people believe that if they can persuade or otherwise stop a person from crying that they have healed the persons grief. Har!! If what you described wasn?t so damned wrong, it would be hilarious. The depth of their ignorance is astounding. My son went to a high dollar TBS on the east coast. I saw numerous, equally ignorant attempts to subject teens to therapy that was not age appropriate or facilitated in any useful way. Some of what they did violated counseling ethics.

PT is totally useless when contrived and/or one is coached on how it should look, or given any other direction or suggestion. It is most useful when it happens spontaneously, like if you were talking with a very close friend and went into some old memories and let yourself go with it?. And then screamed all the resentment you had for that person. Resentment that you were forced to ?stuff? when the abuse was happening. I?ve done it. Not the genuine article, but a similar therapy. I love it. Would I require anyone to do it, especially teens, and the way the program is doing it. Unequivocally, NO!! They should be jailed for the torture they are subjecting kids to under the guise of ?therapy?. Fucking lunatics. Misguided money mongers.

And, I should say that there may be some people that conduct Primal Therapy as you described it. That is not my understanding of it.

Hey, here?s one for ya Ottawa. How?s this for ?Disappearance of Childhood?? What do you think about the ?therapy? Shanlea described?  Appropriate for teens? Or even adults for that matter? I spose it was another of those isolated incidents huh? My how the isolated incidents are adding up to be a long string of consistent abuse.
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2004, 08:09:00 AM »
I understand what you are saying.  And in reality, if primal therapy is a good way to vent then let it out. What CEDU did I call primal BULLSHIT therapy because as you said, they bastardized it and seem to think that people screaming obscenities at you is good therapy.  Also, you hit the nail on the head when you said that it doesn't work if its contrived.  There was so much pressure to have a screaming snot spewing session--you weren't really working hard unless you did.  I always felt prssure by the staff to have a total primal brak down to advance--but everything felt so facilitated in that joint that it was hard for me to conjure up one ounce of authentic emotion in those raps.  (And I cry at AT&T commercials for God's sake!) They want you to cry over the story script they give you--there is no opportunity or sufficient trust to let you release your feelings when you are ready.
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Offline shanlea

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« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2004, 08:10:00 AM »
The above post was mine.
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hanlea

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2004, 12:53:00 PM »
***they bastardized it and seem to think that people screaming obscenities at you is good therapy.

That should not have happened and is not useful, as you well know. Again, what I did was not PT, but very similar, and no one would ever have screamed obscenities at another person. Absolutely unnecesary and serves no useful purpose.

**Also, you hit the nail on the head when you said that it doesn't work if its contrived. There was so much pressure to have a screaming snot spewing session--you weren't really working hard unless you did. I always felt prssure by the staff to have a total primal brak down to advance--but everything felt so facilitated in that joint that it was hard for me to conjure up one ounce of authentic emotion in those raps.

Yeh, I've seen this before with unskilled or overly invested facilitators in various therapies. They are not skilled enough to help facilitate a release so they try to force the person to emote. It's more about their need to feel important or successful (effective). Contrived emoting is useless and damaging. Years ago I attended a therapy group. The counselor was big on 'anger release work'. I was pretty damned angry at the time, so thought I'd try it. He continually prompted me to 'get in touch' with it. What I didn't know then, was that I couldn't get in touch with it because I didn't FEEL it at that moment, sitting in that new group of strangers. If he'd let me talk about my situation long enough, perhaps I would have. So, feeling pressure 'to perform', I tried to 'make' myself feel it. I slammed a bat into a pillow, and made sounds at his promptly, but had no emotional release. I did have a reaction- I had a seizure on the way home. Something that NEVER happened in future experiences when I had a genuine release of emotion. I have a-typical epilepsy, so judging by that experience, I would guess that a forced or contrived release is damaging to the nervous system. Contrarily, a genuine release is extremely beneficial.

***They want you to cry over the story script they give you--there is no opportunity or sufficient trust to let you release your feelings when you are ready.

Only ACTORS can cry on demand. And that's what I feel they turn out at these programs.
Sounds like another story I heard about their techniques, may have been your's, can't remember. But, it was something about role modeling a character. Again, a potentially good therapy, when executed by a skilled, caring person. Damaging the way the program does it.

I'd like to have a list of the different therapies used, detailing specifically how they were executed. I would like to present this to some of my PhD friends and have them comment about it. This should also be a focus point in any lawsuit. Is their so-called 'therapy' useful or actually abusive.
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Offline blownawaytheidahoway

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« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2004, 03:54:00 PM »
There was a huge pressure to perform. I mean the snot flying, real tears, burst blood vessels in the eyeballs, gut wrenching screaming like bloody murder if you were walking around outside the raps. And if you didn't or resisted because you weren't feeling it that day that's when they really thought you needed a good working over. "Your closed off! You're numb! Get off of your ass you piece of shit! Let's hear what's going on!"
If I had a dollar for every time I was being "too headsy", "too intellectual", I would be much wealthier today. After over a year of being trained that to scream  and cry taking care of feelings is the ONLY way to avoid being punished, you learn to act. You unlearn what you should feel under "normal" circumstances. You do anything to make the screaming insults and obsenities at you stop. Including try to turn the indictments on someone else. By the time I was an older student I was a master at this.
In fact exploring raps in my recent thoughts is so far one of the most difficult things I've had to do. Going back and make myself experience some of this shit again.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Life is a very wonderful thing.\' said Dr. Branom... \'The processes of life, the make- up of the human organism, who can fully understand these miracles?... What is happening to you now is what should happen to any normal healthy human organism...You are being made sane, you are being made healthy.
     \'That I will not have, \' I said, \'nor can understand at all. What you\'ve been doing is to make me feel very very ill.\'
                         -Anthony Burgess
                      A Clockwork Orange

Offline CEDU IS A CULT

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« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2004, 05:52:00 PM »
I'd like to believe I was only acting.  Maybe I was.  But I was acting so good, I believed it myself.
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Offline blownawaytheidahoway

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« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2004, 12:12:00 AM »
It's not that we were all acting, after a while the message isn't intellectual or emotional anymore. It just becomes reflex. Break down quick so the abuse won't last too long, but if you "break down" too soon you will be accused of trying to get off the hot seat dishonestly and will be subsequently punished with writing assignments and work details.
It's just the same that starting from the Truth disclosures where you are taught to one up and to lie (get rewarded)it becomes part of your identity from there after. The actual "truth" is lost in years of convincing yourself how terrible you really would be without the program.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Life is a very wonderful thing.\' said Dr. Branom... \'The processes of life, the make- up of the human organism, who can fully understand these miracles?... What is happening to you now is what should happen to any normal healthy human organism...You are being made sane, you are being made healthy.
     \'That I will not have, \' I said, \'nor can understand at all. What you\'ve been doing is to make me feel very very ill.\'
                         -Anthony Burgess
                      A Clockwork Orange