Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

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GregFL:
One of the reasons I love when new people come here is I always learn new things.

"homo Superior"  Is what Art was calling you guys eh?  When I was there I never remember hearing that, but his 'Seed army' philosophy was in full swing as was the very cultic declaration that we were fullfilling destiny to change the world and save america. I bought into it for only a short while then sat there for my remaining time totally in fear that my free-will would be found out and I would be started over. I was never more relieved in my life or anytime since when they called me out and muttered those magic words..."greg .., STAND-UP...You are off your program". I remember getting weak in the knees and almost passing out, and it wasn't from pride, it was more related to a bird, being held in captiviy, getting to fly away again for the first time.  


"I was made to feel like the Seed people were more real, that Art's experiences in life were more relevant than mine - that he was a hero, that he had succeeded in society yet removed himself from it so he could be with us."


This was a myth Art built around himself, that he was making unlimited money as a comic and sacrificed personally, professionally and financially to "save us kids". The St Pete Times had the savy to actually check this claim out, and according to them he was making the equivalent of $3 grand per year filling in at the playboy club in miami and living on a boat.

His financial success at the Seed was tremendous..one only has to look at his public financial holdings to understand. The whole time he was reaping this financial bonanza he was holding himself out as a martyr.  This is a formula repeated over and over in our society by people that rise to power in small exclusive groups (cults).


Your post is briliant. Looking forward to more.

[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-08-31 11:13 ]

GregFL:
Speaking of Sex and the Seed...three personal things immediately come to mind.

1) on the day I entered I hadn't even hit puberty. All the older post pubescent guys telling me "i love you", putting their arms around me, sleeping in close proximity to me...it all felt like sexual abuse to me and was terrifying.

2) Guys rap was terrifying and I believe the sole purpose was to get you to admit sexually personal things to use against you. I remember this one guy, stood up and admitted to a homosexual experience in the "privacy" of guys rap. It seemed real important to get it off his chest.  Later that night they stood him up and group and called him all kinds of degrading names, told him if he didn't make it in the seed he would be raped every night in prison, etc. etc. This went on  for hours and he disappeared shortly after that. Of course, Those that disapeared were never to be spoke of,  and I often wondered what happened to him, how traumatized he was by sharing his innermost secret only to have it used against him by 700 kids in a degrading and humiliating fashion.

3) I hit puberty one night during my third month or so of the Seed. I gotta say this distracted me somewhat from my mission to save the world...I had more pressing issues to deal with. :grin:

cleveland:
I think this forum is a very powerful tool. Those who fail to understand the past are destined to repeat it, as someone once said.

I have read some of the postings and I feel that I have good, but incomplete memories to share. I am not sure about 'naming names' because perhaps some people are not comfortable being 'outed,' on the other hand I am really curious about different people and will use first name, last initial if that's OK. It appears from what I've read that some of the core of the Seed when I was there, '78 through '86, are still living in the Ft. Lauderdale area and perhaps moniter this site. Hello to you all, I still Love You! Ha. Indeed I do.

The question of whether the Seed 'saved my life' or hurt me is an interesting question. I guess I am inclined to think that I took a lot away from the experience, although some of it is NOT what the staff wanted me to take. Here goes:
An unwillingness to pretend to be someone I'm not
An understanding of just how gullible I am - how anyone can be
How much we all need and want to be loved
A willingness to work hard, and do things I don't necessarily want to do. So much of what I did day to day at the Seed was hard for me and took a lot of self-discipline, so I did get that!
I didn't have a drink for about a year after I left the Seed - that first taste of wine was mightly sweet. At the same time, half of my immediate family is in AA or struggles with drinking, so it's a tendancy I am aware of. I see it as avery pleasure has a price - be aware of it - all things in moderation. This goes for getting high too. I think drugs should be legalized and put more money in REAL treatment. With kids the hard thing is that society lacks structure, and that's what I was looking for at the Seed.

OK, what else did I get? I learned that it is OK to be totally outside of society - walking around arm in arm with your oldcomer, telling people you love them, and telling druggies to 'fuck off' gives you that. Hey it's fun to be an outsider! But I also learned that even outsiders have strict codes of conformity with each other.

I have returned to my pre-Seed idealism in many ways. Once I left, and rejoined the mainstream, I realized just how many great people are out here, trying to live a good life and be a good part of society. Being really close to people at the Seed but not being really honest - inhibiting everything 'non-Seed' about me, has given me a strong BS radar while at the same time I am aware how easily I can deceive myself.

Other things? I was really really depressed when  I entered the Seed and for seven years I was NOT allowed to give into it. So I did learn to repress it. It came out again strongly once I left, and I think that while I was not 'depressed' when I was in I was super anxious all the time. I had panic attacks when I was at the Seed which I never spoke about because I was a defective Seedling. After I left I worked really hard to deal with and understand who I was, instead of papering over it with slogans like 'You're Not Alone Anymore.'

After I left the Seed I did a lot of things I really wanted to do. Went to Europe - graduated from college - went to art school - learned how to play the piano - got a girlfriend! Time has passed so quickly. I used to mark my 'post Seed' aniversary. I remember when I was out for seven years, as long as I was in. Now I am 45 years old, and 1986, when I left, is closing in on 20 years ago. So hard to believe. I am now ten years younger than Art was when I went in.

People I remember: there was Steve H. and his sister, Nancy. He was 35 when I lived with him. Steve had a great sense of humor. Ray K., I've seen posts elsewhere, has apparently died. Ray left the Seed after he and Laura (they were both staff) married, without Art's approval. His brother Bob married Libby? Wow. John Perloff married Kathy - KP? from Cleveland. She was really a sweet girl. John G. from Cleveland was married and they had a child. Then there was Randy - he played guitar and had a great voice. He was also married to a Seed woman. I worked with him in the family print shop - also at this place was Larry from Cleveland, who split days before I did, and he'd been around longer than I had. Seth, who worked for Sears - Art gave him a lot of leeway; he was kind of an outsider, and loved music, but didn't do much Seed stuff outside of exude a kind of 'I've been straight forever' vibe. There was Fred, Cliff's brother, who was Jr. staff. Brad from Georgia, who was a gifted athlete, nice guy, and part of the inner circle (as were many of the people I recall, since by '86 you were either in the circle or near it); there was Julio and Mandy, we'd had an influx of Cubans in the later years.

Does anyone remember Bob? He had been a big part of things when I came to Florida in '78. Very charismatic, I lived in his apt. in Plantation. He was friends with Robert and had shot himself in the chest with a shotgun pre-Seed, which gave him lots of cred. His big thing was talking about how he used to 'lay and play' and I guess he did 'cause he split when I was there which was one of my first indications that all was not right at the Seed 'cause why would such an insider split? Then there was Nona Z., a sometime staff member who was also in and out. It seemed at the end that there was a group of long-time insiders who kind of flirted with the outside world. I guess the rest of us weren't strong enough to face temptation. Maybe it's like the Rumspringer the Amish go through, when they are allowed to go crazy for a while before they commit to the Amish life. Anyway, that always bugged me, because I was very literal and observant in my Seed-ness, without ever making it to the inner circle.

I really wanted to be a staff member. That seemed like the ultimate of cool for me, I am so embarrased to say. Thank god I never did.

In the end, it was all about being cool, wasn't it? Just like the outside world.

GregFL:
There has been some talk of the "boxing ring" in the cleveland seed.  This was told to me by someone who was there, but we did not have it in St Pete.

It is interesting because it was also done at Elan and several other synanon spinoffs.

You got any recollection of this?

Shame you don't remember Evan because he was there when the Ohio Seed closed down. He was only 14 or so at the time.

cleveland:
I do remember talk of boxing in the Cleveland Seed. There was a tall, skinny black kid who was supposed to be really good at it. I remember he wanted to be an entertainer, and that he would do a modern dance routine to "Blackbird" ("Pack up all my cares and woe, here I go, singing low").

I do remember Evan from the Cleveland Seed. Also Wade, Eric and his sister, Jim A., my oldcomer, Wayne, another oldcomer, John G., Scott, Terri, Patty, LeeAnn, many others.

In Cleveland, I went home with these guys. I still remember how my legs were shaking when I walked into the house on Clague road. I remember one of the guys had made hotdogs or hamburgers on the grill, "specially for me." I remember sitting around the table, I had no idea what to say. I was struggling with myself because the whole thing seemed unreal; do you remember what it was like to be surrounded by a group, and each one has a turn telling their story, each one 'badder' then the next ("I did quaaludes, darvon, darvocet, coke, pot and alcohol, and I was days from trying heroin, and I just know, I was on my way to prison 'cause I was already selling drugs,") etc. etc. And then I'd say something, and immediately someone would say, "I can relate to that," and take off with their story. All this for hours and hours and with so much intensity, the conversation never flagging and everyone staring at you and telling you they loved you, to top it all off. Part of the indoctrination.

Anyway, I'd love to hear from some other Cleveland/Ft. Lauderdale people. I see that a lot of people read this, lurking I guess.

I get the feeling that some people are still under the influence of Art. Whatever! Tell your story people. Who cares if you spent some time in an obscure 1970s mind control experiment decades ago! Are you running for Congress? Mitch, Jim, Ginger, Cookie, and all of you I spent those years with, hope you are well. We were all kids just trying to make sense of a crazy world, looking for leadership. It wasn't the Hitler youth, it just used some of the same techniques!

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