Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

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pigeon:
I am not afraid, despite my user name.  My real name is Amy Brandt.  I was put into the cleveland seed when I was twelve, I had smoked pot but never been high.  It took me about nine months to graduate after which I never went back.  Evan was in there after me, I think, I never knew him but he went to the same school as I did. It sounds like you came in quite a bit after I graduated cause I was long gone when the seed left town.  I was so happy it was gone!

A sibling following an older seedling sibling into the program, regardless of, lack of drug use, became an increasingly common story during the time I was there.  I don't know, but I can't imagine there was ever such thing as turning a possible seedling away, "sorry, your not a druggy you don't need this." Never everybody needed it!

Really nice to read posts from someone that was in Cleveland like me.

I remember that building too.  Seems so appropriate that it once was an orphanage.  I remember that there were so many room,  the place had about ten times more space than they needed. In all the time I was there I was still being taken into some new room or other for a rap.  A room that I had somehow never seen before. I think it added to my sense of powerlessness-I never even knew the building.

 I always wondered; If they had so much room why newcomers didn't just stay there at night, Why did they choose such an enormous building, because they expected to fill it or because it was so fortress like?
amy

Anonymous:
thank you soooo much - i was there and I left in the after being vicously told off in a chicks rap- I decided I had finally had enough- The crazy thing is we all perpetuated the same lies to each other and ourselves. It was one endless cycle we kept ourselves in check nad repressed emotionally, intellectually and ofcourse sexually by condemning each other to the same lives of monotany. What torture it must have been for the guys to watch us in our bikinis[homemade!!!] playing hours of football on the beach- I actually liked playing, though e always had to let Art win- and i had to stop short of sacking him evry game while bob would get pummled by Patty... Okay - so did cookie end up back on the front row that must have been after I left.. I remember roger leaving- that really threw me. John Perloff married Cindy not Kathy{KP} she ran away as well. Did Nona Z. return she was my oldcomer and i was crushed when she left. I also lived with ginger she ws amazingly funny - I know everyone you mentioned. Mr. Gator-
I hope you get my seperate email....

cleveland:
Got it! Good to hear from you. I seem to be having trouble with my email today though, so if you don't get anything today send me a new message - I really want to compare notes on our experience off-line.

But I just have to say, the post above really brings back so many thoughts and feelings. It was a monotonous, controlled life, but the people, like you said, were so great. So we were living a lie but it seemed for a while like the compromises were worth it - just like anything else in life you sometimes choose to overlook things or smooth over the rough spots - but the price was too great for me and you too. I seem to remember you getting told off about something - I remember you as kind of an independent person - and I seem to have this memory of you looking upset. I've lost the memory of you leaving though, and I forgot that Roger had left - he was a great guy. Didn't it suck to have people you care about, telling you they love you, also spouting bullshit about 'getting into your head' if you had an independent thought or 'take your head out of the gutter' if you were attracted to someone? Sometimes I'd think, what are we, Amish or something?

marshall:
I really enjoy dropping in here and reading about all those bitter-sweet days. I was a newcomer at the same time as Cookie. Wow! She was started over? I remember Nona too. Seemed very likable. I shared an apartment with Jim Helm. Cleveland's right, he was a great guy.

I think most cult-like groups start out with good intentions. I don't think Art started out with the idea of harming anyone. Many leaders simply fall for the temptation of all of the hero-worship. Ego takes over. That was so apparent with Art, I remember noting it even when I was on my program. It was like we were supposed to ignore his ego trip. To me, the Seed was both good and bad. Some of their core AA- inspired ideas were valid and helpful. I've been able to pick and choose what was beneficial and discard the rest. This picking and choosing was condemned by staff though.

The prohibition regarding sex and playing games with chicks...that whole mindset really stunted my emotional growth for several years though. I remember Hank saying that wet-dreams were OK...hell, how could you stop them?...but that sexual fantasies was a no-no. After graduating my program I remember telling a couple of girls that I couldn't have anything to do with them...because they had smoked pot a few times in the past. It was years before I regained some measure of confidence with the opposite sex.

A few months into my program I started to see the flaws and became very disillusioned. But having the court-ordered choice between staying at the seed or going (back) to prison, I tried my best to put up a good front. The only effect this had was that I virtually stopped relating in group. I was always afraid that I would be discovered. I can relate to Greg's feelings about graduating the program too. It was a great relief to be free. I think I went back 2 or 3 times to meetings after graduation. My time at the lauderdale seed was one of the most unhappy periods of my life. It was worse than prison in some ways. At least jail only holds your body.

GregFL:
Marshall, I could have almost wrote that myself. Spot on in my opinion except I still fail to find anything of value in my seed experience.


I also don't think Art started out thinking he would end up being a cult leader, nor do I believe for a minute his initial intention was to hurt anyone.

However people did get hurt including me and many others I know. And for those hurt the pain was deep and wounding and lasted for years.

I also had problems coming to terms with my sexuality after the Seed. I had hit puberty and had my first ejaculation during a ahem... nightime episode...after coming home and didn't even know how to deal with it. I was so screwed up with all the phony moralizing about sex and not allowed to even look at girls. Also, Boys rap (really sexual confession rap) was terrifying for me, especially when they would stand up the virgin boys and berate the hell out of them and call them sissys and tell them they would be raped in the ass in jail, ad nausem. I was scared shitless this was going to happen to me and always tried to meld into the group and not get called on. These raps were the worse of the worse for me and to this day can recall specific instances of terror watching others being systemically destroyed in boys rap. Being taunted at school during this time was also very hurtfull to me as my ego was trying to develop and I was being forced to push down all my natural feelings and attractions for those "druggie" and "dry druggie"  girls that were fortunate enough to have escaped the massive tentacles the Seed possessed at the time. This combined with opposing unhealthy sexual attitudes of both my mother and father left me confused about where I stood, but I def wanted to get laid in the worst of ways!

It took me years to finally come to terms with
all the unhealthy and unnatural cultic versions of sex and sexuality I was taught in that steaming warehouse that reeked of teenage sweaty bodies...an example being wet dreams were okay but masturbating would get you in trouble. Unreal and unbelievable even to this day when I think back.


Your post is so correct. Also, underlying what you wrote is another point that you made if you read between the lines. Cult groups don't hurt everyone that gets involved but the people that are hurt are often wounded deep. The group psychology always blames the person who is hurt and disowns them, cuts off their "love" (which is completely and  totally conditional which makes it nothing but a lie and a tool of the cult). The group also imbeds in this person that they are a failure and worthless without the group and that often becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy. Some of this attitude has been displayed, 30 years later, right on this message site.

If nothing else this entire subject is fascinating especially since we were all involved and can now bring our experiences out into the open and discuss it among ourselves.

[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-10-18 13:35 ][ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-10-18 13:40 ]

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