Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Seed Discussion Forum

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cleveland:
I have some powerful memories of being in the Cleveland Seed in 1977, transfering to State Rt. 84 facility six months later. I stayed in for seven long years, until escaping in 1986.

From reading posts here, I see that emotions run form deep anger to gratitude. Anyone uninterested in their experience would likely not post.

When I entered I was a really shy, socially awkward college dropout who was clinically depressed and full of anger. My disfunctional family had imploded and my Seedling brother who proceeded me into the program seemed to be really, really happy. I cam in and stayed and he split. It took me seven years to regain enough self-awareness to leave.

My years at the Seed where powerful and emotionally intense. I felt so close to a few key people but really alienated and afraid of those who seemed to have power. I always felt like an outsider and desperately wanted to be a part - the Seed convinced me that my life and sanity depended on it at first - later I just had a hard time admitting I'd made a mistake and I was afraid to leave.

When I did leave, I entered therapy and went to Adult Children of Alcoholics, another cult in a way but by then I had learned my lesson.

Today I am a pretty functional adult.

OK - here's some memories of The Seed 1977-1986 -
Getting up at 5:00 am to be dropped off in some strange house and sleeping on a still warm bed.
Some Cleveland oldcomer who had a '68 Comaro convertible (Cleveland Oldcomers tended to be gearheads - unreformed by the Seed!)
The former Catholic home on Detroit Avenue in Cleveland, full of statues of saints
Moving to Florida, and the huge, vacant rooms in Broward Alligator Alley location full of rows of empty chairs (part of the legend)
Staying up for nightwatch detail at the above location
Swimming at someone's pool
Endless games of baseball SR 84 and football at Hollywoon beach (I hated sports, was bad at them too, and was really bored the entire time - what a waste of my life!)
I formed intense bonds with a couple of people - like best friends, but I realized that I ultimately could never fit in - wasn't 'cool' enough, in Seed terms, to really have juice.
I was one of the Seed 'worker bees' - loyal, quiet, hard working and basically unrewarded
I finally escaped when I woke up one morning at 3:00 am, knowing that I had to leave. I crept out of the house, loaded up my VW Beetle, and drove north. Halfway I changed my mind, and tried to call my Seed house and turn my self in. No answer, thank god, and I awoke and returned to Cleveland.

Sometimes I wonder what happened to Mitch, Brad, Fred, Ginger, Patty, and all my other cohorts. Underneath the cult exterior some of them where really nice people. I imagine they are all Republicans now, they were pretty close then.

The drug days? I hardly used any. Alcohol was my family poison and I had to deal with that. Art was trying to roll back the 60s and at the same time coopt its idealism - that's what George Bush's America is so adept at.

OK, sorry for the politics but I just had to vent. I hope to learn more from this site but it seems hard to navigate. I don't do much of this. Thanks for maintaining this!

GregFL:
Welcome Cleveland!. Two new guys in one day.  The site is starting to take off again.  You are so welcome.


Ohio Seed, Eh? You must remember John Perloff...he is now Art Barkers Attorney and reportedly still close to the inner circle.

Evan Wright? Remember him? Big time reporter and author..his recent book being made into a HBO miniseries.

Other than that, Same deal. Please take some time and read thru the forum, give us a story, and participate often.  All opinions are welcomed and solicited here.

Filobeddoe:
Greetings Wally Gator!

Seven (7) years!! Now, that is tooooooo long. When did you graduate your program? I was in for 12 months & while I didn't hate the Seed... I had had enough & was ready to go on with working, going to school, etc.... never went back.

Were you on staff or otherwise employed at the Seed during your time at Ft Lauderdale? Were you there everyday or did you just stay active with the program?

Being involved with the program for so long, you probably have alot of stories which we would love for you to share.

I can understand how you could find things to like about your fellow seedlings. Alot of them were very good people. I was lucky to have all good oldcomers when I was there as well as a bunch of graduates in my hometown of Sarasota that I was very close to. I can't say that about staff... just because I didn't ever get to know them in my short time there (their job was to be our overseers... not our friends or peers of course).

..... look forward to hearing more of your story.

Somejoker:
People went to the seed from all walks of life. Good people, bad people, mentally ill, mentally strong.

We have people that are police, politicians, and drug addicts and on death row as graduates.  Seedlings were representations of all walks of WHITE SOCIETY.


What seedling weren't is the chosen people,the seed army, or any other such cultic dribble.

cleveland:
No matter how long ago I was at the Seed, it was such a vivid experience that reading about it still gives me chills.

I think that the Seed was extremely clever at developing loyalty and playing with our emotions. I was a pretty rootless 19 year old, and I was really looking for something to belong to. The Seed gave me that, or at least the illusion of it. At some point, I realized that I would never truly belong to it (after all, you can't belong to something that asks you to repress who you are) but I still thought that we were special "changing the world" or "homo superior" as Art used to call it. The Seed was also really great at playing on my insecurities. Because I was a relatively priveleged, white, suburban kid, I was made to feel like the Seed people were more real, that Art's experiences in life were more relevant than mine - that he was a hero, that he had succeeded in society yet removed himself from it so he could be with us.

At some point, the need to be a "perfect seedling" and to remove big parts of my self from public view began to bother me. I wanted to be myself, express my creativity, fall in love, have real friendships that weren't subject to staff approval. I inwardly rebelled for a long time before I left - I knew I was living a lie.

The humiliation that was part of my entry into the program also reinforced the difficulty I had leaving - the body cavity search, being told that I was wrong about everything I'd ever done, that my friends were all bad for me and I was bad for them, that I didn't know how to be a friend, that my family was totally fucked up, that I couldn't make it on my own. Contrast that with being told 'we love you' over and over again, and that my oldcomers were really brilliant at picking up on my needs and fears, and that the staff was really savvy at subtle coercion. Plus, hey, some of the girls were hot, and I wanted them to like me.

And that brings up sex. I guess I had a lot of guilt about my admittedly limited sexual relationships at 19, but the Seed really made me feel like a looser. I remember we were not even supposed to think about sex - remember being told to 'get your head out of the gutter' all the time? I really did make an effort to not think about sex AT ALL - jeez. We played football on the beach with the girls and it was SO HARD to not get that out of your head - they all wore bikinis. I was guilty as charged. After a while I just said fuck it and I became really good at having sexual fantasies during the rap sessions while still formulating a Seed-appropriate response in case I was called on. I think that's when the hyporcrasy of the whole thing fell into place for me and made it much easier to eventually leave.

I entered the Seed progam on August 15, 1978. I had dropped out of college, so depressed I could hardly stand living anymore. I had gone to an Open Meeting in Cleveland and - this was the 70s - there were kids who actually looked happy (it was so cool to look miserable if you were a 19 year old in 1978). I fell for it. Senior staff in Cleveland Scott Barebitski was completely charming, struck me as a hipster, and let me feel like I was in for a real treat if I entered the program. I said 'what the fuck' and before I knew it I was strip searched, all of my 'druggie' clothing was taken away, my hair was cut to military specs, and I was sitting on the front row thinking 'what the fuck have I done?'

Staff at the time was Hank, Bob (a mean guy - I never liked him), and - now I can't remember, an older (like 35) brunette who spoke in a very soft voice and had once had a date with Burt Reynolds. There were some Jr. staff. John Perloff for one. He was a typical product of upper class suburban Cleveland - good looking and smart, but vain about it too I always thought.

Most of the Cleveland oldtimers where real blue collar cleveland types - big guys who worked at Ridge tool or warehouses, and they had hot cars like Camaros or Chevelles (which I always thought was a violation of our 'I'm not supposed to look cool or enjoy material things' vow). Months after I entered (praying to leave every, every day) the whole program moved to Florida, which was cool with me because I had spent happy summers there as a kid. Art and Shelley had come up to Cleveland a few times and I thought his softshoe, old-school jokes and military stories were cool. I was excited about going.

In Florida we had Libby, Cookie, Ginger, and Evie. Libby scared me a little but I thought I understood her 'poor little rich girl' story. Cookie seemed resonable, Evie was nice. But I had a huge crush on Ginger. She was smart, funny and seemed to understand me better that I understood myself. That was definitely used to keep me interested. The guys - Hank from Cleveland, who seemed to leave eventually, Cliff, and later sort of his brother Fred, Ken, Scott B., John P., others. Robert came up sometimes, this huge, soft spoken black guy who gave off a lot of street cred.

Whatever we did there was always the rigid heirarchy of who was in and out. Who's the best newcomer? Who does Art talk to? Who gets to be called on? Who is your oldcomer - somebody cool, I hope? Whatever natural 'Lord of the Flies' kind of thing we might have was rigidly enforced. I even remmber when Cookie had start over on the front row, and she was right under Libby.

Seven years. Remember Jim Helm? He was one of my favorite people, and if he was part of this, how could it be bad?

OK, more to come later. This is kind of cathartic!

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