Author Topic: Global Warming Just for you Deborah  (Read 4582 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline thepatriot

  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« on: August 16, 2004, 03:53:00 PM »
I don't know about where the rest of you live , but in Illinois it has been in the 40's at night IN AUGUST some trees are already starting to turn. I was in Dallas last week it averaged 80 degrees, usually 100 this time of year. So much for Global warming. I am ready for the flames from you whacked out ,save the whale types on this one but who gives a shit hear it Goes I am always up for good debate or to instigate and watch the shit hit the fan. I know you will love this one Deb. Bring It I know you are standing by with your BullShit stats from the Kyoto treaty(which in my uneducated opinion is a complete snow job)



 Yes, Global Warming, as it is being promoted, is a complete joke, the whole idea that puny little man, can have any effect on Earth's biosphere is so patently absurd. It may be getting warmer, but ONE volcano can spew out 20 years of exhaust in one month, consider this: every single dirt clod on this planet is a by product of volcanic activity, all the mountains, also all the valleys, to the bottom of the sea, every bit of it was formed from boiling liquid rock, coming from inside the liquid core. If the greenhouse effect could destroy life on Earth, I think it would have done it by now... in fact, I'm sure it has many times. This planet has been hit from space by burning rock, too. Consider the lowest point on the Earth's surface, The Dead Sea. It didn't get there by water running downhill. Something had to smack it down from above. I'm sure mankind will never come close to the carbon based fuel exhaust put out by that blast, and that's only one of many. But, it gets worse. Not only is every speck of rock and dirt the product of complete meltdown, all the air comes from the same place. So how did all this rock get here anyway? Debris from the REAL nuclear world... STARS. Every molecule of every speck of molten rock on Earth is the direct byproduct of interstellar nuclear fusion, the likes of which we can't even imagine. Take the biggest H-bomb ever imagined, then multiply that times a number higher than any number we've ever conceived of, and that's how much every molecule on this planet has been subjected to. THAT'S HOW IT GOT HERE. That's where "here" came from. Not just "here"... ALL "HERE'S" EVERYWHERE. So, if all this unimaginable nuclear activity on a vast scale produced this planet, AND LIFE ITSELF, then how could the pitiful activities of mankind put any dent in it at all? The only danger we face is from our own stupidity, our obsession to be totally full of corny-ass BULLSHIT, spoon fed to us by a box with light and sound coming out, we look to the box to tell us what to think, since its way too hard to just look around and use common sense.

, most "science" is just a scam to keep us enslaved in our brains, a crude, half-assed attempt to keep us from thinking our own thoughts, going from point A, to point B, and all the way to Z. Most of the available energy is going to waste anyway, in the form of raw sunlight, the Earth's magnetic field, and wack-ass politicians, lying into microphones all day long. Look how much lightening there is all over the world every day. Only a liberal nazi like Al Gore would think mankind's rinky dinky power systems can even begin to influence a system as large and rugged as a planet. Absurd delusions of grandeur, just a miniscule puff of hot air,  Leave that kind of idiocy to religion, where it belongs. The government should concern itself with MONEY, not totalitarian tree-hugger policies from the insane asylum. If science needs a good project, why not figure out what that big yellow sun is up to? It seems to be rather warm, globally speaking. The Earth is a tiny speck compared to one solar flare of one sunspot, which is a burst of liquid fire, 100's of 1000's of miles high, spewed by gravitational flux and the sun's internal magnetism rubbing ultra-violent nuclear elbows...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
arasota Straight Escapee

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2004, 04:42:00 PM »
For a number of years, I've been catching little bits a pieces of info about something called HAARP. Various conspiracy mongers have made the case that it's a war weapon, that it's capable of influencing the weather on a grand scale, that it has to do w/ new communications technology or even remote surveilance by way of using the ionosphere as a magnifying mirror of some sort. Until very recently, officialdome has denied all of it as strenuously and as flipantly as GHW Büsh denied the existance of the NSA right up until at least 1992.

I never believed any of it and I never discarded any of it out of hand, either. I simply didn't know and I knew that I didn't know and so I've just waited and watched for something concrete to come out of it all.

Well, just yesterday, I saw something about it on the Science chanel. So I thought I'd look again.

Well, here we go! http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/

So what do you think, Patriot? Is the University of Alask engaging in conspiracy mongering at it's own expense or is HAARP a real program?

I don't know the longterm effects of heating up the ionosphere, whetever the intended effect. I will say, though, that it doesn't seem like a very good idea to me. (and, btw, the same Science chanel presentation covered cloud seeding used as a weapon during the Vietnam war)

To the extent that a society limits its government to policing functions which curb the individuals who engage in aggressive and criminal actions, and conducts its economic affairs on the basis of free and willing exchange, to that extent domestic peace prevails. When a society departs from this norm, its governing class begins, in effect, to make war upon the rest of the nation. A situation is created in which everyone is victimized by everyone else under the fiction of each living at the expense of all.

--Edmund A. Opitz

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline SyN

  • Posts: 1031
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2004, 04:49:00 PM »
"dear god basil im going crosseyed"

mass hasnt even hit 90 degree's yet this summer. Winters of the last 3 years have been great (I'm an avid ski'ier so bring on the snow all year.) and even scientist I talk to from Umass say they wouldnt be surprised if another Ice age has begun.  Also it doesnt need to take thousands of years for an ice age to hit it has happened within the space of 10 years, without man made by products.



  The Earth is a tiny speck compared to one solar flare of one sunspot, which is a burst of liquid fire, 100's of 1000's of miles high, spewed by gravitational flux and the sun's internal magnetism rubbing ultra-violent nuclear elbows...


those flares are definetly potent since they cause black outs here (earth) from time to time.
I do prefer science to christianity or any ism, but i laugh constantly at their theories, but respect them at the same time.  
good post patriot!!!
SyN
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
A word to the wise is infuriating.\"

Offline thepatriot

  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2004, 05:00:00 PM »
Well HAARP...yes I have read about it and actually heard about it one late night on the Art Bell show, For what that is worth , maybe its a alien conspiracy. There is a school of thought that we are heading for another ice age and then the global warming thing. I don't believe that there is credible evidence for either. And I am certainly not going to quit using my gas powered leaf blower because of Al Gore....or driving my SUV for that matter. Why the whole SUV thing is even relevant to anything is beyond me. Hey I pay to fill the gas tank not anybody else. As far as HAARP goes the research has many relevant expeiments as far as radio and frequency propagation go that can be used in communications or electronic warfare, radio jamming etc, propagation studies. In learning how the ionosphere responds to changes from weather conditions we can learn to better engineer wireless commuunications networks to respond better to atmospheric conditions and natural changes that occur within the ionosphere. To my understanding it is only done in very small areas at frequencies above 2.8 Mhz to roughly 10 mhz which transmits a narrow beam. But who knows maybe Dubbya and the Aliens are working on it together.

_________________
Sarasota Straight Escapee
[ This Message was edited by: thepatriot on 2004-08-16 14:03 ][ This Message was edited by: thepatriot on 2004-08-16 14:04 ]
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
arasota Straight Escapee

Offline Antigen

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12992
  • Karma: +3/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://wwf.Fornits.com/
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2004, 05:36:00 PM »
I can agree w/ both of you on the topic of science over religion. And, to a large degree, environmantalism has sprung forth as a sort of religion for some ppl.

Patriot, were you around when I floated that petition to ban dyhydromonoxide?  :rofl: Wasn't my idea, mind you. I saw it somewhere and just thought it was hillarious. Credulity is dangerous, but it can be fun too. Sort of like home made fireworks, I suppose.

My point is that most of what passes for debate and discussion on environmental issues gets hijacked by silly issues like the SUVs. Frankly, I think the SUV thing is all about petty jealousy; people who can't afford one blaming those who can for all the world's ills. That works both ways, of course. Either way, it's counterproductive to meaningful discussion.

I think there is a very good case to be made for weaning down from our oil addiction. Unfortunately, most of the people who share my view on that tend to call me mean names like conservative and republican whenever I suggest what I think is the best way to go about it; deregulation.

If it were not so costly and if the liability were not so high, I think we'd have seen some local entrepreneurs pull together biomass energy production right about the time that gasoline broke the dollar per galon mark at the pump. It's not that difficult, in technical terms, to turn any high oil seed crop into diesel or practically any fast growing, starchy crop into ethyl fuel. All of the difficulty lies in meeting regulatory requirements and competing in the market w/ heavily subsidiesed industries.

Just eliminating legislative barriers to free market production of agricultural fuel would eliminate nearly 100% of our need to even involve ourselves in foreign affairs. Now, wouldn't that be nice?

Since you [US "drug tsar" McCaffrey] control a federal budget that has just been increased from $17.8 billion last year to $19.2 billion this year, is asking people like you if we should continue with our nation's current drug policy like a person asking a barber if one needs a haircut? --
                                                              Orange Country, California
                                                                  Los Angeles Times
                                                                    29 March 2000
--Judge James P. Gray

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline thepatriot

  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2004, 05:42:00 PM »
I can't argue with that point Ginger well said.....Bravo :nworthy:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
arasota Straight Escapee

Offline thepatriot

  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2004, 05:43:00 PM »
Hey Deb still wating on your input, I know I raised a hair. I always get amused by your posts, so come on where ya at?.....Deb???.............DEB?????
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
arasota Straight Escapee

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2004, 06:20:00 PM »
"But who knows maybe Dubbya and the Aliens are working on it together."

god damn commie aliens!!!!  :lol:

i personally think suv's are the least of our worries here n now.  Though i would love the hydrogen cell hype to pull through so we can bankrupt haliburton.

"As far as HAARP goes the research has many relevant expeiments as far as radio and frequency propagation go that can be used in communications or electronic warfare, radio jamming etc,"

I found an article about controlling weather I'll try to find it.  Imagine that weapon, send a fleet of tornadoes at em!!!!!! fuk a nuke here's a typhoon up your ass. scary scary stuff. im gonna try to find that article again.
SyN
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline SyN

  • Posts: 1031
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2004, 06:22:00 PM »
above was me obviously :wave:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
A word to the wise is infuriating.\"

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2004, 02:30:00 AM »
I agree with your man Patriot, on this point:
The only danger we face is from our own stupidity, our obsession to be totally full of corny-ass BULLSHIT, spoon fed to us by a box with light and sound coming out, we look to the box to tell us what to think, since its way too hard to just look around and use common sense.

I could dig up some articles, but I'm not in the mood. I'm on vaction. Trying to ignore the filth and dead fish that roll up on the beach everyday.

If one looks around and uses common sense, it is obvious that the environment, which sustains all life, is in serious distress. That may not be important to you. For some damn reason I'm kinda attached to the idea of life on Earth continuing. That requires clean air, clean water, clean food. Pretty simple. In that regard we're going down hill at an unstoppable pace. I predict that we'll be buying air to breath before too long, ya know, like we buy bottled water because what comes out of the tap is chemical soup. Prozac was recently found in blue gills in Tx. Ain't it fun?

'Save the Earth'? How arrogant!! Short of some mad scientists blowing the planet up, Earth will survive. Humans and other life forms (with the exception of roaches and f-in fire ants,perhaps) stand to perish. Earth will move on and repair the damage done by the ignorant behavior of humans. The forces of nature are so incredibly intellegent. It's easy to understand how some must conclude that there is a wise old man orchestrating it all. The environment is constantly seeking balance. Every human cause will have an environmental effect. To think anything else is to be ignorant.

For me, your attitude is as lame as the notion that one might pig out on McDonalds everyday and never experience bad health. Fuck the science, where's the common sense. It makes me sad that my grandson has seen only three frogs in his ten years. That we must release the fish we catch because we're afraid to eat them.

I hope things go well, but most days I'm a card totin' member of the church of futilitarianism. Despite what scientists say on either side of the issue, common sense, oral tradition, paint a pretty gloomy picture. Ancient oral traditions such as- when certain bird migrate it's a signal for time to plant, or it's safe to walk on the frozen ocean to fish until such-and-such date- are no longer valid. Hundreds/thousands of years of wisdom and oral tradtion rendered useless. Because the environment is becoming irratic, unpredictable. Very disorienting. And, that is my understanding of how global warming will effect the climate. Irratic, unusual weather; not across-the-board, consistently higher temperatures. Ice caps are melting, and it's anyone's guess what the results will be. We are involved in the great experiment. Haven't been there, haven't done that. No one really knows what the effect of sucking every drop of pertroleum out of the Earth will have. Native Americans liken petroleum to hormones. Not something you want to fuck with. Common sense begs, why deplete the entire store when there are clean sources of energy. It's a choice. Largely financial and political.

Environmentalism = religion. Environmentalists are no different than any other contingency that feels passionate about their chosen issue. I don't consider environmentalism as one's religion to necessarily be a bad idea. I appreciate and admire the way natives made social policy. I'm sure you've heard of the seven generation test? The biggest problem with modern society is that more is taken than given. Humans give nothing back to the Earth, not even their disease ridden carcasses. Even in death, they can't give- can't contribute to the natural cycle of life. Give and receive. Natives also LIVED their religion. There was respect and appreciation for the gifts that nature provided freely, without prejudice.

I think Daniel Quinn did a fabulous job of outlining the descent of modern humans in Ishmael-the devistation of the past 200 years. One may be disappointed though, he doesn't have a solution... and doesn't pretend to. He too is a member of the church of futilitarianism. As is Bill Mollison, the father of Permaculture. Most hold out hope, but common sense overrides hope. The human experiment is heading for a crash landing. Time to party and enjoy the last days. Enjoy your role in supporting the experiment 100%. Afterall, it's kinda fun surfing on the edge, huh? There could be worse things than extinction of the human species. Earth will keep rockin and rollin. And I don't think Earth gives a flying fuck about you or your SUV. Totally insignificant in the bigger scheme of things... just as you say. So why all the justification? Just enjoy it.... and pay attention.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline thepatriot

  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2004, 09:39:00 AM »
Futilitarianism--created as a result of the existentialist movement during the early 20th century--is often characterized as the true belief in nothing. It does set itself apart from Nihilism which also professes to believe in nothing. No true sects of this belief exist due to its single tenet (or non-tenet); it believes that everything is futile and even to believe that everything is futile is futility at its best--so to truly grasp the idea you have to un-grasp the idea and not even consider even consideration. Unfortunately, every futilitarian movement has not lasted very long at all due to the basic tenets. In fact it is against futilitarian beliefs to write this paper. Futilitarians don't last long and usually find the futility in eating, sleeping, and doing other things that promote life and often die of malnutrition. There is really nothing else to say, or not say, about Futilitarianism.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
arasota Straight Escapee

Offline thepatriot

  • Posts: 570
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2004, 10:04:00 AM »
Deb you really need to lighten up a little. I hope you are not as miserable in real life as your posts would lead us to believe.

And as far as your comment

"For me, your attitude is as lame as the notion that one might pig out on McDonalds everyday and never experience bad health."

Believe it or not it is possible for some, not everbody will be effected equally by anything and to assume that is lame at best. Although I must admit it is a pretty good post and you make a lot of great and valid points, but do you always have to be
so morbidly apethetic about life? is it really that bad?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
arasota Straight Escapee

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2004, 01:44:00 PM »
I am not part of the futilitarian movement- it was a figure of speech. I feel extremely futile in regards to the masses changing their relationship to the environment, or that they will ever connect the dots and grok that they indeed are totally dependent on the environment. What one does to the environment, one does to themselves. I don't know if people are genuinely ignorant or just don't care. I can't relate to either.

'WE'? You got a frog in your pocket?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline SyN

  • Posts: 1031
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2004, 01:43:00 AM »
"For me, your attitude is as lame as the notion that one might pig out on McDonalds everyday and never experience bad health."

funny you said that. check out this article deb

http://valleyadvocate.com/gbase/News/co ... =oid:67290
SyN
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
A word to the wise is infuriating.\"

Offline Deborah

  • Posts: 5383
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Global Warming Just for you Deborah
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2004, 11:04:00 AM »
from: news.bbc.co.uk

Is the world's oil running out fast?
By Adam Porter
at the Peak Oil conference in Berlin
How long will the oil keep flowing?

If you think oil prices are high at $40 a barrel then wait till they are four times that much.

How will you pay to run your car? How will you get the children to school? How will you heat your house? How much will transported food go up in price?

How will we pay for plastics, metals, rubber, cheap flights, Simpson's DVDs, 3G phones and everlasting economic growth?

The basic answer is, we won't.

This is the message from the Association for the Study of Peak Oil (ASPO).

The group of oil executives, geologists, investment bankers, academics and others has been warning the world of high oil prices, and the ensuing fallout, for some years now.

The end of cheap oil

It includes a diverse range of oil industry insiders.

People like Ali Bakhtiari, head of strategic planning at Iran's National Oil Company (NOIC), Dr Colin Campbell, a former executive vice president of Total-Fina, and Matthew Simmons, an energy investment banker and adviser to the controversial Bush-Cheney energy plan.

They are united by one idea, that global oil production is about to peak, which in turn will signal the permanent end of cheap oil.

And they warn that this is the foundation of the current rise in oil prices.

Who hurts when prices explode?

"Oil is far too cheap at the moment," says Mr Simmons.

"The figure I'd use is around $182 a barrel. We need to price oil realistically to control its demand. That is because global production is
peaking."

Large new oil fields are ever more difficult to find

"If we price oil correctly," Mr Simmons says, "it could give us time to find bridge fuels, fuels to fill the gap between an oil economy and a renewable economy. But I don't see that happening."

The adherents of the peak oil theory warn the decline of world oil output will force oil prices higher for good, and that the knock on effects could be catastrophic.

"In my opinion, unfortunately, there will be no linear change," says Iran's Ali Bakhtiari. "There will only be sudden explosive change."

"The people who will be least affected will be the super poor, who already have no access to energy, and the super rich who do not care if oil is $100 a barrel."

"It is everyone who is in the middle who will be hurt the most," says Mr Bakhtiari. "When the crisis comes there will be enormous changes."

Oil rationing?

Dr Campbell says endless growth is not possible

Much of ASPO's predictions stem from the calculations of Dr Campbell.

His work on oil reserves has long suggested that many official oil data are either flawed estimates or at worst downright lies.

Scandals like the 23% of 'lost' reserves at Royal Dutch Shell have helped to boost interest in his work.

False reserves threaten the security of energy supply, just as do bombs under pipelines.

Dr Campbell's conclusion: oil production and consumption should be regulated by governments.

"Many reserve figures are highly questionable," says Dr Campbell.

"Many great oil fields are increasingly old and inefficient. But I don't think oil is easy to produce with a sniper behind every palm tree."

"The way to increase energy security is to reduce demand," he says.

'Difficult times'

At ASPO's recent conference in Berlin, companies such as BP and Exxon and men such as Fatih Birol, chief economist of the International Energy Agency, began to talk to the proponents of the peak oil theory.

Whilst they may not agree with Dr Campbell's theories, their attendance highlighted ASPO's emerging importance in the oil debate.

In public, Mr Birol denied that supply would not be able to meet rising demand, especially from the buoyant economies in the USA, China and India.

But after his speech he seemed to change his tune.

"For the time being there is no spare capacity. But we expect demand to increase by the fourth quarter (of the year) by three million barrels a
day."

He pinned his hopes for an increase in production squarely on troubled Saudi Arabia.

"If Saudi does not increase supply by 3 million barrels a day by the end of the year we will face, how can I say this, it will be very difficult. We will have difficult times. They must invest."

Can Saudi deliver?

But even Mr Birol admitted that Saudi production was "about flat".

Three million extra barrels a day would mean a huge 30% leap in output in just a few months.
 
North Sea oil production is in decline

When BBC News Online followed up by asking if this giant increase in production was actually possible rather than simply a desire he refused to
answer. "You are from the press? This is not for you. This is not for the press."

Asking other delegates - admittedly supporters of the peak oil theory - whether such a steep increase was feasible, the answers were unambiguous:
"absolutely out of the question," "completely impossible," and "3 million barrels - never, not even 300,000."

One delegate laughed so hard he had to support himself on a table.

Some recent figures tend to back up ASPO's outlook.

North Sea production is declining at an increasing rate, having peaked in 1999.

Not at the predicted flat rate of decline of 7%, but gradually accelerating from 7% to 8.5% to 11%.

And the number of major new oil fields discovered around the world fell to zero for the first time in 2003, despite an obvious increase in
technological expertise.

"We need transparency with the figures," says Dr Campbell.

"This avoids profiteering from shortages, the collapse of poor countries and it will stimulate alternatives."

"Consumer countries need to be able to audit fields, but at the same time 'flat earth' economists who believe in endless growth need to change their ideas."

And Dr Campbell has a dire warning: "If the real figures were to come out there would be panic on the stock markets, in the end that would suit no
one."
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700