Author Topic: Thayer Learning Center in Kidder MO  (Read 99015 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #180 on: October 04, 2004, 01:03:00 AM »
most will behave when beaten, starved, or isolated into submission. the only place i have ever seen anything written favorably about the center is on the center's web site. HHHMMMMMM wonder why that is????
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #181 on: October 04, 2004, 01:44:00 AM »
I am an EMT in Missouri. At no time while earning my EMT certification is it stated that I can dispense meds. They should have a certified RN or an LPN to pass out them out.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #182 on: October 04, 2004, 02:24:00 AM »
Discipline crosses line, critics say
By Matthew Franck
Of the Post-Dispatch
10/03/2004
KIDDER, Mo. - Desperation prompted Paula Marsteen and her husband to ship their defiant son, Michael, from their home in Phoenix to a teen boot camp in a remote corner of Missouri.

In the desperation of witnessing Michael's violent fits and uncontrollable behavior, Marsteen came to terms with her choice. She knew the boot camp would expose her son to a kind of discipline he never encountered. But she felt he needed to be broken down, to have his privileges and freedom stripped away.

So off Michael went to Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp and Boarding School in Kidder, and along with him the $4,000 monthly tuition the family raised by taking out a $30,000 loan.

Doubts lingered, but Marsteen stood by her decision, hoping that after weeks in the program Michael was going through a transformation.

Then came a phone call from a former school employee who warned the family that he believed Michael was being mistreated.

Within hours, Marsteen had crossed the country to reach her son. She found him in a small isolation room, where he said he had been kept for 11 days. "For all I knew he could have been dead in that little room," she said.

Marsteen and at least one other parent have removed their children from Thayer in the past several weeks following concerns about their treatment. A third parent pulled her son from the program in January.

The abuse allegations, which are being made by at least three former employees, range from prolonged isolation to medical neglect, from censored communication to excessive corporal discipline.

Yet Thayer Learning Center is thriving.

Some parents have ignored phone calls like the one Marsteen got. The program now enrolls about 100 youths and plans to double or even triple enrollment soon.

Kevin Mitchell, of Stow, Ohio, marvels at the turnaround in his son since he completed the program. "I'm still baffled," he said. "It has been miraculous."

Jerry Banks, who operates Thayer, said any controversy is the work of a few disgruntled employees. He said the boot camp had opened its doors to investigators who were following up on the abuse allegations. State officials will not speak about the status of any inquiry.

"If we are abusing children, we want to be investigated," Banks said. "But what's the definition of abuse?"

Thayer's success is a sign of the vitality of the teen reform industry in Missouri, where hundreds of young people from across the country are enrolled in at least a half-dozen programs.

Like Thayer, those programs have grown despite abuse allegations and, in a few cases, criminal charges. And like Thayer, the programs are almost entirely unregulated by the state.

Missouri law contains at least two provisions that allow certain programs for teens to run without a state license. The first excludes faith-based programs from state oversight, a provision that has made Missouri a haven for such ministries.

But Missouri also exempts child residential programs from regulations if they are connected to a school, as is the case with Thayer. Some believe Thayer is the first teen reform operation to make use of the school exemption in Missouri, signaling the entry of a new kind of teen industry to the state.

Similar programs have opened across the country, often in the West, where some states have few regulations of programs that operate as boarding schools.

Thayer's owners, John and Willa Bundy, opened the boot camp and school two years ago after relocating from Utah, where they had worked in that state's teen reform industry.

In months, the school was outgrowing its building at the site of the Kidder Institute, about 65 miles northeast of Kansas City. Construction crews are expanding the campus.

The meaning of "no"

Banks allowed a Post-Dispatch reporter a short visit to Thayer and was selective about which students could be interviewed. No photographer was allowed.

The program is based on a system of rewards and punishment, with a military-style hierarchy. The teens arrive with no privileges. They sleep at first in sleeping bags on a concrete floor; their days are a series of kitchen chores, yard work and exercises. They earn more freedom over time.

Thayer officials acknowledge using tactics the state would not allow at a licensed child residential program. They include:

Placing youths in isolation for days at a time. State licensed facilities can rarely isolate a child for more than 12 hours.

Strict controls on communication, with staff members screening incoming and outgoing mail and often requiring students to rewrite letters in which they complain about the program.

Denying academic instruction to teens who have not graduated from the boot camp program, which often takes more than three months to complete. Banks said Thayer teaches that school is a privilege.

Entrusting some youths to have authority over others once they have progressed in the program.

On Tuesday a teenage girl stood with her face to a gymnasium wall. A strap belted around her waist was held at the other end by another student. Banks said the punishment had lasted for three days and was preferable to the girl becoming a harm to herself or others.

Banks says he knows such tactics fly in the face of what some might consider acceptable. But he said the approach was effective, particularly in light of the alternative of having teenagers involved in crime and drugs.

"We have to do 15 years of teaching the meaning of 'no' in a year's time," he said.

Brittany Sherrod of Thomasville, Ga., completed the program this year and said she never witnessed abuse. She entered hating the restrictions but said she grew to understand them. "You learn that this program is helping you," she said.

At least three former employees say the boot camp often crosses the line between discipline and abuse.

Chris Kessinger said she worked at Thayer for seven months. Her job was to keep parents abreast of their child's progress. She said workers kept such strict control of students that many would urinate in their clothing because they were denied a bathroom break. She also says the school often denies medical treatment to youths with legitimate illnesses.

Kessinger and a former teacher at the school, Connie Szczepanik, say they called the state child abuse hot line in May to report their concerns. The two say they were fired, along with another whistle-blower, the next morning.

Another employee, Tim Rocha, worked at the school more recently and reports seeing similar incidents.

Rocha has since called parents directly with his concerns. Marsteen and another parent - Joanie Nations, of Henderson, Texas - responded within hours by removing their children.

Earlier in the year, Sheri Parker also pulled her son out of the program. Parker, a Texas resident, said that only when she visited the school did she learn that her son had been sick for much of his stay and had lost 30 pounds.

Support from town

Many in the town of Kidder say they doubt the allegations against Thayer. Dozens of Kidder's 300 residents work at the school, the largest employer in the area.

"There's too many people in town who would blow the whistle if something bad were going on," said R.L. Eaton, who delivers mail in Kidder.

Banks said the employees who are making claims against the school have grievances such as being passed over for promotion. He said the former workers had exploited the apprehension of parents, causing them to panic.

Mitchell, whose son spent eight months at Thayer, said he and his wife almost pulled him out after a former employee called to allege mistreatment.

At the time, Mitchell said, his son was new to the boot camp, and the parents were struggling over the restrictions placed on their communications, including censored mail.

"It was a big concern," he said. "We knew he could be in there and they could cover anything he says and we wouldn't know it."

But Mitchell said he decided to trust the school and its owners. Today, he said, his son has a 3.8 grade-point average at a military academy in South Carolina.

Meanwhile, Marsteen said her decision to pull Michael from Thayer has brought its own heartache, with her son again acting up.

"He's exactly how he was before," she said.

She says she has questioned her decision to take Michael out of Thayer, but she also feels she can't send him back.

The desperation has returned. And this time she has no idea where else she can turn.

Thayer's Web site is http://www.tlcprogram.com

Reporter Matthew Franck
E-mail: [email protected]
Phone: 573-635-6178
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #183 on: October 11, 2004, 10:20:00 AM »
I left the program in bootcamp in a redshirt and im at Norwich University ( one of the best military schools in the nation) and i have a 3.4 g.p.a and in my old high school i got all f's, its all about wether or not your child realizes his mistakes, knows they were wrong and has found the will and desire to make the correct decisions in his life to succeed.  It took me exactly 251 days at t.l.c to make my way home but somewhere in that time period i found my will and desire. I was the programs problem child at TLC and now am on the varisty lacroose team at a college school, get for the most part all A's and am very succesful at school bc of TLC and my family rep Mr.Riddle, but despite the path i chose, i recogmend keeping your child for the entire program no matter how long it takes
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #184 on: October 11, 2004, 10:25:00 AM »
They also dont abuse kids, they may provide tough love but its neccessary for the child to realize their is no easy way out, i had to stand on my feet for 7 days bc i tried to run away, i ate in the corner and spent my entire day their it was miserable but i learned my lesson and it gave me time to think about what i have to do in order to succeed and get out of this place 231 days later i was home.  They dont beat kids their or mistreat anyone, but their are concequences for bad actions, can you expect them to say its ok when someone fights or tries to run away.  their are restrictions and when broken their are conceqences for the actions taken, its like that in real life and just occurs alot faster in t.l.c with in my mind alot less sever punishments, if i lied at my school about the simplist thing they would not hesitate to kick me out. think about that i g2g to class but i will finish this later
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #185 on: October 12, 2004, 01:27:00 AM »
To the person who said they had to stand on their feet for 7 days because they tried to run away - but it is OK because it's "tough love".  If a parent did that and the child called the authorities, it would be considered child abuse,period.  While I am not a big one on spelling and grammar - I make my share of mistakes, the way the program is presented to the parents is that the child gets quality education.  All the postings I have seen from former students usually aren't very well written. I hope you are doing well in your life now, but please, remember that what Thayer calls tough love is just plain abuse.  Just because you don't hit someone doesn't mean they're not abused.
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Offline Brown

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« Reply #186 on: October 12, 2004, 02:34:00 AM »
I am a recent graduate of the program and I just want to say, that towards the end of my program, I myself caught three kids that tried to run away.  None of them were forced to stand on their feet for days on end.  One of the programs main points that they try to drill into us is making a different choice.  Well that wouldn't be possible with the abuse that is mentioned.  I do agree with you though.  Abuse does not mean someone was to be hit physically.  Abuse can come in all sorts of other forms.

I agree with the other guy that posted talking about keeping kids through out the entire program.  I think that is the only way to be able to see the full message of the program.  I learned more in that last week of my program than I did in the month leading up to my graduation.
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Offline Brown

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« Reply #187 on: October 12, 2004, 02:37:00 AM »
To the Anonymous poster that mentioned how he left the program early.  What facility were you at?  Because I was at Spring Creek, and there was a family rep that was there named Mr. Riddle.  I was really close with him.  I went to Spring Creek on March 31, 2003 and I graduated in May of 2004.

Email me at

[email protected]

or just post something, even if you didn't go to spring creek, where did u go?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #188 on: October 12, 2004, 10:17:00 PM »
the difference is that we wernt at home we were at a program, a program with intentions to mentally break us down and then build us back up in a positive way, that was my breaking point. Also dont point out my grammatical mistakes, i have classes to attend and homework to do.  I respond to this forum between class and break so im constantly in a rush.  Trust me their is no amount of push ups you can make someone do to change their state of mind, what did it for me was being put in isolation for a week and haveing that time to think about my actions.  Its up to the individual to choose the correct path.  Not a drill seargent yelling out commands.  It gets alot more complicated than what i just stated but i honestly dont have the time to discuss.  T.L.C staff are people who try to help teenagers, i did run into some bad people their i dont want to point anyone out but its a good place with good intentions even though the "wheat cereal" was nasty.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #189 on: October 13, 2004, 12:06:00 AM »
Torture and destruction of their psyche is not treatment.

You can call it a good intention to brainwash someone good but they say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I hope they all reached their destination.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #190 on: October 14, 2004, 10:44:00 PM »
I agree with you. AMEN
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #191 on: October 14, 2004, 10:52:00 PM »
there has to be a better way.  Abuse is abuse whether it comes from a family member or a high payed program,abuse is abuse and this program is abusive, locking someone up alone in a room is abuse.  making someone eat something they cant stomach is abuse, no matter how good you think its tastes.  refusing medical treatment is against the geniva convention yet it happens here regullarly.  withdrawing human touch from a new born causes problems yet here touch is not allowed. cutting off contact with everything you know has its problems yet here it happens.  One boy lost a family member and was told to get over it, he was given no grieving time, had to carry on exercising-could you an adult handle that?
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Offline veryconcernedparty2004

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« Reply #192 on: October 15, 2004, 03:39:00 AM »
Where you a student at Thayer?  If you were and are at home, you can always tell the outside world by reporting abuse to the press or going to issacorp.org and writing to them.  If no one speaks about what is going on at Thayer, many more will be hurt. Going to the authorities -is  never an easy or simple thing to do.  But, please, if you've seen abuse, consider reporting it.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #193 on: October 15, 2004, 12:25:00 PM »
READ THIS

Well ill say one thing that is true about most kids and also applied to me, no psychological counseling was going to change me.  I, like most teens at Thayer are quite the manipulators.  I had a personality to fit every person and could have them doing what I wanted, including my parents.  At Thayer I tried every trick in the book, trust me.  And after ever situation or ?incident? I found myself in a red shirt.  The only thing that would have helped me change my ways was going to Thayer.  Being taken away from my negative environment (drugs, alcohol, friends), away from my parents who bailed me out of every situation, and left me on my own to succeed.  There was no one who cared for anything I said except my family rep. The drill sergeants portrayed an act not to care, to make us believe there was no way out and no remorse. I knew that we meant something to them, especially the ones who stuck around, Avriette, Prindle, Aitcheson, Sperry, many sergeants came and left but there are only a few I remember and respect.  D.S Lollar was was the most unforgettable and ran the most effective Boot camp at T.L.C.  He was a fierce, disciplined and highly respectable man.  Their was a sense of confidence about him that commanded everyone?s respect yet we dreaded his presence.  I have written an English essay on him and I think it was a huge mistake of the school to let someone take over his boot camp. He is gone now and to those who knew him know what I mean.  Anyways back to my point.   Hence I was left of my own to succeed and change, with no help for anyone else. Most kids don't realize why they need to go to school or learn good values. I didn?t do anything in my life for myself (in the aspect working towards a better future); everything I did was because my parents wanted me to. What most of us have to realize is that what our parents make us to do is for our (the teenagers) benefit. I?m halfway through my freshman year at Norwich University; I have figured a lot of things out because of T.L.C but still have a whole lot more to comprehend.     Maybe because I left the program early and didn?t graduate?  I was their for 8 months but who knows.  But right now I just got two of my mid term grades in and I have an A, B.  I don?t do drugs or drink, I play a varsity NCAA sport, lacrosse.  I do this all for me. Prior to T.L.C I was lucky if I got a C in high school, I spent my day doing drugs and drinking, I never went to class, and was skinny from cocaine and real out of shape.  So don?t go saying negative things about the program, it?s a new place that is already VERY effective.  Also the best advice I can give someone going to Thayer is ?Keep your mouth shut and do what your told?, the owners son told me that when he dropped me off.  I was ignorant, and didn?t listen to him.  They don?t just look to punish a student, but it a student is misbehaving he will be corrected in ways the school feels suitable.    Anyways, some decisions I choose make my parents very unhappy but it?s not all about them.  One thing that T.L.C emphasized allot was listening to your parents.  If I did everything they tell me to do now I would be miserable.  It?s a very complicated subject, there is no right or wrong answer but the child needs to do things for himself.
Basically what I am saying adds up to, if you get your child to realize he needs to succeed for himself, for his future, for his children then he will make positive choices.   Because isn?t what every parents wants if for their child to be successful and happy?  

           - Bakerly

Im a psychology major so give me a break
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #194 on: October 15, 2004, 03:40:00 PM »
I'm a psychology graduate, so give me a break.  These programs have not been shown to be effective and if there were effects found, they would not be able to generalize for the long term, outside the establishment.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#63698

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#63699
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