Author Topic: Thayer Learning Center in Kidder MO  (Read 98964 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #210 on: November 18, 2004, 09:29:00 PM »
Here's the story that was in the St. Louis Post Dispatch


http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... scipline++
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #211 on: November 18, 2004, 10:04:00 PM »
where did everyone else go, shuck?  did he go home too?  who else was sent away?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #212 on: November 19, 2004, 10:13:00 AM »
There have been several papers and TV stations that have written articles and reported about the incident, but the way the school is replying is by giving written statements from former students who are "doing good",  these are written statement from parents and kids who had recently left the program, some of them are a year or more old.  They were written by the parents right before the kid left and soon after they came home.  I would like for some of these "happy people" come forward to talk live to some of these reporters"  I know that Willa and John have these kid write about the program while they are there and then they use it as success stories or they call and ask the parents to write something right after the kid gets home. . . WELL DUH of course this kids are gonna be wonderful for awhile who the hell would be stupid enough to act out.  I would like to find out how most of these kids are really doing 6 month or a year after, and if they really and truly felt like the program did them good or if they just learned how work their parents better.  I have found from talking to several of the kids that were there, that the only thing they learned was how to work the system.  They learned how and what to say, but not necessarily doing what they say.  They learned that trick from John and Willa Bundy, that is a guarantee.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #213 on: November 19, 2004, 08:14:00 PM »
I attended Thayer last year and know that something HAS to ba done to shut this place down (as do my parents after recieving a phone call from the Caldwell county police department and a doctor stating abuse). We are working through various agencys and just want parents "informed". I know my story, things MAY have changed- although very doubtful. I have a list of websites that are investigating, and have reported their findings- for more info you can contact me directly at [email protected]
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #214 on: November 22, 2004, 06:45:00 PM »
Speak out now!!! Anyone having any information about Thayer Learning Center PLEASE CALL, 1 (800)632-4747 or 1 (660)632-4747. We all need to ban together to stop this crazy people from ruining our community and our childrens lives. Please CALL!!! :flame:  :flame:  :mad:  :mad:
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #215 on: November 23, 2004, 01:05:00 AM »
To find telephone numbers in the future, you could just try Getinfo.us . I know they used to search all the major phone directories such as Yahoo, Switchboard, AnyWho, etc.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #216 on: December 15, 2004, 11:08:00 PM »
god bless you and keep up the good work my daugter is now at tlc and let me tell you it is so good to hear this story for i have been in tears for 50 min now scared worried and i miss my daughter so much and i pray that she has a sucess story. keep up your hard work
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #217 on: December 15, 2004, 11:29:00 PM »
I AM PAYING 47 THOUSAND AND HAVE NOT SEEN MY DAUGHTER SINCE MAY
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #218 on: December 15, 2004, 11:47:00 PM »
Well go get off your ass, and get her out, and tell her you'll believe anything she has to say, and go DO SOMETHING. NOW. And no, they can NOT say you cant see your kid or remove your kid.

This is your child. YOUR CHILD. Nobody else is going to protect your kid but you. GO GET HER!
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #219 on: December 16, 2004, 01:30:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-12-15 20:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I AM PAYING 47 THOUSAND AND HAVE NOT SEEN MY DAUGHTER SINCE MAY"


Sometimes when you pay a lot you get what you pay for.

Other times when you pay a lot you just get scammed.

Scammers are usually pretty good at making it look like you're going to get a lot for your money.

You'd do better to go pick up your kid and try again to handle her problems, whatever they are, in an at-home setting.

(Those of you on Fornits who are tired of my mental health rants will want to skip the rest of this---Timoclea :smile: :smile: :smile: )
-------------------------------------------

If she's a juvenile delinquent, let her know you're not going to rescue her if she does something to get herself locked up in juvie.

If she's mentally ill, try outpatient treatment including psychiatric help from a good pediatric psychiatrist.  Cognitive behavioral therapy helps for some mental illnesses.  Others need medication.  Don't be scared off by Deborah's list of side effects.  Yes, effective psychiatric medications can all have serious side effects, but not everybody experiences the side effects badly enough to outweigh the benefits they get, and patients who have side effects on one drug often don't have them on a different drug.  So medical treatment with psychiatric drugs usually means the pdoc prescribes a drug that's good for your kid's problem and usually gives you samples or a small prescription so you don't have to buy a full bottle of the pills right away.  Then they watch closely to see if the kid improves or starts showing signs of any serious side effects.  If the kid starts showing signs of serious side effects or doesn't improve, they stop that drug (carefully) and try another one.  Usually the kind of side effects or problems the kid has with one drug will give the psychiatrist more information that helps her figure out which drug or combination will actually work for your kid.

So yes, pdrugs *can* have serious side effects---but what the critics never mention is that if a particular patient starts showing signs of those side effects the pdoc doesn't just leave the patient on that drug----they take that patient *off* that drug and try another one until they find one that helps that that particular patient tolerates well.  (I don't know if your kid has a mental illness, but a lot of kids who get sent off do).

Sure, therapy is vital in pediatric patients (and adult patients) until they learn how to cope with the challenges of managing their problems.

But if a patient has a mental illness, there are actual brain differences and damages that can be seen on a CAT scan (they don't normally do them because they're so expensive--but if they do one and look, there are definite differences between normal brains and the brains of mentally ill people), and for many patients therapy alone is just not enough.

If your child's problem is substance abuse, a lot of substance abusers are mentally ill and vice versa, so while AA or NA can be very good therapeutically, if there's an underlying mental illness and you don't treat it, your results won't be good.  If there's *not* an underlying mental illness Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous, with the rest of the family in AlAnon, is probably your best bet.  If I had a kid with a substance problem I would worry more about the kid making it to meetings than occasionally falling off the wagon---the support from others at the meeting and from his/her sponsor is the best thing  for getting the kid to experience accumulating sobriety as rewarding.  I've heard far fewer bad things from people's experiences in real AA or NA living outpatient in the outside world than I've heard from people's experiences in these inpatient teen programs.

If your kid's problem is rampant promiscuity, check *carefully* with one or two pediatric pdocs to rule out bipolar disorder.  Whether or not your kid was diagnosed ADHD as a kid, but *especially* if she was.  A lot of times mania from early onset bipolar disorder is misdiagnosed ADHD, because the two diseases have nearly identical symptoms in children.  Hypersexuality is common in teenage bipolars.  If this is your daughter's problem, you may feel like locking her in a convent out of desperation, but you may get better results from treating the underlying medical problem.

If your kid's problem is a smart mouth or school refusal, or obnoxious friends or bizarre music and fashion tastes, and your kid *isn't* mentally ill, you may just have a kid with a difficult adolescence and she may just have to live with her mistakes and use her twenties to dig herself out of the hole she's getting herself into in her teens.

It's not easy to have and help a kid who's a bit of a wounded bird.  You just have to do the best you can do and hope it's enough.  I understand this, because my much beloved daughter is a bit of a wounded bird herself (as am I).

From what I've seen on the internet, I wouldn't pick TLC as a place to send my kid no matter what her problems were.

I met and talked extensively with someone who is/was a staffer at Three Springs in Alabama.  While I don't recommend programs unless the kid's situation is so acute even an adult with the same problems would be involuntarily committed (imminent danger to self or others), or unless the kid agrees to go to a drug rehab or program with a *good* reputation (Betty Ford, forex) and the parents can afford it, Three Springs is less bad than some.

Let me tell you why I say that:

1) They have actually demonstrated that they *will* fire staffers if they catch them screaming bad things at the kids, and they don't appear to wilfully look the other way and just allow that to happen.

2) They have actually stood up for the kid and told the parents to lay off when what the parents were upset about was that the kid was gay.  They told the parents, "Your kid's gay.  We can't change him and you shouldn't try.  You need to come to terms with it."  If you're very Christian, keep in mind that if this particular kid was very Christian, gay wouldn't have to mean sexually active.  There *are* Christian gays who are celibate---so being gay isn't in and of itself terrible moral turpitude on the part of a kid.

3) They typically treat kids coming in from the nightmare programs in Utah and such elsewhere in the industry (and they are *no* relation to such) for PTSD.  They recognize that bad programs cause trauma and deplore it.

4) Their strictest sanction for bad behavior is sending the kid off one on one in the woods to camp with a counselor.  The kid gets a sleeping bag and a tarp to make a tent and cold meals.  If he wants a fire to heat his food and for warmth, he has to collect the wood and ask the counselor, with please and sir, to light the fire.  Other stuff gets earned back by being polite and civil with the counselor.  Huntsville is actually someplace where you *can* camp year round in the woods without getting sick---my husband grew up there and has done it.

*Normally* the kids live in dorms, and in hot weather they make sure the kids get lots of water and if it's too hot the kids stay inside in the air conditioning.

I know some bad things have happened there that have occasionally caused staffers to be fired, and I *certainly* still believe a child's place is in her own home and that good outpatient care will solve the vast majority of even serious problems.

*HOWEVER*

If you simply *must* put your child in a program, Three Springs in Huntsville, AL is considerably less bad than the nightmare places in Utah or TLC.  I haven't searched exhaustively, but I don't think they've *ever* had a death there---which is more than you can say for TLC.  You also don't have lots of kids showing up on here talking about how horrible it was the way they do about Provo, TLC, Bethel, etc.

I am in no way affiliated with Three Springs, they don't pay me, and the reason I know the staffer is because she and her husband are active in the Science Fiction fandom community.  It's a small community with a very gossipy grapevine and it's significant, to me, that I've never heard anything but good of either of them.  So while I don't know her *well* personally, I believe her that Three Springs is pretty much as she described it.

So if I were you I'd bring your daughter home from Thayer *NOW*----then I'd evaluate, as a parent, what problems she still has, or what new problems she has, and make a real good try at outpatient care for those problems.

Then if you think you just *have* to send her to a program, at least pick one whose reputation isn't quite as bad as TLC's.

Personally, *I* wouldn't commit my child as a minor for anything I couldn't commit her for if she did it as an adult.  The exception to that would be if I couldn't get her medication down her and she had a history of dangerousness to herself or others, I'd either get them to give her a shot at the hospital if they could, or I'd commit her until she was stable on meds again.  But that's consistent with some state's laws on something called outpatient commitment (you have to take your meds and if you don't you get immediately rehospitalized until you're stable again)---laws I agree with and think all states should have, that should apply to seriously mentally ill adults.

But if you're just got to use a program, at least pick one of the least-bad ones.

Timoclea
(I focus on mental illness because a lot of teens that get sent off by desperate parents have a major mental illness, a lot of times undiagnosed, that is the root cause of their problems.  My understanding of mental illness, for whatever it's worth, comes from a bachelors in psychology, living with bipolar disorder since I was five years old, being the mother of a child with early onset bipolar disorder, and having just about every close blood relative have either bipolar disorder or one of the lesser mental health problems that run in the same families as bipolar disorder.)
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #220 on: December 16, 2004, 07:04:00 PM »
For your consideration if psychiatric drugs will be persued. There are no 'easy' fixes.  

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =150#71306
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #221 on: December 21, 2004, 02:25:00 AM »
Posted on Sun, Dec. 19, 2004
 
 
 
JOE LEDFORD/The Kansas City Star
After Tim Rocha of St. Joseph worked at Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp and Boarding School for seven days last summer, he filed two reports of alleged child abuse with the Caldwell County sheriff's office.  
 
 
 
 
 


Teen's death raises concerns about boot camp

Panel: It may have been prevented

By STEVE ROCK

The Kansas City Star


KIDDER, Mo. ? A panel of county and state officials has concluded that the recent death of a 15-year-old at a little-known boot camp might have been prevented with earlier medical treatment.

The panel's report, as well as police records and allegations from former students and employees, paints a disturbing picture of Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp and Boarding School, a military-type home for troubled teens. The report sparked questions from state legislators and illustrates to child advocates why state oversight is needed for such homes.

The privately run facility, about 50 miles north of Kansas City, houses about 100 children who typically range in age from 13 through 17.

One of them, Roberto Reyes of Santa Rosa, Calif., died Nov. 3. The probable cause of death was determined to be a spider or insect bite. Also, a police report said scrapes on Roberto's knees, feet, toes, elbows and back indicated ?that he had been dragged.?

In addition to Roberto's death, police incident reports and seven former Thayer employees and students allege physical and emotional abuse of other students, such as one being forced to eat her own vomit, lengthy isolation, medical neglect and censored communication with parents.

John and Willa Bundy, who own Thayer, declined to be interviewed, but in a written response to The Kansas City Star, Thayer officials called the allegations ?ludicrous and false.?

?These same allegations have been made by several disgruntled former employees over the last couple of years,? the response said. ?All the allegations have been investigated by appropriate state agencies and all have been found false.?

Caldwell County Prosecutor Jason Kanoy said that various allegations have been ?taken under advisement,? but that his office has never filed charges against Thayer or the Bundys. There is a pending investigation in Roberto's case, he said, and he doesn't know whether charges will be filed.

State Rep. John Quinn, a Chillicothe Republican, said he had questions about Roberto's death, but had heard some ?real good reports? about the facility. And the parent of a former student said a stint at Thayer turned her son's life around.

Roberto's death was the first at the facility since it opened more than two years ago.

The final report of the Child Fatality Review Panel in Caldwell County said earlier medical treatment ?may have prevented this fatality.? The bite may have occurred as much as a week before Roberto died, the Caldwell County coroner said, but he doesn't know how much medical attention Roberto received during that time.

Kanoy has refused to release the autopsy report.

Thayer's seven-page faxed response to the abuse allegations consisted largely of testimonials that school officials said were written by unnamed students. Those students reported positive experiences, and one of them thanked the Bundys ?for all their hard work they put into this place.?

?These students' lives were completely out of control before coming to our school,? the response from Thayer said. ?The parents and families of our students who visit on a weekly basis continue to show their support and gratitude for our services and trust Thayer with straightening out their troubled child.?

Ed Proctor, an attorney for Thayer, said last week that he had not seen the final report of the Child Fatality Review Panel and couldn't comment on it. Regarding Roberto's death, he said, ?The bottom line on the reports that have been issued is that it was an accidental death.?

Proctor declined to discuss Roberto's specific situation but said, ?Every child at Thayer has immediate access to medical care at any time.?Deb Hendricks, spokeswoman for the Missouri Department of Social Services, said state privacy laws prevent her from discussing whether the children's division had investigated allegations of child abuse at Thayer. She said a State Technical Assistance Team was involved in the investigation of Roberto's death but didn't know how long that investigation would take.

Regardless, the fatality has caught the attention of Missouri child advocates.

Sen. Pat Dougherty, a St. Louis Democrat, would like to see more state regulation of teen homes. Missouri law exempts facilities from state licensing if they provide care, like Thayer does, ?in conjunction with an educational program.?

?The laws are so weak,? Dougherty said.

He plans to introduce a bill in the 2005 legislative session that would require state oversight for facilities such as Thayer. And though previous attempts at similar legislation have failed, Dougherty hopes the recent death ?serves the purpose to bring public debate out there.?

Ruth Ehresman, policy director of Citizens for Missouri's Children, a nonprofit child advocacy group based in St. Louis, doesn't like that there are six or more unregulated homes throughout Missouri.

?We require places where animals are kept to be inspected,? she said. ?And yet we're willing to allow children to be placed for 24 hours a day, away from their parents, in a place that doesn't require any oversight.?

Preventable tragedy?

Police reports show that about 10 a.m. Nov. 3, a Thayer official called Roberto's parents and asked whether Roberto had any medical problems because he was having a hard time breathing.

Roberto's father said his son didn't have any medical conditions.

Roberto ? who stood 6 feet tall and weighed 240 pounds ? was pronounced dead at 4:34 p.m. that day.

Through a relative, Victor and Gracia Reyes declined to discuss their son's case with The Star. But police reports show that Roberto had been confined to bed the day he died and that school officials were checking his vital signs ?every few hours.? During one checkup, the reports show, Roberto was unresponsive.

School officials performed CPR and called for emergency assistance. One portion of a police report indicated that 12 minutes elapsed between the time Roberto was found unresponsive and the call to 911.

Roberto eventually was transported to Cameron Regional Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead.

The autopsy was performed by the Jackson County medical examiner's office. A doctor there made the diagnosis that Roberto probably died of a spider bite. There is no definitive test to determine a spider bite fatality, said Caldwell County Coroner Gary Brown, but it's done primarily through elimination of other things.

Brown said that doctors couldn't determine the exact location of the bite, but that the autopsy and ensuing tests revealed ?breaking down of the protein,? presumably caused by spider venom.

A supplemental police report written by a Caldwell County sheriff's deputy, who was present at the autopsy along with Sheriff Kirby Brelsford, said the scrapes on Roberto's feet and toes indicated he hadn't been wearing shoes.

In addition to the scrapes, the report said there was a 2-inch bruise on the bottom of Roberto's right foot, and bruises on his chest and arms. There also was a bruise that covered most of his right shoulder and upper right arm.

Brown said he believed some of the bruising could have been caused by the spider bite, but not the scrapes. The police report shows that when a Caldwell County dispatcher asked a school official whether Roberto had been complaining about chest pain, the woman responded that he was ?flopping himself on the floor and probably got his muscles sore.? She also said other people had to help him walk because his knee muscles were sore from exercising.

Elsewhere in the report, a school employee said: ?(Roberto) had been playing a game for a week or so with us saying that he couldn't walk, and he would throw himself to the ground.?

The Child Fatality Review Panel ? which includes representatives from law enforcement, the state's children's division and several other disciplines ? said in its final report: ?The panel feels appropriate legislation dealing with access to the facility by juvenile authorities, social services and law enforcement should be enacted.?

Allegations

Tim Rocha of St. Joseph worked at Thayer for seven days last summer.

?By the second day,? he said, ?I was telling my wife, ?This isn't right.'??

So disgusted was Rocha, 41, that he asked some students for their parents' names and phone numbers so he could call them, an action that he said led to his firing. At least one of those parents yanked her child from the school.

Joanie Nations' son, Anthony, was at Thayer from June until September. Within an hour of her conversation with Rocha, she was making the 11-hour drive to Kidder from her Henderson, Texas, home. She remembers the phone call like this:

?(Rocha) was crying, and he told me, ?I just want you to know what's going on.' He told me Anthony was not being abused at that point by any of the staff there, but he said, ?I know it will happen eventually. Please go get your boy.'??

Rocha filed two reports of alleged child abuse with the Caldwell County sheriff's office in September, noting in one that a student was placed in ?half a chokehold? and that a Thayer employee then sat on the student's legs.

Rocha and others described a regimented, joyless setting that included students sleeping on the floor ? with only a thin pad and a sleeping bag between them and the concrete ? when they first arrived at the facility.

Cullen Parker, a resident of Texas, was a student at Thayer from November 2003 until January 2004.

He remembers students regularly being awakened and forced to ?bear crawl? for an hour or more through the snow. He also remembers a student's punishment for stealing a box of raisins: He was isolated for three days. Between 6 a.m. and 9 p.m., Parker said, the student had to stand in an area about 2 feet square and could sit for only 15 minutes every hour.

?I'll never forget it,? Parker, 17, said of his Thayer experience. ?If someone could record what went on there, even for a week, they'd go out of business.?

In May, three Thayer employees went to the Caldwell County sheriff's office. Incident reports say the employees saw or heard that:

? Students were stripped down to their underwear, tied up and laid on a concrete floor, and ice-cold water was poured on them every hour.

? Restroom breaks were so limited that students regularly soiled themselves. The restricted bathroom breaks led to various urinary-tract and bladder infections. One girl was forced to sit in a plastic tub containing urine for at least 2½ hours.

? One student was tethered to a four-wheeler and ?dragged around ? on the sand track.?

? A female student, a vegetarian, was forced to eat meatballs. The girl got sick and vomited in her hands. ?The girl was then forced to eat the vomit,? the report said.

Sheriff's Deputy Donald Fuller, who took the employees' statements, said he found them to be credible.

?We've had a few reports of similar allegations (at Thayer),? Fuller said. ?It's like the same stuff being said over and over again.?

Kanoy said that the investigation is still open.

Kris Kessinger, 27, one of the three employees who reported abusive treatment to Fuller in May, said she was fired after lodging the complaints.

?It makes me sick to think about it again,? she said of her time at Thayer. ?I don't think I had a day of work where I didn't have a kid cry: ?I can't do this. I want to go home. I'll never get out of here.'

?The parents have no idea what these kids are going through.?

Thayer defenders

The school in Kidder, a town of fewer than 300, houses students in two buildings. There are only three or four houses in the school's immediate view, and nearby traffic is just as likely to be a tractor carrying hay bales as anything else.

?Some people like it (the school), some don't,? said Charles Harpster, 74, a lifelong resident of Kidder. ?But I think they've proven that they're pretty good neighbors.?

The American School, based in Illinois, confirmed that Thayer uses its curriculum. The American School is a high school correspondence course that is accredited by the Commission on International and Trans-Regional Accreditation.

During downtime at Thayer, which costs as much as $4,000 a month per student, students listen to inspirational tapes and read inspirational books.

To Judy Mitchell of Ohio, sending her son to Thayer was ?the hardest thing I ever had to do.? But she did it in March 2003, and son Cole stayed until the following November.

The results?

?It saved his life,? she said. ?He did a 360-degree turnaround and, believe me, we tried everything imaginable.?

Cole acknowledged it was hard, she said, ?but he never spoke of abuse.? Now, she said, Cole is earning good grades at Camden Military Academy in South Carolina.

It's the kind of success story that Quinn, whose district includes Kidder, believes is indicative of the work Thayer does.

?A lot of these are really troubled kids,? Quinn said. ?They'd be in prison if they weren't there.?

But, Quinn said, the final report of the Child Fatality Review Panel said Roberto's death is something ?we definitely need to investigate further.?

?I think they definitely do some good,? Quinn said of Thayer. ?But we may need to examine just what they are doing.?

To reach Steve Rock, call

(816) 234-4338 or send e-mail to [email protected].


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First glance

? Police reports, as well as former students and employees of Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp and Boarding School, allege instances of physical and mental abuse at the facility near Cameron, Mo.

? Thayer's owners, John and Willa Bundy, said in a written response that the allegations are ?ludicrous and false.?
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #222 on: December 22, 2004, 11:20:00 PM »
hey grundler im rutherford you were just a resi camper for like a half day when i was there you came down with tippets how the fuck do you remember me? i arrived 8/22/03 left 12/20/04
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #223 on: December 22, 2004, 11:32:00 PM »
to all the ex cadets IM me @ nonesuch2890


-rutherford, chance
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #224 on: December 24, 2004, 08:41:00 PM »
Quote
On 2004-09-27 15:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"whats going on at thayer, why have they quit the construction and why are they letting sergeants go-everyone i knew that worked there has been let go without any reason-they say they are called in and let go-when ask why they are told they dont have to have a reason.  Is it because they are not Morman?  maybe not mean enough.  i know they are going to start writting up sgts that allow anyone but the team leaders to talk to them.  glad to hear windle is out of there, i knew him, he was ok.  kenyan i knew alittle and he seemed to smart for his own good. there was a girl there, her last name was brown, what ever happened to her?  the last i heard she was put in residency then moved back to bootcamp."


omggg ok so yeah brown was in boot camp when i left on november 13 she came back up then went back down for kind of getting mad with williams, browns just really depressed now, she wants to be home, shes young and shes doing a lot better and feels she should be home. and the comment on carey hahaha that was my cadet shes out now thank god, it wasnt the place for her and if anyone wants to talk IM me shreksdonkey1204 most of the people on here i know of but had left before i got there
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