AA Abundant Life Academy

[GregFL]

look at it this way. If someone said today, There is a chance that if you send your kid to live with your neighbor, he might molest them or he might actually improve their attitude, what would your response be.

What if your neighbor had been accused of molestation in the past? Convicted? What if 15 kids in the neighborhood would attest to it? Would you still do it?

That is the situation you have here. Hundreds of former students of various programs offering their testimony. Countless newspaper articles, convictions, exposees on tv, Deaths, suicides, mental illness, graduates on death row. And on and on and on.

Yet every day, kids are kidnapped, subjected to thought reform and abuse under the guise of helping them.

The parents that participate in this travesty should be ashamed.

[Anonymous]

I know Greg, and you have a point, but again; there are good programs; and there are kids who need them.

[Anonymous]

I've been trying to get in touch with you for awhile. Write me. Or call. You have my info.
KZ

[Antigen]

On 2004-03-31 16:11:00, CraigRogers wrote:

Sorry to expose you guys as being the characters behind the masks  . You are probably asking, "how did he know?"

Interesting shit! Do you think he really believes this? Or is he just playing to his own captive audience?

Sort of reminds me of something that happened a few years ago. When we picketted SAFE, Orlando, of course we came w/ bull horns, picket signs, flyers and had broadcast our plans as much as possible in order to boost participation.

But Loretta had this bizarre bit of theatre all planned out. When we showed up, some Guido lookin' dude whisked Weaver away in a car with dark tinted windows and everybody ran inside. Everyone except Loretta, that is. She stood there with her arms crossed in front of her in front of the door; apparently guarding her beloved Group. She remained stoic and resolute till Kim took the bullhorn and shouted "Loretta! You're closing off! What are you hiding?!", at which time Loretta snapped her hands to her sides like she was worried about getting started over.

Remember that FBI guy? I know you were lurking about taking pictures of us that day.  :rofl:

What experiences and history teach is this-that people and government never have learned anything from history, or acted on principles deduced from it.

--G.W.F Hegel (1770-1831)

[Antigen]

On 2004-03-31 17:16:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I've been trying to get in touch with you for awhile. Write me. Or call. You have my info.

KZ"

Who? Me? Someone else? Or everyone who reads this thread and has your contact info?

Save our planet; it's the only one with chocolate!

--Andi, domestic goddess

[Anonymous]

On 2004-03-31 16:58:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I can see were parents might be fearful of what they see here; but the problem with the premise is the scarry folks are the products of a program.

That is scarry.



I believe there are good programs. I believe there are kids who need them. But no matter how much research a parent does, a certain amount of trust is required to place a child in any program. And no program admits to being an abusive hell hole.

This is scarry.



Parents need to be able to make the decision, because the kid isn't thinking clearly; but then neither are the parents. They are stressed and angry maybe; both conditions that make smart people do stupid things.

This is scarry.



It would be much more helpful to everyone if ways and means to tell good from bad and ways and means to avoid letting emotions rule and ways and means to shut down and hold accountable the truly abusive, ect were hashed out instead of all this sniping at each other.



But maybe the issue itself is just to frought with emotion for the debate to take place without sniping. Appears to be the case.

 "

Karen Z., did you write this?  If so, that's scary
(not scarry).  
 :smile:

[Anonymous]

Well Ginger, your welcome to call or write anytime, but I was tawkin to Spots, as the header suggest.

Oh, other person; sorry if I scared you.
Sometime I spell things the way I think they ought to be spelt, rather than the way they are.

[Anonymous]

Speaking of Karen Burnett (aka Karen Z.), what is your position on Craig's allegations?  Do you also suspect and/or believe as he apparently does that Ginger/Fornits is a shill for the evil empire? I hope not, for it is this kind of narrow minded obsession with the literal translation of the Bible that causes Born Again's to lose touch with reality, and more importantly, view all those who are not BA's as controlled or obsessed by the *wicked* ways of the world. Including their own children.  THIS is what's SCARY.
Ginger/Fornits is not the enemy, your children are not the enemy.  Programs who change the hearts and minds of innocent children ARE THE ENEMEY, along with the scumbag ed cons and independent referral agents who make a living recruiting "clients" (sic) for the teen hurt industry.  

Anybody know a good EXORCIST?  Just kidding ... I think ....

 :scared:

[FBI GUY]

oh I remember well the picket of That  incarnation of the fine american institution called Safe/straight/seed. I conducted survellaince for hours on that day, lending support to squelch the coachroaches that just seemed to come and come to fight against fixing those kids.  I remember well that parents even pulled kids from the program in the days that followed.

you were there, all of you, ranting, frothing, talking to parents about your experiences. It was a sad day for the program, it served as a catalyst to really jump start this little anti program orgy.

That day is burned, etched into my memory. I will not forget, this I promise you.

[Troubled Turd]

Ginger is not evil, Creg IS. He is the spawn of SATAN. I agree now thit thees progrums suck. You want yer kids t' git strate? Yew sind them littel fukkkers down to me, I live in VA, I've got a shack that I can use to WHIP 'EM!!! WHIP THEIR FUKKIN LITTLE ASSES TIL THEY BLEED THEM DRUGGS OUTTA THER BEHINDS!!! And I won't charge yew much, cuz I know thet I do the Lord's work. They WILL git STRATE!!!!

[Anonymous]

on a more serious note one of the untold stories about miller newton's abusive operation in  new jersey was his use of the "Christian Heritage School" as a place to put his victims for a while when they reached third phase.  They were pulled out for setbacks, refreshers and the rest and no explanation was ever given to or sought by the "school" to explain where these kids were going or why they were pulled out.  As a practical matter the Christian Heritage School provided part of the cover that newton needed to run his con.  That was one religious school that was firmly committed to the lord and has the documented abuse of hundreds of adolescents in its past.

[Anonymous]

You know, if my child ever did (god forbid) have something that required residential treatment, I'd definitely send her to someplace run by someone a little less....er...eccentric.

Rogers is a very *strange* guy.

[GregFL]

On 2004-03-31 17:14:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I know Greg, and you have a point, but again; there are good programs; and there are kids who need them. "

Where?

What constitutes a good program?

How can you be sure?

With the countless graduates coming forward and saying they were forced to lie, to scared to tell how they felt, abused and mentally tortured during times they were saying they wanted to be in these programs, how do you descern which behavior modification techniques are mostly good and which are mostly bad? Which programs are mentally abusing children or just as bad, physically torturing them with subtle or overt behavior modification (read; brainwashing) techniques?

I have an idea...subject yourself for a year or two first, then admit your kid. I think then you would have a different frame of reference. But even that wouldn't work because you would approach your captivity with a matured adult brain, not that of a child.

Locking a child up and "modifying" what defines him/her as an individual is a crime against humanity, and doing it under the guise of helping them is akin to totalitarianism.

These residential treatment programs are all based on a lie, that behavior modification works in a beneficial way. It doesn't, not for most people, not most of the time, and it exposes your children to improper risks, destroys what is left of their childhood, and possibly creates mental illness and emotional distress.

You are wrong. The whole freaken lot of teen programs are bad, and kids don't need them, they need other things to help them make good choices.

[Anonymous]

There is residential treatment that is *not* based on Behavior Modification techniques.

An example would be emergency mental health hospitalizations that get a dangerously mentally ill patient stable on medication and then release him/her back into outpatient care.

Another example would be center for the profoundly mentally retarded or halfway-house type facilities for mentally disabled people who have a greater relative level of functionality.

The problem with the "teen help" industry is that it's a bad "solution" in search of a problem.  From the two cases I know of personally, and from all you survivors out there, it is obvious to me that many of the kids placed in these facilities are normal-to-bright pain-in-the-butt adolescents whose parents need to deal with their behavior, at home, as the responsible adults those parents allegedly are.

[Antigen]

I think you're talking about an entirely different definition of the term "program". Legitimate mental health facilities don't recruit through their patients' families. They don't go around planting propaganda designed to instill doubt and suspicion of non-existant mental illness. As far as I know, though there have been many credible reports of abuse in these types of settings, I don't think they present the same kind of problem that these other organizations do. Imperfect as it sometimes is, there's a fairly open, conventional system of evaluation and diagnosis inplace.

It's still quite possible to be committed unjustly, even in a legit setting. But I think it's probably the exception, not the rule in institutions attached to legitimate medical facilities. The Troubled Parent Industry is the inverse of that. It's like a do-it-yourself home dentistry movement. And everybody, in their view, could use a little work.

On 2004-03-31 20:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

The problem with the "teen help" industry is that it's a bad "solution" in search of a problem.

Ok, this is going in the quotes archive. Can I put some kind of name to it other than Anonymous?

India Indicas, Mr. Peabody?
-- Sherman