Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry
so when is it ok to force your children to do what the paren
Cayo Hueso:
Love that last post. It's so hard to find the balance between protecting them from themselves and letting them learn from their own mistakes. The older my kids get, the more I find that I need to let them learn for themselves...the lessons stick that way. It's been really hard to walk that line since I'm a survivor of an abusive treatment center. I wanted to stop my child from doing what she was doing, but you realize at some point that you can't STOP them...you can only teach and guide, as was said before. It has to start EARLY, it's not like you can have a kid get into trouble and THEN decide that you need to talk WITH them, not AT them. I've tried to treat my kids in adult manner when possible. That's not to say I put the same expectations on them as I would an adult...it was more of a respect thing for them. Seems that a lot of my kids' friends parents treat them more as reflections of themselves instead of treating them as their own person with their own ways of doing, learning, communicating etc.
Another part of this is the way in which we teach our kids about the dangers of drugs. This will probably bring down a lot of shit on me, but fuck it. I was very honest with my kids about not only my own drug use, but the fact that I don't believe that marijuana is harmful. I explained what I thought were the TRUE risks about pot and then went on to explain the dangers of the rest of the drugs. When the time came that they tried pot...they saw that I was being honest with them about it and BECAUSE of that, they BELIEVED me about the other ones. That's not to say that neither of them got into any trouble, but what I had to say about their actions carried MUCH MORE WEIGHT than if I would have just bought into the false scare tactics regarding marijuana. I liken it to dealing with the sex issue with teens. Like it or not, they're GOING TO HAVE SEX.....do I just say "don't do it, it's wrong" or do I explain ALL the reasons why I don't want them doing it, but then at the end hand them a condom and tell that if they are bound and determined, at least please be safe about it. Same thing with pot. The vast majority of kids are GOING TO TRY IT AT SOME POINT...no matter how "good" of a home they come from. Give them the TRUE facts...your credibility will go a lot further. Teach them that if they are bound and determined to try dope, then they better know the risks and they better know how to keep themselves safe.
What I did worked well with my kids, but obviously I'm not suggesting that my way is the best or only way. We all have to find our own way and as long as the "cure" is not worse than the "disease"...great. and I use those terms very loosely.
There are two kinds of people; those who's lives have been somehow touched by harsh tragedy and those you don't know very well.
-- Ginger Warbis
--- End quote ---
Anonymous:
Okay, but parents don't end up with a controlling child *unless* the family has controlling friends or family memebers whose misbehavior is tolerated by the parents.
Controlling behavior is a habitual pattern. All children *try* it---but the only ones who *repeat* it are the ones who find, when they try it, that it *works*.
If the child is controlling, the parents' behavior is a huge contributor to how the child got that way---the parent is either a control freak or a doormat.
The only way to deal with a control freak is never to allow the control tactics to work---and since many control freaks will escalate to physical abuse or property damage if thwarted, sometimes dealing with a control freak does mean cutting them out of you life.
There is a valid question, "Suppose you, as a parent, have been a doormat for the spouse or the inlaws or the boss and your kid has already picked up the controlling behavior. You're changing, but your kid is still controlling. What do you do?"
Yes, this is a good reason for removing a child from the home. But you give him/her a clear list of House Rules defining acceptable and unacceptable behavior, and consequences, FIRST.
If the child is controlling and is not going to be allowed to control in future, that means the rules of his/her home are changing from what he's been raised with and the only way he/she knows to Something Else.
It's not fair to ship the kid off without making the new House Rules and consequences clear and consistent and follow-able and giving the kid a chance to live up to the rules.
And it can't be "one screwup and off you go," and there has to be a sane way to atone for transgressions and get back in Mommy and Daddy's "good books"---the standard has to be sane and achievable by that child.
The problem with actually doing this is that doormats tend to be ragers.
Doormats tend to take the controlling behavior, and take it, and take it, and take it, and blow up one day out of the blue and suddenly refuse to take it anymore and go off in a huge technicolor rage explosion---like shipping the kid off to boarding school.
Or like saying "one more screwup and off you go" (typical rage behavior---it *seems* to set a standard, but it's an inherently unachievable standard, because henceforth only perfection will do--or at least that's the message the kid gets, and it's usually the one the parent means, despite his or her later protests to the contrary)---and the kid feels hopelessly defective and so provides the screwup---self-fulfilling prophecy.
Control freak parents ain't perzactly normal, but parents who raise control freaks ain't normal, either. :roll:
Yes, good parents can have bad kids---usually because there's something biologically wrong with the kid that goes incorrectly diagnosed and incorrectly treated---(example--Kip Kinkle and Luke Woodham were psychotic and probably needed *at least* outpatient commitment on antipsychotic drugs).
When you have a bad kid without a biological problem, then *something* environmental happened to fuck the kid up. Usually either something the parents did or negligently allowed.
Cayo Hueso:
--- Quote ---On 2004-01-29 14:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Okay, but parents don't end up with a controlling child *unless* the family has controlling friends or family memebers whose misbehavior is tolerated by the parents.
--- End quote ---
couldn't agree more. that's what I meant about starting early.
Scoundrels are predictable, but you're a man of honor and that frightens me.
Robert Heinlein, Glory Road.
--- End quote ---
_________________
St. Pete Straight
early 80s
[ This Message was edited by: cayohueso on 2004-01-29 14:34 ]
Anonymous:
Always, no sometimes, I think it?s me, but you know I know when it?s a dream.
I think I know I mean a ?yes? but it?s all wrong,
that is I think I disagree.
There is such a thing as a strong willed child - who is just 'that way'.
They are so from the day their born, and they remain so all threwout life.
They are natural born leaders and the folks who get the impossible accomplished. But they also drive perfectly good parents up a wall.
Bundle this strong will with complicating factors such as a mental illness or proclivity for addiction; and you have every parent?s nightmare; and its no ones fault.
Anonymous:
You are right. There are children born with a proclivity for hyper behavior, deviant behavior, and so forth. However, there are parents who have success with them by the way in which they respond. These children need very specific environments in order to succeed. It is the parent's responsibility to find out what it is. Who said being a parent was easy?
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