Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry

Apologia - Serious debate only, please!

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Anonymous:
Ok, well if you're up for it, I'll give you some depth while you're away. Then I'll be busy later and you can give me some homework.


--- Quote ---On 2003-12-17 21:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

To both Ginger and GregFL - The evidence is what I learned by my relatives stay there. He is much better off because of what he learned about himself. Instead of the angry, defeated, drug dependent kid that went there, he's very much into doing his own thing now in a much healthier way- he's got a great sense of humor, is working toward his electrical engineering degree, has a healthy relationship with a girl and no longer puts limits on himself if he really wants something to happen. He gained new insights and skills, doesnt dwell on the past and seems to have a great life. And yes, only time will tell, but he's been in college a while and seems to be enjoying his life in a non-destructive way. He's taught me a lot.

--- End quote ---

I have had the same observation w/ my daughter. But I don't attrubute it to the people who sought to control her over the past couple of years (it wasn't just the boyfriend, the whole extended family is sick; they've all worked for him full time since he was a toddler) I attribute her success to her having had time to think, to grow up and to figure it out and to break away.

That's what usually happens. I have so much broader a perspective on this, having been involved in the industry for, literally, almost as long as I can remember. When I was a little kid, not just my family, but a significant number of families in our area went through The Seed. The program structure was a little different, but the basic method was the same; based on Synanon and very similar to methods used to break down American POWs captured during the Korean war.

For the most part, those of us "blessed" with this kind of "help" have not done as well, by any measure, as those who just grew up without all the "help". Are families are not as close, our careers not as successful, we use more drugs, drink more, are more angry and confrontational, have more nightmares, more divorces, more suicides and accute mental illness than the allegedly bad influences our parents sought to protect us from. Those folks, the ones we were never allowed to be friends with again for fear of getting sent (or sent back) to the program are firemen and city councelmen, business owners and so forth, enjoying life in the same town my whole family left as soon as possible to escape the constant threat of getting put back on front row.

You say that WWASP has only been around for a couple of years and that only one child has died in their care. You probably don't know this, but neither claim is really completely ture.

Here's some sworn testimony from 3 WWASP clients about the one girl who killed herself. It seems unlikely that she expected to survive the leap from the 4th floor. She was escaping, alright, but wasn't trying for the gate.
http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/wwasp/toc.htm

WWASP might be generally very good at avoiding actually killing their charges and at preventing suicide while the kids are in the program. So was Straight. But I never, in all my life before or since, saw so many people cutting themselves or running full speed, head first into walls and steel support beams as when I was in the Program. And, of the 12,000 allegedly successful graduates they claim (most of whom they've never talked to since), we know of 40 deaths, over half of which have been suicides. Among survivors, just take a look around these forums!

The cover story is that the kids are all suffering symptoms of withdrawal; responding to bad feelings about themselves that they brought with them and now are unable to mask w/ drugs. That, friend, is a bald faced lie. These problems simply are not anywhere near as prevalent among the populations from which these kids have been rescued.


--- Quote ---I don't have an answer to the "stupid rules" question, other than my view earlier. I should ask someone that's been there that learned what they're all about. Maybe it's as simple as cause and effect.

--- End quote ---


I can tell you about how that works. It's not anything like the way they advertize. Have you ever been romantically involved with an insanely jealous lover, supported by his maniacally co-dependent family? Have you ever known someone in that situation? Well, imagine that X100, but you're only 14 and you can't just storm out and go for a walk when the pressure gets to be too much. You are under intense scrutiny at every moment. You become obsessed with fear of forgetting one of the hundreds of rules and rituals. You're afraid to smile at someone or to neglect to notice someone else's minor infraction. The punishments for these minor failings can be extremely severe and you dare not give away the slightest hint of resentment or resistance. Sympathy for another kid who's getting sanctioned unfairly is also a cardinal sin; you dare not respond in any way but entheusiastic solidarity w/ the Program or there's more where that came from.

At any given moment, you might be dreaming of the day, sometime soon, when you'll get that hour off campus or call home or graduation. But you dare not get your hopes up too high because some minor little mis-step, or even a wholely false allegation by someone else, might take it all away. It is not like the kinds of rules and supervision you'll find in any workplace outside of a Communist bloc country. It is relentless, 24/7/365 and your sentence is uncertain. You're in a situation where everything is entirely beyond your control, and yet everything is your fault.

This is not accidental. This regimen puts most people in a mental state where they're very much more easily manipulated. Add to that, usually inadequate sleep (especially for kids who are under extra sanctions), minimal, often completely inadequate nutrition and the very disorienting effect of being completely cut off from the real world. I was fortunate in that I was familiar enough with the program when I went in that that aspect of it didn't have as big an impact on me. I just kept telling myself "It's all theatre, I'll get out one day".

Antigen:

--- Quote ---On 2003-12-18 10:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

Greg - Where did I personally say this kid would be dead, in jail, etc.?
--- End quote ---

Just a note. A couple of years ago, TV news magazine, 48 Hours, did an investigative report on WWASP. That's how I came to know about WWASP; a friend recomended that I watch that upcoming episode. Many aspects of the story were horrifyingly familiar to me. Among them, one of the kids interviewed repeated that same mantra, "If it hadn't been for WWASP, I would be dead, insane or in the gutter by now."

I'm not sure of the exact details of whatever connections might exist between WWASP and the Seed branch of the Program. But you tell me; how does a bizarre statement like that make the trip over 2 decades and half a continent from my childhood to this kid's?


"Youths who go through the TASKS seminars sign a pledge of secrecy, so little is known about what happens in them."

http://www.ytyt.org/infobank/document.cfm/parent/522

What's up with that? Why hide your light under a bushel, eh?

More excellent info:

--- Quote ---In trauma-inducing captivity situations, writes reviewer Laura J. Cohen in describing Judith Lewis Herman?s 1992 book Trauma and Recovery, fear is produced "by inconsistent and unpredictable outbursts of violence and by capricious enforcement of petty rules." Captors work to eliminate victims? sense of autonomy by close scrutiny and tight control over their body and bodily functions. What is eaten and when it is eaten, what clothing is worn, timing of sleep and toiletting, all activities of daily living are out of the victim?s control in traumatic captivity. Even when the victim?s basic physical needs are adequately met, this assault on bodily autonomy shames and demoralizes.

From: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =11&Sort=D

--- End quote ---


 
History gives us a kind of chart, and we dare not surrender even a small rushlight in the darkness. The hasty reformer who does not remember the past will find himself condemned to repeat it.
--John Buchan
--- End quote ---




[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2003-12-18 13:26 ]

Antigen:
Just one more gem from the above referenced article:


--- Quote ---1. How to Drive a Kid Crazy.

Writes one 14-year-old about his stay in a mental rehab facility:

"If you do what they want, you are manipulating. If you don't, then you are defiant. If you walk around the ward, then you are pacing, if you sit down, then you are withdrawn. If you say you're sick, then you're trying to get attention. If you say you're not sick, then you are in denial. If you do your schoolwork right then you are a perfectionist who is obsessive about details. If you make mistakes, then you are sloppy and obviously don't care about education. And you know what? My doctor says this hospital is good for me because it's consistent."

--- End quote ---

The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad.
-- Salvador Dali

--- End quote ---

Anonymous:
Where are the public schools that restrain or isolate kids for looking out the window or looking at a member of the opposite sex?

There probably aren't many because that is ABUSE!  And because it doesn't do anything to help anyone.

Do you really think preventing girls from looking at guys is going to prevent them from having sexual thoughts or from trying to act on them when they aren't observed?  Why would you *want* to prevent the natural developmental process of human sexuality, which, like it or not, flowers during the teen years?  

Do you think your parents should have prevented you having a boyfriend or any dates?  young men and women haven't changed-- it's just that parents are more hysterical than ever about teen sex-- even though there's lower teen pregnancy and higher rates of safe sex than when the today's parents were young.

And does it really make sense to lock up a kid and deny him a normal adolescence because he engages in the *normal* activity (it is done by 50% of all high schoolers) of trying marijuana or drinking alcohol (done by 80% of high school seniors)?  

What gives you the right to deny someone liberty for years based on something that you don't like?

I could understand if there were evidence that youthful pot smoking and drinking *typically* lead to problems.  But we've got over half the population engaged in this-- and the vast majority of them live till 65 or older and life expectancy is going up, not down.

I could also understand if there were evidence that youthful MJ smoking or drinking caused serious academic problems in the majority-- but again, this is simply not true.

Also, I could understand if potsmoking lead to addiction in the majority of cases-- but for the vast majority, they never even try hard drugs, let alone become addicted to them.  Only 1% of the population has even tried heroin, for example-- yet 50% have smoked pot.  Gateway?  Not really.

Given this, there is simply no justification for sending them away and lowering their educational prospects (let's be real Harvard isn't going to look on WWASP as highly as a selective prep school or good public school and let's be real that learning through worksheets doesn't do you at all well preparing for science, math, pre-med or anything else that requires analytical thought).

In fact, the research finds that THE BEST ANTIDOTE TO ADDICTION IS EDUCATION.  Despite all the nonsense about addiction being an equal opportunity disease, the fact is that lasting chronic drug problems are far more common amongst those with less education and fewer employment opportunities.  So, you get your kid into a worse school *and* you spend the college fund on WWASP, thereby making the odds that he will have a lasting addiction greater, not lower.

Finally, you are confusing correlation and cause when you say that WWASP helped your relative.  You cannot know this.  The only way you could tell is if he had an identical twin that didn't go and got worse, not better-- and even then, your smaple size would be too small for any real conclusions to be drawn.

Would you want your cancer treatment based on "so and so said this works"?  Why would you give your children's mental health care any lower standard?

If you really care about your kids, you would look at the language in the WWASP contract-- which says that they will balance the weight of costs v. the weight of seeking medical care before letting your kid see a physician and run the opposite direction.

Btw,did you know how many teens die, total, in the US population each year.  20,000-- from all causes, including cancer, DWI's etc.  There are 30 million teens.  There is absolutely no way that WWASP's claims that your kid will be dead if he doesn't attend is true.

If we know that there are 30 million teens, 15 million are potsmokers and to be overly generous, 5 million are seriously abusing drugs or alcohol.  That's a death rate of 13 in 1000, just over 1/100th of a percent.  And we haven't even factored out the deaths that are from disease and non-drug/alcohol accidents.

Don't fall for the lies and the fear-mongering.  Even genuine heroin addicts, who have the worst prognosis, only die at a rate of 1-2% per year-- and that's with HIV included.  That adds up quickly, but the odds of your potsmoking binge drinker or promiscuous runaway dying from their behavior are not high.

The odds of being traumatized in an environment with no oversight where parents are told to dismiss all complaints as malingering and where employees are directed to consider cost before seeing a doctor,however....

Antigen:

--- Quote ---On 2003-12-18 17:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"



Where are the public schools that restrain or isolate kids for looking out the window or looking at a member of the opposite sex?



There probably aren't many because that is ABUSE!  And because it doesn't do anything to help anyone.

--- End quote ---

In Broward, they don't do it on campus. They have a distributed system. The first stage of entry that looks a whole lot like the Program is called JIF (Juvenile Intervention Facility). It's located in downtown Ft. Lauderdale, near the jail, courthouse and the Crystal Cathedral, as locals sometimes call the 5 story glass office building that houses the school district administration offices.
http://www.firn.edu/schools/broward/seagull/jifinfo.htm

Kids don't just get sent there for skipping school, like the web page says. They can land up there for any infraction, including contempt of cop, that would get any adult to ask them to leave campus.


--- Quote ---
Do you really think preventing girls from looking at guys is going to prevent them from having sexual thoughts or from trying to act on them when they aren't observed?  Why would you *want* to prevent the natural developmental process of human sexuality, which, like it or not, flowers during the teen years?  

--- End quote ---


Because sexuality is an emotional hot-button and a direct line to personal autonomy.


If quitting drugs means joining the war on terrorism, does this portend the fire bombing of Amsterdamn ?

--Felton Manifestation
--- End quote ---


_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
   10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous

[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2003-12-18 18:43 ]

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