Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry
Apologia - Serious debate only, please!
Anonymous:
Greg - Where did I personally say this kid would be dead, in jail, etc.? I'm not here to talk about your statistics of kids in programs. I was in a program. It didn't work, I didn't want it to work. The time there was only a few months and I was only 14. It wasn't a private pay school. I don't hate my mother, I didn't have any trauma from being there and I don't wonder what my life would be like if I hadn't gone there. It was what it was...a way to get me away from what I was doing to myself, even for a short time. I'm not even sure their "program" had all the opportunities that the current programs like wwasp, CEDU, etc., have now. It's really not important to me.
You are focusing on the money aspect of these programs. If some of the state run facilities weren't funded, it would cost about 350.00 per day per person on the average. I did a little math and found that wwasp schools range from $70-133 per day for each student. It gives the kids time to internalize (apply) what they learn so the time there increases the financial commitment.
I've met some very successful grads from my relative's school. I only know one that fell back to drugs, but is now doing better. I'm not looking at statistics. I look at the person and what they're doing. People are not statistics to justify the monetary commitment. You're assuming they've endured torture. Are you talking about self imposed torture or physical torture at the hands of a staff person? I'd be careful of the answer to that one. You have your view, I have mine. They're both valid to each of us.
Is there really a way to measure success? Success for one person is different for another. My success in business could mean making $40,000 a year, but to another it would mean making $150,000 a year as an example.
Clearly a death in a program would create fear in most people. Of the thousands of kids in a wwasp program, I know of only one that died. I think she bolted from the group in what could have been a runaway attempt. One is hard to take. Every life is precious.
I get that this discussion is supposed to go somewhere? You feel these programs are bad, I feel there's a time and place for them and on the whole do an excellent job of what they are intended for. Neither of us is going to change our views. In a world of illusions, we wouldn't need this kind of help, nor would we need physicians to heal cancer or the military to defend our freedom.
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2003-12-18 10:27:00, Antigen wrote:
You point to one individual, kin to you, as proof of efficacy. Do you discount out of hand everyone else who's risking legal retalliation from WWASP to tell the other side of the story?
And can you explain what it is about the Program that works? How does it work? And can you point to any evidence derived from the tens or hundreds of thousands of former clients to support your assertion that the program is even somewhat likely to be more helpful than harmful?
--- End quote ---
Ginger - I just read your post. I'm out for a while, but will respond when I return.
Added a missing end quote.
[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2003-12-18 11:28 ]
Kiwi:
--- Quote ---Of the thousands of kids in a wwasp program, I know of only one that died. I think she bolted from the group in what could have been a runaway attempt.
--- End quote ---
She didn't bolt, she was given permission to leave the room to get something. She took the opportunity of being unsupervised to jump from the upper floor of a building. Though Jay Kay likes to make out it was an escape attempt, I have read nothing that says it was anywhere near the perimeter. You are also forgetting at least two others who killed themselves when their parents threatened to send them back.
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2003-12-18 10:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Greg - Where did I personally say this kid would be dead, in jail, etc.? I'm not here to talk about your statistics of kids in programs. I was in a program. It didn't work, I didn't want it to work. The time there was only a few months and I was only 14. It wasn't a private pay school. I don't hate my mother, I didn't have any trauma from being there and I don't wonder what my life would be like if I hadn't gone there. It was what it was...a way to get me away from what I was doing to myself, even for a short time. I'm not even sure their "program" had all the opportunities that the current programs like wwasp, CEDU, etc., have now. It's really not important to me.
You are focusing on the money aspect of these programs. If some of the state run facilities weren't funded, it would cost about 350.00 per day per person on the average. I did a little math and found that wwasp schools range from $70-133 per day for each student. It gives the kids time to internalize (apply) what they learn so the time there increases the financial commitment.
I've met some very successful grads from my relative's school. I only know one that fell back to drugs, but is now doing better. I'm not looking at statistics. I look at the person and what they're doing. People are not statistics to justify the monetary commitment. You're assuming they've endured torture. Are you talking about self imposed torture or physical torture at the hands of a staff person? I'd be careful of the answer to that one. You have your view, I have mine. They're both valid to each of us.
Is there really a way to measure success? Success for one person is different for another. My success in business could mean making $40,000 a year, but to another it would mean making $150,000 a year as an example.
Clearly a death in a program would create fear in most people. Of the thousands of kids in a wwasp program, I know of only one that died. I think she bolted from the group in what could have been a runaway attempt. One is hard to take. Every life is precious.
I get that this discussion is supposed to go somewhere? You feel these programs are bad, I feel there's a time and place for them and on the whole do an excellent job of what they are intended for. Neither of us is going to change our views. In a world of illusions, we wouldn't need this kind of help, nor would we need physicians to heal cancer or the military to defend our freedom. "
--- End quote ---
You never did use the term Dead, Insane or In jail, Anon, but this is the well established program line for over 30 years used to justify the extreme, to use your word, "torture" placed on these children.
Since you say "neither of us is going to change our views" then this is where I bow out of this discussion. It is proof positive you aren't here for debate, only to hear yourself speak in circles.
I am forever amazed that people who haven't been thru the program themselves can actually hear people who have explained why the program violates so many people and then witness it for themselves on these message boards and then shut their ears to the truth. Hell, even our congress issued a report almost 30 years ago likening a predecessor program to brainwashing tactics used on Prisoners of war and hardly anyone listened. In fact, our future ambassador to Italy, deeply involved in the program, summarily ignored it and helped start Straight Inc. He apparently felt as you, that there was a "place" for these programs.
You have demonstrated once again that my amazement in peoples ability to ignore the truth is misplaced.
Good day to you and to your relative.
Anonymous:
sorry, forgot to log in, the above post is mine.
GregFL
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version