Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry
Apologia - Serious debate only, please!
Antigen:
Deb, These two paragraphs interests me the most. I'm all about figuring out why these places are in demand these days.
--- Quote ---On 2004-01-03 17:26:00, Deborah wrote:
Residential treatment is typically the last resort for over-stressed families. For example, children in this study also had emotional and behavioral disorders (EBD), conduct disorders and oppositional behaviors that further complicated their AD/HD symptoms. About one-third of the children in the study also had general anxiety, separation anxiety, or depression, or some combination of all three. Almost all of the participants came from low-income, single-parent families.
Wilmshurst theorizes that fear may have been a factor. "Removal from the home may have served to exacerbate existing levels of anxiety, resulting in excessive worry about their future, concern about past behavior, and a heightened awareness of the potential of removal again," she said. She also speculates that at least some of the difference may have been caused by interaction with other troubled children at the residential facility.
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Yes, I would agree with those theries. Additionally, I can tell you from firsthand experience that fear of removal, fear of mysterious personality altering "treatments" and constant scrutiny and worry by the crazy adults can also contribute significantly to all of the symptoms these programs promise to cure.
It is a vicious circle.
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.
George Washington
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Anonymous:
Ginger - I don't reject the criticism, honestly. Those that have a bad experience truly believe it, just like those that have a good experience believe it. I think I said way back that humans work for this program. Humans make mistakes. I personally can't say I believe that certain people were abused just because they said they were. I know so many that have told me they were not abused, but again, it's heresay. My relative was never hurt or brainwashed into thinking what they wanted him to think. He had a choice!
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2004-01-03 17:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
Wheres the degrees? Where the scientific data? Wheres the experince?
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Good question! Where are the degrees and scientific data showing that this treatment method is safe or effective?
Your insisting that I prove that the Program is unsafe and ineffective is just rediculous. You know very well I've not been in a WWASP program. However, I have read a lot of different accounts from a lot of different people, many of them very well credentialed, who tell me that it's neither safe nor beneficial. It seems to be very effective at slavemaking. That's about it.
When an innocent Californian millionaire gets killed by a drug squad
trying to seize his house with a bogus search warrant, people better ask themselves if they really want to turn their cops into money-makers.
--Vancouver Police Const. Gil Puder
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Anonymous:
Ginger - I hope you're not talking about well-credentialed people being on this board. I think we're all just stating our experiences and knowledge. From what I read from you, you're anti_ Dr. Phil, anti- Oprah, anti-Tony Robbins, or anyone that sees there's a whole lot more in the world outside of our little boxes. Not one of these people tell us HOW to think, and if we don't think that way, then we're wrong. You are not wrong in what you say. It's valid to me, for whatever it's worth.
I just don't see where I should discount a program that has thousands of people that have benefited in a positive way. I'm supposed to fear wwasp because a few people on this board say I should?
If you can weed out those that have an agenda against wwasp, just wwasp, then I might at least listen with an open heart. So far, I've not been able to weed out those with the agenda. Care to enlighten me?
Antigen:
--- Quote ---On 2004-01-03 18:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ginger - I hope you're not talking about well-credentialed people being on this board.
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You might actually be surprised at who some of our readers are. But I was really refering to some of the medical journal authors Deborah has quoted recently and to people like Singer and Lifton.
--- Quote ---I think we're all just stating our experiences and knowledge. From what I read from you, you're anti_ Dr. Phil, anti- Oprah, anti-Tony Robbins, or anyone that sees there's a whole lot more in the world outside of our little boxes.
--- End quote ---
Well, you might define that group that way. I would define them as people who advocate for better living through dissolusion of our identities.
--- Quote ---Not one of these people tell us HOW to think, and if we don't think that way, then we're wrong. You are not wrong in what you say. It's valid to me, for whatever it's worth.
--- End quote ---
You're trippin', dude! That's exactly what all of these people do for a living.
--- Quote ---
I just don't see where I should discount a program that has thousands of people that have benefited in a positive way. I'm supposed to fear wwasp because a few people on this board say I should?
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No. But you should not turn over your will to them. You should not trust and believe them unconditionally and without question. If 100 kids say they were tortured w/ physical pain, deprivation of basic physical necessities (such as adequate sleep) and in other, subtle ways, then you should not assume they're all making it up just becase the people selling the Program say they are.
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If you can weed out those that have an agenda against wwasp, just wwasp, then I might at least listen with an open heart. So far, I've not been able to weed out those with the agenda. Care to enlighten me? "
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Buddy, you've come to the right place. The only people around here who think WWASP is the only problem are those who are already under suit by them. All the rest of us pretty much agree that
1) These programs are not just examples of a good concept poorly implimented. The concept itself can be very harmful and tends to foster the kinds of abuses we're hearing about.
2) Not so many of us, but I think a growing number understand that the people who operate these programs believe in what they're doing. They're lying to themselves about it and believe that what they tell others is the truth. But most of them have never seriously examined the evidence. That's sort of frowned upon in Program culture.
Writing about music is like dancing about architecture.
--
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