Author Topic: WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"  (Read 9323 times)

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Offline FaceKhan

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WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2001, 02:24:35 AM »
Re: WAVE america
Yeah a big security company (pennington or something like that) came up with that bright idea. They did not realize the obvious references to the film, until after they got tackled by the press.  

Slavish discipline makes a slavish temper... If severity carry'd to the
highest pitch does prevail, and works a cure upon the present unruly
distemper, it often brings in the room of it a worse and more dangerous
disease, by breaking the mind; and then, in the place of a disorderly young
fellow, you have a low spirited moap'd creature, who, however with his
unnatural sobriety he may please silly people, who commend tame unactive
children, because they make no noise, nor give them any trouble; yet at
last, will probably prove as uncomfortable a thing to his friends, as he
will be all his life an useless thing to himself and others... Beating them,
and all other sorts of slavish and corporal punishments, are not the
discipline fit to be used in the education of those we would have wise,
good, and ingenuous men...
John Locke, 1692

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
All of the darkness of the world cannot put out the light of one small candle.\"

Offline FaceKhan

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WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2001, 09:10:54 PM »
Ahh, Finally I find the proof that struggling teens is evil
www.strugglingteens.com/a...sit02.html


In 1993 and 1998 (printed in 99), Lon Woodbury, reviewed the program run by Steve Gage and Karol Lee, giving it much praise. Including things like "Sitting in their living room after dinner, the sense of safety at Royal Haven is almost tangible. "


A year later Gage was arrested, tried, and plead guilty to 121 counts of theft, fraud, rape, sexual molestation, statutory rape, and a bunch of other felonies. He was given 45 years in prison, and will be eligible for parole in 36 years. So much for the trustworthieness of Struggling Teens program review system.


In other news: I think my friend is definitely ok, and that whatever changes he was supposed to have undergone at his wildnernes program are wearing off as he gets used to being home again. The program is a scam and I hope that one day he will see that but, he seems less and less different than he was everytime I see him. These wildnerness programs may change people while they are out in the wildnerness but when they get back home and realize their parents are still the same neurotic lunatics and alcoholics that they were when they left, their student's  "I really love my mom." rhetoric begins to fade away. My only real concerns about the program I have right now, is the untrained/unlicensed staff, the foney therapy, and the extended stay program which seems to say Behavior modification boarding school all over it.  

Slavish discipline makes a slavish temper... If severity carry'd to the
highest pitch does prevail, and works a cure upon the present unruly
distemper, it often brings in the room of it a worse and more dangerous
disease, by breaking the mind; and then, in the place of a disorderly young
fellow, you have a low spirited moap'd creature, who, however with his
unnatural sobriety he may please silly people, who commend tame unactive
children, because they make no noise, nor give them any trouble; yet at
last, will probably prove as uncomfortable a thing to his friends, as he
will be all his life an useless thing to himself and others... Beating them,
and all other sorts of slavish and corporal punishments, are not the
discipline fit to be used in the education of those we would have wise,
good, and ingenuous men...
John Locke, 1692

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
All of the darkness of the world cannot put out the light of one small candle.\"

Offline Antigen

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WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2001, 02:27:01 PM »
It's survivable
I'm glad your friend is ok. Now I've got a couple of trained, credentialed and, btw, deputised altruists trying to help my daughter to better living through coercion. God help her if they succeed.  

-If there's a worse idea going than locking kids up for victimless crimes, it's probably locking them in close proximity to some tyrannical altruist bent on helping them even if it kills them.
http://trebach.org/conference.html'>Saving our Children from Drug Treatment Abuse

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
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Offline THEA

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WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2001, 11:05:53 PM »
duped parents
As some of you know, this has been an ongoing issue.  The hardest part of the Straight experience was knowing it was at the hands of my own parents.  I have expressed before I would take better precautions with my cat, much less a human being.. yet Straight was a dumping ground for parents that wanted someone to "fix" their children.  How do we get past it?  I don't know.  I never really did get a true apology.  Just a "we did not know it was that bad, or the chrch reccommended it, the school counseler referred us" etc, etc.  How could you not see the horrors?  I had physical marks.... I begged to be taken out.  And even though i have forgiven there are days it is so hard to forget.


thea

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Offline jeff belflower

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WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2001, 01:54:18 AM »
Re: duped parents
Remember the friday night open meetings with the parents standing up and talking with their kid. Love ya, and start crying and all that crap. Love ya, love ya, i feel like pukin. We stand firm behind the program. Yea right, if you told them the attrocities you would be started over, as a newcomer an oldcomer would be there at all times to listen to the fuckin conversation. The parents had raps that told them to be strong. This was the biggest form of brainwashing in the world. Remember after you sat down from relating, the group would say LOVE YA, I hated that shit. If you didn't conform you would be beat up and sat on and given peanut butter diet. LOVE YA, this was a sick form of entertainment for the sicko Dr. Newton. Love ya Dr. Newton. We were not given the opportunity nor priveledge of letting the parents know the truth, thus, a true cult. oh, better sit up and flap my arms, I'm getting written up by a 5th phaser. Maybe I'll be blasted after open meeting. Oh no, Help me. Love ya, have a seat and fuck you.

This was the jist of my four freakin years in hell.

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Offline sullyceltic

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WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM »
Re: duped parents
couldn't agree more, jeff. our stays, of whatever length, at

whatever program, were thanks in large part to the clever

and tricky manipulative ways of the folks that marketed these

warehouses to the parental public with any kid over twelve who had skipped school even once.


some parents are still brainwashed. people have posted on here a lot saying that their parents still believe that the program was the best thing they ever did for their kid.

my parents are split on the issue.


the rules are what made everything happen. the environment of paranoia is what got things accomplished in there. in both the parent raps and in our group, fear is what held everything together. i have come to believe that all of rules were concieved long ago and experimented with in programs before us - and are being tested even today.


"as I slooshied, i knew such lovely pictures"

-Alexander deLarge

A Clockwork Orange

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Offline Antigen

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WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2001, 04:25:11 PM »
The Nature of Coercion
I forgave my dad for his part in my nightmare just as soon as he quit taking part. Didn't really understand beyond that his intentions were good and he'd made an honest mistake.

Now that I'm the grown up, I understand completely. What do you do when your kid is making serious, life altering mistakes? How do you help someone who doesn't want your help? How do you deal with it when your child is acting asif she doesn't love you any more?


Most people haven't had cause to give as much thought to these questions as we have.


The 'authorities', and by this I mean everyone from the school resource officer or guidance counselor to the psychiatric and treatment pros, will tell you that you MUST take responsibility for your child's welfare. Even if they hate you for it, they'll thank you later. And if you fail to take their advice, they'll act on your behalf and 'help' your child for you. You might even be charged yourself with criminal child neglect. If you have younger children, the professionals might just decide that you're not fit to care for them either.


I don't think they fully apreciate the impact of coercion, loss of autonomy, privacy and dignity. 20 years ago, the only threat held over the parents' heads were the over-stated dangers of drug use or involvement in 'drug culture', the threat of their children landing in prison and the threat of being condemned by their peers as bad parents.

These days, the stakes are much higher. I don't know exactly what these altruistic bullies might have in mind for my family. But I won't ever throw my kids to the wolves to please them. I understand why people do that; you'd do anything to save your kids and it's only natural to defer to the authorities and experts; to trust that they know what's best and are acting on the best intentions. But that's not how bullies think, I know that from firsthand experience. My dad didn't have the benefit of the education I have.

-If there's a worse idea going than locking kids up for victimless crimes, it's probably locking them in close proximity to some tyrannical altruist bent on helping them even if it kills them.
http://trebach.org/conference.html'>Saving our Children from Drug Treatment Abuse

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"Don\'t let the past remind us of what we are not now."
~ Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Sweet Judy Blue Eyes

Offline jeff belflower

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WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2001, 06:02:03 PM »
straight
I have been out of that hated program now for a greatful twenty years. I still have horrifying dreams of being trapped and people yelling at me or being threatened with my family leaving me forever or being sent to a mental hospital. After around ten years of being out of there I wasn't surprised to learn that my parents were still sending them money and still letting parents stay at my parents house for so called emotional support. One day I visited my parents around ten years ago and say a young couple there. I just thought it was a friend of theirs from church or something. After I was there a while I asked my parents who these people were. I was shocked to find out that they were newcomer parents that had just put their kid in the Orlando branch. I was horrified because still after all these years they were supporting that awful place. I long knew that they were sending money to them, because I snuck in my dad's files one night and saw a billion receipt(tax deductable of course), that were given to straight in the behalf of a straight life. Well, when they found out I was the outcast from straight they were all nice to me and were asking me quenstions about the program. Finally, they asked me, so what do you think about straight. I had been awaiting this question because no one beleived me when I told them the horrible things that had been done. I started telling them about how it ruined my life and how terrible the program was. I broke down in tears telling them about this horrible place. Luckily my parents were out of the room, so I was allowed to tell this story without the usual interruption from my parents telling me it was time to leave or to shutup like they normally do being their own rightious selves. I really hope that my story sunk into these new straight parents heads because if it did I perhaps saved a family from the hell that I had to go through. If my parents would have been in the room I know they would have stopped me from telling my story and perhaps more lives would have been ruined. I was glad to return the next day to find they parents were gone and my parents intervention was not taken as good as it would have been. I dread to think of the awful stories my parents told these parents about how awful I was and how straight helped their lives. I know my parents were brainwashed like I was, but I no longer tolerate the awful Dr. Newton and his bullshit.

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Offline devaprasthadas

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WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2001, 08:14:28 AM »
my mom has seen the light
    I was held in the atlanta straight for 8months more and i turned 18 they still would not let me out when i did my parents did not even talk to me so i started hitchhiking with the dead awhile now me and my mom will talk about it;She says she can't belive that she would go to collect money on the side roads.Now she tells me she is very sorry for the both of us and the hole that it put in our familyspending so much time in negative vibrations.One good thing came out of it we do our best not to get into very loud yelling.She feels now that in the long run the mental ruin we both went thru could never be returned.

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Offline Derek2002

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WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2001, 11:39:16 AM »
Re: Aftermath
 Not all of them where hunted down many where brought back to the usa and outher country's by are beloved cia most at a later  date where exposed the cia wanted them because they where experts in brainwashing and all kids of crap check out the noam chomsky archive on the net he has alot to say about the whole ordeal

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Offline Blopa

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WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2001, 07:56:13 PM »
Re: Struggling Teens made me sick to my stomach.
OK, suppose now that you have your own teens and they behave like my 17 years son does: smokes pot all the time every day, skips school, gets kicked out of schools, breaks curfew, screams insults at me, refuses to be drug tested, steals money from us, punches walls and windows, gets traffic tickets for doing 145 on a 65 mph hway, lies. What would you do? I honestly ask that question because I did place him in a 'facility' out of desperation. I can use your advice on how to help him get healthy and, ultimately, keep him alive and drug free (from cocaine, pot, alcohol, acid and ecstacy, all of which he did when he was out).

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Offline FaceKhan

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WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2001, 04:17:00 PM »
Everyone Changes
Well, I would be very concerned as to where you sent him. No one here is saying that all drug treatment and programs for teens are bad, we are just saying that many of them are and parents need to be aware. Many of the people who went through STRAIGHT, CEDU, TeenHelp, SAFE, KIDS and other abusive programs, did not have a substance abuse problem until they got out of the program and had to deal with the trauma and those who did have problems going in often had far worse ones after their stay at a  facility or program.


Have you ever considered that your son might work out his problems on his own, one of my best friends used to get into a lot of trouble, dropped out of school, ( most of it before I knew him) and did a list of drugs so long that it would probably make your son feel inadequate. Now he is 18 and he cut out most of the drugs, is considering college, and he works full time.  


Parents often don't take steps early to help their kids. They wait until they are desperate and then they go to an extreme often more to help themselves feel good than to help their kids.  Most drug use, family, and behavior problems are better treated in an outpatient setting or with a private therapist. Residential settings often destabilize people, and unfortunately that is used to the advantage of those people who operate abusive residential programs. I recomend you peruse this list of red-flagged programs, although this is just a partial list it can be useful. http://homestead.juno.com/ive_been_there/warnings.htm'>homestead.juno.com/ive_be...rnings.htm

and also there are twp checklists of common elements found in abusive and fraudulent programs
http://homestead.juno.com/ive_been_there/buyer_beware.html'>homestead.juno.com/ive_be...eware.html

and
http://nospank.org/beware.htm'>nospank.org/beware.htm


If you already knew he was doing drugs, why bother drug testing him? It would not alleviate your concerns if he came up negative because the tests are innaccurate and easy to beat. Generally the only drug that tests positive beyond a few days after use is Marijuana which shows up for about a month. Lets face it, pot is not exactly something for a parent to freak out about. I know people who smoke with their parents and I know kids whose parents put a lot more  stigma on alcohol, although they are Pakistani and Muslim so alcohol is a much bigger transgression than weed in their culture.


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Offline kaydeejaded

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WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2001, 08:14:09 AM »
Parents
My parents really think that they saved me through Straight. They think that the basic ideas were good and well intentioned but maybe the program got out of control. Yeah OK communism was a good idea and it got twisted and went out of control. Any argument in my opinion can be vindicated in that way. I am still so angry that is such a problem for my family and me. I know it is wrong but sometimes I throw it in their face how my life was ruined because of Straight. I read the posts here saying to stop whining ect.. but I'm still so angry. Nothing was the same after. Dumb sidebar:for a part time job application at Marshalls (a clothing store) there was an entire essay dedicated to writing about my ability to follow directions, obey authority, how reliable I was and all about my attitude. Also (of course) the have you done drugs would you lie for a co-worker if they were your friend and stole ect.. I know this is rambling off the subject but really what type of questions are these? Nazi sh*t? Is this what should be on an application to a f**king clothing store? Please if you think I am trippin please tell me ... translation just in case you need it trippin...buggin...crazy.. mistaken. Hey you know NY slang is different I am never sure what you guys say and don't. Really am I wrong or is this more of the same. The land of the Free (to do what let me know) and no I do not want to be in any other country but can we improve this one??? I do not have to sell my soul to Marshalls. In a fit anger I responded to their Nazi screening program test with total honesty.. sorry but I hate authority power=abuse of power. Hell no I would not rat my friend out to your company that's my friend who the f*ck are you? And oh I CAN be reliable and I'm very honest, follow directions that are important and Marshalls get me on a bad day and my attitude sucks. Is the PTSS (post traumatic STRAIGHT syndrome) or just me? Sorry to ramble.........Kady http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif' alt=':'>

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Offline ramprato

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WInston Churchill on "Sobriety"
« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2001, 12:04:19 PM »
 Parent the Parents
NO I don't think you're tripping or rambling. What you going through are the after effects of being in a mind rape mill. Face it, your world was turned completely upside down when you were put in Straight and after everything was said and done, it was left all up to you to pick up the pieces, or clean up THEIR mess. It takes a lot of guts to stand up to people like family members and supporters of mind rape mills, they really do believe what Straight did was a great thing.


I had to deal with my own family and no it wasn't fun, but I really was at the point where I didn't give a damn about life, maybe not to the point where I was considering suicide, but I know I was well on my way to a nervous breakdown. I mean there is nothing in the world like having some jack ass director of the Straight I was in read off all my private memoirs to the group and then hear from clueless people who were either parents or supporters of mind rape mills tell me it was for the good, I find that attitude to be just plain stupid.


"They think that the basic ideas were good and well intentioned but maybe the program got out of control. Yeah OK communism was a good idea and it got twisted and went out of control."


Couldn't agree more, Straight and it's spin-offs were/are using experimental and unproven (to this day) means of thought control, manipulating well to do families to believe that they could treat a young person regardless of their situation or troubles, but failed to mention "as long as there was money involved, and as you know, everybody got diagnosed as having a "drug problem".


Then you spent the next few years hearing from literally anybody who was ALLOWED to be in your life how f.u.c.k.e.d. up you were. What I am trying to say is that your feelings and emotions are soooooo valid, you have every right to be angry, absolutely. I am currently in therapy working through a lot of this because I don't want to go through the rest of my life angry, I wasn't to get better, I don't ever want to be in the point I was a few years ago, I came so f-in close to a nervous breakdown, I never want to be there again so I'm willing to work as hard as I can to prevent it. I command respect from my family now including some parents my family are friends with who recommended Straight to my parents, can you believe they are still brainwashed?


It's wonderful to tell people like that, that Straight was f.u.c.k.e.d. up and that it damaged me, and thanks a f.u.c.k.i.n.g. lot for your "help" that will be the last advice you ever send me in my lifetime. I just put it ALL right back on them where it belongs, it gets them thinking that maybe it wasn't all sunshine and sprinkles after.


As for your application, that seems to be the norm, I don't know why these companies even bother to make an attitude test an application requirement, most people know how to fill those out if you know what I mean. They Made me fill one of those out for a job and at one point they were focusing on getting along with others, well I got hired and like jobs I had before that didn't require an attitude test, there were still jerks working at the place that required one, imagine that.


I admit that also because I'm healing and standing up to those who once tried to "help" me, it has strained relationships with them, but I would never trade the person within me I'm getting to know now for anything. I will work to be closer to those in my family but that doesn't mean I'm ever going to put up with their bulls.h.i.t. again. Actually my mother and I are starting to get a more adult relationship now and I'm more comfortable with that, it's much better than it was, I can keep my sanity better >http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/smile.gif' alt=':)'>

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