On 2005-07-10 18:33:00, Antigen wrote:
"And thank you, Anon, for so adeptly demonstrating the fucked up mentality of Program supporters.
Huh? Are you retarded too?
If you insist on putting me on the other side of the fence Ill take the liberty of identifying my stance, since you adamantly refuse to recognize the far more reasonable approach I take, than simply trying to close all the TCs of the world.
I'm all for regulations, setting standards and forced guidelines for theraputic communities.
First, I obviously have to force feed you the concept that PARENTS CANT CONTROL THIER KIDS. Why do you refuse to accept this, and the vital need for an atmosphere which does?
Unless you have a fucking collar on your kid, you cant tell me you have any firm control of thier behavior. What about the parents who dont give a shit where thier kid is or what they are doing?
You also refuse to acknowledge that a double standard is taking place here. I cannot confine my child to a padded room if they are a physical threat to themselves or the rest of my family, but an institution can. I would end up in jail. Your claim is that TCs or any facility should also face criminal prosecution.
Parents have lost all rights to discepline above and beyond verbal confrontations. Could you at least acknowledge that parents either will not, or CONNOT control an out of control kid?
What planet are you from. Here on earth, kids use drugs, commit crimes ranging from victimless to barbaric. They do what they want when they want, and as tough as it is for you to accept, theres not a fucking thing any parent can do about it, even if they want to. Take that pill and swallow it Ginger. Its the cold hard truth.
So, now that you know this, and asumably wont counter with some far-fetched idealistic approach to how the impossible can be accomplished...what is your solution?
I DO support therapuetic communities and institutions of behavior modification. Why? read above.
I however clearly indicated that the current state of these institutions needs help.
These places need regulations, guidelines, and they need thier conduct closely monitored, period.
Your simple-minded approach to close them all down is just so laughable and such an idealistic and unrealistic vision that I cant help but ask with a smirk how things are going in your "save the children" campaign? Close any TCs lately?
Fuck!
In case you hadn't noticed, very few splits and pull offs spend much time in these forums. Mostly only long term Program vets, graduates and former staff. These ARE the Elan success stories, you moron!
Could you please provide some sort of backup or statistics for this claim? Put me on the "non-grad" list as you comprise it. Please provide some sort of information as to how you develop statistics of status among anon posters who have nothing more to say than "Marty fucks buffalos"
If you want to abuse and cow your child, be a fucking man about it. Get out that leather belt and force the kid to stare at a corner yourself. Don't wimp out by hiring someone to do it for you and them whine about our comparing notes on the issue.
I admire your ability to incorporate an ALLEDGED "issue" and present it as fact.
I do whine about you fucks comparing notes, but none of my whining has anything to do with the fairy tale that kids are getting whipped with leather belts at a TC. Low and behold though, my suggestions and efforts to monitor the discepline at a TC would insure that no kids ARE.
Your plight to close them all has no direct effect on what goes on in them while they are still open.
What is so hard to admit about the idea that we both ultimately have to same goal to stop abusive treatment of children who will not respond to any form of discepline in the home up to and INCLUDING the belt therefore being sent to a facility that confronts and modifies the behavior that might have gotten them whipped at home. or killed, or thrown in jail, or confined to an instution that uses drugs to control behavior.
Youll never admit that changing the TC is a far more valid and productive effort than closing them all down. You will never spell it out for the former residents of elan and other TCs that you are USING them either will you?
Every one here, no matter if they are a so-called "success" in whatever terms Ginger choses to identify you as one, or a split or sign-out have one thing in common, NONE have really considered thier role in Fornits. Ginger is using you all as examples of how "good kids" are abused and brian-fucked by TCs and become the troubled adults you are. You are her ammo, the poster kids for a righteous cause with little possitive results.
I see how Ken, and any other person who says "move on" are your nemisis.
As for Elan successes, they are not here Ginger!, The silence is deafening isnt it? Do you realize how many people are out there living normal productive happy lives after Elan?
I am one of them. If I were to be asked if I would recommend elan for a severely out of control kid, knowing what I know about Elan today, I would say "send him"!
As much as I didnt like being forced to be accountable for my behavior in Elan back in the early 80s, If any kid was as out of control as I was, Elan was an answer when considering the options. No, parental control was NOT an option! Get that through your fucking thick head!
The troubled parent industry is only a few decades old. It's essentially just another subset of the newage utopian cults. Odds are, it won't last any longer than Chautauqua.
Fucking hilarious!
Troubled parents are held far more accountable for thier acts on children than ever before. Parents are undoubtedly a direct effect on the bahvior of thier children.
So many of the kids today with behavior problems are the result of abusive neglectfull parents.
Children were forced to continue staying in these environments at home thus compounding thier hostility, and thier outrageous behavior. Along comes the righteous group that says we cant slap or spank our kids anymore. We cant confine them to thier rooms if they act out, we cant physically force them to stay in the house rather than go to the meth party down the street. So who's gonna do it?
Tell me Ginger...who the fuck is going to force these kids to behave, and take accountabilty for thier actions? My brother has only seen his 16 year old kid 3 times in the last year. In A juvenile detention center. He has spent upwards of $100k not only trying to find the kid, but mopping up the fucking messes this little fuck has left behind. The 16 year old kid raped his 8 year old sister. The 16 year old kid stole cash, and jewelry, and credit cards and a $40k SUV from his own family. He stole two pistols and they have not been seen since. This kid had everything, nice home, loving parents, a reasonably structured environment. What the hell do YOU do for a kid and many others like this? Close a TC that may save his life?
Who gives a fuck if the kid has to do dishes for 24 hours? Who really fucking cares if this kid that nobody knows, and would run away from if they did shovels snow with a fucking spoon for 2 days? WHO FUCKING GIVES A SHIT? If this "kid" was an adult, we would all be there to testify against him in a court of law that would put him in a prison where its OK to be confined in a cell for years on end, where its ok to restrain and sedate them if they are a physical threat to others or themselves. Where there are no treatment options for addictions and mental illnesses to people who NEED them.
Whats your answer Ginger? What is your fucking solution. Should we all send our fucked up kids to YOUR house?
Ill bet my left eye if you had the money you would be the first to open a TC for kids thinking you would protect them from other TC and then painfully discover you cannot do a thing for them either without incorporating forcable control!
