Many Many Programs Abuse Kids

[RobertBruce]

Whooter Wrote:

But we can disband the thought that these places interrupt communication between parent and child.

WRONG


Take a look at this Whooter, it's from Ridge Creeks FAQ section on their website.

For the first three weeks of the program, students will be allowed to call you once a week for a conference call. A member of the RCS staff will set a convenient time for this call during the first phone call after admission. These calls will last 15 minutes and will be supervised by one of the student's counselors to ensure the student is respectful and appropriate. After your child has been at RCS for three weeks, has written you two letters, and has received one back from you, they are eligible for regular calls.

Gosh, that description sure does look familar. Almost like the exact same scenario I already described at HLA from more than 10 years ago. More proof that not only do these places restrict and censor communication, but that nothing has changed.

[Whooter]

For the first three weeks of the program, students will be allowed to call you once a week for a conference call. A member of the RCS staff will set a convenient time for this call during the first phone call after admission. These calls will last 15 minutes and will be supervised by one of the student's counselors to ensure the student is respectful and appropriate. After your child has been at RCS for three weeks, has written you two letters, and has received one back from you, they are eligible for regular calls.

Thanks for clearing that up Bruce.  So just like I stated previously the kids can write letters during their first weeks there.  In fact they indicate the child will write 2 letters during their first weeks and they will receive one back.  A decade or so ago the programs use to restrict communication for the first several weeks but we can see this has changed.

This agrees with what I had stated earlier from ThomasC who had written a letter home in  his first few days and it went out unread by the staff.

I has always been widely believed here on fornits that these places block communication with family but this shows that they encourage it and actually write it into their procedures to insure that the families keep in touch.



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[RobertBruce]

Attempting to spin again John? You feign ignorance on a topic you know all too well. You help these programs develop their abusive tactics.

No one at any point claimed we weren't allowed to write letters home, you're just attempting to lie about comments made by others because you know you've been proven wrong yet again. The fact is you are actually made to write letters home. The issue being that those letters are screened first. Anything in the letter that is viewed as going against program speak and the letter gets trashed.

Here you have another poster, from a different program, from a different time period telling the exact same story I am. You can bury your head in the sand all you want John, parents aren't, and that's why your beloved abusive industry is dying.

[RobertBruce]

For the first three weeks of the program, students will be allowed to call you once a week for a conference call. A member of the RCS staff will set a convenient time for this call during the first phone call after admission. These calls will last 15 minutes and will be supervised by one of the student's counselors to ensure the student is respectful and appropriate. After your child has been at RCS for three weeks, has written you two letters, and has received one back from you, they are eligible for regular calls.

So with this admission from Ridge Creek we now all agree on the fact that programs do still restrict and censor communications between parent and child, and that this practice is abusive. I'm glad we've settled yet another reason why these programs are unsafe.

[Whooter]

For the first three weeks of the program, students will be allowed to call you once a week for a conference call. A member of the RCS staff will set a convenient time for this call during the first phone call after admission. These calls will last 15 minutes and will be supervised by one of the student's counselors to ensure the student is respectful and appropriate. After your child has been at RCS for three weeks, has written you two letters, and has received one back from you, they are eligible for regular calls.

When my daughter attended ASR initially we didnt have communication for several weeks and did not have our initial phone call for over a month, due to her time in the wilderness portion.  As parents we indicated to the school that we thought more communication would be an improvement.  It is good to see that many of these programs are starting to allow communication with family at the onset.
ThomasC confirmed, in another thread, that his program also allows letters the first few days after being placed.



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[RobertBruce]

A. You didn't have a daughter, you've been caught. Stop lying.  There's really no need to pretend things any further.

B. If you bothered to actually read Thomas' post rather than attempting to spin as part of your pro child abuse PR campaign you'd see that he acknowledges that communication was restricted and controlled. I'd be happy to show the post if you're too obtuse to acknowledge it.

C. Thomas acknowledged that due to the laziness and ineptitude of the abusive staff you so readily support letters could be snuck out. I myself snuck several letters out because of the stupidity of the staff.

D. The posting from RC proves that not only do they cut off all phone calls until certain conditions are met, but that even after that point communications are still controlled.

None of your usual lies will disuade anyone from the truth. These programs have and continue to monitor control and censor communication between parents and children. This is an abusive practice that is only ever done to keep parents in the dark regarding the truth about these places.

[Whooter]

A. You didn't have a daughter, you've been caught. Stop lying.  There's really no need to pretend things any further.

B. If you bothered to actually read Thomas' post rather than attempting to spin as part of your pro child abuse PR campaign you'd see that he acknowledges that communication was restricted and controlled. I'd be happy to show the post if you're too obtuse to acknowledge it.

C. Thomas acknowledged that due to the laziness and ineptitude of the abusive staff you so readily support letters could be snuck out. I myself snuck several letters out because of the stupidity of the staff.

D. The posting from RC proves that not only do they cut off all phone calls until certain conditions are met, but that even after that point communications are still controlled.

None of your usual lies will disuade anyone from the truth. These programs have and continue to monitor control and censor communication between parents and children. This is an abusive practice that is only ever done to keep parents in the dark regarding the truth about these places.

Look, Bruce, I am not going to argue with you about my family members.  No one knows on this forum except myself.  Sometimes when opinions are flying it is good to go back to the original post:

Ridge Creek procedure:
For the first three weeks of the program, students will be allowed to call you once a week for a conference call. A member of the RCS staff will set a convenient time for this call during the first phone call after admission. These calls will last 15 minutes and will be supervised by one of the student's counselors to ensure the student is respectful and appropriate. After your child has been at RCS for three weeks, has written you two letters, and has received one back from you, they are eligible for regular calls.

So we can clearly see that communication is not Restricted at Ridge Creek.  The kids get to sent letters home pretty much right away and the parents write back to them.  When my daughter attended ASR I had to wait a lot longer than that and it wasnt considered to be abusive.  Many of the parents indicated that they would like to see communication opened up a bet so they didnt have to wait so long.  From you post it seems the industry is starting to loosen up the rules and procedures a little.



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[DannyB II]

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[thomasC]

COMMUNICATION WITH STUDENTS

Sponsors understand that there is no telephone contact with the student until the student has obtained Advanced Status which normally takes 60 to 120 days or longer.  It is very important that the Student earn this privilege.  During the first 60 to 120 plus days both the Sponsor and the Student may write as often as they choose but telephone calls are not allowed as they are disruptive to the students' progress and it distracts their focus in the School.  Once the students have demonstrated their progress in the School by obtaining Advanced Status, monthly telephone calls with the Sponsors become an important part of the School.  We recommend your first visit is the Parent Child I (PCI) workshop held at the School.  You will be scheduled for a PC I workshop shortly after your child has been in the school 7 months.  Other criteria is the student must complete Focus and the Parent must complete Discovery.  Upon review and approval of the School, a PCI can be scheduled earlier if both the parent and child have completed Focus.  It is also important that we set an example by adhering to the School rules ourselves.  For this reason, we ask that you REFRAIN FROM REQUESTING ANY EXCEPTIONS, as it negatively affects not only your child's progress, but the other students in the School.  This was agreed to as part of our accepting the student into the School.  Sponsors understand and agree to follow the School's visit and communication policies.  Sponsors further agree that if they violate the School's communication and visit policies the School may at their option discharge the student, and yet still hold Sponsors financially accountable and responsible for the tuition on the remainder of the contract period and/or the time that would equal proper written notice [90 days].

Emphasis in original.  Document is dated 11/3/06 and lists Help My Teen's phone number at the bottom.

[RobertBruce]

Look, Bruce, I am not going to argue with you about my family members. No one knows on this forum except myself.

And all the people you told about your son. You can argue this point all day if you want to Johnny, but the cat is out of the bag. You've been exposed, and trying to cover it up now only makes you look even more foolish. You lied, plain and simple, and you got caught got. Accept it.

Sometimes when opinions are flying it is good to go back to the original post:

Ridge Creek procedure:
For the first three weeks of the program, students will be allowed to call you once a week for a conference call. A member of the RCS staff will set a convenient time for this call during the first phone call after admission. These calls will last 15 minutes and will be supervised by one of the student's counselors to ensure the student is respectful and appropriate. After your child has been at RCS for three weeks, has written you two letters, and has received one back from you, they are eligible for regular calls

So we can clearly see that communication is not Restricted at Ridge Creek.

We? There is no we John, there is you. What 'we' are seeing is a program that openly acknowledges that for the first three weeks your child is incarcerated all phone calls will last only 15 minutes, and that a "counselor" will be included in all calls between you and your child. Should your child say anything the "counsleor" doesn't feel should be said, the call will be terminated. After that three week period, should you and your child meet certain conditions, your child will still only be allowed to call you once a week and still only for 15 minuets, however the counselor will merely sit in the room, and not listen in on your end of the call.



This program displays such arrogance as to actually pretend communication between parent and child is a privlidge, and not a right.

The kids get to sent letters home pretty much right away and the parents write back to them.

Make no mistake John, the kids are forced to write preapproved letters home. No letters considered to be lying, maniipulative, or abusive are approved.

When my daughter attended ASR I had to wait a lot longer than that and it wasnt considered to be abusive

Again, no need to lie about your make believe daughter. Don't mention her again, she never existed. That aside, of course it wasn't abusive for you. You hate your kids, hence why you sent them away. It is however bad for the kid who is being abused in a program. How is he supposed to tell his parents (provided his parent isnt a bad one like you) if all communication is monitored and controlled?

Answer that for me if you can John.

Many of the parents indicated that they would like to see communication opened up a bet so they didnt have to wait so long. From you post it seems the industry is starting to loosen up the rules and procedures a little.

Not at all. Read my earlier post John, I detailed was communication was like more than 10 years ago at HLA. Somehow magically the same procedures are in place. Proof postive these places never change anything but their names.

[RobertBruce]

Robert, Thomas is not a very credible poster in my opinion so please stop referring to him. Your disingenuous admiration of Thomas is sickening, anything to promote your cause, Robert.
Letters go in and out of RCS is just fine.

Really? I'm still waiting to hear how long you worked at HLA Danny? Also do you have any basis to claim Thomas isn't credible? I mean, it's not like he lied about his family members like your man crush Whooter John did. Let me know son.

[thomasC]

Let me know son.

Not to further stray off topic, but let's please continue to address Danny in this manner.

[Whooter]

Neither one of us has attended Ridge Creek, Bruce, we need to go by what they state as their procedures.

The procedures indicate that the child and parent communicate with each other fairly quickly, i.e. a couple of letters within the first 3 weeks and then the child and parents communicate by mail and phone.  This written document is encouraging.  Based on this information I dont see this as being abusive.  There may be other aspects of the program which is abusive but this doesn't seem to be one of them in my opinion.  I understand that you are trying to bring in your experience from HLA, but at this point in time we really dont know if RC is applying the same procedures in the same way.  We need to rely on the procedures as they are written.

I think we can conclude that at Ridge Creek the staff works to bridge the gap of communication quite well right from the onset.  I can not speak for HLA or other programs but this is a big improvement from early 2000 when ASR didnt allow communication for up to the first few months depending on when the child moved into the main campus from wilderness.  I think now that ASR has disbanded its wilderness program the children are able to communicate fairly quickly like the kids at Ridge Creek do.

On a side note it doesnt matter if you believe that I have sons or daughters, but for the sake of keeping this thread from being derailed lets keep the attacks over in the "offa" thread.



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[Whooter]

COMMUNICATION WITH STUDENTS

Sponsors understand that there is no telephone contact with the student until the student has obtained Advanced Status which normally takes 60 to 120 days or longer.  It is very important that the Student earn this privilege.  During the first 60 to 120 plus days both the Sponsor and the Student may write as often as they choose but telephone calls are not allowed as they are disruptive to the students' progress and it distracts their focus in the School.  Once the students have demonstrated their progress in the School by obtaining Advanced Status, monthly telephone calls with the Sponsors become an important part of the School.  We recommend your first visit is the Parent Child I (PCI) workshop held at the School.  You will be scheduled for a PC I workshop shortly after your child has been in the school 7 months.  Other criteria is the student must complete Focus and the Parent must complete Discovery.  Upon review and approval of the School, a PCI can be scheduled earlier if both the parent and child have completed Focus.  It is also important that we set an example by adhering to the School rules ourselves.  For this reason, we ask that you REFRAIN FROM REQUESTING ANY EXCEPTIONS, as it negatively affects not only your child's progress, but the other students in the School.  This was agreed to as part of our accepting the student into the School.  Sponsors understand and agree to follow the School's visit and communication policies.  Sponsors further agree that if they violate the School's communication and visit policies the School may at their option discharge the student, and yet still hold Sponsors financially accountable and responsible for the tuition on the remainder of the contract period and/or the time that would equal proper written notice [90 days].

Emphasis in original.  Document is dated 11/3/06 and lists Help My Teen's phone number at the bottom.

Thomasc do you have a link to this?  3 to 6 months is a long time not to speak on the phone. Is this still the current practice?  It is good to hear that they allow mail at the onset but I am sure the parents have spoken up about the length of time they need to wait to speak with their child.  I am curious to see if they have improved this at all since then.  I know at ASR the parents spoke out about this issue and the school changed their procedures for future peer groups.



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[RobertBruce]

Neither one of us has attended Ridge Creek, Bruce, we need to go by what they state as their procedures.

The procedures indicate that the child and parent communicate with each other fairly quickly, i.e. a couple of letters within the first 3 weeks and then the child and parents communicate by mail and phone.  This written document is encouraging.  Based on this information I dont see this as being abusive.  There may be other aspects of the program which is abusive but this doesn't seem to be one of them in my opinion.  I understand that you are trying to bring in your experience from HLA, but at this point in time we really dont know if RC is applying the same procedures in the same way.  We need to rely on the procedures as they are written.

I think we can conclude that at Ridge Creek the staff works to bridge the gap of communication quite well right from the onset.  I can not speak for HLA or other programs but this is a big improvement from early 2000 when ASR didnt allow communication for up to the first few months depending on when the child moved into the main campus from wilderness.  I think now that ASR has disbanded its wilderness program the children are able to communicate fairly quickly like the kids at Ridge Creek do.

On a side note it doesnt matter if you believe that I have sons or daughters, but for the sake of keeping this thread from being derailed lets keep the attacks over in the "offa" thread.



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My comments about you lying about ever having a daughter are not an attack. They are simply facts. You need to accept the consequences for your actions John. Stings doesn't it? You can wiggle wiggle but you can't break free. It's for your own good Johnny.

Again John, I challenge you to read my earlier post. Explain to me the differences between the scenario that I described from more than a decade ago, and the current RC policies. Also I'm still waiting on you to explain how a child s supposed to report abuse when communications are restricted?