Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > The Troubled Teen Industry
Blame Game
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2003-10-08 16:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hey above Anon, you are spoken like a true FOLLOWER. We will pray for your children. Someday when you wake up from the kool-aid you are drinking, if you are brave enough, you will be apologizing to your child. Watch for the lawsuit, factual sad details to be announced."
--- End quote ---
WWASPS doesn't grow followers, they grow leaders. I just apologized to my son. I apologized for giving him a better way to live his young life - without anger, drugs, dropping out of school and self-destruction. :razz:
Anonymous:
--- Quote ---On 2003-10-08 16:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
--- Quote ---
On 2003-10-07 19:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Wait a second here. Doesn't WWASP teach that everything is what you make it, if you have a problem it's your problem, if bad things happen to you it's your fault?
So then... with all these bad things happening to WWASP, programs closing, criminal investigations, lawsuites, bad press and all, how come they don't practice what they preach?
"
--- End quote ---
Yes, everything happens for a reason. There is no "fault" - that's the blame game. WWASPS teaches that you have a choice. It doesn't teach that it is "your" choice to be raped or murdered. that is the choice of the rapist or murderer. WWASPS made a choice to help families with what they offer and it's a choice to take the heat from those that don't agree with rules and isolation when needed, or parents that still have a need to control even when their child is away getting the help they need. That's called working your child's program and the results would be for you, not for your child. "
--- End quote ---
You know what? I don't give a crap whether *you* are "satisfied" with the "program" or not.
What I care about is whether the child you contributed half of the genes for is being abused or neglected.
A lot of abusive parents *like* the results of what they're doing and are very satisfied doing it. The mom that got caught on video in a parking lot punching the little girl out was happy with her own parenting and her results. The parents in the Atlanta House of Prayer were happy and satisfied with their results.
The thing is, kids aren't property. The rest of society gets a say in how you treat your kid and how the "programs" you send your kid to treat your kid.
And we're going to get the laws changed. We're going to get the escort agencies outlawed. We're going to change the laws so it requires an order of commitment from a court in the child's home state to place a child in a restrictive boarding school--in any state or to send the child out of the country. We're going to change the laws so that every blasted one of the RBS's will be vigilantly overseen by each state's child protection agency.
The changes will come.
Not too long ago, historically speaking, it was legal for parents to beat, starve, or even kill their disobedient children. Well, legal for men. Who could also get away with doing most of the same to their wives.
The world turns and times change. The way the programs treat these kids is way outside the norms of a large majority of voters in this society. The only reason you program parents have gotten away with this for so long is that you've managed to keep the average voter from knowing what was going on at these places. That's changing.
You can expect that the laws will change, as well.
I'm an experienced activist, and I've been involved in successfully getting laws changed before. Not in this area, but then I've just recently become aware of the problem. As have a lot of other people in my social circle. And developing awareness in the voting public and the legislators is the first step to political change.
So I don't care if you're happy about how you're treating your kid. Kids are coming out of these places with stories of abuse that are in various cases being substantiated with other corroborating evidence.
These places need more government oversight. And, once the word gets out, I have faith in the rest of the voting public to see that they get it.
Anonymous:
Karen - he's been home for a long time, and I asked him while he was there, I asked him when he got home because someone had asked me. He not only said NO, but he said that with the way some of the guys where, he was surprised they didn't get hurt. we know that the staff are trained in restraint if it's needed.
I have no experience of Dundee ranch, however i know a boy that was there when all the chaos happened and he said that he was sorry that happened and wanted to go back when and if it reopens. Why would he say that if he was being abused there? From what I've read from you, I don't doubt that you believe they (the staff) were abusing kids. I personally don't know, I wasn't there.
Carey:
--- Quote ---IF I believed what was being posted here, I would run as fast as I could and bring my son home
--- End quote ---
Thanks for replying to my question. I was hoping that would be your answer. I understand your need for proof as to the allegations being made on this site. I don't believe them all myself. However, for me, because of the secrecy and the unwillingness to disclose information that I personally was requesting about the program my boys were in, I found it was and still is enough for me to have doubts about how the teens who were there were really being treated vs. how Dundee would like for me to have believed they were being treated. I just did not and still do not feel that the risk was worth the taking. You see everything that I thought was wrong about Dundee is what has closed them down. They have not been shut down because they were beating kids. They were shut down for various other reasons, such as:
Overcrowding
Hygiene associated with the facility
Levels of nutrition
Lack of attention with regard to health matters
Limiting outside contact / isolation
The staff did not have a clear understanding of the English language
Lack of professional staff
Inappropritate punishment
NO PERMITS , Health, Eduacation
The money invested was not spent to help the children
No clear curriculum
Constructing the "High Impact" facility
This is why I had and still have a problem with Dundee. I also have a problem with them because they accepted my children denying me of my rights as a parent without my consent. They were practicing their methods and beliefs on my children without my ok.
My boys have had contact with one of the very few boys to have gradutated from Dundee. He says he has no hard feelings towards Dundee. He also says he has no good feelings. He says he has just chosen to move on with his life. He seems to be doing ok. I am happy for him. He may just be one of the lucky ones. But, I am sure there are some who have been damaged by such a drastic form of "rehabilitation" if that is what you want to call it. I don't, as I have already stated, agree with what was going on at Dundee.
I am glad things turned out good for your son. I only want for all kids to be so lucky. I am just afraid that without any kind of outside monitoring from professionals the situation is far to risky. When I say outside monitoring, I mean outside monitoring from professionals. It can't be parents of the teens who are there. It must be professionals whose job is to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the children who are being detained in these programs. These professionals have to be independent of the programs themselves. They can not be hired or employed in anyway by the programs. They need to be a third party child advocate whos job is to ensure the saftety and wellbeing of the teen. You understand what I am saying.
Let me say one more thing about there being a third party child advocate looking in on these programs. It would also save these programs from a lot of false alligations of abuse. You see I think a third party child advocate monitoring these programs is a win win situation for the teens who are there as well as for the programs themselves.
--- Quote ---Why would he say that if he was being abused there?
--- End quote ---
Maybe a child would say that because they simply want to please their parents. Maybe they would say that because they are convinced they can't make it on the outside. Who knows, but I am sure it is possible that the child you are speaking of just might not mean what he is saying. Why somtimes does an abused wife choose to stay with their abuser? Because she may think she deserves the abuse. It is all a part of having been a part of dysfunctional and abusive relationships.
anon:
Anon responded:
however i know a boy that was there when all the chaos happened and he said that he was sorry that happened and wanted to go back when and if it reopens. Why would he say that if he was being abused there?
I too, have spoken with kids who were there when Dundee fell; several in fact. Not all feel they were abused; tho some were, and some were/are witnesses. All speak of various other areas of concern; Diet, Hygiene, Morphine - little things like that. Not every kid has had the same experience; but when you talk to enough of them, a pretty clear picture emerges; and its not pretty.
The accounts given by wwasp students across the wwasp web are all very similar. Not all were abused - but some were, and some just witnessed abuse. Some are no longer able to recognize abuse when they see it. I wonder if this isn't often the case?
As for wanting to return - that I don't believe - unless the kid is sitting in TB. I will say, its not unusual for the students to feel some regret at leaving. The reason's for this are complicated but I think the basic and easiest to explain is they are worried about their friends; and they feel a need to be with others who can relate to what they've been threw. Even so, I haven't spoken with or written a post wwasp student who wanted to go back, even tho some do have things they miss about it.
When I said Ask, I mean very specific questions. The generic question: Were you abused? will often get a negative response, even when they experienced things that are clearly abusive. As mentioned, I believe this is b/c they cease to recognize abuse.
I'm not trying to say your kid was without a doubt beat up - but if they spent a day in OP they experienced abuse. If they were restrained in the typical wwasp fashion, that was abuse.
If they were kept hungry and tired and scared and stressed in the first 3 levels - that was abuse.
And, it is possible they were beat up, or a witness to beating, and that is also abuse.
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