Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Aspen Education Group
DHS, Mount Bachelor Academy Settle Case
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "heretik" ---So Whooter lets say your right here, congratulations. I can just see you now genuflecting in front of your computer to your almighty Aspen, saying "I got them this time, look at me I'm worthy" as Phil Herschman, President of Aspen Education Group throws you your 30 bits to symbolize your significance.
Whooter once again we have to revert back back to your inability to recognize that children are being hurt here, MBA actually hurt children. They did not see fit to keep our children out of harms way. You know for a fact that "Lifesteps" being facilitated by inexperienced personal can only lead to complications which can have devastating psychological effects. You know this, we can all agree on this.
I am going to be a bit unprofessional here and go out on a line and say I bet there were some mothers and fathers on the investiagtion team from (DHS), we know there were. I'm sure some of their maternalistic/paternalistic emotions were involved. As a rational mother or father (while working for DHS) investigating apparent abuses of such outlandish behavior conducted because you are forced through peer pressure and with threats of retaliation by staff, you would be mortified. So thank god the initial reaction to suspend operations happened and the subsequent closure. Now we can all agree on this, right. DHS on a daily bases deals with abuses perpetrated on children, I think we all can agree they know how to do their job.
Now once the case gets handed over to the lawyers and they start to perform their ritual of two stepping, well all the smoke generated by this friction should not blind us to the reasons they were dancing in the first place. Children were abused, Whooter we can all agree on this.
As you say all the time to Anne and Ursus their are many programs out there they can not be all bad, well you may be right. This one (MBA) was. MBA wasn't selected out of a pool to be persecuted, they brought a investigation upon themselves. Professionals were sent out to perform their jobs, they did over a period of time and they put forth their results. What difference does it make what the lawyers worked out in a settlement. We all know that pales in comparison to the abuse kids are going through. Whooter you would really get this, if you gave a shit.
Samara, Anne, Ursus, DJ and others understand you more then you understand yourself. I don't believe in all good consciousness you are aware of the depth of pain children have endured while in these programs nor do I believe you want to. Picture this, our daughters at 14 being dressed up as whores made to sit on someones lap and gyrate all the while saying she is a no good slut. Have you got that pic in your head, I fucking almost break down every time I picture it or read it. Who the fuck do they think they are.
I told you before your sins you are committing here, you will have to answer for them at some point. Hopefully your God will show mercy.
You are not a person I could ever like, you do not make that possible.
--- End quote ---
I have never personally been hurt or helped by a program so I hold a more unbiased and neutral point of view. I am not very likely to walk into an abortion clinic and put a hole in the doctors head for murder. I can see both sides of the abortion issues as well as the TTI issue. I understand the fringe groups passion but I also see how closed mined they are. Your thinking is clouded and I dont hold any animosity towards you for your attacks. People like yourself and Anne etal can only see one point of view.. "all programs abuse all the kids in them".
You never mentioned in your post that DHS made a mistake. You never mentioned the Journalist and other parents who were happy that the charges against MBA were dropped. You think that all these kids are abused when they are not. You never mentioned that the DHS is in damage control mode when they made that statement and isnt going to admit to anything unless they have to. She wants to keep her job and protect the reputation of herself and the people under her, we all know that but I am the only one to put it in writing here.
Do a search for MBA, no one is disputing DHSs's statement or Aspens statement. They are both accurate and complement each other. To try to disregard DHS's statement or Aspens statement is reckless in my opinion.
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Ursus:
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---Yes you do. You know full well what you're doing. You just won't ever admit to it.
Trying to pass off a press release by Aspen's CEO as being written by either the author of the article or DHS is intentionally misleading and intellectually dishonest.
--- End quote ---
lol, The article was about MBA and DHS and Aspen and the families it affected. They were all part of the article. The DHS had a press release and so did Aspen. The Journalist had her say as did some of the parents. The author pulled it all together.
--- End quote ---
They are all part of the article package, as it was published on that particular occasion, and by KTVZ.com. Portions of that package, save the core article by Barney Lerten, may also be officially published elsewhere.
The statement by Phil Herschman, President of Aspen Education Group, on behalf of Mount Bachelor Academy, and published as part of that package, represents certain vested interests and a particular POV, which no one (save you, perhaps) would ever possibly attempt to pass off as an objective one.
Similar can be said for the statement by Erinn Kelley-Siel, Director of Children, Adults and Families at Oregon Department of Human Services (DHS), also published as part of that package, although in this case the vested interests lie not with the continued existence of Mount Bachelor Academy or its demise, but with the safety and welfare of its students which, by law and by the very type of governmental organization it is, DHS is beholden to prioritize.
And finally, yes, reporter Barney Lerten tries to pull it all together in the core article, presumably as objectively as possible, as that is part of what one does or is expected to do as a reporter.
These three parts, while all part of the same article package, are authored by three very different individuals or organizations with very different aims, vested interests and standards of objectivity. To try to pass any of these sections off as having been authored by another IS misrepresentation and fraudulent attribution.
Tell me, Whooter, when you see that Aspen press release on other websites, does it carry the byline of Barney Lerten? :D
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---Any part of the article can be quoted and used as reference, plus I provided a link so there was no attempt to be misleading.
--- End quote ---
Yes, of course any part of the article can be quoted and used as reference, but your deceptive means of quoting and presenting what you quoted WERE not only misleading but flat out dishonest. Your refusal to even acknowledge this, after several pages of this conversation, indicates to me that your deception may even have been deliberate.
--- End quote ---
Ursus you have had a problem with me posting in this thread from the beginning.
--- End quote ---
Nope. I was actually kinda grateful that you did. No one else had bitten into a discussion at that point.
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---You didnt like the comment by the Journalist which was in the body of the article and it gave you heart burn for some unknown reason.
--- End quote ---
Nope. I had a problem with you chopping it up, quoting it out of context by leaving out the rest of his sentence, and by your trying to pass it off as being what you had quoted earlier.
What you had quoted earlier actually came from Aspen Ed's statement.
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---Now you are trying to imply that I was quoting Barney Lerten as saying what Aspens statement was. I did no such thing.
--- End quote ---
That's right you did not. Nor did I ever imply that. Which hat did that rabbit come from?
--- Quote from: "Whooter" ---When you stated:
--- Quote ---Similar can be said for the statement by Erinn Kelley-Siel, Director of Children, Adults and Families at Oregon Department of Human Services (DHS), also published as part of that package, although in this case the vested interests lie not with the continued existence of Mount Bachelor Academy or its demise, but with the safety and welfare of its students which, by law and by the very type of governmental organization it is, DHS is beholden to prioritize.
--- End quote ---
You need to also consider that Erinn Kelley-Siel is trying to save her own job and her statement is damage control for jumping the gun and shutting down MBA. She has an agenda which is stronger than Aspens. She choose her words carefully to make it seem like she didnt screw up. She never said her shutting down of MBA was justified, only that the investigation was and Aspen agrees with her on this point.
--- End quote ---
Maybe true, maybe not. Personally, I think all parties called it a draw behind the scenes in order to avoid further hassle and litigation. But then, this was not exactly a point of contention, now was it? We weren't even discussing this yet, were we now?
We were discussing your attempt to pass off material from Aspen Ed's statement, on behalf of MBA, as being material from Barney Lerten's article. That was really kinda sneaky and dishonest, if you ask me!
heretik:
This is not about you Whooter. Children!!!!!
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---
We were discussing your attempt to pass off material from Aspen Ed's statement, on behalf of MBA, as being material from Barney Lerten's article. That was really kinda sneaky and dishonest, if you ask me!
--- End quote ---
No I didnt, Ursus. I usually take quotes from an article and post them. ( I dont post the whole article sometimes if I dont need to). You had already posted the entire article so I carve out pieces that we can talk about. I have been doing this for years. You are the only one on fornits who spends days posting the entire comments section of an article.
What I do is take one or two comments, post them and speak to it.
I consider Barney Letens words, the journalists words, parents words, Aspens words and DHS words all part of the article. It would not be complete without them in there. I think this is where we disagree.
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Whooter:
--- Quote from: "heretik" ---This is not about you Whooter. Children!!!!!
--- End quote ---
I think if you could have the opportunity to meet with some of the kids who benefited from these programs you would not be so quick to harshly judge these places. I dont think you would feel the same way about shutting the programs down and denying these kids the help they desperately need and cannot get at home.
When MBA closed it caused many people to lose their jobs and children to be uprooted once again and replaced into another facility. Nothing was gained really it was all downside. I doubt that people have much respect for the DHS in Oregon at this point. These are compassionate people, I understand that. We also know that if they really believe that kids are being put in harms way they would have quit their jobs before coming out with a statement like that and letting it continue if they really felt abuse was occurring there. I would never want to be part of a place that abused children, I dont think anyone would. Especially if you made the decision to allow them to continue to abuse kids and open up a new program.
Once the DHS reviewed the evidence they realized they made a mistake. I think that is very obvious.
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