Addicts helping addicts

[SUCK IT]

I think AA is a good organization that has helped countless people. I think one of the main reasons why it works so well is the fact that addicts helping other addicts is an effective way of dealing with the problem. This is not to say traditional drug addiction treatment centers aren't good as well, I believe they are also effective. But most people cannot afford long term inpatient drug treatment unless you have good health insurance, and so that leaves a lot of people without that option. There are two different experiences in these two different environments however and the debate which one is more effective is an interesting discussion to have.

Professional treatment in drug rehab centers are educated and well qualified to take care of others. They have a good understanding of addiction and help people tremendously. My main issue with these type of facilities is that they can rely to heavily on medication and psychiatry to help people solve their problems, I think there are more effective ways of dealing with problems than covering it up with a medication. Or trading illegal drug addiction for a pharmaceutical prescribed drug addiction, I don't see the benefit in that. Ideally an addict will be able to live their life without any type of chemical dependency, legal or illegal.

Which brings me back to AA. I believe addicts helping other addicts is a very effective strategy, because they have gone through it before and have a good understanding. AA especially is useful because it is so widespread and access is easy. There are meetings going on all the time, and meetings are just the starting point. People almost always will approach you during your first meeting and offer to help. As much as some people on fornits hate AA, I don't see them offering the kind of help that many people in an AA meeting would. They want to genuinely help other people, because they know what it's like to be living in the world of addiction themselves. That is their only motivation, not money or fame, just to help others who have the same problem they have. I find that inspiring and one of my favorite aspects of AA/NA.

Too often on fornits I see people claiming AA is not necessary. If people are addicted to drugs, they should just stop, or so goes the "common sense" advice on fornits. Well unfortunately for many people it is not that easy. From an outside perspective, dealing with somebody with addiction issues can be frustrating because it doesn't make a lot of sense. If drugs and alcohol are destroying your life, then why don't you just stop? Some assume because they have the ability to stop cold turkey, that others should be able to as well. Those who seek help, are weak. This is a common perception of addiction and AA I find when reading this forum. Welcome to the early 20th century, before drug treatment or AA ever existed. I don't think ignorance is a good enough excuse to take the treatment industry back into the dark ages, where people were told to solve the problem themselves, and suffer in shameful silence.

Think about it for a second. If you couldn't make it through a single day without using drugs or alcohol, and couldn't find a way to stop and you finally acknowledge you really need some help to regain your life. Where would you rather come for advice and help. Would you rather come post on fornits and ask for help? Or would you go into an AA/NA meeting and ask for help? Lets be honest, in which situation are you more likely to receive real and effective help?

Fornits offers a lot of negative views, as in what not to do. But offers little alternatives on what you should do. I have yet to see anyone offer up an idea that can seriously replace the amount of work and help that AA/NA accomplish, around the world. Hating on an organization that is so successful and helped so many people is one thing, but offering no alternative just scares people away from AA based on mistruths and tells them deal with it on your own. Not only is this bad advice, but it is dangerous advice. The fact is some people do need help sometimes, and AA is one of the few organizations that offer it up without asking for anything in return. That is very rare in this world, and they should be applauded not condemned.

[Dr. Acula]

MARIJUANA IS NOT A DRUG YOU IDIOT! :suicide:

[Pile of Dead Kids]

Actually, Fornits has a very positive approach to marijuana treatment.

[DannyB II]

MARIJUANA IS NOT A DRUG YOU IDIOT! :suicide:

OK, "THC" is not a drug. HHHHHhhhmmm.......and your human?

Tetra-hydro-cannabinol; has a mild to moderate analgesic effect.
 
Please explain your definition of a drug.

Oh never mind, I don't want to wait for some ridiculous definition
such as; God made this not man. Drugs are manufactured by man.

[SUCK IT]

I wonder if someone on that "I Just" thread said, you know what I am addicted to drugs and want to quit. Anybody here willing to help me? What do you think the response would be. Probably something like "just quit, you weakling". Or "read this conspiracy website about AA, it will help you". Sorry but these don't offer anybody any help. It's great people can use substances responsibly, they aren't the people who get addicted to drugs or alcohol. It's a good thing to be one of these people, but if cursed with the disease of addiction, it doesn't really help much when these blessed people with responsible usage looking down on those who can't help themselves, and tell them, why can't you be more like me? It's like a person with eating issues asking for help from someone who never had weight problems, they'd probably say something like "why don't you just stop eating"? It's the same reaction to both situations, it doesn't help the person asking for help. That's why I believe, that addicts helping addicts, like AA/NA is a success because they know what you are going through. They know you aren't a responsible user of substances, and actually might need some help quitting, and they are happy to do so. I don't see why that is a bad thing, again, compare it to the response you'd get here. I choose them.

[Froderik]

Marijuana G E T S .  Y O U . H I G H . . .

I love that about it....whether it's a drug or not is a secondary issue..  :rasta:

[DannyB II]

Marijuana G E T S .  Y O U . H I G H . . .

I love that about it....whether it's a drug or not is a secondary issue..  :rasta:

Yo, Frodie get high, Dude. Then get high again, get your family high, your grandson get him high. Sit with your daughter when she tells you she is pregnant and hand her the, "fatty" and get her high. Go to work get your boss high, find the owner and get him high. Call your State Senator, get him high, call your congressmen and get him high.
Barak and Michelle ask them to get high, hand the "fatty" to his daughters and get them high.
Drive across town and get high, go to WalMart and get high. Ask your grandmother for money and get her high, then you get high.
Take your dog for a walk, no don't get him high but show him how, "you need to get high".

You are high, "Frodie", way "HIGH".

[Froderik]

Marijuana G E T S .  Y O U . H I G H . . .

I love that about it....whether it's a drug or not is a secondary issue..  :rasta:

Yo, Frodie get high, Dude. Then get high again, get your family high, your grandson get him high. Sit with your daughter when she tells you she is pregnant and hand her the, "fatty" and get her high. Go to work get your boss high, find the owner and get him high. Call your State Senator, get him high, call your congressmen and get him high.
Barak and Michelle ask them to get high, hand the "fatty" to his daughters and get them high.
Drive across town and get high, go to WalMart and get high. Ask your grandmother for money and get her high, then you get high.
Take your dog for a walk, no don't get him high but show him how, "you need to get high".

You are high, "Frodie", way "HIGH".

 :roflmao:

[Samara]

I've never had an addiction and don't smoke anything at all... but...  certain people come to mind that would benefit from a daily herbal elixir.  

One person's toke is another person's prozac.

[Oscar]

When you have an illness you get help from a professional - not by some former patient.

Would you limp to a man who had broken his leg if you broke yours?

Would you consult a cancer survivor how to have a tumor removed?

Of course not.

Both alcohol addiction and drug addiction are official recognized illnesses and there are professionals who is trained to treat them. Please remove the amateurs from this business. We are talking lives which can be saved.

[DannyB II]

When you have an illness you get help from a professional - not by some former patient.

Would you limp to a man who had broken his leg if you broke yours?

Would you consult a cancer survivor how to have a tumor removed?

Of course not.

Both alcohol addiction and drug addiction are official recognized illnesses and there are professionals who is trained to treat them. Please remove the amateurs from this business. We are talking lives which can be saved.

Oscar your analogy is correct, if we were talking about a treatment center but we are talking one addict/alcoholic helping (helping not counseling) another.
I have helped literally hundreds of addicts and alcoholics, I have never counseled one.
This is basically on the street social situations where we are buying a bottle for a alcoholic to keep him stable till we can get him to a hospital, same with a drug addict buying him a candy bar so he can relax enough to deal with the wait at the hospital.
Upon leaving the 30/60/90 day treatment center assisting them in housing, jobs, social services ect......helping them to attend AA/NA meeting. Beginning their sobriety with education.

[DannyB II]

I've never had an addiction and don't smoke anything at all... but...  certain people come to mind that would benefit from a daily herbal elixir.  

One person's toke is another person's prozac.

[shaggys]

What is really sickening is these addict losers thinking their gonna save everybody else from themselves. They want to convince every weak-minded deadbeat like themselves that they are "powerless" over drugs and alcohol so that they dont have to feel like a degenerate piece of filth for letting a substance control their lives. My question to any neutral person reading this is simple: Do you want your children being "treated" by someone who has already shown by their past behavior that they have absolutely no moral compass whatsoever. DannyBII, Whooter, Suck it and other such trash are always ready to "relapse" and start giving blowjobs for dope money in a heartbeat. I wouldn't allow my children to even associate with ex-crack head, needle junkie human garbage like that.
Come on you troll filth, there is your red meat, wanna bite?

[DannyB II]

What is really sickening is these addict losers thinking their gonna save everybody else from themselves. They want to convince every weak-minded deadbeat like themselves that they are "powerless" over drugs and alcohol so that they dont have to feel like a degenerate piece of filth for letting a substance control their lives. My question to any neutral person reading this is simple: Do you want your children being "treated" by someone who has already shown by their past behavior that they have absolutely no moral compass whatsoever. DannyBII, Whooter, Suck it and other such trash are always ready to "relapse" and start giving blowjobs for dope money in a heartbeat. I wouldn't allow my children to even associate with ex-crack head, needle junkie human garbage like that.
Come on you troll filth, there is your red meat, wanna bite?

Why, we are shuttering to think, this is how you relate to your wife and children. WoW.
Another sick troll fishing for reactions, how pathetic is that.

[psy]

What is really sickening is these addict losers thinking their gonna save everybody else from themselves. They want to convince every weak-minded deadbeat like themselves that they are "powerless" over drugs and alcohol so that they dont have to feel like a degenerate piece of filth for letting a substance control their lives. My question to any neutral person reading this is simple: Do you want your children being "treated" by someone who has already shown by their past behavior that they have absolutely no moral compass whatsoever. DannyBII, Whooter, Suck it and other such trash are always ready to "relapse" and start giving blowjobs for dope money in a heartbeat. I wouldn't allow my children to even associate with ex-crack head, needle junkie human garbage like that.
Come on you troll filth, there is your red meat, wanna bite?

Brutally put, but accurate.  The only thing I'd add to is that they're not "letting anything control" their lives.  Think about that for a second.  "Let control" is a contradiction in terms.  If you can "let" something than it's not really in control.  The whole idea that an inanimate substance can "control" you, take away any free will, and render you powerless is a fatalistic fantasy pushed by those who find it easier to justify their actions to live with themselves.  Taking full responsibility for crappy choices and bad habits, is a lot harder than saying "the disease made me do it... it's not my fault...  the girl i ran over while drunk...  not my fault...  the wife I beat... not my fault... the children I chose to neglect in favor of my base desires... not my fault... and if i 'relapse' and do it all again... it's not my fault...  you gotta 'let go and let god' man...  he didn't give me free will...  i'm the exception...  it's never ever my fault...  i feel like i'm gonna drink and do something stupid again... may the higher power who didn't grant me free will reach down from the heavens and stop me!".

Like with political correctness, concepts often become popular because they are more pleasing to believe in or result in less offense, none of which has anything whatsoever to do with their objectively measured accuracy.  Science gives way to anecdote and quackery because it tells people what they want to hear, not what is real.  Sure getting rid of guilt for past actions can help people feel better about themselves... but at what cost?  Absolving a person of all personal responsibility reduces them to believing they are little more than animals, and if they bite an innocent again, it's the "will of the higher power" rather than base desires unleashed by a doctrine devoid of humanity.  To be human is to be able to make free choices and feel guilt for the bad ones.  Guilt is our way of knowing when we've wronged others and need to make amends, not because of self interest, as some part of "treatment", but because it's the right thing to do.  Guilt is our way of knowing when we need to start making better choices.  Getting rid of guilt by denying the existence of free choice may be more palatable, but the inevitable consequence is more tears for everybody as mistakes are never learned from.

Suck it.  You claim AA/NA are successes.  Post statistics to prove it or shut the hell up.  No statistics, no response.