Fornits group think

[DannyB II]

"Paul St. John" wrote:
This is when the anger and threats begin, which can come in many forms.
The only threats I here around here are from Danny, and he is of your point of view.

Paul, this is a hell of a accusation, please back it up. Yes we have slammed folks pretty hard for their crap here but they deserved it. We have never threatened any one with violence or harassment intentionally or un-intentionally.
Ever!!!!!!!!!!!
Though "you" have and then came to your senses.  
Now, don't run to fast. If you were to find posts from Danny Bennison, you will see I was threatened repetitively, had my house shown, my picture shown, excused of being other people, called at all hours of the night, received threatening letters and on and on.
We were on the Elan Alum site prior to coming here and if Wayne got honest along with others you would know we left there to come here because of the abuse.
Paul, we had just had enough of the wholesale condemnation because are views are different. We were pounded every time we posted. Just ask Mark.
 

Let's check it out:
Ursus, Che Gookin, DJ, Froderik, Eliscu, the Reporter, JOM, Samara, Inculcated, SEKTO, Oz Girl, Anne Bonney, Psy, Ginger, Pile, Nihilanthic, Awake, myself ( other then the time I offered Danny the opportunity to realize his threats)

Che, DJ, Eliscu, Inculcated, Sekto, Ginger, Anne, Pile, Niles, and yourself have all insinuated or out and out threatened me. Go back and look, you will find the posts.
Otherwise Paul, please don't put yourself in the company of Inculcate, Sekto, Froderik, Psy, Samara, Oz Girl, Awake, Ursus, JOM, The Reporter, Che and Ginger because you don't even come close.

Yes we have some who we have had differences with and it came to some very unkind words and insinuated threats but these are stand up people with a quality of honesty that is unshakable.

Now, DJ, Eliscu, Anne, Niles, Piles and yourself form your own crew of deviates. You will stoop to any level to make a point as you are doing here.


You are not hurting me Danny.  I know who I am.. I also know who you are.

Well if you know who I am then you would stop characterizing me in the way you do.

"You offered me the time to realize my threats", Paul your silly boy who plays with very serious men. You had your opportunity and "You" chose not to realize it. Man to Man we both know that, so stop playing up to the crowd.

  I shoulda taped the phone conversation.. You pussy fuck.

This is Paul, when Paul is busted. He calls me names and threatens me.

Show me where any of these people threatened anybody for being pro-program.  The truth is that the majority of the people here are very peaceful, and too intelligent to have the need to resort to violence.
Paul St. John

====================================Paul where are you right now, are you here on fornits. Everybody you have mentioned is out of this conversation waiting for Danny, Suck-It and Whooter to go away, as Ginger quoted once, "there doing the Che" if they ignore us we will go away. NNNNNNNNNNNnnnnnoooooot. We are not going anywhere so I hope y'all have a nice long vacation. Dual opinions can happen here in a civilized manner.

Now your crew on the other hand continues to attack, read how DJ talks to Whooter , Pile talks to Suck IT and you talk to me.
Not good Paul.===========================

Are you trying to make some kind of point here?  Perhaps, you can clarify it for slow people like me.

No, I can't slow down enough to help you. Plus you have it all figured out.

 
Before this freeze out they were attacking left and right in there low level sarcastic demeaning way, which you (Paul) find to be perfectly peaceful and just so intelligent.
 
Paul you really don't read anything before you open your mouth do you. (Now that would be considered a un-peaceful comment to you). Problem is, it is the truth. You are very ignorant to what happens here.

[Whooter]

Whooter, if you cannot trust yourself to take care of your own, that s your problem bro.

Sorry you see it that way.  Sometimes parents need to get help outside the family.  Its a big step to accept that we might not have all the answers.

The fact that I have confidence in myself and those that I care about does not put me anywhere near the level of a pro-life doctor killer.

Confidence has nothing to do with it.  A guy can be confident that that his sister doesn't need Chemotherapy and therefore escapes society, hides her in the woods for 2 years until she dies.  You need to continually learn new things and keep your mind open to the changing world.  Put your own biases aside and open your mind to emerging information.

Also, you betray, in your response that you were being manipulative because were asking me to answer a question based on premises that I have not accepted.

( and in your response, you acknowledge it)

Paul

I guess I missed that.  I reread the posts and don't see how I have tried to manipulate you.  Can you point it out?



...

[Paul St. John]

This is Paul, when Paul is busted. He calls me names and threatens me.

I threatened to go back into the past and tape a phone conversation.

Danny, there is not a single poster at this site, who does not know how you roll, so why not drop the show.

It's as thin as gas.

Paul

[Paul St. John]

be back in an hour..

[DannyB II]

Whooter, if you cannot trust yourself to take care of your own, that s your problem bro.

The fact that I have confidence in myself and those that I care about does not put me anywhere near the level of a pro-life doctor killer.

Also, you betray, in your response that you were being manipulative because were asking me to answer a question based on premises that I have not accepted.

( and in your response, you acknowledge it)

Paul

Paul,
Your having a conversation with a parent that has experienced a circumstance you really internally have no experience to elaborate about.

Your not defining yourself here, you are in a lab (so to speak) theorizing what you would do under similar circumstances based upon your own experiences (being a subject), very complex to say the least.
 
One is "defined" after the fact based upon real actions. Not theoretics.

I believe that your experience in Daytop was horrible for you, as you have said. I also think that there are multiple factors of where "all" this manifested hostility towards Daytop/TTI is coming from.
See I think that many here were having big time problems at home with the parents and upon being sent to the various programs found a source of authority that pushed back unlike how their parents did it. They/we found that we could not pull the shit we were pulling at home (right or wrong), some of us were so pissed off because it appeared our parents or society had won. We were misunderstood and no one was listening.
The problem was the "reactions" we were having because of this confusion. Society and are ignorant parents were dealing with our reactions, example drugs, skipping school, belligerence, criminal activity ect.....
I just think this is something that needs to be looked at also.

[DannyB II]

This is Paul, when Paul is busted. He calls me names and threatens me.

I threatened to go back into the past and tape a phone conversation.

Danny, there is not a single poster at this site, who does not know how you roll, so why not drop the show.

It's as thin as gas.

Paul

I think you left this out, "You pussy fuck".

Paul, your right, "there are a lot of posters that know how we roll". This reputation was built upon a lot of sweat and abuse over the last 9 months. We are very proud of it and I'm sure in time will resonate with the mass here.
All relationships go through periods of time when they are confusing but over time if you are honest your character will stand.
Paul, like I said to you on the phone, this is a Web Site conversations/comments can be misunderstood easily, most of the folks that use my (user name) where having fun, busting balls with folks who harassed us/me continuously. I'm sorry they could dish it out but not take it. Some of these posters got down right personal long before we did.
In time you'll see and if you don't, your lose.

[Paul St. John]

Confidence has nothing to do with it. A guy can be confident that that his sister doesn't need Chemotherapy and therefore escapes society, hides her in the woods for 2 years until she dies. You need to continually learn new things and keep your mind open to the changing world. Put your own biases aside and open your mind to emerging information.

Whooter, I have nothing more to discuss with you.  You keep making these comparisons of me that are not even close to who I am.

You are biased Whooter.  I don't care what you say.  You seek to promote programs, for whatever motive.

I would not need to hide anyone in the woods Whooter. I just feel like I am talking to an idiot.

I made a mistake.. I admitted that I was conflicted.  I admitted that I had uncertainty.  I did it in a hostile environment.  You saw it, and went in for the kill.

Danny, felt that I was on the defense, and so he grew enough balls to start conversing with me again, with of course, your help.

Paul St. John

[Paul St. John]

Whooter, if you cannot trust yourself to take care of your own, that s your problem bro.

The fact that I have confidence in myself and those that I care about does not put me anywhere near the level of a pro-life doctor killer.

Also, you betray, in your response that you were being manipulative because were asking me to answer a question based on premises that I have not accepted.

( and in your response, you acknowledge it)

Paul

Paul,
Your having a conversation with a parent that has experienced a circumstance you really internally have no experience to elaborate about.

Your not defining yourself here, you are in a lab (so to speak) theorizing what you would do under similar circumstances based upon your own experiences (being a subject), very complex to say the least.

This is why I don t like you Danny.  This is why I know you have to go.  Fornits is not a lab for you and your idiot friends.  Your hat of tricks has no bottom.  Do you ever get bored with yourself?

 
One is "defined" after the fact based upon real actions. Not theoretics.

You don t even know what you are talking about Danny.  Whooter is telling me that my veiwpoint is biased.  I am telling him that just because I have an opinion that is defined, does not make me biased, until he can demonstrate that it is wrong.  It is a concept that I build on.  It is my judgement.


I believe that your experience in Daytop was horrible for you, as you have said. I also think that there are multiple factors of where "all" this manifested hostility towards Daytop/TTI is coming from.
See I think that many here were having big time problems at home with the parents and upon being sent to the various programs found a source of authority that pushed back unlike how their parents did it. They/we found that we could not pull the shit we were pulling at home (right or wrong), some of us were so pissed off because it appeared our parents or society had won. We were misunderstood and no one was listening.
The problem was the "reactions" we were having because of this confusion. Society and are ignorant parents were dealing with our reactions, example drugs, skipping school, belligerence, criminal activity ect.....
I just think this is something that needs to be looked at also.

Danny, I know what I experienced.  I did not act out, and they pushed back.. Nor did Elan do that to you.  You show them in a better light then they deserve.  It's hard to believe what I am reading some times.

Paul St. John

[Paul St. John]

This is Paul, when Paul is busted. He calls me names and threatens me.

I threatened to go back into the past and tape a phone conversation.

Danny, there is not a single poster at this site, who does not know how you roll, so why not drop the show.

It's as thin as gas.

Paul

I think you left this out, "You pussy fuck".


I don t think anyone missed it Danny.. That is where I called you names.  My threat on the other hand was to go back time and tape a phone conversation.  I think you should alert athorities.... or perhaps, Morgan's parents can sue me for threatening you.


Paul, your right, "there are a lot of posters that know how we roll". This reputation was built upon a lot of sweat and abuse over the last 9 months. We are very proud of it and I'm sure in time will resonate with the mass here.


It won't.  It's went about as far as it's gonna go.

All relationships go through periods of time when they are confusing but over time if you are honest your character will stand.




Paul, like I said to you on the phone, this is a Web Site conversations/comments can be misunderstood easily, most of the folks that use my (user name) where having fun, busting balls with folks who harassed us/me continuously. I'm sorry they could dish it out but not take it. Some of these posters got down right personal long before we did.
In time you'll see and if you don't, your lose.

There is nothing to see Danny.  You and your's are false.


First, you try to convince a person that A is not A.  

If he gets pass that, and demonstrates that it is....

Then you attack the person for having the gall to selfishly pronounce that A is A.

I've seen all this shit before.

You want to run fornits.  You want to be the authority here.  You try to act all nice, but when you are opposed, you become a maniac.  If that doesn t work, you start telling everyone you love them, like a husband, who just beat his wife.

Much like that husband, you need Fornits, but it doesn t need you.

Paul St. John

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Whooter]

Confidence has nothing to do with it. A guy can be confident that that his sister doesn't need Chemotherapy and therefore escapes society, hides her in the woods for 2 years until she dies. You need to continually learn new things and keep your mind open to the changing world. Put your own biases aside and open your mind to emerging information.

Whooter, I have nothing more to discuss with you.  You keep making these comparisons of me that are not even close to who I am.

You are biased Whooter.  I don't care what you say.  You seek to promote programs, for whatever motive.

I would not need to hide anyone in the woods Whooter. I just feel like I am talking to an idiot.

I made a mistake.. I admitted that I was conflicted.  I admitted that I had uncertainty.  I did it in a hostile environment.  You saw it, and went in for the kill.

Danny, felt that I was on the defense, and so he grew enough balls to start conversing with me again, with of course, your help.

Paul St. John

Look, Paul, I am not sure what you are talking about.  I didnt compare you to anyone.  You have made up your mind, like you said, and you are not open to any more discussion.  That is fine.
I never talked to Danny to help him with your discussion.  I dont even understand what you are talking about with the hostile environment or admitting to anything.  I think you may be confusing posts.

Anyone who has read my posts knows that I view both sides of the issue and keep an open mind.. (we are all biased from our own experiences) but we should keep the door open to new information and not be closed minded.



...

[Joel]

Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010

[Paul St. John]

Joel, I also know who you are...

For the most part, you are alright by me, but I am not here to entertain you.

Paul St. John

[DannyB II]

What I like most about these threads is that they think I'm somehow answerable to them, or their continuous posting of bullshit is somehow going to get me to stop.

I don't.  I disagree with what you did, and I don t give a fuck what you have to say about it.

Danny says I enable you.  I have almost nothing to do with you. You are fully autonomous.  You do not need my enabling.

Paul St. John

Wink, Wink, giggle, giggle.......      

[MorganMDC]

I would also like to add. These threads I post are an attempt to explain the extreme advice given by the people I talked about earlier. I thought maybe they were "trolls" or in other words just joking about their advice, but after observing it appears they actually believe what they are saying. Does nobody else find it strange somebody could actually believe in their own mind, that murdering someone, sending yourself to jail, running away, bankrupting your own family, is somehow better than just going to a treatment center with no history of abuse?

I admit that I am conflicted here.  I do find it crazy recommend to a 15 year old girl that she murder someone, opt for jail, run away , or bankrupt her family.  That is my initial reaction. I find those ideas crazy, and I want nothing to do with them.

Then there is this other bottom-line logic that someone like Pile can no doubt rouse up in me.

- If you are being forced to go somewhere, against your will, that you perceive to be a threat, do you have the right to defend yourself, even to the point, of ending the life, of another(the person applying force to you), if it became absolutely necessary? Although, it would probably not put you in a good place in society, and strategically would be a stupid move, is it morally wrong?

( I don't want to get into too much detail, because the lives of people I know are no one here's business, unless they wanted to talk about them, but as vague, as I can be, growing up, I had a friend, who was a really good guy.  He left one morning to go on a family vacation, that really wasn t. One minute he is sitting in his car, excited about his destination, the next he si surrounded by a bunch of cultist-fucks, trying to physically force him, into their "family-school".  He tried to defend himself with a baseball bat, and it's worth mentioning he was a peaceful guy.

I don't know... as adults, you view things differently- more practical.. but as a kid, 17 years ago, I was proud of him. He was defending himself.  He had problems, but everybody did. It was part of growing up.)


-Now, the jail-thing... For Morgan, No!  I would definitely not recommend jail.  I think she would be better off floating her way through the program, but I do know of people who opted for jail, over going back to Daytop, which wasn t really nearly as bad as some other places, and afterwards, they were really glad they did it.


Running away- again, not for Morgan.. but perhaps for some, in her situation..  We gotta remember here.  They didn t give her any outs.  They told her that if she did this, and that, she didn t have to go, but when she agreed, she still had to go no matter what.  dad was willing to keep his promise, but mom had made her mind up long ago... And it s also worth mentioning here, that while I strongly disagree with what Pile did, with the posting of the info and such, I don t disagree that the parents are assholes, and the things that I learned from what he posted, only confirmed that further for me.  I am not gonna jump on Danny B's boat about "Parent Abuse".  Adults can take care of themselves, which is clearly demonstrated by how people deal with his attacks. When I saw the pics of Morgan's mom, I asked myself, "and what program shall we send this one too?"

My opinion based on what I saw, is that she wants her "troubled" daughter out of the way, so she has less impediments to pursue her own troubles.

I went off on a tangent there, but I would say that in her situation, there might be some who would be better off running away.  I am basing this on my memories and experiences from when I was a child. Today I would never consider giving that as advice though.  (hence, my being conflicted)


Bankrupting your own family to avoid going?  I gotta admit it sounds really fucked up, and selfiish to me..

But now let's say you are a kid, and don t want to be shipped off.  Your parents are sending you away with little regard, or any curiosity about how you feel about it.  We all spoke to Morgan.  She was a very intelligent, mature young woman.  We are not talking about a girl getting high on drugs, inflicting harm against herself, a pyro -maniac, or any other shit.  What is her best defense?  Her family has turned her back on her, is it morally wrong for her to attempt to bankrupt her family for protection from them?  I don t know.. She would only be trying to defend herself.. I wouldn t offer it as advice, because in the end, she will only be making more problems for herself.  It is a dumb silly idea.  DJ is silly.  It is ashame too.  because if he matured a bit, he could be very effective.



In my life, I don t have to worry about none of this shit.  I just know, somehow, that no one that I care about, will go to one of these programs, so long as I am alive.  I trust myself to make sure of that, as sure as the sky is blue, without my having to do anything stupid, reccomend anything stupid, or cause harm to anyone.

Paul St. John

Ah, thanks for this.