Author Topic: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....  (Read 33523 times)

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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #225 on: March 19, 2010, 08:37:08 PM »
..
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 06:20:27 PM by DannyB II »
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #226 on: March 19, 2010, 08:41:01 PM »
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« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 06:21:06 PM by DannyB II »
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Offline psy

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #227 on: March 19, 2010, 08:52:10 PM »
I think between the this topic and the others started around the same time (below), just about everything has been covered.  Now it's just going around in circles.  I'm tempted to just merge these topics into one huge supertopic.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30027
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30009
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30014
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=30002

Not that I don't' find the discussion of AA facinating...  I just think a disproportionate amount of time is being spent on this issue compared to going after actual programs.  Weigh things out, people.
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #228 on: March 19, 2010, 09:28:07 PM »
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« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 06:21:46 PM by DannyB II »
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Offline psy

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #229 on: March 19, 2010, 09:35:09 PM »
Look. I'm not trying to shut anybody up about AA. I just see 90% of the recent focus being on it, rather than on actual programs such as ELAN, Cedu clones, WWASP, Straight clones, and so forth. I'll be frank. I can't stand AA, but what I hate more is forced treatment, especially of teens.  I could care less what that forced treatment is comprised of.  It's all wrong.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anti-Troll

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #230 on: March 19, 2010, 09:41:34 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Psy,
I have been trying to bend the conversation more to the genesis of AA being introduced into TC's, the evolution of AA used as a methodology in these very same programs. I am very ignorant when it comes to this topic.
I understand your opinion about time being consumed talking about AA yet I don't think it is disproportionate. What I believe is disproportionate is the spamming of this thread. If folks that went to TC.s or whatever replied rationally or otherwise then moved on this would have ended long ago. But the constant spamming and negative feedback kept out positive feedback I believe. Who wants to be attacked. We had a gentleman post yesterday and his head was ripped off for mentioning a program someone didn't like and that he liked AA. This program used the 7 steps of AA.  
Psy it is no mystery that yourself and many others have no liking for AA but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a place here it does. A very big place I am beginning to see. It effected many folks here and is still effecting children. So I don't understand why AA does not have it's own forum.
I am not trying to antagonize people with this, first let me understand why AA is even in these programs (which makes absolutely no sense to me, since it is based upon attraction and other reasons to long to mention). This is a very credible thread if everyone would take it serious.
Danny
:bs:  :bs:  :bs:  :bs:

Wake up
Call Elan for my daily instructions
Post on Fornits
Suck Ken Zaretsky’s COCK
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Drink Wild Irish Rose
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Panhandle for drink money
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Suck off Marty Kruglik
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Drink Whiskey
Post on Fornits
Put on rubber gloves
Post on Fornits
stick finger up my anus
Post on Fornits
Shove my whole fist up my anus
Post on Fornits
Smell my hand
Post on Fornits
Lick my hand
Post on Fornits
Drink more whiskey
Post on Fornits
Recruit new AA members to molest at later date
Post on Fornits
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline FemanonFatal2.0

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #231 on: March 19, 2010, 09:42:30 PM »
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
Oh and I vote to change this topic to "Danny B's attitudes on AA border on the absurd...."

 :shamrock:
Femanon do you think you can keep yourself from regressing to your adolescence time and have a big girl conversation. Now you said you were in college, please act like it.
 :shamrock:

Danny

First things first, I am neither 23 nor in college any longer and I haven't "lived at home" since I was 17 years old. For the most part it has been in practice that I have studied this subject both in my personal life and career. I have worked for many years as a caretaker and family mediator/ counselor for special needs kids ages 4 to 18 as well worked with adults of many ages, most of which is volunteered time for various women and children's shelters, and yes, even a few drug rehabs and group homes for teens. This isn't just a class for me, it's a passion. I am fortunate enough to have a work schedule that allows me time to have such a rewarding hobby, I don't claim to be professional yet, but I consider this a great way to continue studying the human condition.

I will agree with you, I have definitely  generalized my statements and I will be the first to tell you that there is no such thing as black and white... I have plenty of friends currently in AA and I enjoy their presence just as much as I do those who are not in the program. My problem is not necessarily with the people of AA, its mostly with the doctrine and the way certain practices are common place, when in a professional therapeutic setting, these practices would be avoided at all costs.

Please forgive my tendency to use my education as a comparison to the experiences I have had with different treatment methods... In my opinion that is just how one would better themselves and god forbid challenge the current policies in hopes that a more successful technique be created. I think it takes people standing up and asking questions (even generalized ones) in order to break the mode and make some progress. It's only those who are so deeply rooted in their beliefs that don't give people a chance to step in and make any suggestions. Truth be told I would still be going to AA if it were more like a support group and a lot less like a cult.

I do not generalize out of ignorance, simply put, I already ramble on and on and I don't really have the time or patience to dive into the specifics of my issues with AA, maybe I'll make an effort next time but at this point I just don't see what good it would do to attach a disclaimer to every statement I make about it not being applicable to EVERYONE EVERYWHERE. You'd think it would be common sense but can we just go ahead and make that assumption in the future?... thanks.

As far as me actually being an expert, I guess I must clarify that that was me just being facetious... in no way would I EVER claim to be an expert in AA... I'm just saying I had my fair share of an experience, and that is what has lead me to the qualms I have. Sure, you could say I was forced... but truth be told at that point in my life I was actually convinced that I was an addict and if I didn't go to those meetings I would fall back into that whole "druggie lifestyle" we talked about... well it took me some time but I came to a realization, I'm not going to perpetrate that what I believe is "right" in my case is "right" for all, but I believe I now have a more logical, less program/AA influenced opinion. I have shared this opinion with you and you may not agree, but what troubles me is that you infer I am being illogical, when ironically it is the nonsensical nature of AA/NA that I am attempting to point out. You say my "broad interpretations of AA are comical"... Well, that's good to hear because some of the things I say are meant to be comical, some things are just not meant to be taken literally or assumed to be absolute. Again, just another thing I like to leave up to common sense.

Like I said, I don't really have time to get into the specifics... another time perhaps... but hey, don't get so bent outta shape about what I think... you can take it or leave it I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 12:38:36 PM by FemanonFatal2.0 »
[size=150]When Injustice Becomes Law
...Rebellion Becomes Duty...[/size]




[size=150]WHEN THE RAPTURE COMES
CAN I HAVE YOUR FLAT SCREEN?[/size]

Offline Whooter

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #232 on: March 19, 2010, 09:53:34 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Look. I'm not trying to shut anybody up about AA. I just see 90% of the recent focus being on it, rather than on actual programs such as ELAN, Cedu clones, WWASP, Straight clones, and so forth. I'll be frank. I can't stand AA, but what I hate more is forced treatment, especially of teens.  I could care less what that forced treatment is comprised of.  It's all wrong.


Everything is forced on kids until they are old enough to decide for themselves.  How many kids do you think walk up to their parents and say I need therapy?  I need to be grounded because I broke curfew?  I need an intervention because I just accidently infected a toddler with aids?  Send me to a program, I deserve it?

The parents choose everything, psy.  The hope is that the child will take to the therapy within the program eventually which most of them do.  Most kids end up connecting to their therapist after a few visits and start to feel comfortable.  It doesn’t happen overnight.  It takes time.  It may seem forced at first and I understand your concerns but kids need a little nudge now and then.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #233 on: March 19, 2010, 10:14:30 PM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "psy"
Look. I'm not trying to shut anybody up about AA. I just see 90% of the recent focus being on it, rather than on actual programs such as ELAN, Cedu clones, WWASP, Straight clones, and so forth. I'll be frank. I can't stand AA, but what I hate more is forced treatment, especially of teens.  I could care less what that forced treatment is comprised of.  It's all wrong.


Everything is forced on kids until they are old enough to decide for themselves.  How many kids do you think walk up to their parents and say I need therapy?  I need to be grounded because I broke curfew?  I need an intervention because I just accidently infected a toddler with aids?  Send me to a program, I deserve it?

Therapy should always be voluntary.  Grounding is perfectly reasonable, though I think teens should also be able to emancipate if they choose.  A kid in a program cannot choose to do so and as such can be sent to a program for any reason whatsoever, including no reason at all.  Infecting a toddler with aids?  Prison for a very long time, not treatment.

You seem to be of the mistaken opinion I'm in favor of letting kids run around rampant without fear of getting punished.  I don't feel that way at all.  On the contrary I feel they should be held to the exact same standards as adults if they are to be given the liberties of adults earlier on.  Freedom comes with responsibility and all that jazz.

So what age would I deem appropriate for adulthood?  I'd say it should be whenever a kid expresses a desire to emancipate.  At that point they are given all the freedom of an adult combined with all the responsibilities.  Read Rothbard's thoughts on this:

http://mises.org/rothbard/ethics/fourteen.asp

You don't have to agree with everything he says ( I don't ), but he has some very valid points on how giving kids liberties earlier on wouldn't necessarily be the end of the world.

Quote
The parents choose everything, psy.  The hope is that the child will take to the therapy within the program eventually which most of them do.  Most kids end up connecting to their therapist after a few visits and start to feel comfortable.  It doesn’t happen overnight.  It takes time.  It may seem forced at first and I understand your concerns but kids need a little nudge now and then.

I'm all in favor of convincing kids to get treatment if they have psychological problems.  I'm just not convinced force is ever required.  Even in cases where it "works", which is rare in my opinion since forced treatment often causes long term harm and rarely if ever lasts in the long term, it's still not ethical.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline DannyB II

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #234 on: March 19, 2010, 10:30:04 PM »
...
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 06:23:26 PM by DannyB II »
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Offline Whooter

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #235 on: March 19, 2010, 10:53:39 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Whooter"
Quote from: "psy"
Look. I'm not trying to shut anybody up about AA. I just see 90% of the recent focus being on it, rather than on actual programs such as ELAN, Cedu clones, WWASP, Straight clones, and so forth. I'll be frank. I can't stand AA, but what I hate more is forced treatment, especially of teens.  I could care less what that forced treatment is comprised of.  It's all wrong.


Everything is forced on kids until they are old enough to decide for themselves.  How many kids do you think walk up to their parents and say I need therapy?  I need to be grounded because I broke curfew?  I need an intervention because I just accidently infected a toddler with aids?  Send me to a program, I deserve it?

Therapy should always be voluntary.  Grounding is perfectly reasonable, though I think teens should also be able to emancipate if they choose.  A kid in a program cannot choose to do so and as such can be sent to a program for any reason whatsoever, including no reason at all.  Infecting a toddler with aids?  Prison for a very long time, not treatment.

You seem to be of the mistaken opinion I'm in favor of letting kids run around rampant without fear of getting punished.  I don't feel that way at all.  On the contrary I feel they should be held to the exact same standards as adults if they are to be given the liberties of adults earlier on.  Freedom comes with responsibility and all that jazz.

So what age would I deem appropriate for adulthood?  I'd say it should be whenever a kid expresses a desire to emancipate.  At that point they are given all the freedom of an adult combined with all the responsibilities.  Read Rothbard's thoughts on this:

http://mises.org/rothbard/ethics/fourteen.asp

You don't have to agree with everything he says ( I don't ), but he has some very valid points on how giving kids liberties earlier on wouldn't necessarily be the end of the world.

Quote
The parents choose everything, psy.  The hope is that the child will take to the therapy within the program eventually which most of them do.  Most kids end up connecting to their therapist after a few visits and start to feel comfortable.  It doesn’t happen overnight.  It takes time.  It may seem forced at first and I understand your concerns but kids need a little nudge now and then.

I'm all in favor of convincing kids to get treatment if they have psychological problems.  I'm just not convinced force is ever required.  Even in cases where it "works", which is rare in my opinion since forced treatment often causes long term harm and rarely if ever lasts in the long term, it's still not ethical.

This is forced also: "Look, get out of the car and atleast meet with the therapist.  If you dont your grounded until we figure something else out."

.....But, well, Okay, I'll take a look at what Rothbard says.



...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline DannyB II

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #236 on: March 20, 2010, 11:00:19 PM »
..
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 06:24:27 PM by DannyB II »
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #237 on: April 25, 2010, 10:47:38 AM »
...
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 06:24:59 PM by DannyB II »
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Offline Froderik

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #238 on: April 25, 2010, 11:40:17 AM »
I'm tired of being tormented to hell, that's what I'm tired of.
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Offline DannyB II

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Re: Fornits attitudes on AA border on the absurd....
« Reply #239 on: April 25, 2010, 11:43:59 AM »
....
« Last Edit: September 16, 2011, 06:38:21 PM by DannyB II »
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