Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS)
Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is that?
FemanonFatal2.0:
why can't I delete my own posts?
FemanonFatal2.0:
One more thing, and maybe this is just a personal question to you Whooter... You say your daughter went to an Aspen program. I'm assuming, and correct me if I'm generalizing here, but you credit this particular program for your daughter's personal success in life. What really blows my mind is how a belief like this really takes credit away from the level of hard work, maturity and growth that your daughter was intelligent enough to achieve. When had it been a different outcome, you would not blame the program for her failures.
What I find funny about this whole "program saved my life" thing is that how can you really tell that if she weren't to have gone to that particular program that her life would really be over. I just find it hard to believe even a handful of the thousands of kids run through these programs would really be dead, insane or in jail had it not been for the god sent program... lol I mean, seriously how many teens can REALLY be on such an intense path of destruction by the tender age of 15?... that's really quite a tall order to fill.
Yet SOOOO many people resite this mantra like its some kind of biblical truth... and WERE the crazy ones? hahaha oh wow.
the sad part is, there are many kids after having completed or at least spending a considerable amount of time in a program that ARE dead, insane or in jail or in some cases, all three. Now let me ask you who is responsible for them? did the program save their lives or were they responsible for their own choices? You can't have it both ways, either the program made us who we are success or failure aside or we are still in control of our destiny and regardless of if the program "worked" or not, its not responsible for the choices we make from the day we left that place.
I hate when people say AA keeps them sober, No you idiot YOU keep YOU sober and the same goes for the program. The program doesn't save lives, it simply provides an opportunity to put things into perspective. That being said, I dont think being a privately funded prison gives these places the right to mistreat kids for what they have mistaken to be their own good. Somehow these people need to come to this realization, and hopefully so before they ruin anymore lives.
Joel:
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0" ---If we paid the same research company to take a poll here at fornits about the TTI I'm pretty sure our numbers would be discouraging, because that is the pool we are fishing those numbers from, and although I side with most of the opinions of my fellow fornitcators I would in no way use this outcome to refer to fact. I would need to have experienced something myself to refer to anything as fact, and that is exactly what I am doing. I don't have any experience with Aspen so you won't see me bashing them, but I do have experience with other programs that operate a very similar program structure and I believe it is a FACT that many of the methods used by these programs are unethical and DO NOT WORK.
--- End quote ---
Oh, now I understand your point of view. A friend of my sister was the same way and wouldn’t believe anything unless she experienced it herself. It use to frustrate the crap out of my sister but everyone is different and entitled to their own opinion and they are still good friends today.
--- Quote ---One more thing, and maybe this is just a personal question to you Whooter... You say your daughter went to an Aspen program. I'm assuming, and correct me if I'm generalizing here, but you credit this particular program for your daughter's personal success in life. What really blows my mind is how a belief like this really takes credit away from the level of hard work, maturity and growth that your daughter was intelligent enough to achieve. When had it been a different outcome, you would not blame the program for her failures.
What I find funny about this whole "program saved my life" thing is that how can you really tell that if she weren't to have gone to that particular program that her life would really be over. I just find it hard to believe even a handful of the thousands of kids run through these programs would really be dead, insane or in jail had it not been for the god sent program... lol I mean, seriously how many teens can REALLY be on such an intense path of destruction by the tender age of 15?... that's really quite a tall order to fill.
Yet SOOOO many people resite this mantra like its some kind of biblical truth... and WERE the crazy ones? hahaha oh wow.
the sad part is, there are many kids after having completed or at least spending a considerable amount of time in a program that ARE dead, insane or in jail or in some cases, all three. Now let me ask you who is responsible for them? did the program save their lives or were they responsible for their own choices? You can't have it both ways, either the program made us who we are success or failure aside or we are still in control of our destiny and regardless of if the program "worked" or not, its not responsible for the choices we make from the day we left that place.
I hate when people say AA keeps them sober, No you idiot YOU keep YOU sober and the same goes for the program. The program doesn't save lives, it simply provides an opportunity to put things into perspective. That being said, I dont think being a privately funded prison gives these places the right to mistreat kids for what they have mistaken to be their own good. Somehow these people need to come to this realization, and hopefully so before they ruin anymore lives.
--- End quote ---
My daughter did all the hard work, not the program. If my daughter had not done as well it would not be the fault of the people running the program. It may have been because she didn’t apply herself or maybe the particular program structure wasn’t a good match for her. There are people who attend great Universities and they go off and get menial entry level positions. Should this diminish the University at all? Should the university take credit for the successful students? In my opinion it is the student who does the work and makes him or herself successful. The schools provide the tools and knowledge for the kids to be successful. Whether the kids utilize the information is up to them.
So I think we agree 100% here,femaononfatal.
But to expand a little here, children do need help. There are 1,500 to 2,000 kids who commit suicide each year and many more end up arrested for illegal activity. Not sure how many go insane (LOL). But parents would be crazy not to try to help them. Very few of these parents have experienced a program personally so they need to rely on studies and word of mouth to decide if a program is right for their family. 80% of the kids in programs have received local services and found them to be ineffective for them. Like we mentioned earlier some kids are not helped by these programs and continue down a dark path or are helped and then decide to go back to their past behaviors.
So I think we agree here that if a child leaves a program and does poorly we cannot blame the program for their failure the same as we do not credit the program for their successes. The same with AA, the individuals need to do the work they cant just rely on the meetings. If they start drinking again or commit suicide no one is going to blame AA for their choices.
Good discussion, Femanonfatal.
...
Troll Control:
Whooter's holding out on you people here.
He is still claiming not to have any ties to the TTI, but you can see right here where he admits he is indeed deeply involved in the TTI.
Ask him why, if he's just a "regular parent" he would be advising TTI players "where the real money is - the TBS industry."
He's just jerking your chains, Joel and Fem.
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