Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS)
Way more kids praise programs than attack them, why is that?
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "Ursus" ---Yes, yes, we've gone through this song and dance before. Several times, I think. I guess this "study" musta got soooo bunked, Whooter, that you're too embarrassed to furnish the link anymore. Here it is, for those who don't have it yet: http://groups.colgate.edu/cjs/student_p ... hapiro.pdf
As has been pointed out previously, this is a student paper, apparently done as part of Shapiro's graduation requirements. While I wouldn't be willing to toss it on that basis alone, it becomes readily apparent, even on the first read ... that this is a whole lot o' spun sugar. Note that results are presented in terms of percentages, the better to obscure the statistical irrelevance of the actual numbers, lol.
--- End quote ---
I know, Ursus, these studies are a thorn in your side, but they just wont go away. No one has debunked any of them that I am aware of. But you can keep hoping.. in the mean time lets take a look.
You can gain quite a bit of information by pulling a small sample. If you have 500 people and you interview a small sample of say 13, then there are statistical tables which will tell you how confident you can be in your results… i.e 90%, 95%, 99%, 99.9% etc. and the degree of error you can expect to be built into your results (i.e. +/- 5%). Thats the strength of statistics, you don't need to sample everyone to gain a perspective!
Ursus I held off in responding to give yourself a chance to edit your post. You must be very unfamiliar with statistics if you think using percentages is a flaw of some type. They go hand in hand.
I thought the Shapiro study was very interesting. The program opened their doors to a graduate student who had very little to no knowledge of the industry and allowed her to conduct a study. (This is the same program which allowed a Pulitzer prized author to follow students through their entire stay and then wrote a book on his findings). So some could argue that she was not experienced enough to know what questions to ask and maybe someone who had previous experience with the industry would be in a better position to conduct studies… Hmmm. But either way information is information and we need to consider all of it. I think it would be short sighted of us to toss out and ignore survivors stories because there were only 4 or 5 recorded here on fornits vs the tens of thousands who have graduated and calling them insignificant.
Overall the Shapiro study showed the program of ASR to be very effective and encouraged more studies to be conducted. This also discarded the believes here that these programs are secretive and operate behind closed doors. Also, like Anne mentioned, "there are other studies out there" which further supports the fact that these programs are effective.
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pelberglaw:
to danny b- I am a new jersey lawyer. My name is phil elberg. I have been interested in these issues since i litigated the Kids/Miller Newton cases a few years back. I have been involved in litigation against Thayer Learning Center and defended/represented ISAC and FORNITS in lawsuits against them started by Sue Scheff, WWASP and Thayer Learning Center. I was President of the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA) for several years and I am on the CAFETY advisory board.
to anonymous- I am not interested in a back and forth with you for the reasons I have previously expressed. I find your anonymous presence on this site creepy. I am interested in reading anything that you or anyone else believes is a study that supports what these programs do. I have read the Behrens work. I have read a 1999 dissertation by Keith Russell which is oft cited. I have read David Marcus' well written book, What it takes to Pull me Through. What else is there that has been published anywhere by anyone you believe is independent as you understand that word that supports what the facilities you believe in do. If there is a follow up on the Behrens work please tell me where to find it. You refer to studies-plural (not study) and I would like to know what you are referring to. Again, i am not interested in your views or a debate but a list would be great. I am hopeful to write on these issues in the next few months and I do not want to miss anything. Thanks
DannyB II:
--- Quote from: "Anne Bonney" ---
--- Quote from: "DannyB II" ---
I wish Anne but it just is not true, actually you are the small percentage and your high middle class to upper class folks you hang with here.
Most of the folks we listen to here, came from middle to upper class parents who paid for the treatment, though the treatment was probably bogus.
So Anne your right, in your world those 3 choices were probably not valid but outside your world where the masses live those choices are.
--- End quote ---
What?? I truly have no idea what the hell you're trying to say.
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Anne what I am saying, is I don't believe you even know folks with limited choices in life even exist, you cannot identify.
You come from a different world.
There are many people out there Anne, more then I think you know, with 3 choices.......death, jails or mental hospitals. Period.
DannyB II:
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DannyB II:
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