Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Aspen Education Group
Ellen Behren's Industry Study Funded by AEG
Anonymous:
Heal, isac, cafety supply documentations of legitimate scientific inquiry into Lifespring (est), Synanon and their derivative cultic gulags posing as "schools," sworn testimony, links to the federal investigation (GAO) of the same, copies of lawsuits, paperwork related to criminal investigation: info bearing on reality. That is not propaganda. Propaganda is the manipulative use of deceptions and / or falsities to "sway" and influence.
An example of propaganda can be seen where you, John D Reuben, impersonate the canyon researcher, knowing full well you are not him, in order to influence (dumb, credulous) readers of this forum.
Literally sacrificing your first born to the Synanon - Est cult, Academy At Swift River and SUWS wilderness programs (Aspen education Group) was not enough of a sacrificial gesture for you. You continue to sacrifice any ounce of integrity you have with your constant, intentional lies on this forum.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl= ... BQQqwQwAA#
Mark, contact ISAC, CAFETY, HEAL, ASTART,
Fican http://ficanetwork.net/
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "try another castle" ---
--- Quote from: "Jim Bunson" ---
--- Quote from: "Mark DeGroot." ---
--- Quote ---MARK: PLEASE CONTACT ISAC, HEAL, AND CAFETY.
--- End quote ---
I tried all of those organizations and none of them were interested in talking to me. It seems they only wanted to hear negative things about the industry and disregarded any facts that I presented. Then I come here to fornits and feel I am getting pushed out by all the trolling.
Why is this? Why not have a valid discussion?
Mark DeGroot
--- End quote ---
I have tried them too in the past and they work only off of negative propaganda towards the industry. Facts are not important to them, just a spin that will serve their purpose. You can try again but you will get the same response.
--- End quote ---
I think one of the reasons why I just don't get into deeper debates with industry people on this forum as much as I used to is because it kind of feels the same way as watching some stupid 24 hour news channel (pick any of them, it's not just fox) that makes you want to yell at the television because of how blatant the hypocrisy and double standards are.. and then you remember that they can't hear you, because they are in a picture box.
Probably why I limit myself to more relevant and hard-hitting material such as project runway, monsters inside me, and whatever is on the history channel.
--- End quote ---
Try looking at it from our point of view. Any study that is tossed on the table is rejected for any reason that can be found, i.e. author was too close to the industry, author didn’t know anything about the industry. The results are rarely discussed.
Take the programs themselves. No one will discuss any positive aspects of a program, ever. This is why the survivor stories need to be taken with a grain of salt. If you have ever had a conversation with someone outside of fornits you get a balanced discussion i.e the food was okay, some staff members were nice, the school sucked never got anything out of it, but the teachers were cool. You never get that here because there is an agenda which drives everything negative which prevents people from telling the whole truth.
The position here is that every program is the same and nothing has changed since 1972. If someone says the staff are okay then you get a story about a 300 pound staff member sitting on a student. If you say the program you attended didn’t isolate you from others you get a photo of “The Hobbit” and a story from 1978 insinuating that it still happens.
If you try to have an adult conversation here you get teen speak and stories of Gulags, detainees, kidnappings, prison guards and murders.
If you say that programs are safe you get arguments that kids kill themselves 8 years after leaving a program and therefore is the fault of the program. Yet they can rarely show any kids who are actually killed in a program or abused.
It is a dance and a perception that is kept alive by denying that anything has changed since the 1970’s and if anyone tries to break thru that perception then the squad comes out and squashes the idea. Fornits is a group think bigger than anyone on the inside realizes.
Try making a few posts that you were abused in a program and then try making a few posts that says you were helped by one or introduce a study. See if you are welcomed equally
Interesting to say the least.
try another castle:
--- Quote ---Try making a few posts that you were abused in a program and then try making a few posts that says you were helped by one or introduce a study. See if you are welcomed equally
Interesting to say the least.
--- End quote ---
Maybe it's time to move the only positive program reviews away from the referral pimp sites and just push it all out onto yelp. The good, the bad, the whatever.
Might as well. Consumer reviews and feedback are always fun to read.
--- Quote ---Try looking at it from our point of view
--- End quote ---
Wow. Irony.
Whooter:
--- Quote from: "try another castle" ---
--- Quote ---Try making a few posts that you were abused in a program and then try making a few posts that says you were helped by one or introduce a study. See if you are welcomed equally
Interesting to say the least.
--- End quote ---
Maybe it's time to move the only positive program reviews away from the referral pimp sites and just push it all out onto yelp. The good, the bad, the whatever.
Might as well. Consumer reviews and feedback are always fun to read.
--- Quote ---Try looking at it from our point of view
--- End quote ---
Wow. Irony.
--- End quote ---
Imagine if a Pulitzer prized author decided to investigate the Industry and joins a peer group and lives at a program 24/7 for over a year and then writes a book about his findings. Wouldn’t you think this would be valuable information? Do you think it would be discussed here?
Well it all happened and the book was tossed aside here at fornits because no abuse was found and the reality didn’t fit with the fornits perception. We all see the books being offered at the top of each page here yet this one was withheld. Something to think about.
If fornits was about transparency and honesty then why is information constantly withheld or omitted ?
Troll Control:
--- Quote from: "Actual Mark DeGroot, The Original Canyon Poster" ---
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---
--- Quote from: "Mark DeGroot" ---For the record, I did NOT write the above. It appears the poster is so weak of mind and evidence he or she feels the need to impersonate me to try to prove a point. Obviously, this person has conceded that I have credibility and he/she doesn't, or he/she wouldn't be trying to convince people he/she is me. Just goes to show this person has no credibility.
I worked for Canyon and it's an "inside business" creating marketing materials for programs, mostly Aspen programs. Most Aspen programs don't even offer any treatment and all of the ones Canyon looked into provided no therapy or treatment plan, which was the concern of legitimate researchers on our staff. It quickly became clear that this exercise was purely for marketing and sales, not science, so roughly 75% of Canyon employees resigned due to this ethical problem.
It didn't stop Canyon from collecting AEG's money, plus "royalties" for every kid sent to Aspen where the intake revealed the parents relied on this information. Canyon is essentially making referral fees or lasting royalties based on Aspen enrollment, so of course Canyon will make Aspen look successful, even if the data don't suggest that at all.
Ellen was the director of an Aspen program and failed to disclose tht fact to us or to critics of the study. It's a massive red flag in research science.
--- End quote ---
I posted this, but am again being trolled by someone trying to impersonate me. Is this how 'program parents' behave here? I've been on other forums where they are respectful even if they disagree. This person represents the worst type of person: the ones who only seek to stifle dialog, like the one everyone calls 'The Who' here.
Someone before said the guy trolling me is him. If so, why doesn't he just make some sort of factual argument to rebut what I've said instead of playing games like a little kid?
I worked at Canyon Research, so just ask if you want to know the truth about their business. this other person pretending to be me obviously is some sort of marketer wanting to change the subject when it gets ugly, just like at Canyon. Hmmm...
--- End quote ---
I'm not going to engage in baby games with this John Reuben guy. I wrote the above, but none of the other posts and now that guy has made a username of MY NAME. That still does not make him me. He obviously knows nothing about Canyon and doesn't know any of the people there. I do. But you people can handle your own trolls here, I have better things to do with my time than engage'The Who' in juvenile games. But, just so everyone is clear, I DO NOT have a username and the person posting as username "Mark DeGroot" is not me.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for sharing what you know about this so-called study, Mark. Industry people hate it when insiders spill the beans about what they don't want to become public. They turn on, and eat, their own with vigor. It's a sign that they know they're losing ground or have lost the argument.
This TheWho fellow that has created a log in name with your name is typical of this. You can see he abandoned rational debate and went right on to ad hominems and impersonating you. He couldn't refute your information, nor does he know anything about Canyon, or even studies for that matter. He's basically mindless, only present to disrupt. All he wants to make sure of is that nothing gets discussed.
Impersonating you is the way he deals with the fact that he lost this argument. But don't feel special. He lost this argument several years ago to a woman named Deborah who exposed him as a fraud. He's so venomous and bitter about this that he still brings her up to this day, even though most people don't know who she is, as she hasn't posted in years.
Programs are hurting. The economy is weak and killing their revenue. They have been exposed legally in many states and have lost millions upon millions in lawsuits. They're shutting down left and right. And places like Fornits expose the workers who help to break the law and hurt kids so that they can't work with kids if employers check.
Like the child abuser who recently got hired and fired from a school district. He was exposed by Fornits to show his criminal history and outstanding charges of battering a child and he was fired right away. This incenses people like TheWho that support child abusers and even refer children to be abused by them, like he did his own two sons. The older one is dead now from an overdose. The younger one said in his groups at HLA that he thought his father caused his mother's death. This is one screwed up person you're dealing with here, Mark. Plus he runs a feeder group that uses government juvenile justice money to send delinquents to Aspen Education Group programs.
He's deeply invested and will fight dishonestly, tooth and nail, to keep his piece of the pie. He is actually the only poster that disagrees with you on this thread, but he spends a lot of time posting as various people and trolling anyone who brings substance, as you did by exposing Canyon as the fraud that it truly is.
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