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Offline ajax13

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Pathological
« on: September 10, 2009, 04:16:35 PM »
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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"AARC will go on serving youth and families as long as it will be needed, if it keeps open to God for inspiration" Dr. F. Dean Vause Executive Director


MR. NELSON: Mr. Speaker, AADAC has been involved with
assistance in developing the program of the Alberta Adolescent
Recovery Centre since its inception originally as Kids of the
Canadian West."
Alberta Hansard, March 24, 1992

Offline Anonymous

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Re: Pathological
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2009, 04:53:35 PM »
Here is the whole bunch of people guarding against the invasion of their privacy:
http://www.youtube.com/user/123AARC
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Offline anonAARCgrad

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Re: Pathological
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2009, 09:00:52 AM »
Wierd - didn't see

Jason Woods
Bret Schmidt
Cody Bates
Andy Evans

Won't see the suicides and overdoses.

Funny how most if not all of the ones I saw are on staff or former staff members.

Just expecting Vince from the Sham Wow to make an appearance.
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Offline Ursus

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Alberta drug rehab centre abused us, former teen patients al
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2009, 07:02:35 PM »
Alberta drug rehab centre abused us, former teen patients allege
Executive director calls them 'liars,' former patient denies abuses
Last Updated: Friday, February 13, 2009 | 6:00 PM MT
CBC News


The Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre, based in Calgary, claims an 80 per cent success rate. (CBC)

A Calgary facility that is supposed to help teens overcome addictions is the subject of some abuse allegations, a CBC investigation has found.

More than a dozen former patients and staff of the Alberta Adolescent Recovery Centre allege the residential program manipulated people into treatment, held them against their will and administered abusive therapy.

Other allegations against the centre include one patient who was treated but claimed she was not an addict at all. One patient alleged she was sexually assaulted by a fellow patient, while another said she was attacked in a closet at the centre.

Patients alleged that when they reported abuse to the centre, they were either told they were liars or it was their own fault.

The CBC's The Fifth Estate uncovered the allegations during an extensive investigation.

The centre, which opened in February 1992 with $500,000 in public funding, has operated for nearly 17 years. It receives $400,000 a year in provincial funding.

Head of facility denies allegations

Former patients of the centre — some of whom went on to work there as counsellors despite having no formal training — are among its harshest critics.


Former patient Rachel O'Neill alleged she was sexually assaulted by two people in a supply closet at the centre.  (CBC)

"I think that what [the centre] is, is a predator to those who need help," said Scott Fowkes.

Added Christine Lunn, "I would say that they terrorized us. I would use the word brutalize."

Another former patient, Bodana Kibble, alleged that Dean Vause, the centre's executive director, is "a power-hungry monster."

After six months of Vause declining to be interviewed for the story, The Fifth Estate's Gillian Findlay went to the centre with a hidden camera to confront him.

He denied the allegations, calling the former patients "liars," and insisted no abuse has ever been reported to him.

Centre claims high success rate

"But I would just say to you Gillian, be careful because I'm telling you I've worked in this field for 25 years. They're the best cons in the world …," said Vause.

"But I think that's part of the pathology, the difficulty of working in addictions. It's tough because you're going to have people turn on you because you confront them."

Despite its critics, the centre has committed supporters, who helped raise half a million dollars at a fundraising event in 2008. It costs $50,000 a year to treat a patient at the centre. Patients who cannot afford treatment are subsidized.

One former patient who spoke to The Fifth Estate credits the centre for saving his life. After eight months at the centre, Jordan Remple said he no longer uses drugs or alcohol and returned to work there as a peer counsellor.

He said he has never seen abuse at the centre and criticism of the program bothers him.

"I guess like no one's going to look at anything perfectly, right? Like there's always going to be someone that's judging it poorly," he said. "But from what I've seen, like what it's done for my life, what it's done for my friends' life, what it's done for my family's life, like I have no complaints about it whatsoever."


A former client and then peer counsellor, Jordan Remple, said he has never seen abuse at the centre and criticism of the program bothers him.  (CBC)

The Calgary centre claims an 80 per cent success rate, though most such programs typically report a 30 to 40 per cent rate.

Vause worked as a clinical trainee for six months in 1989 at another controversial teen rehabilitation program called Kids of Bergen County, based in Bergen County, N.J. Vause later claimed he disagreed with the abuse he saw at Kids and left because of it.

The New Jersey program was run by Miller Newton, a counsellor with a doctorate in anthropology from an alternative college, the same institution where Vause got his PhD.

Alberta sent at least 40 patients to the New Jersey centre in the late 1980s due to the lack of treatment facilities north of the border.

U.S. facility hit with lawsuit

Plagued by reports of alleged beatings and weird rituals, New Jersey authorities raided Newton's centre in 1989, finally shutting it down in 1998.

New Jersey lawyer Phil Elberg successfully sued the centre for $18.6 million Cdn in 1998 claiming malpractice on behalf of former patients.

"My argument was simply these kids didn't have the conditions he diagnosed," said Elberg.

Newton had wanted to expand his program to Alberta, but the province vetoed that plan after his centre was shut down. That's when Vause set up his own centre. He made it clear to the government it would not use the same abusive tactics.

That did not reassure Edmonton-area MLA Marie Laing, who raised the issue in the Alberta legislature in 1990 when she was the NDP human rights and women's issues critic, as well as a psychologist familiar with Newton's rehabilitation philosophy.

"Well my concern was that they would just beat up the child … I could probably say that better, but they would … they would see the child as fully responsible as a bad child that needed to be changed into a good child," Laing told The Fifth Estate recently.

"We had no proof, right? And the only thing the government would say was, 'We'll monitor the program.' But there was … there was no mechanism as to how it would be monitored."

Laing's concerns were justified, according to former patients who spoke with The Fifth Estate.

Therapy involves steps program

Like Alcoholics Anonymous, the centre's program is divided into steps. As patients get further along, they earn progressively more access to the outside world.

In the beginning, though, "newcomers" are supervised by "oldcomers" — patients further along in the program — who take them home at night.

Lunn alleged she was thrown down the stairs in an oldcomer's home and also sexually abused. When Lunn reported the abuse to the centre, she was labelled a liar, she alleged.

Former patient Rachel O'Neill alleged she was sexually assaulted by two people in a supply closet at the centre, though because it was dark, she doesn't know who her attackers were. In another incident, O'Neill alleged an oldcomer wiped her rectum and then put her fingers in O'Neill's mouth.

O'Neill alleged she fled the centre in late December 2002 in her bare feet.


Corrections and Clarifications
* The program receives $400,000 a year in provincial funding. It was originally reported that it had received $4 million in provincial funding since 2002. Feb. 13, 2009 | 10:12 p.m. ET


Copyright © CBC 2009
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Offline Ursus

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Comments #1 for "Alberta drug rehab centre abused us"
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2009, 08:42:03 PM »
Comments to the above CBC News article, Alberta drug rehab centre abused us, former teen patients allege, first to last (#s 1-25):


Bugwayji wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 8:38 PM ET
    How many times does this happen in Government or Contracted entities to the Government facilities, alot....oh, sorry back to sleep, sheep
Mountains wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 8:56 PM ET
    Violence stops here = if ur going to teach it = it will get away on u = then u have others like the police that sometimes push their luck and get away with it. = NOW THAT IS BREAKING THE LAW = the law can be GREAT TEACHERS because it starts with their TEACHINGS

    when violence stops (verbally, physically, mentally) u can go place's = if u teach it LOOK AT THE STREETS
Victor Hughes wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 8:59 PM ET
    Let us try and remember who
[or is it what??] we are dealing with!!
It reminds me of a meth detox facility in Victoria for kids 13 - 18 who were ticked off that they wouldn't be able to smoke there!! If I had a child on meth, his smoking privilege and more would be history!!
We should have a societal responsibility to care for those who CAN'T or WON'T help themselves and the answer lies in a secure facility incarceration [ No, not a prison!!] for a year where there would be no visitation save through a glass wall by phone. After a year ,the progress to sobriety would be incredible!![/list]
MANBIRDPIG wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 9:03 PM ET
    I'm watching the Fifth Estate story on AARC as I type. That place needs to be shutdown immediatley. Its beyond sick. Sure they claim to have an 85% success rate but by the looks of it half the kids who go into this program are far from being addicts and some barely even drug users. What good is curing someones habit if you take away their ability to be human at the same time.

    Shut this place down, burn it to the ground, charge the staff and sue the hell out them already.
Sean M 71 wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 9:21 PM ET
    Without Prejudice

    While it is certainly possible that abuse can occur and it is true that abuse has occurred in various kinds of treatment centres, before flying off with unsubstantiated allegations and criticism, appropriate investigations must be conducted by third party investigators.

    The very nature of a substance abuse treatment centre, and the very nature of patients suffering from substance abuse, including on-going abuse after release and memory / perception issues that such patients may face, requires that a careful step backwards be taken before passing judgement.

    Indeed these claims must be investigated because everyone, including persons who have suffered from substance abuse and / or continue to do so, deserve the same ethical treatment as do we all.

    Simply, let's wait for the facts to be revealed before jumping on the media fueled band-wagon of controversy.
momshu wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 9:22 PM ET
    Pay attention!
    Most drug sick & addicted peoples I know do not have the perseverences to bother reporting. If they get to treatment they have exhausted thier relienceinces and thier trust is hope!!

    So I ask of those who have been treated in some form of faith and they voice these concerns; society should pay attention! Tell us your stories!
rapidfire wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 9:25 PM ET
    They deny allegations? No suprise there. I love the part that says they were either lying or it was their fault.

    Very sick indeed
james1981 wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 9:30 PM ET
    Former paitents are just waiting for a class action a law suit the government is going to fold and give them our tax payers dollars

    do i here

    "show me the money"
Adam Baum wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 9:41 PM ET
    They were safer on the drugs then at that facility.
PDBadibus wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 9:43 PM ET
    Typical Alberta attitude, as far as I'm concerned.

    Oh, and that place spacholka mentioned is called prison. And more people come out of there as drug addicts than go in as drug addicts.
WayneMacIsaac wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 9:52 PM ET
    Tough shit.
MANBIRDPIG wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 9:52 PM ET
    Lets not forget the Alberta govt is just as responsible for what happened in AARC as AARC itself. They do not monitor what goes on there because they do no consider it to be a "residential treatment center". Its obsurd that this can happen in Canada.

    There needs to be an investigation that goes well beyond what happened inside AARC. The government needs to be investigate and all those who ignored the cries for help from these patients should be charged as well.

    AARC is beyond sickening.
commie_grl wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 9:56 PM ET
    hmmm... no one oversee's this operation? no gov't department? that is a scary thought...
    400k of taxpayers dollars and not one govt agency to account for it.
    nice.
WayneMacIsaac wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 9:58 PM ET
    Sorry, I meant tough poo.
leisure wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 10:00 PM ET
    It doesn't appear that Gillian Findlay was very interested in hearing from the 400 graduates of this program and their families, but that would be far less sensational and headline grabbing than the skewed journalism shown here. I guess sober adults in families that have been reunited and repaired through the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and the AARC Program wouldn't provide the same effect. AARC has never claimed to be the solution for all kids, and any families in treatment there have chosen to be there. Gillian Findlay fails to acknowledge David Suzuki's own episode of The Nature of Things, called Recovering Krystal, a program that followed a young woman and her family through the AARC program over a period of months, and into recovery. AARC and Dr. Vause can certainly handle scrutiny and responsible investigative journalism. This piece did not provide that.
Garrynec wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 10:05 PM ET
    This is outraging! At what point do addicts become second class citizens? Moreover, as Canadian citizens these kids are supposed to be protected by The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms; our Fundamental Freedoms! This is not treatment, this is brainwashing and Alberta's taxpayers are paying for it! The politicians are financially supporting a breach of these Canadians citizens Fundamental Freedoms. I'm truly baffled. This is a giant tear in the fabric we like to consider Canadian values. Anyone who enables this should be ashamed. Let's shut this place down and get these kids the help they need and deserve.
sometinclever wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 10:05 PM ET
    Some drug addicts are depraved inexorable individuals in need of extreme measures to save them from themselves and protect those close to them.
eightyfive wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 10:25 PM ET
    I'm a little bit disturbed that a place such as this exists, and is so well funded at that. I think there's still a lot that people don't know, myself included. Howver, given that the executive director openly called his former patients liars, I'm hesitant to believe the centre's 80% success rate. Could the fact that they admit users who aren't even addicts to begin with have something to do with this skewed figure?...
anonymity1 wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 10:25 PM ET
    Sobriety if any would be precarious if any when one is forced to submit.
    If someone would have tried to force me into rehab I would have rebelled only because I understand today that I made the choice to abuse alcohol and only I could come to the realization that it was my problem and I had to fix it. Besides substance addiction is only a very small percentage of the problem
    Not wanting to take responsibility for my anti social behaviour and my anger and my wanting to always to be the victim and everyone else was wrong and I was right. THAT WAS THE REAL ISSUE.
    Think about how hard it is to change yourself and then try to change someone else. Free will we all have it.
estherR wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 10:53 PM ET
    Garrynec wrote:
    Posted 2009/02/13
    at 10:05 PM ETThis is outraging! At what point do addicts become second class citizens? Moreover, as Canadian citizens these kids are supposed to be protected by The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms; our

    When they abuse drugs; their families; steal and do anything to secure money for their habit.
    When they ignore the law and hurt others.
    We have to protect ourselves and the addicted kids from themselves.
estherR wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 10:58 PM ET
    Suddenly everyone wants to believe the drug addicts over the counsellors with nothing to back up their claims other than themselves.
    Sorry, get back in treatment and clean up your act.
    Addicts will do anything for moneey for their habits
    lying comes easy; ask their families.
Islandmike wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 10:59 PM ET
    It comes down to who you can believe. A drug soaked weak willed mind that doesn't want to face reality or a group of people that care enough to set boundries and get them clean.
    You can not trust of believe anyone on drugs. I think the centre should looked at and checked for abuse but I would not take the word of a drug user until it has been investigated.
    The centre may use tough measures but those measures may be the only way to bring the person back to a real life without drugs
GhostInTheShell wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 11:06 PM ET
    I don't know much of the story I really buy.

    You *really* need to take your sources into account here.
skippi wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 11:11 PM ET
    It is really very simple. Any time you place human beings in a situation where they have NO power at all, that situation will create abuse and attract abusers. The people who created this horror should be in jail. Amateurs playing at being professionals are dangerous, dangerous people.
Robert Browne wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 11:23 PM ET
    I looks like a lot of posters have a hollywood or at least a conservative right view of drug addiction. For every street level addict breaking into cars there are ten well paid professionals with the same suppliers number on their black berries. Treatment centres are populated with nurses doctors lawyers and other professional people. Those are the clients, not the administrators.

    If you think everyone with a drug addiction is a scab covered sunken eyed predator, you've been buying into the morally weak stereotype that provides the police with their ever escalating budget.

    There's no better place for a sexual predator than a facility that houses the suspect members of society. Mental Health Centres, Recovery Houses etc.

    More drug users are what you'd consider respectable people who hide their problem well. Left untreated they will end up on the street or dead or in jail. It may be their own bad choices and mistakes that get them there, but it's public attitudes and contempt that keep them there.


Copyright © CBC 2009
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Offline Ursus

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Comments #2 for "Alberta drug rehab centre abused us"
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2009, 12:11:08 PM »
Comments to the above CBC News article, Alberta drug rehab centre abused us, former teen patients allege, #s 26-50:


seedplanter wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 11:24 PM ET
    Funny it's always females who allege abuse. Funny they suffer from depression 3 times as often as men, comit infantcide most often, throw in eating disoders and a few other emotional disorders and it can spell disaster. We as a society have gotten what we have asked for....a God damned mess. We NEED tough programs...they work. Period.
BillMcKay wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 11:33 PM ET
    What facilities do it kind of on the "tough love" philosophy. The people who go into rehab are beaten down. often victims their whole lives of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse. These facilities are indeed abusive. if they know for example you are afraid of confrontation they will be more confrontational. the idea is to get you to stand up, not be afraid. in truth what they are doing (and i apologise for the analogy, it is not intended to belittle those in these programs) is raising a hand to an already beaten dog. they know you will cower. they are seen as intelligent people providing therapy while really, its about winning a popularity contest.

    Whoever has the most sponsee's, the most clean time, etc is the winner, and must be looked up to. an abuser will deny abuse if they havent struck somebody because their definition of abuse is physical, an emotional abuser may not tell someone they are an idiot, instead they will make the other person feel small. This is the therapy in these treatment centres. I understand this having been in "the system."

    I know my talking about this has kind of jumped around a bit. not stayed on a thought clearly. its because I am passionate abou tthis though. I have seen what these "treatment centers" really do, and yes. it is abusive.

    For teens, their parents can admit them, say they are an addict. guess what. in the centers eyes, they are an addict. they may have smoked a joint one time, and a parent freaked out, but the teen is an addict. These centers freely place labels on people, etc because they can. and since its their center, if you dont like it, you can leave. its no different than a bad marriage. why do people stay in them? often because they have no other place to go
jackbrian wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 11:42 PM ET
    one complaint, 2 complaint, maybe, but when the 3 rd comes in , you better be in full gear. From what I've read, there is a problem in there.
jameshuls wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 11:46 PM ET
    Well, luckily seedplanter has figured it all out for us - hallelejah... "You gotta teach these people - 'specially them weed smokin types"

    Seriously though, do people really believe these viewpoints? "If I beat mah chile, ah cant really see how it cood really hurt him"
sheep?? wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 11:46 PM ET
    I do believe there should be some type of reporting to the Government if public funds are being used. I also believe that if phisical abuse is taking place it must be stopped at all costs including charges against the perpetrators. but as for the rest of it. WAHH.

    These kids were not pulled off the sidewalk they were all troubled teens which were committed by thier parents. All of the whiners interviewed are clean and working and in my oppinion stronger for the experience.

    Who cares if these kids are clean and productive today to spite the program or because of the program. No program in existance can cater to the needs of every individual none are perfect. If AARC can prove an 80% sucess rate and my openning conditions are met I say GO HARD.

    I have dealt with addictions intimately I know one alcoholic who was drunk 24 hous a day 7 days a week. he would drive to our house so drunk he could not speak, multiple impaired driving convictions. he quit drinking and now he will not even admit he ever drank a drop. This is called denial folks.

    These AARC patients whiners and advocates alike are statistics on the positive side and have more to show for thier lives than a grave marker. That is a winning system in need of a few adjusments is all.
kristinw wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 11:50 PM ET
    esterR wrote:

    "Suddenly everyone wants to believe the drug addicts over the counsellors with nothing to back up their claims other than themselves."

    You clearly didn't see the Fifth Estate. The investigators showed the health records of one of the women who was only a teenager when committed that clearly showed the results of blood tests done before she was admitted that showed she was not using! She was clean! She was just some teenager that experimented a few times not an addict!

    None of the people interviewed are teenagers or addicts now. They're adults with careers who are no longer afraid to turn around and point out their abusers. And the "counsellors" are all graduates of the program. None of them have any formal training in dealing with teenagers who have an addiction problem. Apperently 3 trained clinicians were hired at the beginning of setting up the place and they all quit or were fired right at the beginning.

    If this place is so great and has nothing to hide why didn't they invite the journalists in and give them a tour of their facility and present clear evidence that they had actually investigated these accusations by their former clients and found them to be baseless. They did no such thing. This place looks very suspiciously corrupt. It should be shut down until the police/rcmp/health officials do a full and thorough investigation.
Guess Who wrote: Posted 2009/02/13 at 11:51 PM ET
    Locking people up doesn't cure them...it drives them crazy, like caged chimpanzees being tortured by cruel masters.
    While you're at it, and you want to lock up addicts, why don't you lock up the smokers? Over 40,000 Canadians die every year from tobacco related illnesses...and it's legal. Why were these people confined against their will? For their own good? Then lock up the smokers too. Lock everyone up on prison planet earth.
United Hackers_Association wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 12:13 AM ET
    This is very confusing article what has the US facility to do with the canuck one.

    Also great , an excuse to close them down when people in bad times need help the most.
    Just like the star other day had article about pain killers with no proof of there stats, sounds more and more like these "reporters" are pulling crap out of there hats. Add to that the fact that one guy who was at the canuck place is like going on about how this other person is just doing it to get some money or attention.
    YA exactly , crying wolf they call it.
MAGOG2012 wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 12:22 AM ET
    Who is on the drugs here?,,and it takes this long to complain...sounds like more work for the MERCHANT LAW group..
Ubuntu wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 12:32 AM ET
    Hmmm!!! The place opened in 1992 and Good Ole Ralph started the cuts in 1993. Are the operators of this place friends of Klein???

http://www.cbc.ca/edmonton/features/socialservices/[/list]
Ubuntu wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 12:41 AM ET
    spacholka wrote: "Sure they claim to have an 85% success rate but by the looks of it half the kids who go into this program are far from being addicts and some barely even drug users."

    *************************************************************************************

    That's quite the stereotypical comment. I'm sure that you've passed people on the street that are down to their last nickel but since they actually groom themselves you probably assume that they're well off. Hence those who are REALLY in need don't get the help they need because they don't fit the visual criteria.

    Some of the heaviest drug users carry briefcases and blackberries.
estherR wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 12:44 AM ET
    Robert Browne wrote:
    Posted 2009/02/13
    at 11:23 PM ETI looks like a lot of posters have a hollywood or at least a conservative right view of drug addiction. For every street level addict breaking into cars there are ten well paid professionals with the same suppliers number on their black berries. Treatment centres are populated with nurses doctors lawyers and other professional people. Those are the clients, not the administrators.

    This is a teen center; no doctor or nurse patients. Just kids taking the wrong path and needing serious help.
HenkGal wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 1:05 AM ET
    It takes a lot of guts for these former "inmates" to tell their story. Good for them! It's too easy and too self-serving to dismiss these allegations by saying that they are liars and/or that it is their fault. This is a rather typical reaction of someone who feels threatened. This kind of "reasoning" calls for a red flag!
    So, let some independent (non-governmental) body go into the place and check it out from top to bottom. Hopefully, this would show who the liars are.

    Drug-addicted kids do exist. When, as a parent,this is one of your kids, you may do desperate things to get your kid "cleaned up" and back on track. And when you hear that this "treatment" costs $50,000 per year per kid, you are talking about kids from very well-to-do parents. So, when you are desperate enough and have money enough, a desperate parent might go along with the guy who promises to cure your child from the addiction. Stories about snake-oil salesmen come to mind.This outfit needs a very thorough independent investigation. The government owes this to the kids and also to the taxpayers of this province.
    Thanks, CBC for airing this programme.
Mortalcoil wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 2:15 AM ET
    All great men who are ahead of their time are attacked. Dr. F. Dean Vause is one of these. AARC is the best drug treatment center for adolecents in the world today. It is the future of drug and alcohol treatment. And Albertans can be proud that they have the guts to stand up to the darkness that is alcoholism and drug addiction. Hats off to (Citizen of the Year 2005)Dr. Vause, his staff, the parents, the kids, the supporters, the Alberta government and the people of Alberta. 80% success rate!!!!
    Good job! Where do I send my cheque?
Danny6characters wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 2:38 AM ET
    I'll try to post again. Typical twelve step programme. Thirteenth step invariably stalks. Surrender your will and reason to God (of your understanding of course) and you will be happy, joyous and free. A cult is a cult is a cult...
Ubuntu wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 2:49 AM ET
    So the methodology of this "program" evolved from Utah. No wonder!!!!

http://thestraights.com/reports/barbero.htm[/list]
Danny6characters wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 2:54 AM ET
    Mortalcoil: Current success rate of AA is less than 3% among the willing. Less than 1% among those court ordered. The figures you parrot likely keep these poor kids' parents hands in their pockets, no?
jdkenny wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 3:12 AM ET
    I have been reading the comments posted on this site and I am appalled at uniformed crusaders who outraged AARC exists and want to have it "burned down'. I am a father of a teenage drug addict that has seen our young boy (and our family) go to hell and back because of his addiction. We have spent countless hours with so called educated professionals who could not help our son. I would be interested in learning what ADDAC's (the "experts" in addiction) success rate. From our experience I'm guessing it's pretty poor and guess what? They recieve more than $50 million of our tax dollars. Oh, and when my son was admitted to the hospital to "treat" his "condition" he had ready access to drugs and was high every day- in the hospital! Until you understand addiction is a decease and you know and love someone who has it you cannot possibly comprehend what little help is available.

    The Fifth Estate piece interviewed I believe four people. I suspect there is more to their story than what was being said. I can also tell you first hand that AARC is nothing at all like what was being protrade in the news story.
    My son has been at AARC for almost five months and I have open communication .He reguarily sees outside medical doctors, pyscologists and any other professional healthcare provider we wish. For the record as someone who knows he son was doing far more than "experimenting", they do lie, steal and con. The charactorization of peer councilors as inexperienced could not be farther from the truth. They in fact have been the only ones who ahve been able to reach my son and show him life worth living. They can do this because they were once where he was. Not some social worker with a masters degree with absolutely no clue about the pain associated with addiction.

    To see my son today from where he was five months ago is nothing short of a miracle. He is smiling, he has gained weight, talking about going back to school and persuing a career as a writer. He is getting recovery!

    As for the guy who insinuated AA is not necessary - just tell that to the more than $30 million men and women who do.
whiteman wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 3:46 AM ET
    The LIE is, without a doubt, the most pervasive, the most common, the most successful, and the most dangerous of all the tricks in Addict's Guidebook.
    It's so good that most people unintentionally fool themselves. Even the con artists usually get suckered in by their own game.
    They start believing their own lie.
BUSH IGGY BLOOD BROTHERS 4 Torture wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 3:49 AM ET
    The alledged abuse hardly quailifies as torture.
AARCGRAD143 wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 3:58 AM ET
    Well I think Dr. Vause hit it right on the head when he said they were Liars,

    What AARC gave to me was the biggest gift of my life. I was a nothing but a liar, cheat, and thief lookiing at life in jail, infact I was denied bail three times and was in jail for 5 months awaiting a trial. For the grace of God and my mother I was sentanced to AARC. AARC took me through the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anoynomous, which is nothing more then a design for life. My opinion is that they are life skills so simple that they can better anyones life who applies them, Addict or Not. My life is good today because I use the tools given to me by AARC in my daily life. If I was sentenced to Bowden and not to AARC who knows where I'd be today.

    We seen only a tiny portion of peoples opinions on tonights show, and unfortunatly they are resentful hurting people. I was graduate #143 and I guarantee there are over 200 other Grads that went through AARC that would have more positive opinions. I have your back Vauser.

    EJ
jethro wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 4:54 AM ET
    Remember Karl Toth or the Irish Brothers? Those teen inmates weren't believed either.
A thinking man. wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 5:28 AM ET
    I have come to very, very strongly distrust the 5th Estate.

    This news show is starting to act like the Jerry Springer show. Every article, every issue that they claim to "examine" is a one sided slander fest.

    It is entirely possible that isolated abuses happened here, in fact it is more than likely in the long run that someone somewhere will be abused in these settings. Every person there is a drug addict at least in their parents' mind. I have worked with hundreds of drug addicts on the street (never in a treatment center) and most of them deny being addicts. I have worked with several who are highly intelligent and can even manage to clean out for lab tests when they need to (depending on what they use, lab work can be clear in as little as a few hours after their last use, or can be positive for months afterward).

    But to me here is the bottom line. These people claiming abuse can make their claims to the police and have their complaints investigated. If there is sufficient evidence to charge, then charges will be laid, if not, then there is reasonable doubt that the offences ever took place. It isn't perfect, but that is the system.

    In the mean time it seems to me that there are hundreds of satisfied clients and patients, and only a few who claim to have been abused. In the grand scheme of things when dealing with drug addicts that is pretty good. If anyone stays in the drug culture long enough they WILL be abused on the streets or by their dealers etc. The women will first pay for their drugs through sexual favors for their dealers and then often will end up prostituting themselves anywhere they can to pay their dealers for drugs. The men will have to turn to crime and violence to support their habits.

    I would rather take a risk that a small percentage of the drug addicts risk being abused in treatment centers and then investigate and charge offenders, than accept that every one of them will get abused living the drug lifestyle that they have chosen.
shock wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 7:11 AM ET
    Wow, okay. If this place actually has "an 80 per cent success rate"(what ever they define as a success) as they claim, than this is the absolute best recovery centre in the whole world!...hands down!
    I went through recovery myself many years ago and the many councilors I have had contact with said that the typical recovery center can expect a 2-5% "success" rate....ie. a maximum of 5% of people who go through recovery will stay clean for life.

    I would be very suspicious of this center, even if all they have done wrong is lied about "success" rates.
clearlight wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 7:40 AM ET
    This comment has been removed by the moderator.[/list]


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    Offline Ursus

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    Comments #3 for "Alberta drug rehab centre abused us"
    « Reply #6 on: September 12, 2009, 08:34:01 PM »
    Comments to the above CBC News article, Alberta drug rehab centre abused us, former teen patients allege, #s 51-75:


    clearlight wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 7:43 AM ET
      This comment has been removed by the moderator.[/list]
      CommonSense4u wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 8:12 AM ET
        Drug addicts will say anything they can in order to receive a windfall of money they don't deserve which enables them to continue using drugs and wreaking havoc on society.
      Tomgirl wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 8:20 AM ET
        What is an "alternative college"? Why on earth would people send their chilldren and their money to a centre run by someone with such questionable credentials?"Alternative" to what?
      Ken C. wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 9:15 AM ET
        What is the alternative ?
      I wonder why wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 9:19 AM ET
        Danny6characters wrote:"...Current success rate of AA is less than 3% among the willing. Less than 1% among those court ordered. The figures you parrot likely keep these poor kids' parents hands in their pockets, no?"
        ---
        I don't know where you get your figures from. Recovery centres, the majority of which use the so-called "Minnesota model" and 12 step programs, have been generally found to have a 33% success rate. No program is perfect in dealing with such a troubled population. It seems to me that your hostility ("12 step programs are a cult...") is clouding your objectivity.
      Bamboo wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 9:33 AM ET
        It seems strange when an institute such as this recieves $400,000.00 per year from the Alberta government and there is absolutely no regulatory body that the centre is reportable or accountable to. This treatment centre is allowed to operate any way it chooses without any regulated, proven or medically recognized guidelines. I also highly doubt that their treatment success rate is as high as 80% which they claim. Where are the studies, where is the proof, where is the legitimate paperwork? They are operating in a dubious manner at best.
      Bamboo wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 9:39 AM ET
        PDBadibus wrote:
        "Typical Alberta attitude, as far as I'm concerned"

        Could you please clarify what a "typical Alberta attitude" is? I would really like to be better informed, and enlightened by your reverent wisdom and knowledge.
      Grizzly1 wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 9:49 AM ET
        I will admit that I don't know a lot about this specific case. But I do know that in any process where you are trying to get people to own personal mistakes and undertake a new path in life, there are going to be deep resentments. I also know that in any paradigm where one person is given power over another there is room for what passes for "abuse" these days.
        And this is what I would like to comment on. I came from an era where it was accepted that parents had this kind of control over their children. A parent, concerned about an errant path their youngster might be on, was not only allowed but encouraged to use a "substitutionary consequence" -- often a corporeal punishment -- to try to derail what was likely to lead to a more devastating eventual consequence. In the grand picture, these efforts which sometimes did reach extremes -- classified by today's "loving" world as "abuse" -- were actually one of the most loving things a parent or guardian could do.
        Again, speaking generally, I find myself shocked at the process in our "progressive" society by which the kinder option of a effective discipline in the present (uncomfortable as it may be for BOTH parties when love is present) is classified as "abuse"; while the preferred option has become one of molly-coddling them with ineffective discipline and letting the more devastating future consequence for their choices and actions become more and more certain.
        The society obsessed with pushing "loving non-abusive" alternatives, is actually become that which they claim to abhor -- and doesn't even seem to recognize it!
        The old methods of discipling your children with love may have had a similar "80% success rate" at producing socially-effective, productive adults -- but we toss it away because of a fundamental societal confusion over what is loving effective (and not always "nice") discipline (root is "disciple), and what is actually unloving abuse. We have gleefully tossed it away for a "kinder mock-love" approach that may be said to only produce a "30-40% success rate" at producing effective self-realized adults.
        And the truly sad part, is that people will probably line up and take a number to shoot down this offered opinion as "encouraging violence and abuse" -- when the net result of their "kinder mock-love" approach has been proven time and again as having produced the most un-kind un-loving, inconsiderate, h society we have yet to see.
      gimmee-a-break wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 10:27 AM ET
        7/10 patients will relapse, 3/10 will have successful recovery after treatment in a rehabilitation facility. The current statistics. Also, the 7/10 will say anything to get what they want/need because they are not in recovery. Proof is needed before I take their claims as fact. Just talking from personal experience.
      boootzie wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 10:28 AM ET
        Grizzly-Obviously you don't know a lot about this case-the "abuse" that they are talking about is verbal, physical AND sexual. Do you really think that a "loving parent" would use sexual abuse on their child to "discipline" them? Get your facts straight before you go on a ramble.
      Bright wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 10:31 AM ET
        The Alberta gov't is willing to give $400,000 a year to this place and yet there is no ministry in the gov't that is even willing to look into the place?
        With long term abuse it's not difficult to see why their success rate is high, the director seemed like more of a "thug" than a compassionate person. His real goal is to secure more funds for his project and his wallet. A close study of his lifestyle is in order.....next show.
        He seems more suited for the pulpit, at leas there the audience would be not just young impressionable and vulnerable teens.
      im_robertb wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 10:31 AM ET
        The simple fact of the matter is that what little of its methods AARC will reveal have no validity. Their website has a test to determine if a child is an addict or not, at
      http://www.aarc.ab.ca/child_quiz.html. According to the website, if you answer yes to five or more of these questions, then "you have many of the critical symptoms of chemical dependency. You need to completely abstain from all mood-altering drugs."
      According to AARC, if you answer yes to four of these questions, "you have a problem with substance abuse. See if you can stop using any mood-altering drugs for 90 days. If you have difficulty with this, you may already be chemically dependent."
      Yes to three, they indicate, only indicates 'high risk.'

      Here are the 5 weakest items on the questionnaire.

      Do you feel you are a normal drinker/drug user?
      -The problem with this item is that most people who answer yes to it would be normal drinkers.

      Do you like to play drinking games when you go to parties?
      -The problem with this item is that it it doesn't catch those who have problems with drugs other than alcohol, and it assumes that drinking games equal drinking problem.

      Do your parents or siblings have trouble with alcohol and drugs (e.g. over-user)?
      -While this item likely correlates decently with alcohol and drug abuse, it is not evidence of an existing disorder, but, coupled with these other questions, can lead to a diagnosis of chemical dependency.

      Do you seem to fight or argue more than most kids?
      -There are many problems which can cause a 'yes' answer to this question. Oppositional Defiant Disorder, Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder and Conduct Disorder spring to mind before alcoholism.

      Have your grades dropped substantially since the start of Junior High?
      -Again, there are many other potential causes, including those mentioned under the previous item.

      I remind you that answering yes to these five items, according to AARC, indicates "you have many of the critical symptoms of chemical dependency. You need to completely abstain from all mood-altering drugs."

      Also, according to this page: http://www.aarc.ab.ca/addiction.html, I possess 10 different kinds of drug paraphenalia, including a razor blade, a safety pin, and aluminum foil.

      I shall comment on Vause's unethical discussion of his former patients in a subsequent post.[/list]
      obscure wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 11:04 AM ET
        Clearly there are several issues, (beyond the obvious fear mongering the media is largely responsible for perpetuating). The issues range from credibility (what kind of executive director of a human services organization uses mudslinging adjectives like "liars" to describe former clients as a defense against allegation?) to bureaucracies in our society with mandates that translate to "sustain the entity" first and foremost, deal with service provision secondly.
        "Success rates"? Compared to? Measured against? Funded by?
        What is most apparent in this article, in its intent, and in the responses generated is the ongoing lack of critical thinking at every level.
        It’s highly probable that those youth who are disempowered to accept a choice to enter residential treatment or suffer consequences such as withdrawal of family support are likely abused further.
        It’s hard to save your ass and your face at the same time.
        The masses never fail to entertain.
      jazzace wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 11:08 AM ET
        This really doesn't qualify as investigative journalism. AARC has been incredibly successful in turning around some of our most troubled youth. I'm certain that there may be validity in the complainants' story, particularly the potential for peer-to-peer issues, but I didn't hear any complaint that was systemic abuse. This appears to be one of those stories that takes something isolated, makes it masquerade as being bigger than it is, and makes the victim (in this case, AARC) permanently stained, rightly or wrongly. Definitely deserves a follow-up piece with some proper in-depth journalism. If the abuse is systemic, the employees need to be looked at, but the people who I speak with have nothing but positive things to say about AARC.
      Bright wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 11:12 AM ET
        Most of the "workers" are from the program, abuse gets abuse. There are legitimate rehabilitation programs. Education is likely the answer for both the users and the parents.
        To call those being abused liars without investigation is a "smoke" screen.
        This whole place screams for more scrutiny.
      RobertEmes wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 11:20 AM ET
        curious how they come up with their success rate, having known quite a few people through my youth (from oh 2000 to 2003 or so) who were forced into the program, who left and were using again as soon as they could... does aarc rely on a 'survey' or something, 6mths or a year later, asking if they've used again...? many people who are put into the program are street-involved and may prove hard to get into contact with; the rest staying with their parents still may be reluctant to admit drinking, smoking a joint or popping a pill of e at a party sometime...

        personally i briefly went to aadac, which is another program in calgary, in 2002. did nothing for me except introduce me to other kids who had access to better drugs. i was what one might consider a heavy user, anything i could get and as often as possible, from waking up basically, for about five years... i've been revived in an ambulance, suffered deliriums and amphetamine psychosis... eventually quit on my own, though i had proper motivation to finally... users inevitably have to make the decision themselves

        finally, i would respect these allegations of abuse... i know one woman quoted in the article has gone on to have a child & a career, in other words has moved on with her life in a lot of ways... remember these incidents are alleged to go back as far as seven years ago... it's not like the people quoted are fresh out of the program with a score to settle with somebody who was rude or demanded too much of them... and we're talking sexual abuse, physical abuse... this isn't people 'turning' on vause because he confronted them

        to anybody who the program has worked for (including family of heavy/problematic users), i'm happy you've been able to get sober; ultimately you did it yourselves even if aarc lent a hand...
      WhatReallyHappened wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 11:44 AM ET
        I've even heard comments of people visiting some of these centres and relatives/friends they had in there... and all their comments said the same - if anyone, even out of a joke, reported you in there (when you were drunk or incapable of making your own decisions clearly) as mentally ill or with some problem/issue relevant to what the centre is specialized in, they'd keep you in there as if you were really ill with whatever labeled with.

        At the end of the day, it's all about the bling bling...
      daleofthedale wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 11:45 AM ET
        This story has been bubbling along for years, Vause's integrity and that of AARC is marginal. Do a google search and you'll see what I mean. It took a long time for this story to come to the attention of the general public. There are programs and systems in place that can actually help these people, stop funding for AARC, parents do not allow your children to become involved not matter how desperate the situation may be.
      b.c. terry wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 11:49 AM ET
        Sue the perpetrator, not the centre, unless it can be proven, that they condoned or facilitated.
        Of course, the big money can be had from the centre.
      kristinw wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 12:33 PM ET
        A thinking man wrote:

        "But to me here is the bottom line. These people claiming abuse can make their claims to the police and have their complaints investigated. If there is sufficient evidence to charge, then charges will be laid, if not, then there is reasonable doubt that the offences ever took place."

        Not if they can't communicate with the outside world the whole time they are under treatment. If they can't report a criminal act like rape in a timely fashion and be examined by a doctor who can do a rape kit and have the police investigate quickly then the chances of the attacker being apprehended and brought to justice becomes very low. Any supervisor or administrator in a place like this has to treat every allegation as serious, call the police and investigate.

        It's one thing for a casual observer to say "oh she's probably lieing" but it's not o.k. if the person is the administrator of a facility like this that has full responsiblity for the safety of people's kids. Then they have a duty to report any criminal activity immediately and do a thorough investigation to arrive at the truth. This man clearly does not have what it takes to be holding this kind of responsibility.
      Vic1024 wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 1:02 PM ET
        I watched this episode last night, and I completely believed what those poor people went through. I was also a child who was placed in AARC and feel as though it was the worst decision that my parents were ever tricked into doing. In fact to this day they regret what they have done. Not only does AARC control the child trapped there but there family as well. Some of the things that happened to me there were illegal and immoral. I am so glad that this episode was ran, finally the truth is out. That place needs to be shut down just like KIDS was. I think all of these huge supporters of AARC are people who were unable to move on with their lives and they give way too much credit to AARC. I believe that the time I spent in AARC has no impact with my life today and in no way "saved my life". I just have to feel sorry for all of those people who still think that AARC saved them and who are such avid supporters.
      MKilla wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 1:03 PM ET
        The Fifth Estate is just another self-righteous, sensationalistic investigative reporting program. I find their stories, like this one, hold merit but are portrayed with such dichotomy they only appeal to those who use phrase's like "evil doers".

        But the slightest attempt was made in understanding the world of addiction.

        Along with the HNIC theme song, it weighs on CBC's integrity.
      Mountain Mojo wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 1:20 PM ET
        I watched the segment about this facility on the Fifth Estate last night.
        What was particularly disturbing was the brainwashing and institutionalizing techniques used by the facility. This place operates like a cult. It takes away the identity of individuals and It attempts to break down their psychological defenses and uses intimidation and humiliation to achieve compliance with their program. Also, the fact that individuals are in some cases, not there of their own free will and not allowed to leave voluntarily is a rights violation.
        The facility justifies its program by using the honourable 12 Step Program as its base philosophy. The difference is that the 12 Step Program participants are willing participants. Also, the fact that they use peer counsellors at AARC who hold power and privelege over others indicates that they have drastically strayed from the essence of the 12 Step program.
        The facility and Mr Vause are moral entrepeneurs who prey on the fears of the society that the use of drugs or alcohol in any capacity is detrimental to the life-long health and well being of people. There are very few individuals for which this applies. The majority of people are able to experiment, learn restraint, and learn to adjust their lifestyle and living standards according to other priorties. Teenagers are the ones who need to go through this process at some point either accepting or rejecting these recreations as socially acceptable.
        To categorize all drug and alcohol users as someone in need of help from a professional is labelling, stereotyping and borders on the Nazi principles of superiority used to cull and capture people into their extremist policies that are used to further their own wealth and prosperity at the expense of the vulnerable group of individuals.
        The practices of this organization are questionable at the very least. I wonder how much government money Mr Vause and his associates have managed to personally siphon off of this facility and its supporters. All under the guise of having insight to a "disease" which is of their making.
      vanislandgirl7 wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 1:27 PM ET
        Victor Hughs,
        Obviously you have never lived with anyone who has been addicted to drugs. I have. My younger brother was addicted from the time he was 12 until he was 16. Those are the formative years for adulthood. If he had been locked up in a glass room with no real human contact, he would have instantly returned to drugs when he got out.

        Kids, especially addicted kids, need to know that they have value and worth in addition to working the steps. He has been clean since he was 16 and is now a valued member of society who gives back and helps everyone else he can. Without treatment from a facility that actually cares, and without the support of his probation officer, his drug counsellor and his family, I am sure that he would have died many years ago.

        I don't think this facility actually cares, I think it is there to collect money from the government. If abuses happened, make it stop, don't blame the victims. Often times, abused kids, addicted kids are really telling the truth when it matters. Why would they lie now?
      Montag451 wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 1:56 PM ET
        Facilities like the AARC, typify the perils of private for profit health care and are what happens when you don't have properly enforced and inspected regulations. We see the same thing with senior care facilities.

        Treatment programs must be science based, must be government licensed and regulated. They have to be continuously monitored and inspected. We are treating a disease here and you don't see former cancer patients or cardiac patients performing surgery and providing treatment - at least not without a medical degree and years of training.

        Just because you are recovering addict it doesn't make you an expert of addiction recovery or treatment.

        Having a broken leg that is now healed doesn't make me an expert on the care, treatment and repair of broken limbs. I can sympathise with a patient similarly afflicted, I can certainly empathise as well - I can discuss my healing process and my routine to avoid future injury and adjustments I've made to take better care of my limbs (and injured leg) but I am in no way qualified to treat and repair a broken leg.

        We must start treating substance abuse as a legitimate medical condition and building properly funded public health facilities that are operated at the highest professional standards we expect and demand of our hospitals. Too many of our children are without the proper and safe care they need to deal with their issues and a private facility that presents a happy hunting ground for predators is not helping.


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      Offline Ursus

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      Comments #4 for "Alberta drug rehab centre abused us"
      « Reply #7 on: September 12, 2009, 08:37:58 PM »
      Comments to the above CBC News article, Alberta drug rehab centre abused us, former teen patients allege, #s 76-100:


      seedplanter wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 2:07 PM ET
        jameshuls,
        obviously you're about 22 and have no kids. You've grown up in an era where kids, especially little girls have little to no self respect or esteem. You've grown up in an era where e-mail and chat rooms are your main source of communication. You can be as nasty as you want because of the anonimity. Movies and music make a culture of violence and a girls worth is based on her sexuality. You've grown up in an era where the law makers think kids know what is right for them, attending school is an option, doing well is a personal choice....heaven forbid any of you are pushed to do well.....God almighty....what would that do to your self esteem.

        NOW your generation is going to reproduce....what in the name of God will you use as guidelines to raise your kids, what will you teach them. Where will your morals come from.

        People don't even sit together...as a family...and eat supper anymore.

        We have what our young people want....a God Damned mess.
      sdsteve01 wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 2:15 PM ET
        I was very pleased to see the Fifth Estate reporting on this treatment centre. I have been involved in teh 12 step community in Calgary for many years. I personally know several "graduates" of this centre, and some of my friends have ploaced their children in the centre. The only good thing I will say about this place is their success rate in treatment is impressive. The means however, in my opinion, do not justify the ends.
        Parents of clients are allowed in treatment planning of the clients if and only if they are heavy financial donors to the centre.
        I will not speak on any of the staff, but I have heard nothing but horror stories.
      tomass1938 wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 2:16 PM ET
        Our family was involved with AARC in its early years and it was a blessing to our situation. We have recommended the program to many and still would. With the inside knowledge of the workings of this recovery center it is obvious to us that the 5th Estate has done a shoddy and incomplete investigation and they have failed to explain many facets of this family oriented program. Keep up the good work AARC!! You have far more supporters in the know...than those who choose to believe and comment when they do not have the truthful facts.
      The Guido wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 2:20 PM ET
        Mountain Mojo:
        I agree to a point...if I didn't meet and know so many councellors, social workers and shrinks that are also very messed up, then I think I'd agree with you 100%.
        Problem here is, this country hates to see anything privately run....."non-union" scares the crap out of people. Well, I'm non-union and self employed. I see many people on a daily basis. I can tell you , it takes one person to scream wolf....then everyone is ready to jump on the band wagon. If they have no respect for a councillor, "then they would not have any respect for anyone right"?
        The altitude on the mountain ,can't be very good for you!
      AARC Supporter wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 2:44 PM ET
        I am deeply saddened by the fact that so many people of the general public take a news story for the sensational, superficial reporting that they are. No one will understand what AARC is or what living with a drug addict really is unless you have experienced it first hand. In my opinion AARC has saved my brothers life. He would be lying in a grave right now without it. It is what has put my family back together. Some of the allegations that were made in this piece were nothing close to my experiences and in some cases were the exact opposite. I do not deny that perhaps this young girl was abused and unfortunately abuse such as that lies in all institutional systems. If that is indeed the case it needs to be investigated and new systems should be implemented to prevent that in the future. However, from first hand experience I can say that the homes were nothing but respectful and wonderful memories that taught these addicts how to become a family again and have conversation and experiences not plagued with drugs.

        I could go on, but I will just leave you with this thought. I beg the members of the community to utilize their common sense when reading this story. It is a few addicts opinion against many addicts, families, and others. These programs did not have professionals speak on behalf of the program and this program saves lives. It was an incredibly negatively biased opinion. Why were there no opinion of the many graduates who have had success and would like to offer their opinion. Unfortunately, many addicts want a comfortable way to get clean but that is just not possible. An addict when they are full on in the disease cannot be trusted and should not be allowed to associate with other people who are going to remain sick in those awful environments.

        If the means don't justify the ends then you are supporting letting the 400 graduates who have been to AARC dig their own graves.
      Patty Cake wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 2:52 PM ET
        My grandson is a recovering addict. His rehabilitation was in a wonderful warm setting at a private centre that sounds completely opposite of AARC. The centre did use the 12 step approach but instead of the army method of destroying who you are before building you back up in the ways they would like, this treatment centre used all the strengths of the addict to turn weaknesses around. It was a wonderful centre, I visited my grandson there many times. He was never abused. He was never held down, locked up. He was never refused opportunities to communicate with his family. They had certified drug counsellors as well as volunteers to come in tell their stories and to answer questions. They had skills testing, career counselling and work opportunties.

        And the very best part? It worked. My grandson re-entered society in a positive and prepared frame of mind. He has been clean since, still attends AA to tell his story of positivity and helps those who need it.

        I'm glad our family never heard of AARC when we were figuring out what to do.
      unreal2 wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 3:29 PM ET
        I am glad the abuse these children have endured at this center is finally out there for all to see.

        How can one "treat" people without experienced staff on hand? Why are these kids not allowed contact with their families? Why are they not going to school? Why are they not allowed to see calendars or read the backs of cereal boxes?

        I'm sorry, but this program is more of a cult then anything else from what I've seen and heard about the place. Total and complete brainwashing. You cannot tell me that they have such a high success rate. NO WAY.

        AARC isn't about treating kids, it's about MONEY. Watching Vause sit there and claim that child was a liar, when there was MEDICAL EVIDENCE disputing what he was saying was just unreal. The guy is a total snake.

        I wish the show was longer, so more former clients could be interviewed, as well as parents who were denied contact with their children. This is just the tip of the iceberg people.

        Is it common knowledge that clients who don't toe the line when they get out get harassed and stalked by 'old timers'? How about numerous websites out there that repeatedly slam on the families that aren't supporters, including writing REAL names of former clients all over the wonderful www?

        Is this how a treatment center is supposed to be run? Should these people be threatening and stalking former clients because they want to put AARC behind them and live their lives as normally as possible after being brainwashed in that place? Is it not an individual decision as to whether or not they want to continue with AARC when they get out? If so, why are they not allowed to live their lives without harassment or fear?

        I have not been involved with AARC at all, I just know people who have been, and that center is an absolute disgrace, as are the host homes.

        This needs to be investigated more, Child Welfare should have free access to the center and be able to speak to whomever they want, not hand picked clients that are just going to 'rah rah rah' the center.

        If this was a legitimate treatment facility, why is Vause being so secretive? Why is he not allowing interviews? Why the closed door, hush hush policy?

        People need to stand up and take notice. This place violates even the most basic of human rights and needs to be shut down. I don't care what any of the AARC people say, or their supporters, knowing what has gone on in that place from the people I know who have been there, it's truly sickening.

        SHUT THE PLACE DOWN.
      TDenton wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 4:17 PM ET
        Several years ago a friend of mine was caught smoking a joint by her mother, and was sent to a "teen drug rehabilitation" centre for a month of "intensive" therapy. This basically involved being locked in a small room all day with nothing to do, and the therapy was little more than being berated for being an addict (which she was NOT).

        The worst though seemed to be the type of discipline they had there which would be more appropriate for a prison or secure hospital. She was not sexually abused, but she told me that if she were depressed or threatened self-harm (which is natural given the situation) they would remove her clothing as punishment, which she could earn back piece by piece with good behaviour. As a result, she said she spent about half the time in her room completely naked, sometimes while restrained, which is unacceptable given her age and the fact that any staff (male or female) walking by her room could easily see her.

        She won't touch pot anymore, so I guess in that sense the program worked, but at what cost? She has extremely poor self esteem and body image because of it.
      PeterMcCartney wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 4:56 PM ET
        My brother went through aarc and is now over 2 years sober. What people dont realize is that if aarc didnt keep the patients under watch, they would run. My brother ran from the center twice while he was in treatment. It wasnt because he was being abused or because he didnt think he had a problem, it was because it was easier to go back to drugs and being sober was too painful for the moment. The first time he relapsed. The second time he made it down the road, and came back.

        No, I do not blindly support AARC. I am sure that when you have 18 year olds looking after other 18 year olds there is many opportunities for abuse. Thats really unfortunate and if it happens the oldcomers should be charged. But you know when i look at the amount of good this organization does, the amount of families that have been pieced back together and the amount of lives it has touched... (one of them being my own) I know that it is in the right.

        Also come on the Fifth Estate show had 3 grads who graduated 10+ years ago and a girl who ran away from the place, none of them sober. How is that credible?
      Keiffer N Calgary wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 5:01 PM ET
        You do drugs, bad things seem to happen to you. No ones fault but your own. Stop complaining that you don't like the 'treatment'.
      Danny6characters wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 5:04 PM ET
        Dean Vause is simply a modern day Bill Wilson. The latter a co-founder and revered spiritual leader of AA worldwide was equally depraved and loathesome. The organization had to surround him by by a tight-knit group known as the Founders Watch. Why? Bill Wilson was a power hungry sex maniac whose real exploits continue to this day be hidden away in the AA archives in NY. And these archive are more difficult to access than the deepest darkest secrets of the Vatican!
      Concerned77 wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 5:17 PM ET
        I watched the program and have read many of the posts on this site and find that many are quick to judge and don't see what concerns me most about the recent documentary. The Fifth Estate depicted four graduates of AARC who had a potentially bad experience, yet failed to explore the other perspective. After reviewing the AARC website, there are approximatley 400 graduates so what about the other 396, what view do they have.

        Fifth Estate is based on creating controversy not on credible journalism. The first rule of proper journalism is objectivity which I believe they failed to present in this review. If there are cases of abuse they should be reviewed and proper checks need to be put in place. However, I am concerned with the fact that it has taken a long period of time for these issues to brought to light.

        I would like to see what the experience is of other indivduals that have gone through before I pass judgement on the place. I live in Calgary have seen many articles and events about AARC and all have appeared to be positive. That is where I find my concern, is that Fifth Estate choose a select group of kids and focused on the experience they have had, what about the others.

        Last, for those that would rather send the kids to the psych ward of hospitals or lock them up what is the success rate of those places. If AARC does truly help drug and alcohol addicted teens through the use of tough love then what is wrong with that. For those that say we need to find a nice and easy way to deal with addiction, I would like to hear that after your house has been robbed or you have had your money stolen for drugs. Many people have an opinion on here, yet I believe when asked what they would be willing to do to help the response would be nothing. Would you donate your money or your time, in fact how many are willing to help the street kid when they ask for money. Not many, would be the answer I expect. I find it very hypocritical that so many people want to shut this place down without knowing all of the facts first. I may not have the popular opinion but CBC decided the present one side of the story, lets see if they are will to present the other side. I would expect that they are not willing, because as we all know good heart warming stories are not considered newsworthy. Who would want to present an hour long report on successful drug addicts or alcoholics.

        Just one persons opinion.
      PeterMcCartney wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 5:26 PM ET
        Also, If anyone has any questions as to what happens at this facility and would like to clarify... im on facebook send me a PM my callsign is my first and last name. I do not blindly support AARC and im sure that abuses have unfortunately occured in the 15ish years it has ran. But it is a good program and the only one that works. Without it, my family would still be in chaos, and dont say im brainwashed because I am not the type of person who doesn't question things im told.
      Summer of 1997 wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 6:33 PM ET
        I listened to this documentary last night on the Fifth Estate. This center is way too hard on the hurting, troubled teens who are living in it. Yes, I know that a lot of those teens probably lie a lot to stay out of trouble, and that should be taken into account and delbt with in a non violent, non hurtful, but a firm, no-nonsense manner, but it is not okay to continually call them liars or to blaim them for abuse that is inflicted upon them at the center by other people. It is also not okay to hold ANYBODY against their will if they give no indication that they are doing bad things, such as doing drugs, drinking, or other crimes. And it is not okay to abuse teens the way they've been doing, especially the physical and sexual abuse. That's totally unacceptable. I wouldn't be surprised if the Alberta government finds out about how they've been treating the teens after this documentary's been broadcasted on public television and puts strict rules on this center. It's great that their success rate is so high, but the ways they make the kids get clean are not okay--at least, the violent and hurtful ways are not. Yes, these teens need to have someone break through their hard wall of mistrust and anger and need to get them to face their situation head on, and yes, that will be painful. But they do not need to call these teens liars to their face and humiliate them. I've been through counseling before, and it is hard work and many tissues are in order to clean the tearful faces of the counselor's clients when they're having an intense session. But counselors also need to avoid accusational, hurtful tactics when dealing with a fragile client. It's great that the mistreatment of so many fragile teens has been brought to the public's attention. Hopefully it will be stopped and more respectful ways will be introduced to guide these teens down the path toward recovery.
      Susiegirl wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 7:09 PM ET
        Our family attended AARC 12 years ago. This was the only treatment center that helped us properly diagnose our son as an alcoholic and provide long term treatment for not only the alcoholic but the entire family as well. I am not blind to the fact that treatment can be harsh but our only other option was death or jail it he continued his drinking and criminal activities. I feel for the clients that claim abuse as this is a real possibility given the type of people that are in treatment. I know that our home provided a safe and loving atmosphere for clients to stay and heal in, and from the other mothers I healed with, I know that there homes were just as caring. We all wanted what was best for these children to become whole again.
        No one should judge what AARC is about until they have lived with an out-of-control teenager and gone through the program. Their rules make alot more sense when you are living the program and seeing the positive effects of it unfold.
        Do not take away the only hope that AARC provides unless you can provide a better alternative. I know it saved our family.
      Edwin Elbert wrote: Posted 2009/02/14 at 7:12 PM ET
        It is wise to question intensively how treatment programs are managed. Private enterprise by it's very nature will prey upon the emotions of desperate family members who are watching their loved ones self destruct in order to make money for it's shareholders. Unfortunately it's not as simple as just paying enough money and letting someone else set people straight. The end results don't always justify the means and there are many people who have an axe to grind and who delight in playing god. Drunk on power? The use of police to use fear intimidation and violence to try to control drug abuse and the level of public support for them to do so. The police have a place however to ask them to behave as mental health workers is akin to using a hammer to drive in a screw. Not to many police depts will cut their budgets to make room for 12 step based treatment programs.

        The government wants numbers. Send ten active addict/alcoholics in, send ten sober ones out and not have them return and look like heroes in the process to get elected. Tough love, jails, more police, all feel good and get votes in the "get tough on crime" voter manipulation scheme when election and budget time come around however this too does nothing to actually make treatment available. As well governments are political and any treatment center needs to be completely free of political interference.

        12 step programs do work. Treatment centers do need to have strict rules of behaviour, which include no personal contact with family members, as they are usually part of the problem (they generally refuse to change behaviour, and/or remain sober themselves), and limited supervised co ed activities as well as the need to, when the need arises to poke their patients in the eye. At the same time they can't make up rules as they go along. This where problems arise. Let the professionals in the practice of psychology and spirituality treat the patients.

        Recovering addict/alcoholics generally don't make very good counselors however they are the key to helping each other stay clean/sober one more day. Recovery is a process otherwise we could all be lobotomized at birth and be done with life.
      AARCGRAD106 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 12:23 AM ET
        What AARC gave to me was the biggest gift of my life. I was a straight Ghetto Punk lookiing at life in jail, AARC took me through the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anoynomous, which is nothing more then a design for life. My opinion is that they are life skills so simple that they can better anyones life who applies them, Addict or Not. My life is good today because I use the tools given to me by AARC in my daily life and not to mention some help from my higher power. I still have problems today, but they are easier to deal with. If I was sentenced to Bowden and not to AARC who knows where I'd be today. But you get out of it what you put into it and to each there own. All I know is I'm Grateful for AARC, AARC didn't get me here, it just gave me the tools to get here. I had to use them.

        I don't blindly support AARC, I know it had it's faults. Nothing is perfect. I do know that AARC changed my life for the better, and I still draw from the life skills I learned there ten years ago. When a reporter is irresponsible enough to interview a minor with out the consent or knowledge of the parent, and provide alcohol to an alcoholic, you have to question their motives. I agree that sensationalism sells and that is probably the motivation behind this reporter. Here's hoping that bad press is better than no press.

        Sure everyone has likes, dislikes and everyone has the right to feel how they feel. I may not have 100% like's but It doesnt change the fact that Dr Vause has always stood by me. It didnt seem to matter if I was sober or not sober or what kind of stuggle I had Dr Vause is always there for me and he is always on my side and looking out for my best interest!! It may be true, It may not be true. I don't know beacuse there is no proof but what I do have proof of is Dr Vause showing up for me, Time after Time. My Loyalty is to Dr Vause and It always will be, he has always stood right beside me and I will do the same for him. I trust him with my life and anyone close to me, I trust every word he says to me without a doubt my loyalty is to him 100 % This page is for people to show support, send some love AARC and Dr. V's way and let him know you are by his side... it is not for negitvity.
      AARCGRAD106 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 12:28 AM ET
        Grad Facebook post cont... 130 MEMBERS of AARC GRAD SUPPORTERS!!!!

        I just finished watching the show.... honestly i was very digusted i am nothing but grateful for what aarc has done for me and i never experienced anything but support... today i have a family and well be six years sober i wish they would have taken the time to listen to the positives of aarc... no one even knows if what they said was honest... the one girl didn't even finish the treatment process.....

        I was saddened to watch the portrayal of AARC tonight on the Fifth Estate. I know not everything about AARC is perfect, but when you are dealing with teenage addiction it's going to get messy. My brother was alive for 7 amazing years because of that place and because of Dr. Vause. When Lawren died that man and that place held me up so that I was able to survive. Not only does AARC save kids it saves their families. When we went in my family was truly broken, when we left we were still a little warped but at least we were whole. I'm sorry that there are people out there who's experience was so different from mine. I truly wish that everyone who walks out of AARC's doors could feel the gratitude that I feel towards that place and towards that man.
        Blessings, Morgan

        As a graduate parent of AARC and someone who lost there child to this disease, I truly believe until you've been there you'll never know. Standing on the outside looking in its so easy to judge, for those of us who have been there but for the grace of AARC go I. If it were'nt for AARC I do not even want to think about where I would be. I do and always will believe in and support Dr Dean Vause.

        I was saddened by the show's negative portayal of AARC and what it stands for. I know how destoyed my daughter and I were when we first came to AARC and as a recent garduate I am incredibly grateful for my life today. Let's stay strong and united

        The girl that they talk about in this program stayed at my house many times when she was in treatment. From what I remember, she was a complete pathological liar and a complete weirdo. Sorry but it's true. How dare they make a show based on a judgment from a lost child and instead of making a strong case and talking to numerous people to make a judgment, they do this.
        What a joke.
        What a complete slap in the face.
      Danny6characters wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 12:30 AM ET
        Take a close look at the twelve steps. Primes the new comer for the final step, yum... Spiritual foreplay, pray, surrender your intellect and then spread your ecstasy... AA nonsense.
      Danny6characters wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 12:39 AM ET
        AARCGRAD106: Take this drivel back to its source... Mr. Vause?
      Danny6characters wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 1:01 AM ET
        Graduates? No reputable 12 step programme will even touch that word. Graduating from what? Guess having paid for this nonsense your parents need some certificate (more at receipt) to show the tax man. Otherwise, please explain graduation?
      AARCGRAD106 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 1:28 AM ET
        More comments from our facebook page AARC & THE FIFTH ESTATE, WE GRADS STAND BY AARC AND DR. VAUSE!!!! In 2 days we have 130 MEMBERS all grads who support AARC!!!

        Yea that's pretty dumb you would be lying to yourself if you were a grad and had doc as a clinical that guys pretty amazing I can't believe a tv show broadcasted about AARC would be discriminated instead of praised its hard to believe people could actually think that.. Oh well all of us know the truth really that's all that matters I know it saved my life from the hell it was before it has brought many good things back into my life without a doubt and for that I'm forever grateful.Your the man Doc!!!

        Shifty journalism at its best. Documentary's are bias and this one intended to show exactly what it did in order to present the bias image that they portrayed.
        We all know that for every 1 person out there like the 4 who were on this show, there's another 15-20 who feel the opposite.
        Honestly, I feel sad for them. There's a human quality in any organization. I have no idea what happened to them or if it did.... either way, it's really not my place to decide or debate. I just feel bad that they never experienced what hundreds, almost thousands (when including the many family memebers), were fortunate enough to experience. When I see things like this, I become even more grateful for the fact that my family and I were able to take something positive and run with it.

        I was saddened by the show's negative portayal of AARC and what it stands for. I know how destoyed my daughter and I were when we first came to AARC and as a recent garduate I am incredibly grateful for my life today. Let's stay strong and united
      Danny6characters wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 1:29 AM ET
        For the sake of recovery, please post. No reputable 12 step programme will even suggest graduation. Vause, by allowing same, displays the worst kind of negligence... But then, he proudly displays a phony doctorate to draw the coin. Shame.
      AARCGRAD106 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 1:39 AM ET
        More posts from aour facebook group AARC & THE FIFTH ESTATE, WE GRADS STAND BY AARC AND DR. VAUSE!!!! Which has 130 MEMBERS of AARC grads in 2 days whohave all went through beginning to end!!! Why did they not hear our story!!! 130 positive amazing things to say about AARC!!!And they chose the 3 that dont feel the same way we do!!!

        You know what you emotionally inept, and spiritually challenged people. Im sick and tired of you always ripping on the one place that has been giving to us that helps save so many kids. If you sit here and focus on all the negative things that happen in life thats all you will ever see. If you are going to take an honest look at things why dont you look at the good and the bad. You cant look at half the story, you must look at the whole story to find the truth.

        If you only talk to the people that had a few bad experiances, and they only voice their negative thoughts and opinions, how are you supposed to see the good.

        AARC changed my life, and the people and staff there saved my life. It showed me a way to deal with my problems with out masking them through drugs and alcohol. They opened the door to AA and in turn AA has given me the tools i need to live a normal, healthy, productive life. You dont have to agree with they way they get kids to see the distruction in their lives. We as alcoholics and addicits have one thing in common that not many "Doctors" have in common. We have all been there, and come out the other side. The best teacher is those who have done it before. The people they have working there are people like any other, only they offer the kids in there a glimps at hope, the kids who have no where else to look for a strength, for a mentor, a trusting peer, an equal...Dr. Vause has put those people in front of their faces everyday, so that we can see the strength they have from being on the other side. The inner peace they have from knowing what the problem is and working the solution everyday. The happiness they have obtained from being a better person, for forgiving themselves and seeking the forgivness of those they have harmed. Can you not see that the only thing you people are doing is condemming a place because of your fear. Fear of the unknowen scares everyone. AARC closes their doors to the news and media and from everyday spectators because its an invasion of OUR privacy.
      AARC Grad wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 2:53 AM ET
        Before I went into AARC I had been to every institution possible and nothing helped. I didn't want to listen to anyone who didn't understand and so what if they have schooling i didn't care if they had a degree they have never been through what i went through. So when I went into aarc I fought at first because i wanted to use, then I listened unforced and they really understood me and they had been where i had been and knew me better than I knew myself thats what made me listen and gave me hope because if they got through it then i could have right. the peer counselors get it in a way no one else could which is why i listened.Then I became willing to fight for my life back. We were never called vulgar names or had to be watched in the shower or bathroom and we didn't have to get our food cut up for us either. And by the way when i was in there i was a liar. Dr. Vause is the most amazing man i have ever met he dedicated his entire life to this program and is not money hungry its not his fault people donate money to this amazing program because they believe in it. Its a disease and people relapse they are given all the tools to stay sober and are given help after treatment if needed so if they relapse thats all on them. Before treatment the parents know exactly what there getting into and have a choice to put there kids in they are not forced.


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      Offline Ursus

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      Comments #5 for "Alberta drug rehab centre abused us"
      « Reply #8 on: September 13, 2009, 10:07:02 AM »
      Comments to the above CBC News article, Alberta drug rehab centre abused us, former teen patients allege, #s 101-125:


      AARCGRAD143 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 4:12 AM ET
        I was reading through the the comments and it's still full of so many unbelievers. I guess unless you've actually been touched by alcoholisim by somone they love or lost someone to it, then it's pretty easy not to understand it. AARC is a last resort for so many parents, and it's still running strong because it works. Some of the success is Grads relapsing and basicly resarching the addiction again, but most come back because it works and they know it does. But the sad truth is some don't come back, I've had two people from my group die because of Alcoholism and I know that can easily be me. Every one else in my group of 30 is still sober today and I went through almost 10 years ago.

        I also wanted to comment on the Money aspect of things. My family couldn't afford AARC but they made things work because of all the support. If people actually looked into the costs and budgets of running a centre they would see it's not cheap. Dr. Dean vause is one of the most unselfish man I've met.

        AARC won't ever shut down, it's a place of miracles and I'm just one.
      Psy From Fornits wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 10:22 AM ET
        "I was reading through the the comments and it's still full of so many unbelievers."

        So you have your own religion now, do you?
      laura2032 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 11:18 AM ET
        Believe what cbc said, or don't. The bottom line is people believe what they see on tv, get all worked up, type "burn the place down" in big capital letters, then next week the will tell you that 'arc' is spelt with only one 'a' and look at you like you're stupid. People will have forgotten, while AARC continues to save lives.
      Psy From Fornits wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 11:24 AM ET
        "You do drugs, bad things seem to happen to you. No ones fault but your own. Stop complaining that you don't like the 'treatment'."

        So essentially what your saying is that if you are on drugs and I punch you in the face without provocation, it is somehow entirely your fault. Makes sense!
      laura2032 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 11:42 AM ET
        "So essentially what your saying is that if you are on drugs and I punch you in the face without provocation, it is somehow entirely your fault. Makes sense!"

        No, what he is saying is it's quite common that people who use drugs at the level to require treatment, put them selves in unsafe situations in order to use and get drugs.
      Vain Zero wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 11:54 AM ET
        AARC Grad wrote:
        Posted 2009/02/15
        at 2:53 AM ETBefore I went into AARC I had been to every institution possible and nothing helped. I didn't want to listen to anyone who didn't understand and so what if they have schooling i didn't care if they had a degree they have never been through what i went through. So when I went into aarc I fought at first because i wanted to use, then I listened unforced and they really understood me and they had been where i had been and knew me better than I knew myself thats what made me listen and gave me hope because if they got through it then i could have right
        -----------------

        Are you sure you didnt simply learn like every electro shock monkey that the round button gives food and the square button shocks the dirt right out of you?

        Seriously: this is a portion of a cult with a delusional belief, using this 'center' as a guise to completely brainwash people who may or may not have addictions. Shut it down.
      Vain Zero wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 11:55 AM ET
        eightyfive wrote:
        Posted 2009/02/13
        at 10:25 PM ETI'm a little bit disturbed that a place such as this exists, and is so well funded at that. I think there's still a lot that people don't know, myself included. Howver, given that the executive director openly called his former patients liars, I'm hesitant to believe the centre's 80% success rate. Could the fact that they admit users who aren't even addicts to begin with have something to do with this skewed figure?...
        -------------
        Seriously, depending on the religious delusions of the parent, taking an aspirin for menstrual cramping could be 'pill popping'. Shut this place down.
      Psy From Fornits wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 12:02 PM ET
        "No, what he is saying is it's quite common that people who use drugs at the level to require treatment, put them selves in unsafe situations in order to use and get drugs."

        He said don't complain about the "treatment". It seemed awfully like he was implying that because people use drugs, they deserve whatever treatment they get, however abusive. It seems to imply that Rachael somehow deserved to be raped in that storage room.

        So she had "drug induced psychosis" which is basically the medical term for "tripping", a temporary condition. She was not an addict by the evaluation of an independent party... Are you saying that anybody who has ever used drugs somehow deserves these things?

        It's absolutely stunning that there are people around who believe such things.
      GradFamily278 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 12:02 PM ET
        Our family went through the AARC program four years ago. The negative portrayal of AARC by the Fifth Estate is NOTwhat we exeperienced. Our unsuccessful search for help for us and our drug addicted son had left us at a level of despair and pain, that one cannot relate to unless you have walked this walk. Today our family is doing better then we ever could have dreamt possible. We are forever grateful to Dr. Vause, his amazing staff and AARC donors/supporters.
      Psy From Fornits wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 12:10 PM ET
        AARCGRAD106 Wrote:

        "My Loyalty is to Dr Vause and It always will be, he has always stood right beside me and I will do the same for him. I trust him with my life and anyone close to me, I trust every word he says to me without a doubt my loyalty is to him 100 %"

        Phil Elberg mentioned something about this in his interview.
      rustyban wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 12:38 PM ET
        It obviously worked for many drug and alcohol abusing teens. Unfortuanetly, some fell through the cracks. I certainly don't agree with the abuse as stated by some of these individuals, but one needs to be cogniscent of what is considered "tough action, discipline, hard work" and what is progressing to abuse. This can be walking a very fine line. These young troubled teens need strong discipline, direction and leadership. They certainly do not need someone to coddle them, tell them all the things "they haven't heard before" about the ill effects of drugs and alcohol, etc. They need authority. These are teenagers, who are high and drunk. Do you think they listen to rationale conversation and self-realization of their problems? If they did, they wouldn't be addicts. It is quite obvious that the other programs out their don't work, so, in hindsight, why is this select program succeeding?
      fixer1 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 12:41 PM ET
        The treatment of addicts can not be one where compassion and gentle urging are the way to a cure. Lets face it addicts will do anything to get their next fix. Murder is not something that is out of the question, it is only a thing that the addict would call circumstance. I do not know how many people here have had an addiction to anything. Even tobacco, can make people do some really dumb things just to get that next fix. I have seen teenagers do armed robbery to get cigarettes from a store, and are people going to tell me that tobacco is victimless? When ones urges take over from rational thinking then that person is an addict. No matter what the substance he is abusing is. Even things that are not substance abuse can have the same effect. I have seen people actually go into a funk and an almost withdrawal, just because they can not get onto certain internet sites. Some have stoolen coputers from others just to be able to continue. That also is an addiction. Lets face it, we all must have in our lives seen many cases where people have done really dumb things just to get something we are craving for.

        There are no set and quick fixes for this kind of thing, and rational thinking yes must go out the door. The suspension of the persons rights and freedoms must be addressed in the best interests of the person in the end. So just where do we draw the line. I guess it must depend on how far the addiction has pushed the victim in each case. If it has taken them to the point of armed robberies and beatings just to get money, then it will take treatments that are even more severe to get these people back to normal. If and when these people see that this is just treatment and that if they play along they can trick the counsellors into releasing them to only go right back to their habit. So the next time in rehab they will need even more servere treatments and much longer times in mandatory treatment facilities. I guess I have to really just say to all those who think this is so bad, to let the facilities know where you live and they will drop off all those hardcore non-treatables in your neighbourhood, and we will then see what you position is when the addicts mug your school kids for their lunch money and leave the needles in your lane ways etc. Not to mantion the prostitiution and rapes that will soon be there for all of you to sort out in your squeaky clean methods. Maybe a good finger pointing and a mean voice will do the trick, but I think not.
      rustyban wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 12:57 PM ET
        Fixer1, Well said. I must agree
      Psy From Fornits wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 1:14 PM ET
        Fixer. Your entire arguments presumes they are "addicts". Rachael is one case in which she was not an addict and yet was admitted to the program with a "level 3" diagnosis (by the program) of addiction.

        Phil Elberg treated the KIDS of Bergen County cases like malpractice cases for this exact reason.

        And if you want to get into a discussion over whether or not substances truly make people powerless, I suggest you read some Stanton Peele:

      http://www.peele.net/lib/diseasing3.html

      If substances made people powerless, we'd have to hold them innocent for any actions committed under the influence. If that were true, I might as well down a bottle of vodka and run over a whole bunch of people I don't like. Drugs don't make people commit crimes. People commit crimes. "Drugs made me do it" is an excuse for those looking for a way to avoid facing the guilt for past actions. It's a cop out, and an excuse for tyrants to take away the liberty of others.

      If people commit crimes, throw them in jail, but there is no sense taking away the liberty of those who can and do drink and use drugs responsibly (and no, I do not use drugs).[/list]
      Psy From Fornits wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 1:19 PM ET
        "The suspension of the persons rights and freedoms must be addressed in the best interests of the person in the end."

        The ends justify the means, right? Your believe substances take away people's power to the point where they cannot control themselves, thus imprisoning them and brainwashing them is justified since somehow it's giving them back their liberty. That entire concept rests on powerlessness. I hate to tell ya, buddy, but it's not based in Science.

        Take a look at Stanton Peele's research on the subject. You might change your mind as to whether a person is truly powerless or not:

      http://www.peele.net/lib/diseasing3.html[/list]
      AARC Survivor wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 1:21 PM ET
        I completed the AARC program about 10 years ago.

        I spent the next three years feeling alienated from my peers, unable to participate in their social environment because I believed that as Dean Vause put it "If you hang around with the coconuts you will become a coconut". I was completely unbalanced and self absorbed. I spent most of my time analysing myself and picking myself apart, suffering from self inflicted guilt over the smallest detail of something I could have done better.

        These were the tools that I learned at AARC.

        About five years ago I began to question my own actions toward other graduates that had returned to drinking. I had, with other graduates some of which were at the time staff at AARC, gone to one girls house to tell her off for "relapsing". God do I ever feel like an ass about that. But this is the sort of behaviour promoted by AARC. Tough love, throw it in their face, raise the bottom, If they are drinking do not support them in any way, they need to hit bottom.

        WOW.

        So it was pretty scary to drink again, but by the time I did I had a close group of friends not involved with AARC, and I had thought alot about my previous "using".

        I remember my "assessment" my behaviour was off the charts. My family was falling apart, my parents would permanently split in AARC, and I was in the depth of a teenage rebellion that was no doubt detrimental to my health and safety. Intervention at this time seemed the obvious solution, and if i didn't know what actually happened at AARC I have to say that placed in a similar situation I might have put my future children in AARC.

        I think my parents feel pretty bad about putting me in there. They have said that they don't put it in the brochure that they are going to make you admit that you are an alcoholic.

        The other thing I remember about the "assessment is that my "using" was a level 2 out of 4. I'm pretty sure that their not supposed to admit you if you are not a level 3.

        The point of the story is that I Drink now. I have for about 7 years. Within those 7 years I also completed a University degree, and EMR training. I have a job, a dog, good friends, and good relationships with my family and a fiancé. I'm Happy. I love life.

        I still deal with the negative patterns of thinking that AARC trained or brainwashed me into. I feel very bad for the graduates who are still blinded to the truth.

        I Hope my story helps. I would not recommend AARC to anyone
      Edwin Elbert wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 1:34 PM ET
        There WAS a 12 step based treatment center in Cornwall Ontario which was run through a Catholic church prior to the Mike Harris days. He cut the funding. The facility is now closed. The cost was approximately $3000.00 for the 36 day program and was paid by OHIP. Our public health insurance plan. It was the best 3000.00 the province ever spent. and I've paid it back in spades.

        This idea of not covering treatment with public money is awful. It opens the door to snake oil salesman who profit from the misery of families of addict/alcoholics or with people who have an axe to grind and a political and religious agenda. One misery feeding off another. That is addiction.

        The 12 steps are not about surrendering intellectualism or becoming a Jesus freak praying to some Santa Clause like god from a book of fairy tales. They are just suggestions and people can choose to follow them or not. I ask myself "Would I like to remain sober today? Okay, yes. I'll follow these helpful suggestions provided by other people with a similar desire to my own." It's simple really. There is so much to do in this life. Family, art, literature, music. Instead we provide the police tasers to zap our family members and citizens.

        I haven't seen this particular Fifth Estate edition and questioning authority and critical analysis is necessary, however sadly lacking. The human receiver of the news story can choose to provide their own world view, research, analysis or what have you to determine what their own truth may be. Journalism by it's nature will find the most captivating story to sell audiences to advertisers. Addicts recovering one day at a time is not all that exciting. It falls under the boring human interest category, therefore the viewing audience will switch channels for a better stimulus package.

        Truth is very fluid and not a static quantifiable entity. I saw it on TV it must be true! Thought can be challenging so we allow others to do it for us.

        Grant me the serenity....
      Jim Poushinsky wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 1:48 PM ET
        A treatment facility that is truly helpful would describe it's program as being for "youths with the greatest need", not for "the worst of the worst"!

        With such disrespect and contempt for those entering AARC from the very beginning, it's no wonder that sexual and physical and emotional and mental abuse is part and parcel of the treatment meted out there.

        It's easy to claim a high success rate when you give inmates the worst possible rating to begin with, then destroy their independent spirit and turn them into cult zombies using classical brainwashing techniques.

        Again and again I am reading in comments and interviews how good the program makes the parents feel. What does the parent's satisfaction have to do with the helpfulness of the program for their son or daughter? Many young people with addictions come from families with problems and need those helping them to be impartial, not on the side of their parents! It seems the fact that parents can afford to pay $50,000 per year is the most important criteria in deciding the child's mind is the problem in their family that needs to be fixed.

        A genuine Treatment Centre for addicted youth would recognize that childhood trauma and related dissociative disorders is the underlying cause of those with mental and emotional problems. Such trauma can be healed, but only when people are in a safe place with people who truly care for them and respect them. AARC is clearly not safe when inmates are labelled liars and raped and tortured with impunity! Instead of a place where the effects of trauma can be healed so that people no longer have a need to self-medicate the sub-clinical symptoms of PTSD from childhood, AARC traumatizes them again.

        The only way out is to stop being yourself and live a lie by acting as the puppet AARC and your parents want you to be. Putting such "graduates" in power positions over those newly admitted to AARC gives the damaged parts of themselves opportunities to act out their pain and anger by torturing others, and so the whole sick cycle continues!

        Where is the government Youth Advocate's Office, and the Child and Youth Protection Services in all of this? How has it been allowed to continue in spite of the serious complaints from former inmates? Why have their complaints about rape and torture not been investigated by police? Why has the professional body governing Psychologists not revoked the Director's licence? Close AARC down! Lay charges!
      manifesto2000 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 1:55 PM ET
        fixer1 has a set of assumptions that are typical of those who have not looked at the whole systemic problem of the drug culture - and the collusion between gangs, police and big money that actually work together to carve up turf within this "industry". If you look at it from the vewipoint of the enlightened law enforcement perspective represented by agencies such as LEAP - you will see that the bullying approach to rehab does not have the efficacy of removing the criminal motivation in drug use.

        Dr. Gabor Mat? of the Portland Hotel Society in Vancouver has thoroughly looked at what works to really deal with addiction motivation - and he has found evidence that the most serious corrective action is to have every abused drug provided to addicts in a clinical environment free of charge - with the diversion and life management resources right there immediately at hand. The addict quickly loses interest in the substance abuse - and gravitates to the positive alternatives.

        The value of this approach is that it 1) takes the profit motive out of the street suppliers thereby removing the questionable and poisonous substances off the streets; and 2) gets the abuser of drugs to access resources that allow the person to evolve out of the drug culture. This has a very effective track record in the controlled studies that have been carried out. We need to understand that the current police/gang model is the road to disaster.
      booman69 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 2:38 PM ET
        This program is a joke. As a member in the fellowship of AA, it sickend me to see them quoting AA steps, prayers and sayings. They tout the 12 Steps, but with the 12 Steps come the 12 Traditions that AA follows, and these bozos BROKE just about all of them. The people that run this program have probably NEVER been to AA meetings to see how they are run. I know some can be a bit off the wall, but for the MOST part,AA meetings do help with drinking problems if you have the capacity to be honest with yourself. This so-called "Doctor" is just looking at $$$Money$$ and 80% sucses rate? Come on,get real, it's more like 5-10% inthe real world with real "Doctors" running the show, not some hacker with alternative school papers!
      Mad Scientist wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 2:41 PM ET
        These spoiled rotten brats have never had a spanking-so anything to them is abuse.

        Society needs to get back to parents rights-not childrens rights-when I got a spanking as a kid- I desevred it- and it corrected my actions-this is a good thing as I did not want another one.
      tarastar wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 3:53 PM ET
        There are many posts on this page taken from a facebook group in support of AARC, created by and populated with, AARC grads. What the moderators of that group aren't posting to the CBC board are all of the other comments that were deleted from that facebook group because they didn't commit to 100% unquestioning support of AARC. Just so you know, there are many more former clients of AARC who have similar complaints - not just the few that were on the Fifth Estate. I can and will personally corroborate some of the stories that have been told.

        The religious fervour with which people want to protect AARC is disturbing. Regardless of what Dean Vause's intentions are, or the intentions of his staff, there are things inherent in the treatment model that open up the clients up to all kinds of abuses and their methods need to be properly investigated. If a teacher were to call a child names, or physically restrain a child, or push them up against a wall, wouldn't that teacher be fired? If a parent repeatedly and systematically threatens their child, isn't that considered abusive? So why are the people working at AARC allowed to operate this way? AARC staff repeatedly tell kids that they are breaking them down in order to build them back up. That's called brainwashing. That is behavioural conditioning. There should be various institutions in place to help kids with drug problems and kids with emotional problems - but those institutions should operate in an ethical manner that is consistent with medical research, under the direction of qualified and impartial professionals, under the scrutiny of outside governing bodies.

        I was a client of AARC 15 years ago. I worked there as a peer counsellor for nearly 3 years. I am 31 years old today and I am still de-programming. The emotional damage from the brainwashing I experienced was paramount. My self-esteem was more damaged leaving than when I came in.I had incredible difficulty reintegrating into the community. That's one reason so many former clients never leave the protection of the AARC community. As for the 80% success rate - where did that number really come from? No one has ever surveyed me or any of my friends on what we're doing in our lives. Dean has been throwing that "success rate" out since 1994, never with any variation or proof, just a demand for trust. I would like to see some actual evidence for Dean's claims - evidence provided by an outside impartial entity.

        AARC needs to be thoroughly investigated.
      laura2032 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 4:36 PM ET
        To the families who are at their wits end and don't know where to turn; I urge you to do your own research. This interview showed only one of many perspectives. And there are many commentaries here from people who have no experience with the program. In watching this, and reading the comments, I fear that parents will be scared off, and their child will not get treatment. Do research, and get other sources. And know that no family has EVER been turned away from AARC because of money.
      Vain Zero wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 4:51 PM ET
        Edwin Elbert wrote:
        Posted 2009/02/15
        at 1:34 PM ET
        Truth is very fluid and not a static quantifiable entity. I saw it on TV it must be true! Thought can be challenging so we allow others to do it for us.

        Grant me the serenity....
        --------------------------------
        --------------------------------

        I disagree. Truth is not fluid: it is merely hard to ascertain. For instance if a girl was sexually abused in a broom closet as reported in the news article. The truth of that is not fluid. SHe was assaulted or she was not. Nothing fluid about it.

        Now from other sources it seems like this place has an 80% HATE rate and a 20% former abductees become staff members rate. THat to me, says it all right there.
      brodygurl wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 5:07 PM ET
        Booman69; You say you are a member of AA, and your outrage clearly shows, but how can you condemn others for not living by the traditions of AA when you yourself have blatently disregarded the 3rd tradition. Who are you to turn your back on an addict in need? Whatever happened to the only requirement to find sanctuary within the rooms be a desire to stop drinking? What happened to service? If you are as supierior to those fellow addicts as you come across to be, then why not show them the way? Why not take your program and use it to help others rather than find flaw in their attempt at a better life? Do you not remember the days just previous to when you yourself found the safety of being understood and accepted by others just like you? Can you not recall your very first meeting? Are these kids any different? AA is based on attraction rather than promotion. What do you have that is attractive to others? A critical opinion of how those around you just dont follow the rules close enough to deserve the same patience and guidence that you were shown? What would you say if you were to find out that a struggling addict came across your post while seeking help and came to the conclusion that it was better to die in a gutter with a bottle in his hand than have yet one more person look down their nose at him for his failures and shortcomings? Would you say, "no thats different"? Well what's so different about a teen who finds their way to sobriety through a treatment centre than a drunk who gambled away his mortgage? Each one has lost precious time and made horrible mistakes. I ask, who are you, to turn away from those in need? The Big Book was founded on the notion that one alchohoilc can help another in a way that doctors never could. Bill W. was not a doctor, just a mere man with a hope that through helping others, he himself could escape the bleak and lonely path of addiction. Remember, no one man is AA. You cannot do it alone and neither can those kids. Perhaps you need eachother.
        "HUMILITY amounts to a clear recognition of what and who we really are, followed by a sincere attempt to become what we could be. Therefore, our first practical move toward humility must consist of recognizing our deficiencies". Do not let your ego stand in the way of helping another who suffers as you did. Being in recovery is not recovered. If you look in their eyes, your same pain will be reflected back. Help them and you'll help yourself stay sober and happy. God Bless.


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      Offline Ursus

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      Comments #6 for "Alberta drug rehab centre abused us"
      « Reply #9 on: September 13, 2009, 06:13:46 PM »
      Comments to the above CBC News article, Alberta drug rehab centre abused us, former teen patients allege, #s 126-150:


      Psy From Fornits wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 5:08 PM ET
        "And know that no family has EVER been turned away from AARC because of money."

        Course not. AARC gets paid back in spades when DV parades the kids on stage at his fundraisers. Concern for confidentiality? bah!

        "I fear that parents will be scared off, and their child will not get treatment"

        I think parents (and their kids) are better off looking for "treatment" elsewhere. There *are* alternatives.
      Alberta 'Have Not' wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 5:09 PM ET
        Centre claims high success rate

        “But I would just say to you Gillian, be careful because I’m telling you I’ve worked in this field for 25 years. They’re the best cons in the world …,” said Vause.

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Response;

        This does not surprise me in the least. Having been Homeless for twenty years I have seen a lot of violence and abuse of all kinds in the emergency shelters in Canada.

        And I have to yet see a social worker or emergency shelter turn one life, yes just one single life around.

        Most off the people who are at these shelters today have been there for the past twenty to thirty years.

        Thats an aweful poor success rate at every emergency shelter in Canada.

        Whats going on in there By's ?
      ducksinarow wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 5:37 PM ET
        when it comes down to one persons word over another - taking the word of the teenage drug addict who would be a notorious liar is a bit short sighted

        there is a possibility they are telling the whole truth but not much of a probability...
      Psy From Fornits wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 5:51 PM ET
        " Are these kids any different? AA is based on attraction rather than promotion."

        And in theory not based on coercion. These kids are coerced to take AARC's perversion of the first step. They don't progress in the program unless they don't. You really think that will hold up long term?

        I can tell you from experience, since I co-administer a very large forum of Straight Inc. and other coercive "treatment" survivors that all it does in the long term is make people very, *very*, bitter towards AA in all it's forms.

        I have no problems with AA so long as it's voluntary, but AARC is not AA and it is *not* voluntary. AARC graduates speak the AA lingo so they can fit in like walking billboards and promote their group, but what do they really know about *giving* up power. What do they really know about *living* a life of sobriety. All institutions teach is how to hang out with the institutionalized, and that isn't even accounting for the long term damage caused by the abuses alleged at AARC.
      Psy From Fornits wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 5:55 PM ET
        "when it comes down to one persons word over another - taking the word of the teenage drug addict who would be a notorious liar is a bit short sighted

        there is a possibility they are telling the whole truth but not much of a probability..."

        They didn't take one teenage "drug addict's" word. They took a number of stable people, at least one of whom was diagnosed to *not* be an addict by an independent evaluation (and to have been falsely labeled as an addict by AARC). In addition, I happen to know for a fact that far more people (including at least one parent) were interviewed but they were cut out for time constraints.
      mango1 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 5:56 PM ET
        I thank CBC for airing this show. Hopefully it will throw a wrench into Dean Vause's almighty "AARC Machine". A well executed, independent assessment of AARC is imperative and long overdue.

        One wonders why AARC would classify a non-addicted person, such as the young lady featured on the program, as a "Level-3" addict and then intake them, treat them and graduate them as such?

        Perhaps having non-addicts graduate from the AARC program helps to maintain the "80% success rate" that AARC claims to have.
      mango1 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 6:06 PM ET
        I am Professional Engineer, married and soon to be mother of two. Neither I nor my husband use alcohol or drugs and neither of us belong to any AA affiliated program.

        My brother went through AARC with three of the AARC graduates featured on this show.

        Myself, as a "sibling" who never had a drinking/drug problem, had to attend "sibling rap" for the duration of my brother's treatment.

        More than a decade later, I am still contending with the damages caused to me by the treatment I was forced to undergo at AARC.

        It is catastrophic that AARC has still not been called to task by Canada’s governing bodies on its ongoing exploits and abuses of desperate family members.
      Alberta 'Have Not' wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 6:36 PM ET
        AARC Survivor wrote:
        Posted 2009/02/15
        at 1:21 PM ET

        About five years ago I began to question my own actions toward other graduates that had returned to drinking. I had, with other graduates some of which were at the time staff at AARC, gone to one girls house to tell her off for "relapsing". God do I ever feel like an ass about that. But this is the sort of behaviour promoted by AARC. Tough love, throw it in their face, raise the bottom, If they are drinking do not support them in any way, they need to hit bottom.
        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Reply:

        Lot of con artists in this world:

        Love is kind, love is gentle, love is understanding it is not harsh, tough, abusive but rather endures forever.

        I hate that uneducated phase and oxymoron "Tough love"
      brodygurl wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 7:24 PM ET
        Psy From Fornits;
        Yes, coercion isnt part of the AA program, but tell me, if you had 14 year old daughter who was sticking needles in her arm and living in a crack house with a 30 year old "boyfriend", making him money by selling her body, would you not want to save her life? Nearly all treatment centres will tell you "we wont keep them against their will" or "your child needs to be clean for 3 days before they can be admitted". How would you feel, knowing that no treatment centre can keep your daughter safe from the dangers lying behind the closed doors of houses that should be condemned? Would you not want to do everything in your power to protect your child and have them back, instead of screaming at you to go away any time you get near them? Yes, in AA, no one is forced to be there. But for most in AA, there has been decades of time to try and fail at living life in the throes of addiction. By the time most walk through those doors, they've had enough.
        A 14 year old girl does not have the capacity to know whats best for her. Thats why parents are responsible for their children until 18, and sometimes even longer. A 14 year old may not see that running away and partying all night high on things she cant even name, is anything but a fun time. She may really truly believe that her 30 year old "boyfriend" really loves her and that he gives her drugs because shes so mature and cool. Any adult can see whats really going on. And somebody needs to step in. BEFORE her body is found in an ally somewhere. AARC is that sombody willing to stand between your daughter and her addiction. AARC is the one place where is doesnt matter how loud you scream in their faces, they wont cringe or back away because it might be too hard. When each and every one of you who has your torch already lit to burn the place down, experiences what its like to fear that the night before, when you combed the streets of downtown looking for the little girl you used to kiss goodnight, only to find her and have her swear in your face and threaten your life, that that may be the last time you ever see her because she truly looked like death, when you have felt that desperation for anyone or anything to come save your family and allow you to sleep without the constant fear that your next phone call will be from the homicide department, if you can then tell me that AARC is the tortureous prison that this artical has painted it as, then perhaps I might give you credit.
      brodygurl wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 7:25 PM ET
        AARC never abused me, never called me anything I wasnt. I was a liar and a con. From day one, as I sat there hating everyone for coming between me and the life i was convinced was perfectly fine, all they said to me was, "I care about you". Please, anyone out there who has not gone by the centre, who hasnt gone for coffee with the kids who were inches from death when they walked in, but are now finishing degrees and building families of their own on principles of honesty and trust, find time in your busy schedule to stop by. Perhaps give yourselves the benifit of knowing both sides in order to speak to people from a place of absolute understanding of the whole picture. Those who you tell, will take your word more seriously if you can provide arguments for whichever side you take. Dont sell yourselves short by regurgitating this article and throwing in some internet reasearch to make it sound original. You owe it to yourselves to base your arguments on an informed decision. We grads give you our stories because we were there. We watched the growth and the rebirth of kids who were convinced no one could help them. Take the time to find out how much of what you watch on tv is really truth. And if you feel the same way after giving it an honest look and opportunity to show you the other side of the coin, I will respect your opinion as one coming from a fair voice.
      Edwin Elbert wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 8:16 PM ET
        Vain Zero I appreciate the response. I may stand corrected. The sexual assault either happened or it didn't. Agreed. It's a very serious allegation. Not to be taken lightly and certainly in need of investigation by the state. At this point in time the proverbial jury is still out. A person to whom an assault has been committed knows the truth. Its awful. To the rest of us the reality remains fluid. The internet and news items are just that. They are part of a process to ascertain the truth for those of us on the sidelines. As much as I personally disagree with boot camp style institutions for people, a false accusation won't help get them out of the recovery field.

        Another person here was asking where the authorities are and is any agency investigating? Good question. The idea of boot camp recovery smells bad. It's too political and the government (as well as many of the electorate) and its agencies, who investigate complaints and conduct investigations see violence, intimidation and fear as a normal rational arbiter of human affairs.

        As for finding help for family members the boot camp appears a rational option as it's about getting someone to behave according to someone else's agenda.

        It is hard watching family members dying of disease. One of the worst feelings in life. There are very honest responsible and experienced addiction counselors out there, however they generally don't tell family members what they want to hear. If we just pay enough the dis ease will just go away or if others will change then we can all go back to doing what we were doing before.

        I'm being facetious here.
        No doubt drugs and alcohol are destructive BUT I want you to change not me. I can handle my booze why can't you? I like getting wasted. Screw you. I won't stop drinking even if it means (young) people, I don't know, will benefit. I don't take drugs so I therefore have a license for self righteous indignation.
      Psy From Fornits wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 9:05 PM ET
        "When each and every one of you who has your torch already lit to burn the place down, experiences what its like to fear that the night before, when you combed the streets of downtown looking for the little girl you used to kiss goodnight, only to find her and have her swear in your face and threaten your life, that that may be the last time you ever see her because she truly looked like death"

        ^^^Appeal to emotion

        Does the program work? Can you prove it? Otherwise, it sort of seems like false advertising to claim, for example, an 80% success rate. As the documentary has shown, AARC admits people who do not have addictions and diagnoses them as serious addicts. No doubt, as confessions are required to progress in the program, those confessions of "I would be dead" are later used for marketing, whether they are objectively true or not.

        All I hear from the AARC supporters is "I would be dead, insane, or in jail wiithout the program that saved my life" in almost those exact words. Does that make it true? No. It's anecdotal evidence. You can't prove that kids with problems (if they had problems) would not have recovered anyway. For that you need double blind and a control group with no treatment.

        If AARC does work, prove it. Not with emotion or anecdotal evidence, but with fact. The only thing that can satisfy that condition is a truly independent study and investigation that has not been conducted.

        This isn't even to mention that even if it *did* work... at what cost? Do the ends always justify the means? Oldcomers having complete control over newcomers is almost a guarantee that abuse will occur (if you've never read about the Stanford prison experiments, now would be a good time).
      artiste wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 9:39 PM ET
        This article is terribly disturbing. The CBC has done a public service by making this public as the allegations are serious and need police and government investigation.

        Drug addiction may start out as experimentation, rebellion etc. but the ramifications for many are devastating. Drug addiction is an illness just as cancer and mental illness etc. are. No one knows why some people become addicted to drugs and others don't. There are those that try drugs and leave it alone and others that seem to be addicted after the first use. Drug addicts need to be under the care of medical professionals. More needs to be done to determine the best way of giving these people back their lives so they can become fully functional members of society.

        The accusations of abuse by some people at this facility are seen to hold no merit as who would believe a drug addict as they are worthless human
        beings and the lowest dregs of society. Well, you know, that would make them perfect targets of abuse wouldn't it? People that one could abuse because no one would believe them. Human beings that are considered only with contempt and are unworthy of the protection and the same laws that the rest of society is guaranteed. A thorough investigation is necessary because that is the right thing to do.
      Randy from Fornets wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 9:40 PM ET
        This story doesn't hold a lot of credibility or else Gillian and the CBC would have already gone to AARC with the police and shut it down. This is the big difference between kids and AARC; one is shut down, one is not. There's a lot of opinions in the world and the best thing a person can do is find peace for themselves no matter what the cost.
      soccerjess90 wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 9:57 PM ET
        AARC is a program that cannot be comprehended by families that have not lived with or lost a loved one due to the disease of drug addiction. The Fifth Estate targeted an audience that had no previous knowledge of the disease of addiction, and therefore could not portray the desperation of families that have places their children into the AARC program.
        My sister went through AARC at the age of 17 and is completely sober today. However, at a first glance, we too initially thought that AARC was too intense for adolescent drug addicts.
        Many people do not realize that Alberta (or Canada, for that fact) has no other facilites for chemically addicted teens. By the age of 15, my sister had attempted suicide twice. She had ran away from home and was living on the streets until the police found her and dragged her home. We then had her placed into the psych ward at our local hospital, where she was diagnosed with clinical depression. Safe enough, right? The psychiatric centre should be the safest place possible for people who are at risk of hurting themselves or others. Much to our dismay, we went to visit her one day and then noticed her dialted pupils and her constant body twitching. She was high. In the psych ward. Beleive me, if there's a way to do it, the drug addict will find it. We were at our lengths' end. So where do you put one when tere is nowhere else to go? AARC.
        The Fifth Estate's interpritation of AARC is one that is completly biased and without veiw of the desperation of these broken families that come to seek long-term drug treatment. When I heard that CBC was doing a show that wasn't infavour of the facility, I knew that all people that had never come face to face with a drug addiction would react in the close-minded, stuck-up way that most sheltered families do. Nobody is above drug addiction. It can happen to anybody. Therefore, nobody is above long-term drug treatment and the drastic measures that it takes to get these teens sober and off the streets.
      Psy From Fornits wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 10:51 PM ET
        "This is the big difference between kids and AARC; one is shut down, one is not."

        KIDS was open for quite a long time before it was shut down. Miller Newton had conned politicians and all sorts of other people.
      Jim Poushinsky wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 10:52 PM ET
        I hope those who have been abused in the AARC program will find a suitable lawyer and launch a Class Action Lawsuit to stop the AARC treatment of youths for violating the Canadian Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms. Also to obtain compensation for damages suffered, and to have those who harmed them punished.

        From descriptions of the methods used by AARC, they are in violation of Section 12 of the Charter, which states " Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual treatment or punishment. " Also, under the Equality provision, Section 15, Canadians cannot be discriminated against because of .... " sex, age or mental or physical disability." Other Charter Rights appear to have been violated as well, in particular Section 2 which gives everyone the Right to the following fundamental freedoms:
        a) freedom of conscience and religion;
        b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
        c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
        d) freedom of association.

        In light of the airing of the W5 Documentary and the allegations of abuse and serious crimes committed against some who were forced to participate in the AARC program, the Alberta Attorney General's Office needs to instruct the police to conduct an immediate criminal investigation into systemic human Rights violations at AARC with a view to shutting the operation down and either freeing or finding proper treatment that does not violate their Charter Rights for the youths detained there.

        As for the parents of these youths, if they truly care about their child they will get him or her out of AARC immediately, and apologize for having put them in such an abusive program. Doing this will have a far greater healing effect on family and child than leaving them at AARC until it is finally shut down. Whatever form the eventual investigation and whatever the outcome, there is enough reason for concern in the W5 program and related testimony from those who have been there, to act now to protect your child. In future seek help from the bona fide Canadian Mental Health System, not from an abusive cult bewitched by a charismatic phoney guru and masquerading as a private not-for-profit treatment centre!
      David John wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 11:21 PM ET
        The allegations are serious enough that a public inquiry is warranted.
      johnrod wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 11:28 PM ET
        I have full sympathy for parents who have an addicted child . The frustration of helplessly seeing your child destroying themselves must be heartbreaking. Such desperation can lead to a willingness to consider extreme measures. A program that seems to offer answers and boasts an 80% recovery rate must seem like a godsend indeed especially when there are no other alternatives.
        The problem is that there are no government supervised centers that can legally hold youth against their will. Private centers like AARC thrive in such circumstances. They have no oversight and so can get away with questionable practices. Government is clearly shirking responsibility in the first place by not providing appropriately monitored treatment facilities. Government also tacitly condones questionable and possibly illegal practices by funding the AARC program without providing monitoring and oversight.
        AARC's claim of an 80% success rate needs to be more closely examined. How did they arrive at these figures? What constitutes 'success'? Over what period of time?
        As government provides funding for the program, it seems that it has not done due diligence in checking out the cure claims, the background of programs in the US and, the credibility of the qualifications of those running the AARC program. Do the former innmate 'peer counselors'' receive adequate training and supervision? Addicted children and their desperate parents are at least owed that much by their government.
        Governments have a history of passing responsibility on to 3rd parties without adequate monitorinng and supervision. Remember the residential schools?
      Kizmit wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 11:29 PM ET
        Addiction is a terribly destructive force. It can make people do things that they never dreamed of doing. That being said while I agree that there is a need for substance abuse treatment programs that are specifically geared towards teens and teaching life skills I don't agree that abuse should be a part of the package. If there is any truth to the accusations that are being made by former patients of this treatment center things need to change in a hurry. A treatment program can be intense and strict without being abusive and some kids need the toughest treatment available. Sadly there is a good possibility that at least some of the accusations being made are true, in my opinion this constitutes a significant betrayal of trust. Parents and guardians are looking to this treatment facility to provide expert care by capable, compassionate human beings. Just because these kids are former drug addicts doesn't mean that they're also lying through their teeth. Drug treatment for teens is becoming increasingly necessary in today's world but when parents and caregivers entrust minor children to a treatment facility they should never have to wonder if the environment is safe and free of abuse and other forms of violence. Investigating this facility is important and necessary, if there is any doubt about any of the people involved in the treatment program whether they are staff or mentors in the form of other patients with more clean time the people in question should be forced to leave the facility - no questions asked. Abuse of a child is wrong under any circumstances regardless of the type of abuse or the circumstances surrounding it.
      soccerjess90 wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 12:05 AM ET
        this program will obviously not work for everybody. nothing will work for everybody. however, it HAS kept over 200 teenagers sober and alive. these are the numbers that need to be recognized.
      amoff001 wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 12:59 AM ET
        This is really easy if you apply to your own life situation:

        If you were assaulted and robbed how would you feel? When you stood in court and faced your attacker, would you plead with the judge to show mercy if your attacker was shown to have a heavy drug dependance? Would you forgive him his trespass and suggest he get some counselling and an investigation into the injustice that is his life? Would you even offer to pay for these "rehabilitation" processes with your taxes?

        I'm not going to answer for you.

        I'd want the the sucker to rot in jail.

        The trouble is this:

        While your unskilled petty thug is cooling his heals with 3 hots-and-a-cot plus all the computing and tv he can handle (in prison - if he gets lucky enough to do at least 2 years) he is building resentments, maintaining a street mentality (just to get by) and making lot of new friends. If he's really lucky (or even just not annoying) he may even re-enter the free world with a new vocation! Your once unskilled thug can now make thousnds of your hard earned dollars go "bye-bye" through identity fraud.

        There is, however, an alternative.

        Rather than letting these kids get to that low of violent crime - or any crime for that matter - why not behave like ADULTS and realize that teenagers don't always know what's best for them!!! If you think they do, why can't they smoke, drink, or vote until they are 18? No kid is going to willingly leave all their friends and activities to learn how to deal with life without drugs or alcohol. If they aren't forced to smarten up they may well have many years to go before they hit their own personal wall. Pray to your higher power that you don't get in their way, or accidently provide an opportunistic youngster the means to an end he was just looking for.
      brodygurl wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 1:15 AM ET
        "From descriptions of the methods used by AARC, they are in violation of Section 12 of the Charter, which states " Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual treatment or punishment"
        Particularly focusing on the first 8 words you wrote, you are basing your textbook jargon on the descriptions and opinions of others. If you really wanted to find out if AARC is indeed violating any human rights in their treatment of drug addicted kids, why not close the book/webpage you copied your information from and go see for yourself. Why do so many just follow the pack?! Just because someone said it, doesnt make it true. How can so many have opinions when all they have to go by is what they've been fed during their late night programs?! If what was aired had been true,
        then I too would be among you who cry out against the injustices a few bitter children claimed to have suffered.Tell me, when your kids come home from school and tell you they hate it there and their teachers hate them and pick on them, what do you say? I should hope you tell them that sometimes things arent always what they seem and maybe their perspective is skewed. Perhaps you might even go as far as to go and speak to the teachers to find out for yourself. Most often times, you may hear a whole other side to the story. This is a perfect parallel to AARC. Perhaps these few among so many are angry because they see what has saved so many lives, as something monstrous because their perspective is
        so warped. How many years have they had, to cultivate the stories they profess? What may have been some small incident in the beginning, could very well have morphed into the atrocities they now feel were suffered during their stay at AARC. Thats not to say that Im disbelieving what they say, but only because I havent had the opportunity to find out the other side of it. I reserve my judgment. So why cant any of you? All are ready to
        jump into battle at the first sign of turbulance, but who among you, will take the time to find out where the turbulance originated? Who among you will be brave enough to hold your opinion until the other party has a chance to defend themselves? Yes, perhaps AARC should be investigated, but maybe, instead of letting the media do it for you, find out for yourselves!
      brodygurl wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 1:19 AM ET
        If you can take the time to google supposed charter violations, then you must have more than enough time to look up the names of 2 individuals who's lives were celebrated only mere months ago with more than 700 people in attendance at each of their funerals. Each and every one that came to pay their respects, had had their lives touched in one way or another, but
        always for the better, by these 2 boys. Its ok if you want to condemn; that is your right as an individual. You can make up your own mind, but let it truly be you who makes it for yourselves. Dont rely on one persons view of a situation this great to convince the masses of one version of a truth. Just because some late night tv slot filled your after dinner entertainment, doesnt make it fact. If that were the case, then think how absurd it would be if everyone were to begin believing the series 24? Is it rational to be convinced that an atomic bomb attack is imminent at any given moment? Absolutely not. Its just televison. Its not real. Then answer me this: who really out there would choose to watch a show that consisted of 24 hour round the clock monitoring of a newborn infant? Not in anyone's top ten list? Why I ask? Because we all know whats going to happen. The baby might roll over if we're lucky. Exciting. But what of a scandle, right here in our own town? What about the intrigue of the pain and suffering of others? Who among us isnt keen to crane their necks at a car crash? And what of it all? Entertainment. Another moment spent giving an opinion on the lives of somebody other than ourselves. And then on to the next thing that sparks our interest once we beat that dead horse into the ground.You ask for proof? I give you proof. I was on the streets at 16 years old, selling
        crystal meth, barely eating, barely sleeping. I weighed 85 pounds when i was arrested on a mental health warrant due to psychosis. I had no knowledge that anything could ever get better. I had given up every dream I ever had in order to smoke meth. I hated everyone I hung out with and sold to, and most of all I hated myself. Every day that went by in the end, was a desperate fight to stay high. Anything to keep from coming down and facing the fact that I lived in a bush next to the river. Anything to numb
        the pain of whats knows as street feet, or more commonly as trench foot, from spending days in the pouring rain with nowhere to dry off.
      jpeter wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 2:25 AM ET
        So is Dean saying everything is perfect at AARC? Anybody who dares to raise any concern must be listenting to a horrible addict? Give me a break! Shut this trash hole down!


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      Offline Ursus

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      Comments #7 for "Alberta drug rehab centre abused us"
      « Reply #10 on: September 14, 2009, 11:40:09 AM »
      Comments to the above CBC News article, Alberta drug rehab centre abused us, former teen patients allege, #s 151-175:


      jpeter wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 2:31 AM ET
        Simply question is has AARC left any youth in the control of ian ndividual they knew had a history of sexual assault? Dean would seem to say of course not but pretty sure thats a lie. I mean it seems Dean is not willing to even do a formal investigation. Instead they are are just lies tossed out by drugies. I mean who are we to believe? A guy who claims to be a Dr. despite not being trained in the field or the individuals who are claiming the assauly?
      jpeter wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 2:47 AM ET
        I just noticed the large banners at the fundraiser. What exactly is an oil company like Nexen endorsing such a sick and twisted organization? Putting in teens because they smoked pot a couple of times?
      brodygurl wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 5:04 AM ET
        There was a 3/3 to my last point but it failed to make the"grade". email me if you are interested...
        The next time a solidier comes back from war in a casket, will you say that the war isnt worth it? That because of one casualty, all liberty gained through determination and refusal to give up, should be left to fend for itself beacuse one fallen soldier is enough to turn tail and run? There will always be those among us who, no matter the circumstance, will always seek out and find the bad in everything. And, most often will blow it way out of proportion in an effort to gain the sympathy of others. misery Loves company doesnt it? For all of you who have taken the biased, underhanded, side of your belovedly blond reporter and the heresay of a couple of disgruntled adults who never got over the teen angst stage, I simply ask you to maybe go talk to the HUNDREDS of grads who's lives have been changed, without question, into lives they can be proud of. There will always be rotten apples in every bunch. Its just a matter of sorting through whats really the truth and whats just a big fabrication in order to get your 5 minutes of fame and a little pity attention.
        On a side note, in the video, Rachel mentions hearing the voices of both of her assailents. Seeing as how AARC tends to have a maximum of 30 to a group, it would have been simple to identify who it had been. Even if no action had been taken at the time, you would think that something like that would stick with you, including the voices of the 2 teenage boys. Just something to think about...Perhaps not all adds up as neatly as first thought
      Psy From Fornits wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 6:39 AM ET
        Brodygurl,

        The number of critics and "graduates" who have complaints with AARC are *far* more than that which were featured in the documentary. Rachael was just the best choice in the time constraints as her case was well documented. I co-administer a forum discussing AARC and other programs and hers is hardly only allegation I have heard of rape.

        Can you answer a few questions objectively?

        1. Do AARC clients have any privacy at all? Is their journal even private?

        2. Is confessing to an addiction a requirement for advancement in the program.

        3. Do you write reports on yourself or others confessing your past misdeeds. Is the truth of these admissions critiqued by the group (i.e. do they tell you whether or not you are telling the truth and being honest enough? How do they know whether or not they are right?

        4. Do you feel it's appropriate for peer counselors who are not trained to be conducting what is tantamount to therapy on other teens? To have authority over them?

        5. How much control do oldcomers have over newcomers?
      tompatty wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 11:09 AM ET
        Somebody's looking for $ for that next hit.
      Jim Poushinsky wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 12:19 PM ET
        Brodygurl, I know a lot more about this subject than you think. I watched the W5 documentary. There is no doubt in my mind that Rachel O'Neill was telling the truth about being raped by two men in the closet. As she told her story she began reliving the experience and went into shock, barely able to finish speaking. People don't fake involuntary reactions to trauma memories. I know because I've been there. I myself am a survivor of overwhelming trauma including rape. I also know because I spent my working life in child and social services helping the victims of broken homes, childhood abuse, and mental and emotional illness.

        I see you are in Calgary. I was born in Calgary, I carry an Alberta birth certificate, so I have felt a connection to Calgary my entire life. I also know a lot about the residential treatment of children and youth. I am a certified Child Care Worker with experience in 3 different residental treatment settings and 2 day treatment programs. As an MSW social worker I have experience as a Children's Aid protection worker and as a psychiatric family services worker.

        I have had a private practice helping survivors of trauma with PTSD and dissociative disorders to heal themselves, and have taught this subject at community college to addictions workers, and in the community to HIV prevention wokers, women's shelters, aboriginal centres, community health centres, and corrections half-way houses. I have run healing programs in Public Housing projects and for street people.

        I cannot find words to describe how upset I am on hearing the testimony of those survivors of the AARC program who have healed themselves sufficiently from the trauma they endured there to speak out in protest over what is happening! My heart goes out to all who have suffered and are still sufferng there, and I hope it's supporters will come to their senses and realize they have made a huge mistake in backing the AACR treatment model.

        Yes, there are youth in need of help for addictions, but these addictions are largely self-medication for much deeper emotional and psychological troubles arising from trauma they endured in their childhoods that is still affecting them and requires healing. The punitive abusive blaming methods used by AACR to brainwash kids are contributing to their load of overwhelming trauma, not helping. This was the model for the old Reform Schools , now closed as inumane. Canada must do a lot better. Close AACR!
      one more clue wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 1:08 PM ET
        AARCGRAD106 Wrote:

        "My Loyalty is to Dr Vause and It always will be, he has always stood right beside me and I will do the same for him. I trust him with my life and anyone close to me, I trust every word he says to me without a doubt my loyalty is to him 100 %"

        I'll bet every one of Jim Jones' faithful followers felt the same way. . . .and David Koresh. . . . and Charles Manson. . . . and. . . you get the point. . . just sayin.
      one more clue wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 1:11 PM ET
        ducksinarow wrote: Posted 2009/02/15 at 5:37 PM ET

        "when it comes down to one persons word over another - taking the word of the teenage drug addict who would be a notorious liar is a bit short sighted

        there is a possibility they are telling the whole truth but not much of a probability..."

        That was the general response to those who complained about their treatment at the hands of the predator priests, the Christian Brothers, the residential school system. . . . How'd that work out in the end?. . . Oh. . . .yeah. . . .right.

        'Nufsed.
      jpeter wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 2:34 PM ET
        Why do AARC supporters come here and attack the former clients who left AARC? Calling them liars or druggies makes it seem like AARC is just like any other cult when denying charges from former members. Instead of simply saying they have reviewed the claims or they would, they go after a potential victim. Typically, if you don't want to appear like a cult then don't act like one. Just because somebody used drugs does not make them a drug addict who you can personally abuse emotionally.
      smithy13 wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 3:14 PM ET
        First off I am sure that everything I write will be judged as just another AARC brainwashed guy who supports my beloved cult blindly. It will not matter at all that I state I am not brainwashed (as this seems to somehow hold less weight than saying “I am awakened to the light and truth” or simply telling me that i am indeed brainwashed which seems pretty hypocritical as they dont want to be told they were in fact not brainwashed and are drug addicts ) again I restate I am not brainwashed. I am a 4th year university student I have been trained for the last 4 years to question the truth of everything. my opinions and principled would land on the far side of Liberal not the tough love side of conservative. II do find faults at AARC I see many things that could be improved. However almost none of them are the same as the anti-AARC propaganda being stated on this board. If people did not like their treatment or feel they are no longer or were never drug addicts then that is fine I can both understand and sympathize with their situations but that is your single experience. Do not extrapolate your experience to mean it is abusive, wrong and therefore a horrible place. There is nothing abusive about AARC, some people may have felt like they had an abusive experience and in today’s society often times the one who cries wolf gets all the credibility (which I am in full agreement with) I do not believe that the little guy should be shunned or his cries turned away. However this is not the case here. The world of drug addiction is a twisted place where nice people are seen as marks to abuse and when people give an inch the drug addict takes hundreds of kilometers there is nothing that can be done about that. the fact that a drug addict lies does not mean that AARC should not be watched should not be regulated and should be above the law. I welcome the world to investigate AARC I would think it will be its finest hour. AARC has nothing to hide it has nothing to run from. This will do doubt be chocked up to religious or cult dogma and passed over by the people that have already made their minds up about the place. I cannot change their minds a closed mind is a silly person to debate. All I can do is plead with people who find themselves trapped in the addiction either family or child to not listen to the people that hate AARC. but to only make up your own mind. Ask yourself if the sampling of 4 clients is representative of the 400 some odd graduates of the place
      smithy13 wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 3:28 PM ET
        Someone asked if these questions could be answered. First off I want make notice to another person’s point before answering the reason as you put it “Why do AARC supporters come here and attack the former clients who left AARC?” the answer is we do not most of the posts on here are not attacking or making light of the allegations they are a heartfelt defense of a place that we all feel saved our lives. I would ask why all the people who left AARC are so interested in attacking the supporters and calling us brainwashed cult members. Typically if one doesn’t want to be a cult of AARC ‘survivors’ one shouldn’t act like one. just a side not as well I love when people try and act like there just a concerned member of the public who just stumbled on to this board. most people on here have an agenda so maybe we should stop pretending. do size constraints only 1,3,5 will be answered on here the others in the next message.

        Can you answer a few questions objectively? Yes
        1. Do AARC clients have any privacy at all? Is their journal even private? Why should they and since when do Children deserve privacy? This seems like a child stating his room is his or that no one else can enter it because it is his private space. This reminds me of the 60's propaganda about children who did not have private rooms and were forced to share rooms with their sisters and brothers would become homosexual. Children, who use drugs, steal and lie to their parents may have lost the privilege of privacy but this only because they have proved repeatedly that they cannot be trusted with their privacy Children's Privacy is not important especially considering this is your logic behind not helping them. Does that mean if the tom baker cancer center read your journal you would advocate not taking ones cancerous child there?
        3. Do you write reports on yourself or others confessing your past misdeeds? Is the truth of these admissions critiqued by the group (i.e. do they tell you whether or not you are telling the truth and being honest enough? How do they know whether or not they are right?
        NO you do not. I do not even understand where this question comes from.
        5. How much control do oldcomers have over newcomers? Not that much. Most of the ‘Control’ which is a loaded word here and is often used negatively by the people on these boards obviously with a grudge against AARC. However I digress from that debate, a majority of the ‘control’ again rests with the professionals in the center
      smithy13 wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 3:34 PM ET
        here is the question 2

        2. Is confessing to an addiction a requirement for advancement in the program?
        Yes it is that is because the children that enter are alcoholics. I know Rachel O’Neal right that independent report that was flashed on the screen for 5 seconds confirms that she is not an alcoholic or drug addict. Let us just assume she was not an alcoholic. Well she never finished treatment she ran away and AARC advised her mother (who wanted her to go back to AARC) that they were not the right fit for Rachel. Let us also remember that she had drug induced psychosis which is not as an early post mentioned simple a medical term for a trip. Drug Induced Psychosis is hardly just a bi-product of recreational pot smoking. AARC does not take children that are not addicts. I know that is going to get allot of comments from people who are going to say their not drug addicts. Well whatever their feelings are as they are entitled to their own opinions their drug use was bad enough at the time for their own parents to think they had problems. I have read repeatedly on read on here “the parent throws them in long term drug treatment after they smoke pot once or drink once” this is just insane no one on this entire board is advocating locking up drug addicts to get help after smoking pot once.
      smithy13 wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 3:34 PM ET
        And finally 4

        4. Do you feel it's appropriate for peer counselors who are not trained to be conducting what is tantamount to therapy on other teens? To have authority over them?
        Why not first off, it works secondly, the majority of people in all facets of drug and mental health recovery are unschooled volunteers. Miss O'Neal herself is a volunteer at the crisis hotline being that during the show it was stated that she was in school I doubt she has schooling for this. The fact is that there is again despite the crazy talk on this board about how AARC is just in it for the money very little money to be made of drug addicts. That is why the majority of programs are funded by the federal government because they are the only ones who can run at a loss for decades. The entire social work network relies heavily on non-professional, un-schooled volunteer help. So why is it that AARC’s volunteer help is no open for criticism? The running of group therapy sessions as well as all other areas of work that these volunteers do is always under the direction and guidance of people who do have training in these areas. Whether that be the trained family therapist or the degree’s in addictions counseling these are trained professionals just like in call center, group home, psychiatric ward or other Drug treatment centers.
      joneyponey wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 4:55 PM ET
        Interesting topic, given the Globe & Mail's articles on how to clean up Vancouver's East Side. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing.
      Mediaman wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 5:34 PM ET
        From the number of posts, its obvious that the truth needs to be determined.
        Therefore, I would suggest the provincial government hold an inquiry into AARC, which it funds to the tune of $400 thousand dollars per year. That's taxpayer money and warrants a full accounting. Secondly, let the investigation shine the light on three key areas: the credentias of the Director and staff, the success rate and the accountability of fundraising practices. Once the facts are in, I'll decide whether to support this treatment model and its practitioners. I want facts, rather than allegations and counter allegations from those with a vested interest.
      kyle__ wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 5:36 PM ET
        pressed wrong button... any way life goes on. aarc has helped many individuals as well as families including myself. a little harsh at the time it seemed. metaphorically, i needed a kick in the ass. i learned some important things in aarc which i still practice today, even though i do not consider myself an addict/alcoholic. i currently own & operate a successful construction company in calgary. and have taken the best of my experiences in aarc and in life and turned those experience into a positive outlook on the future.
      mango1 wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 7:19 PM ET
        I agree that desperate Canadian families of addicted teens are in dire need for an institution which they can turn to for REAL help, when they are unable to keep their addicted teens off drugs or off the streets.

        However, just because AARC appears to be the only option for these families at this time, it does not justify the alleged abuses that are happening behind AARC’s doors.

        The Canadian government has failed families of addicted persons on many levels, leaving them vulnerable to abuses such as those alleged to have happened at AARC.

        Much can be learned from both sides of the "is AARC good or bad" argument, and hopefully out of this an effective and far less controversial treatment model can finally be implemented.
      ive forgiven wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 8:35 PM ET
        I too am a "graduate of AARC". I was in there over a decade ago and i still suffer from post traumatic stress from my time spent in that facility. I am very glad this report was aired and that these girls had the courage to speak out. I do believe everything happens for a reason, what the reason is I don't always know, sometimes good comes out of bad. However I hope that this will help stop AARC so that other CHILDREN wont be subjected to this form of abuse. Day in and day out CHILDREN are psychologically and verbally abused in this program. Many times when people are being abused they will stand by their abuser and defend them. These are not the "worst of the worst', but rather CHILDREN AND TEENAGERS with a lot of issues going on inside of them. I know that many former clients don't speak out because of fear of their families not believing and or dis-owening them, as a result of what their families have been taught and told at AARC. I may still suffer from post traumatic stress, however I have learned to forgive. I forgive all the staff at AARC for the abuse that was done to me. All I hope for is that no more children have to go through this form of abuse.
      nolongeradesarateparent wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 9:44 PM ET
        As a nurse and a parent who struggled for many years to find suitable treatment for my son I have some comments to make about the Fifth Estate “documentary” on AARC. I found the program deeply disturbing in that it did nothing to educate the public about adolescent addiction. The program’s underlying premise was that experimentation with drugs and alcohol is a normal part of a childhood development. There is much research that demonstrates the dangerous effects that alcohol and street drugs have on the still developing teenage brain; unfortunately this was completely ignored. Other parents that I met at AARC shared my experience of having searched long and hard to get help for their children: our efforts had met with no success. We were terrified of losing our children to either a life of crime, mental illness or death. Making the decision to put my son in treatment at AARC meant that I had to take a leave from my job, pack up my home of 16 yrs and move from Vancouver to Calgary: going to AARC is certainly not an easy solution. AARC worked for our family because it offers a unique combination of long term, intensive therapy that includes mandatory treatment for parents and siblings. The whole family is treated so each member can recover from the devastating effects of addiction and so that relationships that have been destroyed can be healed. Peer support programs have been demonstrated to be extremely successful and are used in a variety of settings. AARC peer staff work as part of the treatment team in conjunction with professional clinicians. Contrary to Fifth Estate’s portrayal, treating adolescent addicts is not a highly lucrative business. If the clinical and peer staff alike were not highly committed to saving young lives they would not be at AARC, as they could be making much more money elsewhere. Our family’s treatment would not have been possible without the generosity of the Calgary business community that allowed me to receive a subsidy. I will be forever grateful for the professional help we received at AARC and for the tremendous support we have been given since.
      Mortalcoil wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 11:07 PM ET
        Mr. Poushinsky...care to tell us the success rates of your 2 day treatment program. You seem a jack of all trades and a master of none...especially adolescent drug treatment. And may I suggest more therapy as you still seem very hurt which is presenting as anger.
      Mortalcoil wrote: Posted 2009/02/16 at 11:46 PM ET
        This comment has been removed by the moderator.[/list]
        jpeter wrote: Posted 2009/02/17 at 12:14 AM ET
          Sounds like AARC supporters cannot handle anybody raising any concersn with how they run their very questionable organization.Seems like instead of addressing concerns they attempt to silence individuals with personal attacks and threats of lawsuits. So many connections to the kind of actions cults perform.
        Mortalcoil wrote: Posted 2009/02/17 at 1:07 AM ET
          Oh jp all the concerns have been addressed. AARC can handle scrutiny. And no one wants to 'silence' anybody. Right? We all just want the truth. Right? Well, lets see what the truth is shall we?
        jpeter wrote: Posted 2009/02/17 at 2:42 AM ET
          So what has AARC done to review these claims? Other then claiming the individuals raising them are liars despite medical records provide showing differently? Fifth Estate did their own research. This not simply based on the inviduals featured but many others who were interviewed. The issues going on at AARC need to be dealt with. Going out in public and calling individuals liars is not dealing with the problem.
        Psy From Fornits wrote: Posted 2009/02/17 at 2:47 AM ET
          "Going out in public and calling individuals liars is not dealing with the problem."

          I think part of that problem is that they haven't taken the first step. They're still in denial!

          lol


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        Offline Ursus

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        Comments #8 for "Alberta drug rehab centre abused us"
        « Reply #11 on: September 14, 2009, 11:43:10 AM »
        Comments to the above CBC News article, Alberta drug rehab centre abused us, former teen patients allege, #s 176-?:


        jodyclark wrote: Posted 2009/02/17 at 8:49 AM ET
          One word.. CULT!!
        karmanow wrote: Posted 2009/02/17 at 9:02 AM ET
          kyle__ wrote: " i learned some important things in aarc which i still practice today, even though i do not consider myself an addict/alcoholic."

          One more client who was treated at AARC despite not being an addict.
        karmanow wrote: Posted 2009/02/17 at 9:05 AM ET
          nolongeradesarateparent wrote: "Contrary to Fifth Estate’s portrayal, treating adolescent addicts is not a highly lucrative business."

          It is for AARC - they raise millions of $s and get millions more from parents. Peer staff are paid minimum wage. Where does the money go?
        Brainthorn wrote: Posted 2009/02/17 at 10:16 AM ET
          Drug and alcohol addicts can be extremely manipulative and tremendous liars.

          Hawk
        AARC Mum wrote: Posted 2009/02/17 at 10:18 AM ET
          As a parent who has been through AARC, I feel great sadness in the misrepresentation of its treatment plan. AARC does have a solution for families of drug and alcohol addicted children whether the children become sober or not. Freedom is found by teaching families how to deal with the disease and provides a growing support system of hundreds of loving and caring families who are willing to reach out and help others in need.

          As no program is perfect, there are likely failings within the system where possibly some situations have not been ascertained correctly, but why only the negative points of view were focussed on in this program is bewildering to me. AARC has provided so much hope to the families and children of AARC who recently celebrated their 400th graduation. How unfortunate the Fifth Estate chose not to speak to them or to celebrate their successes to at least provide fair investigative reporting.

          We blame our legal system and the police for failing us when drug gangsters run rampant. To cast a negative light on AARC which truly has a working solution for the war against drugs, we choose to lose. The solution is up to us – let us not lose the will to fight.
        karmanow wrote: Posted 2009/02/17 at 12:30 PM ET
          Brainthorn wrote: "Drug and alcohol addicts can be extremely manipulative and tremendous liars.

          Hawk"

          Good point! Are not the entire staff including Dean Vause alcoholics and addicts? I hope you include them in your assessment.
        karmanow wrote: Posted 2009/02/17 at 12:37 PM ET
          AARC Mum wrote:
          "but why only the negative points of view were focussed on in this program is bewildering to me."

          AARC put so many impossible pre-conditions on the Fifth Estate that were impossible to meet. As AARC has posted on Youtube, they have had plenty of fawning media coverage over the years. It is time some hard questions were asked.
          1. Where does all the money go?
          2. How many kids with almost no usage have been labeled as addicts, treated and have to live wit this stigma when it is not accurate. Only Peter Choate may know this (outside of AARC)
          3. How many clients have stayed sober? Really?
          4. How many treated graduates have suffered from this "treatment" and have sought help afterwards?
          5. Why is there no acredited pysycholgist on staff?

          AARC won't tell us.
        Gradof2005 wrote: Posted 2009/02/17 at 3:42 PM ET
          It is critical that those of you judging AARC by one news article realize how many lives they have helped. Have you noticed that almost all those comments that are pro-AARC come straight from those who have been there and know what its like? Have you actually met Rachel or are you only believing a TV show/ reading the news and now you decided to believe her? Look into what you are putting down before you decide to do it. AARC saved my whole family. Think about this... what would it take for you to put your family to put her in a long term intensive drug rehab? She made it there didn't she?
        jpeter wrote: Posted 2009/02/17 at 4:35 PM ET
          And many other posters who went through AARC have posted the trauma they received during the program and the time it took them to recover from the horros which occurred there. Why do you denounce Rachel as a liar but somehow expect everybody else to believe you? What Rachel said was backed up with medical documents. What AARC said about Rachel was backed up with absolutely nothing. I mean who are we to believe somebody who openly admits everything about their personal life which Rachel did or AARC who hides their practices behind closed doors and who in order to talk have be chased after?

          If you are going to defend AARC fine but do not do it by attacking the individuals who have raised these concerns. Do it by providing proof that none of this has occured or at the very basic level the process AARC would handle this. Stating AARC has a success rate of 80% based on a review performed by themselves does not cut it. Rachel did not go to the Fifth Estate with just her personal views but with actual outside documents supporting her statements. Lets remember Rachel was not the only person shown who claimed that they were sexually abuse well in AARC.
        Psy From Fornits wrote: Posted 2009/02/17 at 8:04 PM ET
          "Have you actually met Rachel or are you only believing a TV show/ reading the news and now you decided to believe her?"

          Yes, I've met her and I know her quite well. She's extremely credible. I was sitting next to her in the theater while we were watching Over the GW (a film on Kids of Bergen County) at the premiere in New York. I won't go into details, but her reactions alone to what was on the screen spoke volumes. I don't think I've ever seen somebody that upset by a film before. For her, it was too "close to home". I have no doubt that she went through a *great* deal of trauma at AARC.
        Jim Poushinsky wrote: Posted 2009/02/18 at 12:02 AM ET
          Without providing any details or confirmation from other family members Grad of 2005 wrote "AARC saved my whole family."

          This testimony sums up everything that's wrong with the alleged miracles performed at AARC! If you and your family were drowning and people pulled you out, you could say they saved your life. But when you are suffering from a mental or emotional illness of which addictions are a symptom, and you get better, it is not because someone else has cured you, it is because you have healed yourself!

          The same goes for members of your family. Give credit where it is due, to the Divine Spark the Creator put within each of us, and to yourself for letting your Higher Self guide you and heal you. Sure others can support you and help you along your healing path, but only you can heal yourself. AARC is wrong to make you believe the power to "save" is in their leader and his methods, rather than in yourself. That is the brainwashing technique of cults, or of the military who train recruits to kill on their command. Healing is about feeling compassion for yourself and others, not about cruelly forcing people to do someone else's bidding.

          I don't doubt that there are well-intentioned people at AARC, who support AARC, and who send young people to AARC. But the road to Hell is paved with good intentions! Sure some youths and families will get through this program by learning to please the powers that be, and claim it useful, just as so many abused children survive by learning to please and love their abusers, and by believing they were abused for their own good and for the good of others. That doesn't make abusive behaviour right! And it doesn't mean the "graduates" are cured or rehabilitated! I suspect follow-up studies would show graduates display some highly disturbed behaviour when they have power over others. I wouldn't want them babysitting my children!

          Also, claiming AARC helped some of you does not justify the harm done to others and their families who were forced to attend AARC's program. Emotional and mental abuse appears to be part of the program, and there are multiple allegations of physical and sexual abuse of clients. And nothing justifies the criminal offences of rape and torture that are alleged to have been covered up by staff at AARC!

          We've seen this "treatment" before in the native residential schools, in the Duplessis orphanages in Quebec, and in the Reform Schools. All are now closed. Close AARC!
        GaryDray wrote: Posted 2009/02/18 at 11:26 AM ET
          Just a little note from an ex-foster parent - weren't these children sent to this facility because they had very few life skills, were behaving erratically and had made themselves addicts or drug and alcohol abusers?
          Not to look too much like a totalitarian but I am pretty sure these kids had made their own beds by completely ruining their lives , the lives of others and exhibiting signs of psychosis .
          Not withstanding the allegations by a few that slipped through the cracks of discipline, these kids were an their way to becoming totally useless.
          As some wise and hardened person once said " To make an omelet, you sometimes have to crack a few eggs".
        Jim Poushinsky wrote: Posted 2009/02/18 at 12:18 PM ET
          Gary Dray says "To make an omelet, you sometimes have to crack a few eggs".

          That's an interesting analogy Gary, particularly for a retired farmer and therapeutic foster home parent like myself!

          If adolescents are indeed like eggs, I think we need to provide a warm and loving environment in which they can incubate and hatch and grow up to be healthy human beings.

          I'll leave you to explain your view that these human "eggs" need to be cracked and scrambled to make an omelette for the benefit of society.

          Makes me wonder how many "fried" graduates are out there?

          Thinking about this is enough to put me off eating eggs! If that's the best explanation AARC can come up with, closing the place is long overdue.
        Gradof2005 wrote: Posted 2009/02/18 at 1:21 PM ET
          Jim, How you turned my gratitude for AARC's intervention into brain washing from a cult is beyond me. So, I am going to leave it at this:
          My experience at AARC included more support and love than I could hope for. It would be a tragedy to take this away from any future clients. The program is hard at first but once I stopped fighting to be a drug addict and began my 12 step work amazing things happened for me. My home is no longer a battle field of lies and hurt. I am married with a beautiful son and friends I know would be there for me through anything. This is why I say they saved my family. If I never went there I might still be a "run away" doing drugs and not have my families support and love. Maybe there is a possibility that Rachel had a bad experience there but I strongly believe that "AARC" isn't to blame because they take strong precautions and it would be really hard for this to happen.
        Jim Poushinsky wrote: Posted 2009/02/18 at 4:59 PM ET
          Grad of 2005 says: "My experience at AARC included more support and love than I could hope for."

          For sure support and love is what is needed to heal oneself, and I am glad you found it, and with help were able to turn your life around. However, based on what others have endured, support and love at AARC is not given to everyone. Some are emotionally, mentally, physically, and sexually abused, and the fact that AARC denies this happens and covers up such allegations rather than reporting them to the proper authorities for investigation means AARC is unsafe for clients and needs to be closed.

          In it's place Alberta needs a proper residential facility for addicted youths that is part of the government funded Hospital and Medical care system, and properly accredited and supervised as a mental health program. That way the rights of all clients are protected, and only properly trained and qualified staff work with the youths and families attending there.

          You hinted at AARC's problems when you said "The program is hard at first but once I stopped fighting to be a drug addict and began my 12 step work amazing things happened for me." AARC assumes everybody who resists is fighting to remain an addict, when in fact some clients aren't addicts at all, and are fighting for their human rights and being ganged up on and denied their Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms right "not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual treatment or punishment". They may also be denied Charter rights that include "freedom of conscience and religion; freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication" as part of the AARC effort to force them to follow the treament steps.

          Charter rights apply to everyone "without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability".

          Can you honestly say that you never violated any of these Canadian Charter Rights while assisting in the treatment of newcomers in the AARC programs? If you had your own Charter Rights violated and have come to believe that was acceptable in your case, that still does not make it legal or acceptable to do it to others.

          You have the right to your belief that the AARC program saved you and your family, just as I have the right to believe you and all other clients would receive better help in a properly accredited Youth Treatment Residence run by the government.
        jpeter wrote: Posted 2009/02/18 at 5:43 PM ET
          Simple question. As AARC staff seem to be individuals who are former clients and as a result of being staff have power over current clients, has AARC ever hired any individual that they knew had a history of sexual abuse or sexual assault?
        Calgarian66 wrote: Posted 2009/02/19 at 5:30 AM ET
          2005 grad said: "I strongly believe that "AARC" isn't to blame because they take strong precautions and it would be really hard for this to happen.'

          I would really like to know what these strong precautions are? Because to me, the whole situation looks pretty dangerous.

          AARC claims to be an outpatient program. Yet the clients are sent home under the direct care and supervision of another client in the program who received a whole ONE WEEK of oldcomer training.

          Host home parents are instructed to ignore anything that happens in the host home. They're told that the clients are manipulative and will do anything to gain attention. Even screams and cries from the bedroom are to be ignored. Parents are told the newcomers are the oldcomers responsibilty and to only get involved if the oldcomer is busy and requests assistance.

          Kids in AARC are evaluated via the BASC test to be coded thru the school board. These clients are coded as a severe behavioral problem, "A danger to themselves and others" and "needing constant adult supervision" Yet these same kids are put in DIRECT UNSUPERVISED control over other kids in the program, some as young as 12 some as old as 21.

          Its very disturbing that many graduates kill people, themselves or other horrible crimes.

          Like that guy who killed a prostitute in Vancouver, or the ones who murdered that taxi driver, one guy beat his grandmother to death with a broomstick handle, another currently doing time for armed robbery of a liquor store and these are just to name a few.

          These were all GRADUATES of the program, supposed to be all better, some worked at the program as COUNSELORS rehabilitating YOUR CHILD.

          These same people before they even graduated were once an "oldcomer" at AARC having complete control over YOUR CHILDREN in a locked bedroom! YOUR CHILDREN have NO avenue to report abuse, they can't even tell you, because you're not allowed to talk to them.

          But even if they do try to report abuse, who is going to believe them anyway? Supposedly they are just lyin' druggies. Even if they finally get the guts to come forward 10+ years later, they're just "liars" according to Vause.

          But please post the precautions, I'd really like to know what AARC is doing to ensure the safety of YOUR CHILDREN.
        Grad of 1998 wrote: Posted 2009/02/19 at 7:06 PM ET
          We can't let them keep getting away with this. They had me brain-washed for awhile, but I always knew what was going on was weird and damaging. It wasn't until working there that I really realized how out of control and abusive the peer counselors were.

          My biggest hardship is the fact that I am not actually a drug addict or an alcoholic. That did years worth of damage, they have never released a kid after realizing that maybe they aren't an alcoholic after all, NEVER.

          I knew a girl that learned she was pregnant while a newcomer. The problem was, she didn't get her routine "doctor's appt" until over a couple months or so. By the time she found out she was pregnant is was too late to abort. So naturally AARC decided her fate for her on that one. She was to give the child up for adoption. Imagine the stress and emotions she was dealing with just with that. I also strongly believe that she was not and could not be an alcoholic. My heart always went out to her.

          Dean's answer has always remained the same, we are all Liars. Hum. I definitely lied my ass off to get through his cult of a program. I am all grown up now and not afraid to say so. Liars we are not. Not about this. He could at least has some decency to admit they have some investigating to do, or that these acts of any kind of abuse are completely unacceptable. He seems to be acting just as he is, GUILTY AS CHARGED.

          WORD OF ADVICE DEAN: Get some new jargon, at least perhaps then you might sound smart.
        Raine76 wrote: Posted 2009/02/20 at 10:30 PM ET
          I am a former graduate and staff member. I graduated about 15 years ago now and worked on staff for about 3 years. I am torn still with the way that I feel about AARC. I do believe there is a huge need for long term treatment in Canada for our drug addicted youth, although I do not neccesarily think AARC is that place.

          AARC needs to get over the huge ego and take a look at things that need to be changed. I saw many kids go through treatment that had only used a handful of times, the intake process is just a one sheet checklist. All of us were paraded around to numerous fund raising events...and yes I bought into all of it. Anonymity is unheard of there. In fact when I finally left AARC and got a job outside of treatment, they sent brochures with my pictures on them to my new boss...I was pretty ticked at that.

          As a peer counsellor I ran raps, girls raps, did treatment plans...and really I have to say did not really know what I was doing sometimes, especially in girls rap where we dealt with sensitive issues such as rape, and abuse...this is where I really believe AARC needs qualified staff...and yes I know some of the staff there have went and got some certificates, strangely enough the staff that works there were people I went to treatment with 15 years ago, I can't believe they have never left! That in itself is unhealthy. When I left treatment I found it very hard to adapt to the real world...I thought everyone outside of AARC was bad, or addicted, etc....it took me awhile to deprogram myself. I do not believe that AARC should be shut down, but I do believe that they need to be accountable and make changes.
        AARC Survivor wrote: Posted 2009/02/21 at 9:38 PM ET
          Following is a link to the AARC Survivor's Letter Requesting Action and Acknowledgment

        http://www.petitiononline.com/AARCSurv/petition.html

        and a link to contact information to become involved in a lawsuite against AARC

        http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27026[/list]
        Mike199722 wrote: Posted 2009/05/29 at 2:28 AM ET
          i had a very bad experience at a recovery house in british columbia. it was the most terrifying and confusing experience of my life.

          its very difficult to explain what goes on in these places, because most people have never been institutionalized in this sort of environment.

          - imagine for 5-8 months you are under the absolute power of an organization.
          - imagine that this organization sees the 12 steps as its personal religion, and they are bent on making you accept their worldview.
          - imagine that the organization, because they are government funded, feels they can act with impunity and without accountability.
          - imagine that you are weak, ashamed, and vulnerable and scared.
          - imagine that you are 15 years old.

          there is something very wrong with this picture, do you agree?

          the people that run these places are 12-step fundamentalists. they believe that life is confined within the boundries of the twelve steps.

          patients are forced to submit to the twelve steps. this is done with fear - 'if you ever do drugs again, you will die' and shame 'you know, if you begin to think like us maybe you parents will forgive you' and manipulation 'look at that guy, he thinks like us, look at how good he's doing!' these are just examples, the reality of the experience is much more intense and frightening.

          its hard to explain, but the way the put it all together, you slowly begin to give uo your own beliefs and accepot theirs, almost out of a sense of self preservation! over time, you do begin to submit.

          these places need to shut down, an alternative needs to be found. i am glad that the AARC complainents are having thier voices heard.

          I SALUTE THEIR COURAGE AND THEIR STRENGTH!


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