Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > News Items
blog of a program parent
FemanonFatal2.0:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
--- Quote from: "NeilW" ---Look, Katie isn’t in prison. It’s a program.
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Aside from the word, what's the difference?
Oh... I see. There is due process for those sent to prison. They also have contact with the outside world an access to an attorney. I see. In prison they aren't trying day in and day out to break you down and strip you of your identity.
I know quite a few people who have been to Juvie and a program. Guess which one they say is worse, unanimously?
--- End quote ---
100% agree. You cant seriously think that the program is any better than jail... its not, its much much worse. despite what Psy mentioned that there is no due process and the systematic abuse is much much more prominent, at least in jail you are an adult who has already lived your life, mistakes and all. The teen years are so delicate, the years when the kid starts to realize who they are, separate from their parents and form the basis for the rest of their lives. Subjecting an impressionable teen to an extended period of duress is in no medical or moral sense acceptable. I dont understand how, even in the deepest pit of ignorance and denial, that these kinds of tactics are assumed to be any good for any reason to a human who is in such a delicate phase in their life.
I can understand that some teens need an intervention, and specifically because of these "impressionable years" but If I were running a center for adolescents I would not be providing the same program for a child with a "behavioral problem" as I would a child with a serious drug addiction. The problem is that adolescence has become demonized and criminalized and kids who are simply learning life lessons are being seen as having serious problems. I don't understand how a child who does not do drugs and does not have any significant mental problems should need any "help" especially when the basis of that "help" is considered punishment or so called "Tough Love".
I don't understand why tough love has to be the answer to adolescent behavior... There is no evidence to show that this method does any long term good. Sure, if you frighten a child into behaving they will but it wont help them with their decision making process when they are older. In fact evidence would suggest that instilling the obedient mind state in a child early on only leads them to be more susceptible to fall victim to peer pressure and abuse in the future. Why is it that in order to keep a kid off drugs you cant just separate them from their environment and educate them about the real world? Why do conditions have to be so harsh? What is the point of breaking someone down in order to "help" them to change? and what justifies abuse having any hand in this process? the answer is because these programs are not teaching these kids anything, they are simply beating them into submission to a doctrine that is immoral and unnatural. In most cases they are simply teaching children to be cruel to each other, and utilizing peer pressure to accept and inflict misery as "treatment". All aspects of this system are wrong, not just the jumpsuits, especially considering that they are just one of the thousands of ways that the program breaks you down to a miserable existence.
I know it takes a half way intelligent person to be able to link the tactics used in programs to the long term negative effects (consider doing some research on cptsd) but even the dumbest of the dumb are able to recognize that demoralizing a child is not a medically or morally accepted form of rehabilitation. In fact the only psychological basis that these methods can be traced back to is Thought Reform, which is recognized as a form of torture. There are other, healthy and progressive ways to encourage change in a teens life and until these programs denounce the "Tough Love" system I think its safe to assume they are just being abusive in the name of behavior modification (or more appropriately in the name of a paycheck). I don't understand why these parents aren't able to recognize that the mere existence of these draconian methods is only evidence of incompetence. Maybe if the programs hired professionals instead of basing their program model on the system's created by their now defunct cult-like predecessors, this wouldn't really be a problem now would it? but I must add that in a program that was centered on a helpful, healthy and professional environment, No one would be in jumpsuits, orange or otherwise.
FemanonFatal2.0:
--- Quote from: "Guest" ---
--- Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0" ---I just don't understand how they can justify this treatment when only rarely does the ends justify the means.
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The end never justifies the means.
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I actually didn't mean it like that, I was referring to the opinion of former clients, as in people rarely deem the experience worth the outcome.
Anonymous:
--- Quote from: "NeilW" ---So if the program wanted the kids to feel like lowly prisoners in gulags they would put them in chains and make them wear stripes. But they don’t.
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So what is the purpose?
--- Quote ---No they are not and either do programs. The kids are not prisoners.
--- End quote ---
So then the kids are free to leave or to call a state agency at any time, right? Or in the alternative, they've received a diagnosis that states they are an immediate danger to themselves or others....because that's the criteria for committing someone.
--- Quote ---So you feel everyone who works to help kids and find better ways to make their lives better is a torturer.
--- End quote ---
No, just the ones who use these treatment modalities. The ones who admit kids into their program without due process. The ones who use level systems, where the progress of inmates is controlled by other inmates as well as staff (who are quite frequently former inmates). The ones who feel confrontation breeds a breakthrough. The ones who won't allow children to speak to their parents unmonitored.
--- Quote --- You judge programs by the color of their clothes. Just because it didn’t work out for you doesn’t mean it doesn’t for others. Sorry you cant see beyond the colors
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It's not about the colors, but you know that.
TheWho:
--- Quote --- Oh, I see. You are not saying that WWASP and ASPEN do not hold young adults captive. You are saying holding a human being prisoner "doesn't count" when the human being is under 21.
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It all counts. You need to experience it from the childs point of view. I drive past one of our local Gulags every day and look at all the little noses pressed against the fence. They are in there for various reasons, some have both parents who decided to pursue money rather than parenting, others come from a single parent back ground. Each one has a unique story. What they have in common is the wish that the fence could come down so that they could run free.
Another time at the Zoo, I experienced a group of high schoolers who were walking thru the Zoo and they were all forced to wear bright colored tee shirts. I could see how humiliated they must have been being stripped of their autonomy and being forced to be part of a group, with repeated brain washing of “Stay together for your own good”, “Check in with your assigned buddy”. I am sure they all attended Auswitchz academy and had very little self esteem left.
--- Quote ---Just curious, If you raped a 20 year olds after her parents asked you to, since it wouldnt be rape because she doesn't have her "freedoms," what do you call it?
--- End quote ---
If you rape anyone it is a crime. It would also be a crime to walk over to “First steps academy” and open the gate to let all the toddlers run free into the world. If I walked over to the teenagers on their class trip and removed their tee shirts and gave them a chance to chose their own colors they would jump at the chance, but I am sure I would end up being arrested.
--- Quote ---Youre like a Nazi who thinks he really isn't "murdering" Jews because you can't muder a Jew anymore than you can "murder" bacteria. And you can't "imprison" a 20 year old anymore than you can imprison bacteria, right, Who?
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Wow, now I am the nazi!. You can murder Bacteria by using antibiotics. Some believe you can murder a baby by taking the morning after pill. So it is your choice of what you want to believe and how you define it for yourself. Pro choice or abortionist... which one sounds nicer.
--- Quote ---"When slaves begin to accept their role and identify with their master, constant physical bondage becomes unnecessary. They come to perceive their situation not as a deliberate action taken to harm them in particular but as part of the normal, if regrettable, scheme of things."
I guess that "masters" can come to see what they do as normal, too.
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Exactly right brother. That is why daycares have fences and middle schools do not because they kids are condition by years of internment and indoctrination not to run because the consequences are too high. If the kids resist this social norm then they need to be reprocessed and placed into programs until they comply or they age out of the system and be held accountable by their own actions within the judicial system.
Miss Antsy Pam:
--- Quote from: "psy" ---
I know quite a few people who have been to Juvie and a program. Guess which one they say is worse, unanimously?
--- End quote ---
My son was in both...juvie (multiple times) and a program. He would go back to juvie instead of a program without a moments hesitation. He was detained for a short time at the adult jail here in LA County and said it was like looking thru the gates of hell.
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