Passages Malibu

[Anonymous]

I don't necessarily have an "anti-program" bias, in fact I am just one looking for the solution. The Penn & Teller video Psy or someone posted elsewhere had a very good point - none of these programs seem to adjust themselves according to results they see with their "graduates". CEDU would adjust itself according to their in-house population I think but once you were gone, you were gone. I am strongly interested in those denying the disease concept because we now have strong evidence that it is true. I am very involved politically in decriminalization because American constantly fills their prisons with people due to drug charges (I don't maintain that someone who is on drugs and kills or steals should be "forgiven" obviously). But what do we do with these people? You can say drug use is ok, you seem to be ok doing it, but there are many seriously screwed up people too. How are they justly to be handled? Does the state open up a bunch of treatment centers and how are these to be run? AA/NA? I don't find much support for those here, but what is the answer? Manson says you put the temptation in front of someone and tell them not to do it, they'll do it. Do we take a state and go to whatever lengths to insure there are no drugs there, censor the media and send addicts there to live otherwise normal lives - no records or prison terms? I don't know.

I think you are all trying hard to apply your anti-program bias towards aspects of life which are not compatible with this analogy. In doing so it makes you appear less than credible, or to be more blunt, kind of kooky.

Now I know about what goes on in programs, and I know what goes in AA meetings. The two are completely different. I'm not seeing restraints leading to suffocation happening in AA when someone chooses not to share, or go on a five mile hike. I haven't heard about stress positions in AA meetings, or anything that could be viewed as abusive in the realm of what goes on inside of unregulated programs.

In perpetuating this one-size-fits-all interpretation to all of life's problems it only harms the cause and continues to alienates any new participants waiting on the sidelines.

The goals of some here are lofty. I'd be happy with a cessation to the murders and forced abductions and incarcerations. I'll leave the kinda-program-like, but-not abusive stuff to you all.

I'm sorry but I have to go find a forum filled with more... rational thought. The conspiracies and paranoia emanating from Fornits recently do not fit with what I'm trying to do. I wish you all good luck in your ventures to enlighten the world on the dangers of AA, but let's try not to forget the pressing issue at hand while doing so.

Yes, the addiction is a disease. There are many ways to approach, no way is 100%, no method is completely understood or without its detractors. I lean toward a holistic approach, myself. With a support group, such as AA , included

[Oscar]

As I see it the critical article I have seen is an attack made by supporters of step systems.

In Denmark the official Denmark has made an attack against the faith based programs. The Minnesota treatment in various forms is the most widespread step program in use.

The best result are made by treatment of the relatives. Projects like U-turn in Copenhagen has analyzed the treatment industry in the states and they found that underneath all the fine marketing the day-to-day "treatment" is done by either peers or lowpaid staff to cut costs. Please point to a program where all the staff is qualified. I havn't found it.

So U-turn teach the parents to be mini-therapists. Instead of judging cuttings, drug use and the few cases of binge-drinking which exist so they can get their own children to talk with them rather than shout at them. The result is that most of the drug-treatment remain out-patient, which is cheaper.

No home contract. Zero-tolorance creates secrets, but the parents have to make a statement rather than being afraid of raising the issue.

Let me be clear about one thing. I don't like drug use. I prefer alcohol. It is safer because all alcohol sold in our shop is controlled and checked to see if the standard is upheld. Drugs could be safer it they were sold under control, but they are not. Pushers mix all kind of stuff into the drugs to create more profit and some of the stuff are poison that kills people. That doesn't mean that one should not have respect for alcohol. Alcohol should not be a habit. It should not be something you need to drink in order to do something.

I believe that there should be a treatment industry. I don't care how people can free themselves of an addiction as long as it is done while perserving the clients  dignity. Last but not least I believe that 99% of all this treatment can be done out-patient, if the relatives choose to take the time to learn about the problem rather than shutting down.