Author Topic: Wow, obama is going to win  (Read 21007 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #225 on: February 01, 2009, 07:25:53 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
I've just invented a product. It's a secret recepie that only I know. It cures all illnesses. Now I will market it as 97% sucessfull. It's highly addictive and just might kill you, but those who it works for... they swear by it!

Point being that you're reversing the burden of proof. In order to advertise something as working, it actually has to work. Most of the staff at these places are unqualified and most of the "therapy" amounts to cult-derived quackery. Like snake oil, it's some powerful shit... but it doesn't necessarily mean it's helpful. It just means it's popular, which can be for all sorts of reasons, such as an illusion of efficacy.

Do parents ask you about effectiveness? What do you say?
No I am not reversing any proof.  Parents ask me about the effectiveness and I give them information on individual schools or programs.  I tell them that the key is find a program which is a good match.  Which is one of the keys to success.  I really believe many of the kids here who had a bad experience were placed in the wrong program.  If they had the advantages and information we have today they might not be here complaining about how poorly they did.  Many kids have problems with authority and if you match them up with the wrong program it could be trouble for them as an example.



Quote
@Guest: Please stop posting those FFS testimonials over and over again. We get the point, but it interferes with dialogue and Kathy is unlikely to care since she refers there and has already implied she sees such testimonial as untruthful and/or biased.

Why not ask her a question instead, such as "how do you dismiss all these allegations of abuse when they all describe similar occurrences?"
I have read most of them.  I don’t dismiss them.  Most of the problems have been resolved or are being worked on, I could sit and post success stories all day long on fornits but I don’t think it would change your minds either.  I think they would be dismissed out of hand.
I don’t represent other educational consultants here with my views, just myself.

There is a football party in the other room.  I am being called in, probably to make a dip LOL.  I will check back in awhile.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #226 on: February 01, 2009, 07:36:49 PM »
Quote from: "KathyS"
Its a learned language that is taught here.

That is true, and one reason why I don't use those terms.  Even so, what they described when first coming here, regardless of descriptive language used, remains constant.

Quote
Look at some of the regulars early posts and then the way they speak now.

And me?

Quote
Quote
Well. I've never met a parent whose first stop has been Fornits or any other forum allowing criticism of the industry. It's a matter of search keywords. Google "troubled teen" and see how many critical site you find. A parent doesn't end up on Fornits unless they have already contacted an ed-con, is considering a particular school, and has googled that particular school.
You avoid my question.

I did?  Your question was a two parter "Why wouldn’t you recommend that parents visit strugglingteens.com so that they can see both sides of the issue? You told me that they already have this information, but how do you know?"

Part 1, why wouldnt I?  because they've already seen other sites.  Part 2: how do I know that?  see above.  I've never seen an exception to that.  I wish I could intercept parents earlier, but the "troubled teen" keyword is proving elusive.  In that hypothetical case, I would probably recommend parents reseach the other side, but I would not refer to any particular site as it would violate my no-referrals policy (conflict of interest, among other reasons... I can elaborate if you wish.).

Quote
Quote
That question is leading. See my point above on the effectiveness of residential treatment.
Avoided another.

Your question was leading.  "Doesnt it ever bother you that a parent may come onto fornits and decide not to get help for their child and that child and family would suffer because of it?" includes the words "would suffer".  Implied is that if a parent decides not to place, they and their child will suffer.  I do not agree that would happen if a parent did not place (other than would naturally) and thus it could not possibly bother me.  That's why your question was leading, and why I referred back to the effectiveness.

Quote
Quote
Yes, i'm aware of that. All that proves shows to me is that parents cant just look at watchlists or one organization to consider a program "safe".
Yes, the word “bad” or “Good” is very subjective each person or website has their own interpretation and they may be wrong.   I remember a certain person jumping down my throat for not referring parents to isaccorp.  A parent reviewing isaccorp would find it safe to send their child to FFS

Not true.  ISAC is quite clear that the industry as a whole is not safe and quite clear that just because a program is not on their watchlist does not make it safe.  Otherwise they woudn't need the "warning signs" and so forth to give further advice.

Quote
where fornits describes it as the worse place on the face of this planet.

If it's really that much of a big deal to you, I can call up Shelby Earnshaw and work with her to get FFS on their watchlist.  Jon's testimony and another sworn statement corroborating it might be enough to do the trick (I'd have to check with Shelby and see what the deal is with that)

Quote
That is why parents seek out Educational Consultants (as they should) to guide them thru this mess.

Or into danger.  You already admitted that it's impossible for a parent to know if an educational consultant is taking referral fees (kickbacks).

Quote
The better schools and programs will survive.  My boss says a  few good mom and pop places will be lost.  But in a bad economy it cant be helped.  Maybe they can get some of the bail out money.

I thought you were opposed to such goverment interference or aid?  I mean... you start out on the thread talking about accountability and responsibility, yet you want government welfare for programs?  All hail the nanny state! (where it's convenient)

Quote
Michael we are on opposite sides of the fence on this issue.  The only difference is I am open to the people I talk to and provide information from both sides.  You tend to think you have all the answers so you withold info which goes against your thinking.

I am open to both sides of the issue but I have had the unique experience of actually being in a program.  That's one thing you don't have and never could.  I don't have all the answers, but I have looked at both sides and come to my own conclusion.  Whether information in the future might shift that conclusion, I can't say.  I'm not a fortune teller, but I find it unlikely.  I also don't withhold information from parents as you allege.

Quote
I have met educational consultants who believe, like yourself, that parents should only be given filtered information which will persuade them to have their child placed.

But that's precisely what you did with Marcy.  Need we go over that again.  You sent her to a few select websites (with a referral code!), attempted to scare her off fornits by implying her identity was not secure, and invited her to an "open discussion" group which, you've demonstrated is not really that open at all.  You also admitted that you do not refer to ISACcorp because they have schools on their watchlist that you refer to.

I encourage parents to do their own research, but I do not refer them to specific sites.  Is no me job.  It's your job.  What you're paid for.  I'm not paid at all, and in order for parents to trust me, I can't be sending them to specific commercial (not purely informational) sites.  I could be getting paid for such referrals. How would a parent know?

If you want to create a pro-industry site that is purely informational, advertises for no programs, and refers to no ed-cons.  I'll refer parents there to see the "other side".  Until then, I give them my "anti-sales-pitch" and encourage them to research the other side for themselves (which they, in my experience, have already seen).

There are all sorts of issues besides just that one as to why I don't refer parents to pro-industry sites.  There are legal liability issues, for instance, such as under the lanham act, where I could be sued for unfair competition (criticising one school while referring to a competitor or competing service).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #227 on: February 01, 2009, 07:43:50 PM »
Quote from: "KathyS"
Quote from: "psy"
I've just invented a product. It's a secret recepie that only I know. It cures all illnesses. Now I will market it as 97% sucessfull. It's highly addictive and just might kill you, but those who it works for... they swear by it!

Point being that you're reversing the burden of proof. In order to advertise something as working, it actually has to work. Most of the staff at these places are unqualified and most of the "therapy" amounts to cult-derived quackery. Like snake oil, it's some powerful shit... but it doesn't necessarily mean it's helpful. It just means it's popular, which can be for all sorts of reasons, such as an illusion of efficacy.

Do parents ask you about effectiveness? What do you say?
No I am not reversing any proof.  Parents ask me about the effectiveness and I give them information on individual schools or programs.  I tell them that the key is find a program which is a good match.  Which is one of the keys to success.  I really believe many of the kids here who had a bad experience were placed in the wrong program.  If they had the advantages and information we have today they might not be here complaining about how poorly they did.  Many kids have problems with authority and if you match them up with the wrong program it could be trouble for them as an example.



Quote
@Guest: Please stop posting those FFS testimonials over and over again. We get the point, but it interferes with dialogue and Kathy is unlikely to care since she refers there and has already implied she sees such testimonial as untruthful and/or biased.

Why not ask her a question instead, such as "how do you dismiss all these allegations of abuse when they all describe similar occurrences?"
I have read most of them.  I don’t dismiss them.  Most of the problems have been resolved or are being worked on, I could sit and post success stories all day long on fornits but I don’t think it would change your minds either.  I think they would be dismissed out of hand.
I don’t represent other educational consultants here with my views, just myself.

There is a football party in the other room.  I am being called in, probably to make a dip LOL.  I will check back in awhile.


Acutally, human-trafficer, you could not post "sword testimonies" from survivor about how great FFS is all day. As JC said, even the sucessfully brainwashed kids, under questioning assented that FFS tortured kids.

i have noticed you have not taken JC's invitatin to post at CAFETY where people expert on FFS could respond to your BS claims with more knowledge than can we. Why aim more negative attention at Family Foundation School cultic-gulag, right?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #228 on: February 01, 2009, 07:51:25 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
 @ Guest can you please stop posting survivor testimony from FFS. Kathy has said she doesn't beleive it, and it interferes with the discussion

There’s no discussion to be had.

This entity doesn’t “understand” the diff between parents asking their kids to help do the dishes and an institution that forces its "patient"-prisoners to do all the maintenance for the institution while being forced to run in place, on pain of beatings, manhandling, peer denunciation, extended imprisonment, isolation, being wrapped in a blanket until one’s eyes “pop out,” and otherwise tortured until they break and concede to forced labor, the same way as prisoners of Thought Reform Prisons or Gulags broke and conceded.



This entity earns money from human trafficking. It deliberately exposes kids to systematic psychological and physical torture with a near identical paradigm to the Thought Reform prisons of Asia.

Do you really think you are going to get to the place where this entity will say, “Oh, hey. Well I have read dozens of accounts of systematic torture at FFS resulting in its innocent victims being physiologically damaged for years if not their entire lives and that don’t bother me. Tony & Betty Argiros are working on their issues, BUT that’s GREAT analogy you just made…Maybe I should change my ways.”

Hey, KathS, what about taking personal responsibility? Why should not Tony and Betty Argriros be in prison, right now, instead of working on their issues?

Tell you what. What's your name? Let's start there. Something tells me you know deep down your behavior is abhorant and don't want it linked ot your name.

Psy, This entity is Who2 here for damage control, or for some weird emotional need for self justification.

Why don’t you do some good and bring up the info on Aspen Education and other places it mentioned instead of serving its perverted desires?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #229 on: February 01, 2009, 07:57:23 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "KathyS"
Its a learned language that is taught here.

That is true, and one reason why I don't use those terms.  Even so, what they described when first coming here, regardless of descriptive language used, remains constant.

.

Actually, bitch, youre the one speaking the "learned Language." Your words "intervention" instead of imprisonment, "escort" instead of kidnappers, "school" instead of gulag or internement camp are deliberate constructs of your Synannon forebearers who applied euphanisms to their trade to hide their actuality.

I'm not going to post the defintions of gulag, torture, again. You've made it clear. You are going with your personal defition on these words. You chose to call a man forcefully inserting his penis into child's vagina "class," I chose its English term "rape." I chose represetnational reality and truth over your kafka-esque NIGHTMARE.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline psy

  • Administrator
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
    • http://homepage.mac.com/psyborgue/
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #230 on: February 01, 2009, 08:11:04 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "KathyS"
Its a learned language that is taught here.

That is true, and one reason why I don't use those terms.  Even so, what they described when first coming here, regardless of descriptive language used, remains constant.

.

Actually, bitch, youre the one speaking the "learned Language." Your words "intervention" instead of imprisonment, "escort" instead of kidnappers, "school" instead of gulag or internement camp are deliberate constructs of your Synannon forebearers who applied euphanisms to their trade to hide their actuality.

True. But when talkign to parents, she has a point.  they'll tune out at "kidnapping".  Why not, instead of using either "escort" or "kidnapping", say "forcefully taken away to a school in restraints, which can be a terrifying, degrading and humiliating experience for a teen".  Let a parent decide what word to put to it.

You can stop using their loaded language, yes, but it doesn't mean you have to invent your own, even if it is more accurate.  That being said...  it's just my opinion.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
Sue Scheff Truth - Blog on Sue Scheff
"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #231 on: February 01, 2009, 08:15:36 PM »
Human traficker: here is the work schedule of Bethal Boys Academy, a WWASP Gulag, a gulag you "referred" M to


WORK
1. Refusal to work is regarded as misconduct.
2. All cadets’ will be assigned to work crews under the supervision of an instructor.[/color]
3. Work will consist of a variety of maintenance, custodial and construction assignments.
1. All cadets’ for specific work crews will depart with the work crew supervisor. They will carry tools,
toolboxes, materials....
5. Work will generally be scheduled Monday through Friday from 0800 hours until sunset.
6. Workers are strictly prohibited from unauthorized contacts with non-Camp personnel while outside thefence. Violation will result in immediate disciplinary action.[/color]
7. Workers must remain at their assigned work site and under the supervision of staff.
Any unscheduled or unauthorized departure or absence from the work site or vehicle will be considered an
escape subject to criminal prosecution.

8. While working around the main complex, no cadet will leave the place of work without authorization
from the work or crew supervisor, nor without a pass properly signed indicating the destination and the
time the cadet left work.
10. All work crew cadets’ are to follow the directions of the drill instructor or maintenance repairman.
12. Each cadet working will carry his share of the job and cannot quit working until the job has been
completed and inspected, unless otherwise authorized.

13. Any cadet on a work crew may be required by the crew supervisor to do any job relating to the general
duties of the work crew.
15. While on a work crew, cadets’ must remain in sight of the work or crew supervisors at all times and
obey all orders.


 A. ESCAPE - A person commits an offense if he unlawfully removes himself from official
detention following temporary leave granted for a specific purpose or limited period, or leaves his
work site unauthorized.
B. Permitting or Facilitating Escape — Any person who knowingly causes or facilitates an
escape is committing an offense. If you aid another cadet in any way in an escape, you will be
charged with aiding an escape and conspiracy.





WORKSITE RULES
4. Follow each order given. Your work performance is evaluated daily.

WORKSITE SAFETY
You will be familiar with the operation of all tools you are using and must use safety goggles, gloves, hard hat and ear protection when appropriate. If you should become injured and unable to work, it may become necessary to return you to a correctional institution and assign another cadet in your place.

And when they are not working, they are marching or excersizing. How well and happy they are to "perform" their work and exercize, how "sincerely" they articulate they were saved by wwasp and from now on will be "instictively obedient" will determine "how soon they" are allowed to leave.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #232 on: February 01, 2009, 08:54:21 PM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "KathyS"
Its a learned language that is taught here.

That is true, and one reason why I don't use those terms.  Even so, what they described when first coming here, regardless of descriptive language used, remains constant.

.

Actually, bitch, youre the one speaking the "learned Language." Your words "intervention" instead of imprisonment, "escort" instead of kidnappers, "school" instead of gulag or internement camp are deliberate constructs of your Synannon forebearers who applied euphanisms to their trade to hide their actuality.

True. But when talkign to parents, she has a point.  they'll tune out at "kidnapping".  Why not, instead of using either "escort" or "kidnapping", say "forcefully taken away to a school in restraints, which can be a terrifying, degrading and humiliating experience for a teen".  Let a parent decide what word to put to it.

You can stop using their loaded language, yes, but it doesn't mean you have to invent your own, even if it is more accurate.  That being said...  it's just my opinion.

PSY, I think perhaps you don't understand what "loaded language" means.

In short, it’s a "language" intentionally designed to confuse about reality. For ex, one cult has its adherents refer to parents as "EvilFleshers." The idea is to install the beleif in adherents their parents are evil, regardless of the actual moral nature of the parent.

This is a tactic to isolate adherents from their familial group thereby increasing emotional dependence on a cult-leader, for the ultimate purpose of his increased control over the adherents’ existence and finances. It is “confusing about reality” in that not all parents are actually evil, and “deceptive”  because the greater purpose of the word is not to bring greater understanding to a concept but increased power to a leader.

Secondly, “loaded language” exists where so many “English words” are substituted by alternate cult-speak, that it traps the individual within the cult because it becomes necessary for her to mentally translate cult-speak back into “English” to communicate with non-cult members. Then a cult member is “trapped” within the cult, for the reaons similar to how you’d be “trapped” with english speakers in France: because you can’t talk to anyone else.

Substitute language is also used to mentally confuse a victim because we “think” through language and stealing our “language” steals our thoughts. For ex, WWASP, one of the programs KathyS, the human trafficker “refers” to forces its captives in one of its locales to speak only Spanish. The physiological difficulty, frustration, and inability and subsequent mental anguish us part of the thought reform process.


None of the above is applicable to my use of appropriate terminology, whether or not it is jarring.

Nazis called concentration camps “work camps,”

I am going to call gulags kidnapping and torture “gulags” “kidnappings” and “torture” even if a human trafficker prefers I use the term “escort” “school” and “therapy.” I am going to call concentration camps “concentration camps” even if Nazis prefer I call them “Lollipop Joy Parks.”

Part of the con is getting kids and parents to think of the cultic-gulag experience as participation in a "school." I'm not hurting people by assisting with that con.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Miss Antsy Pam

  • Posts: 93
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Informed Consent....
« Reply #233 on: February 02, 2009, 08:33:40 AM »
Quote from: "KathyS"
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
 Pam the parent here now....


On another note:  Seems I have been labeled a murderer, accused of being Martha and now have been downgraded to thewho status.  Thank you very much.

Not by ME you haven't.  Welcome to the club of "name calling"!  I have been called LOTS of things/names on these forums - rarely do I take it personally.  In case you have not noticed, PARENTS are not EXACTLY welcomed here either.  However, I am like a bad penny that keeps coming back for more...such as yourself.  The personal comments about your life or current profession are just that...comments.  

Whether or not you are TheWho is not relevant to me since that occurred before my time on Fornits.  From what I have seen so far is that you are an Ed-Con that places kids in programs or school based on the information you find relevant after interviewing the family.  I am happy to hear that you have 73 facilities on your DNR list.  Maybe a quick email to ISAC would helped get your lists synced?   We don't want those other 10 schools lost in the fray!

I guess it would be too much to ask you to list the schools that your company has on their DNR list?  If you don't ask, you never know!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
United we stand....divided....we fail!

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Informed Consent....
« Reply #234 on: February 02, 2009, 01:24:11 PM »
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
Quote from: "KathyS"
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"
 Pam the parent here now....


On another note:  Seems I have been labeled a murderer, accused of being Martha and now have been downgraded to thewho status.  Thank you very much.

Not by ME you haven't.  Welcome to the club of "name calling"!  I have been called LOTS of things/names on these forums - rarely do I take it personally.  In case you have not noticed, PARENTS are not EXACTLY welcomed here either.  However, I am like a bad penny that keeps coming back for more...such as yourself.  The personal comments about your life or current profession are just that...comments.  

Whether or not you are TheWho is not relevant to me since that occurred before my time on Fornits.  From what I have seen so far is that you are an Ed-Con that places kids in programs or school based on the information you find relevant after interviewing the family.  I am happy to hear that you have 73 facilities on your DNR list.  Maybe a quick email to ISAC would helped get your lists synced?   We don't want those other 10 schools lost in the fray!

I guess it would be too much to ask you to list the schools that your company has on their DNR list?  If you don't ask, you never know!

hi pam. the only person who call you names here are trolls. You are not comprable to a human traficker in any fashion. Glad to hear she has 73 on her do not refer list? That's a good thing when it refers to Aspen and FFS and others from which you have testimony like the above? Please listen to yourself.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #235 on: February 02, 2009, 01:50:54 PM »
My response sounds like I am mad, but I am not.  Its just the way it came out.  Its so hard to express temper or not express it on these boards.  I guess that is what those emotion smiles are for.  
Quote from: "psy"
If it's really that much of a big deal to you, I can call up Shelby Earnshaw and work with her to get FFS on their watchlist. Jon's testimony and another sworn statement corroborating it might be enough to do the trick (I'd have to check with Shelby and see what the deal is with that)
No, not a big deal.  But if they maintain a watch list then those places which are not on it would indicate they are safe regardless of their feelings about the industry.  Isaccorp agrees with us on this place.  If FFS was added then we would disagree on it.
Quote
Or into danger. You already admitted that it's impossible for a parent to know if an educational consultant is taking referral fees (kickbacks).
Unless they ask or the agency tells them.  Almost every parent that I end up speaking to asks me what is in it for me.  Ifyou are in business even if it is non profit the people are getting paid.
Quote
Maybe they can get some of the bail out money.

I thought you were opposed to such goverment interference or aid? I mean... you start out on the thread talking about accountability and responsibility, yet you want government welfare for programs? All hail the nanny state! (where it's convenient)
Sorry, I was joking.  Seems everyone has their hand out for a piece.  I heard the govt is even considering bailing out the porn industry.
Quote
But that's precisely what you did with Marcy. Need we go over that again. You sent her to a few select websites (with a referral code!), attempted to scare her off fornits by implying her identity was not secure, and invited her to an "open discussion" group which, you've demonstrated is not really that open at all. You also admitted that you do not refer to ISACcorp because they have schools on their watchlist that you refer to.

I encourage parents to do their own research, but I do not refer them to specific sites. Is no me job. It's your job. What you're paid for. I'm not paid at all, and in order for parents to trust me, I can't be sending them to specific commercial (not purely informational) sites. I could be getting paid for such referrals. How would a parent know?
Sure you can.  There are no sites (or very few) which are commercial free, fornits has book commercials and anti program themed items to purchase.  Isaccorp has their commercials and items they push.  Parents just don’t know, so you are right.  Suppose Aspen people hired writers to write anti-wwasp  survivor stories on fornits to discredit them or vice versa.  How do the parents know if the posters on fornits are not being paid?  We don’t.  You need to just be fair and give parents information from both sides to help them make an informed decision.  I wouldnt worry if they think you are getting paid or not.

Quote
If you want to create a pro-industry site that is purely informational, advertises for no programs, and refers to no ed-cons. I'll refer parents there to see the "other side". Until then, I give them my "anti-sales-pitch" and encourage them to research the other side for themselves (which they, in my experience, have already seen).
But you think it is okay that fornits advertises?  Do you think that maybe the book lists are filtered to insure an anti program bias before they can be part of fornits ads?  Would fornits advertise books like “Second Home: Life in a boarding school” or “Shouting at the sky”? or “Teens in Turmoil”?  What you meant to say was “Anti-program-sales pitch” (not “anti-sales-pitch”)

Quote
There are all sorts of issues besides just that one as to why I don't refer parents to pro-industry sites. There are legal liability issues, for instance, such as under the lanham act, where I could be sued for unfair competition (criticising one school while referring to a competitor or competing service).
Poppycock, There are no legal problems in referring parents to other web sites for information.  Unless you are expecting to get paid for your services.  If someone asked you for a nice place to get a cup of coffee (but you were a tea drinker), would you be afraid to recommend a few places for fear of getting sued if they burned themselves or received poor service?  Could Starbucks come after you if you omitted them from your top 5 list?  I have read here long enough to know that the rules don’t always apply both ways.  I am not saying that this is your fault, Michael, it is just the culture that has been developed here.
You jumped on me when I said I didn’t refer parents to isaccorp, but you skirt the idea of being fair yourself and talk in circles when I ask you the same question to you, why?  Its okay to say you just want parents to hear the negative side of the industry and keep all the positive aspects hidden because you don’t believe the industry helps people.
I suspect that you sell parents short. In my experience if they believe you are being honest with them and you supply them with honest information then they will make the right decision for their family.  Most are smart and can sense when they are being had.  There is no need to deceive them or withhold information anyway because this is deceptive and only hurts everyone in the long run.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #236 on: February 02, 2009, 02:57:56 PM »
Quote from: "KathyS"
Poppycock

This is a word someone only uses if they are trying to sound like someone else. KathyS is theWho.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #237 on: February 02, 2009, 03:00:19 PM »
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "KathyS"
Poppycock

This is a word someone only uses if they are trying to sound like someone else. KathyS is theWho.

 ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)   ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)

Oh for fuck's sake!  Just stop it right now.  Not every boogeyman is The Who.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Anonymous

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 164653
  • Karma: +3/-4
    • View Profile
Re: Informed Consent....
« Reply #238 on: February 02, 2009, 05:45:58 PM »
Quote from: "Miss Antsy Pam"

I guess it would be too much to ask you to list the schools that your company has on their DNR list?  If you don't ask, you never know!


Miss Antsy Pam, I know it wasn’t you and didn’t mean to imply that.  I have one of those troll thingies hanging on me.  I don’t refer to the places he/she is mentioning.  At least they are not on my list.  I know that I cannot reveal the names of the schools, but I can tell you the types of things we put schools and programs on the list for
But Just pulling up a few on the screen jogs my memory.
1)    Not returning money due  parents whose child was removed from a school for medical reasons.

2)   Program misled agency.  Audit findings:  Program therapist was not licensed, nor had a background consistent with what was needed to work with children.  There was a doctor who prescribed medications but had no mental health training.  Had several law suits pending and was working with an expired out of state license.

12R/Academy

3)   Program sued 2 of our parents for breach of contract for pulling children out of school.  Children needed immediate medical treatment outside the realm of what the school could provide and advertised as such.  We intervened on their behalf and were able to get the school to compensate for their loss and then the school sued us.
4)   One place required some unethical practice before we received a commission.  I never received the details on this one.


5)   Academy.  An all girls program insured us that they perform cory checks on all employees, but when we got there they had no records.  They had unauthorized males walking freely on the premises and the girls had very minimal privacy.  We were given a tour of the facility and living quarters, there was 1 male on our audit team and the person giving the tour entered various dorm rooms (in use) and one shower area (in use) unannounced without knocking.  It was clear that the girls were not given time to prepare or dress properly.  The person giving the tour seemed annoyed with my questions, didn’t know who the males were in the hallway and suggest we submit any further questions in writing.  Their program initially seemed solid but the ones insuring us of this were off site when we got there and we never met them.  We never referred to them, this was the initial visit.  They did respond with a letter of apology and terminated the person giving the tour.   They are not open anymore and we reported all the findings to the authorities.
6BT/School

6)   3 programs engaged in unethical payment structuring.  


7)Misc:   Several programs had poor post graduation follow-up interviews.  2 students lost a considerable amount of weight which was never documented by the program.  One child had 2 teeth removed without the parents consent.  One child had stitches in their scalp but no documentation of a doctors visit, but the parents were invoiced $700 for medical procedure and transportation costs.  4 children were forced to eat pork.  1 child had extreme dental decay. 3 children exhibited self inflicted wounds on their legs and or arms.  7 children who were on the wrong medication. 1 child will only sleep in a dirty basement of the house.  1 child with an  incarcerated hernia which required immediate hospitalization and surgery.  One child suffering from extreme depression and required in-patient evaluation.  3 attempted suicides( under the age of 16).  17 children ran away post graduation.  5 children reported chronic truancy.  12 families experienced divorce with child living with relatives.  47 parents invoiced for damages to dorm rooms and common areas.etc.



All of our information is reported to the local authorities,  board of education,  DSS or equivalent etc. and various other agencies.  We share this information with other referral agencies also.  But I don’t think it is something we can legally make public.  Most of the info is old, places shut down or problems have been resolved.

We don’t give second chances (or reaudits) to the problem schools unless there has been a total change in management and staff otherwise how can you trust them to do what they say they do, on paper, after we leave.  It is very rare to take someone off the list.  Our success is heavily based on trust because we cannot be with the child during their stay there and we know we are responsible for the child and their family.

Oh my,after reading all of this again I have some second thoughts about how we do things, although I do support the good work we do, I think we could do things a little differently.  I wish we could have prevented more of this from happening instead of reacting to it. I didn’t realize there was so much,  makes me think a little I admit, there is more but I don’t want to think about it right now.  We have pages and pages of testimonies from kids who are better off because of our placements.  Much more than the kids and families I listed above and none of what I listed will reoccur because we don’t send kids to them anymore.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Froderik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7547
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Wow, obama is going to win
« Reply #239 on: February 02, 2009, 07:48:15 PM »
Quote from: "poopycunt"
Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "KathyS"
Poppycock

This is a word someone only uses if they are trying to sound like someone else. KathyS is theWho.

 ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)   ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)

Oh for fuck's sake!  Just stop it right now.  Not every boogeyman is The Who.
And after all, does it really fuckin' matter if it is thewho or just some other operative? No, I think not.  :birthday:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »