Author Topic: Re: HAPA  (Read 40064 times)

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Offline Ursus

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Re: Comments: "...The MKP and Michael Scinto," #s 41-60
« Reply #135 on: October 18, 2010, 01:44:58 PM »
Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
Quote from: "Ursus"
That particular comment hit me in the craw as well. There's another one in the next set, by a friend of the family who got a message on her answering machine from Kathy Scinto right after they found Michael...
Where's that?
The very first comment in the next set of comments, to follow in the post immediately after this one. The comment by Heather Del Rio.

And... to set the record straight, I remembered it incorrectly. The message had been left by Becky Arnett, Michael Scinto's sister (not his mother).
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Offline Ursus

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Comments: "...The MKP and Michael Scinto," #s 61-80
« Reply #136 on: October 18, 2010, 01:48:51 PM »
Comments left for the above article, "Naked Men: The ManKind Project and Michael Scinto" (by Chris Vogel, Oct 4 2007, Houston Press), #s 61-80:


Heather Del Rio · 11/30/2007 8:23:23 AM
    I will never forget the day I came into to work and listened to my messages and heard Becky's distraut voice. "Hi Heather, It's Bec. I just wanted you to know Mike's dead. Call me." and she broke down sobbing as she hung up the phone. I immediately called her, the reality, and permanance of it all not yet hitting me. Expecting her to tell me of a car accident I was shocked to find out he had commited suicide. Mike was a great man, a man that strived for beterment of himself. He followed after his father with the strength and humor that he provided to all he knew. To say that he was a troubled man, or that his parents obviously are looking to blame someone else rather than turning the finger on themselves is obsered. Any family who has been through a suicide death always looks to themselves first, what could I have done to stop this, why didn't I see the signs, and so forth. This family is no different. Michael trusted the advice of his AA sponser as so many do, and he attended the weekend, I had never heard of something like this until Michael's death. I thought the article was very well done, and it attempted to show both sides of the story, unfortunately the people in charge of the "program" were unavaliable to commnet. Why not comment if there was nothing to hide. I am sure they were advised by counsel to stay quiet, but it looks bad. The Scinto family wants to make sure that something like this doesn't happen to someone else. As with anything, any program, any product, there are going to be people that have a possitive experience and those that will not. The issue that I see here, and that I think people are missing is that this program is not run by trained mental health providers, and they are offering the possibility of a mental health benefit. One person's experience may be different from anothers because of their own past history, and the people leading the sessions. The responce to stress is different for everyone, to say that all men should be helped by this, or that they should all react the same is rediculous. To say that there is no way that men were asked to touch eachother if they would like is assinine, you weren't there, you don't know. It makes sense to me that these men would want to keep secrets about the activities they did, while naked, from others because the chances of it being accepted in mainstream society are slim to none. So to all of the past participants of the "program" who claim to not have experienced the naked dancing, or the cock pssing, sure....we believe you. To those that have been helped by this "program", and support it's activities, more power to you. I hope that you thank God everyday for not having the experience that Mike did. I am sure there are those that were not harmed, that were helped, but Mike was no liar. HE was harmed by this, his experience was different, so instead of making him wrong, and making his family wrong, please try to open yourself up to the possibility that this could have happened, and that it is a very sad thing. You can do that and still support your "program", because after all you didn't have the same experience as he. This family was hurt, shocked, and damaged by the suicide of Michael. He tried to get help, but was turned away, he was an honest, hard working man, and the workd has lost an assest. God places us all in areas that we are needed, he pulls us "home" when our work is done. Mike was supposed to go through this to open the eyes of those that are trying so hard to look the other direction and not see what is there. There are things going on that need to be changed, and hopefuly because of Mike those things can be changed. To the Scinto's.....I love you guys! Stay stron in your faith, God will pull you through this, and Mike is looking down smiling at the work you do on his behalf!
Anon · 12/15/2007 11:05:04 PM
    I used to be an MKP member. I went through the NWTA back in 1992, before MKP was even founded. The New Warrior Network became the MKP a few years later, apparently for legal reasons (a company inside a company fares legal problems better) but also to show that it wasn't a one-trick-pony type of thing, and to broaden its appeal as well as make it more internationally portable. When I went through, it was intense, challenging, weird, exhausting, exhilarating, and transformative. I really wonder what sort of person I'd be today if I hadn't done it. I would probably still be very unhappy, timid, and repressed. The experience really was what I needed at the time and for the next 10 years, I was part of it and its weekly meetings, etc. As years went by though, and more and more people joined, some with complex and off-topic agendas, the whole point of the thing began to get murkier. There was a lot more vying for position, the typical B-S associated with, say, work life, and some really nutty dudes began showing up. I agree that there were people in the training doing stuff that was pretty advanced with trainees that may or may not have been ready for the experience. Most therapists don't get as deep as what happens in the first 1-2 hours at the training. And while it's true to say that perhaps they should, it is also true to say that such an event is no time for amateur hour. There were a couple times when I staffed that I felt that some men in positions of authority in the training were behaving in ways they really should not have been, and treated me or other men there in a way inconsistent with the stated goals of the training, to put it mildly. What the final straw for me was though was the thorough and seemingly intractable "muddying of the goals" I mentioned before. All sorts of new "protocols" were introduced that were a significant departure from the main focus of the organization as I had experienced it. This is not just the complaint of an old hand who likes things the way he has always seen them; these new exercises and "protocols" were really very controversial to say the least and focused intensely around the examination of ethnic identity issues and racism in society and in one's personal life. Such topics are important and have their place in self-examination, but this was not like adding 5% to something, but more like 50%. And, it was done with no consultation with the membership at large and seemed to be pursued in an aggressive and positively antagonistic way. When I realized that this seemed to be a change that was going to happen with or without my approval or the approval of others at large, I decided it was time for me to move on. I had other issues, too, but this was the biggest one. Since then, I have had little or no contact with other MKP members, mostly because we have just gone off our own ways in life. Some of the friends I made through MKP agreed with my opinion of things or came to their own similar conclusions and also just "moved on". It was a sad decision to make; I felt like something very important and wonderful, and needed for so many men and their loved ones, was being spoiled. I comforted myself with the realization that all new pursuits, if they are well-received and establish new ways of viewing the world and one's place in society, eventually become institutions (not unlike government, religion, etc.). And all institutions without exception become corrupt-- ie, the reason they are formed eventually gets lost in politics and agendas and soon it exists merely as an end unto itself. No reason to believe this was any exception, but it was a sad day when I knew I couldn't remain and be "in integrity" with myself. Which brings me to today, 5 years later-- I just found out about this story and indeed I am sorry to see it has arisen. I can't say though I am surprised; the experience is very intense and frankly I am amazed the NWTA hasn't come under this level of public scrutiny due ot such an event before now. Obviously I don't know all the details and have only this article to go by, but I do know this: such an event will have repercussions and its effects will lead to some serious soul-searching among the leadership. If not, then there's something wrong. But no matter, I hope that justice is served in whatever way it should be, and it saddens me to see yet again something that was born of a great need and desire to be of help to men and indeed humanity in general is having serious troubles. I am more saddened though at the loss of this man and the impact it has had on his family and community. Nothing but tragedy in this story-- no winners as it were. All of it bad for everyone.
Wanda · 01/06/2008 4:49:38 PM
    Has anyone asked the attorney general to investigate the suspected criminal activity of practicing psychotherapy without a license?
b man · 01/13/2008 10:47:49 PM
    Its about money and tax evasion. The only goal of MKP. And they should look into a lawyer that knows something. You cannot have a release from "strict liability" in any situation. How would they break someones homophobic feelings? Have the other 40 men pound them until they change? This is a cult
Corey · 02/14/2008 6:43:00 PM
    First off my heart goes to family that lost a loved one. An important one at that. I've read quite a bit of hatred towards the organization. I can't begin to tell how the Mankind Project has postively impacted my life as well as my wife and kids. It was my wife who put me in touch with them. She's happy since we're still married. I know that if it were not for MKP AND my ongoing involvement, I would be divorced by now. I was treated with the utmost care. Was it scary. You bet. I have assisted in staffing twice. My total intention is from a position of love and care. Nothing matters more than the safety and well-being of the new men coming through. This is made abundantly clear as we were preparing for the arrival of the new men. If what we are doing is so bad, why are there more and more men coming to the training? Why are we in so many countries? Why haven't there been a plethora of successful lawsuits against MKP? I'm also wondering why the newspaper article concentrates mainly on just one incident. I know there are many more positive outcomes than negative outcomes as a result of involvment with MKP. I've seen the books in the centre I've been involved with and I can assure you, nobody is getting rich over this. The leaders are given a bit of an honourarium and the other staff men pay to staff and pay for their own travel out of their own pocket. This is simply out of love for their brothers. I challenge the Houston Press to look for the positive stories as a counter to this sad one. There are many of them out there and they are not hard to find.
AS · 04/20/2008 6:21:40 PM
    Wow I'm not sure what goes on in the American training, but i've just done one here in Australia and it's been nothing like that story! I guess its different for different countries/cultures or something because I found it extremely loving, supportive. I can't speak for everyone tho.
Moco · 08/02/2008 10:00:24 AM
    ANONYMOUS SAYS: "I've never seen so many dysfunctional men in my life. They seem to be the ones that don't fit into normal society..." and with the emotional maturity of a 12 year old. This may be partly true because I used to work at a Catholic church in Louisiana and several of the priests went to a Houston MKP retreat a few years ago... and let's just say they acted like bigger women than I do. NO OFFENSE, but this is my view.
Charles · 02/06/2009 1:30:05 AM
    Ran across this article today. Went through NWTA last summer, and I'm completing my PIT group week after next. I went through it with my father, actually. All I can say is that there is never a simple explanation for suicide. Ironically, it is the very opposite of accountability and integrity. More than that, though, it's a tragedy of profound proportions, no matter who it happens to or what the circumstances are. Suicide leaves no one standing, and I can easily understand why the guns got pointed at MKP. I can even understand Mr. Vogel's feelings as he wrote this and did his interviews - any decent person would empathize with the family of someone who killed themselves. I imagine Mr. Vogel feels he's done a public service. It's a very short hop from empathy to self-righteousness, as I'm sure any righteous crusader for any cause would tell you, if they possessed that level of self-awareness (which of course, they wouldn't, because if they did there would be no room left for the righteousness). On some level, I imagine the men who led Mr. Scinto's NWTA feel that they failed him. My hearts go out to them, because it's human for them to feel some of that, and I hope their loved ones and their brothers helped them get through this time and continue to do so. To be be villified in public for participating in something which you personally know to be valuable, positive, life-changing, nurturing ... to be blamed for the death of a man you tried to help. Yeah, that's gotta be rough. I suppose people like the early Christians who were martyred for their faith, the European Jews of the 20th century, and the Indians led by Ghandi seeking from British occupation could all empathize with my brothers in Houston. Thing is, I doubt their empathy would turn into righteousness. I guess that's what happens when you aren't hampered by ignorance.
tt · 05/11/2009 2:38:51 PM
    That is awful what happened to that young man and I fully believe that mkp was a cause. It is a shame when grownups instead of nurturing people that have been traumatized in a healthy loving way, one would cause more trauma in a way that is secret, dark and dirty In a cover of supposedly "healing people". Its disturbing that people voluntarily go and involve themselves in unnecessary activity so that they can feel a part of something and then possibly lure innocent people to be a part. Why are so many willing to go and be abused? It is obvious if something is secret that it is not honest or any good. However, I know that my view is very much in the minority. Wake up people!
Lynn · 05/18/2009 1:06:26 PM
    wow, I feel horribly for the Scinto family but as one whose ex-husband attended this weekend outside of Houston while we were married I can attest to what the article says as being the truth....my husband was very emotionally fragile and had no business going to such a stressful weekend while he was suffering from a psychotic breakdown (the 3rd one he had experienced in his 30 years)... My basic fears were confirmed when I was told "that they signed documents forbidding them from sharing the details of the weekend" with ANYONE particularly their spouses and family. That was a huge red flag.......a spouse should be able to share everything......but then there was the mysterious case of poison ivy on my husband's male anatomy.. Yes he came home complaining about poison ivy on his private parts.......which only supports the being naked and out in the woods. He finally did share some of the weekend rituals and it disgusts me to think about them now as much as it did then.....ultimately we got a divorce as I was so disturbed by what took place and the mind control the group seemed to inflict. The men basically live outside and eat very little and are charged huge sums of money to attend.......biggest sham and the board and executive director should be heavily investigated....
Charlie · 12/01/2009 3:13:53 AM
    This article lacks any journalistic integrity. By playing on fears of homosexuality and the story of one man whom I have compassion for but was obviously disturbed with or without MKP the author created a piece around a thesis he had already decided upon; that MKP caused Scinto's death and that it is a cultish, dangerous organization. As a proud member of MKP Chicago I can say that while I was not at this training many of the things described here have never happened in the numerous weekends and events I have participated in with MKP. Not that I place the quality of a rag such as the Houston Press high, this seems to be steeping to quite a low.
Deborah · 12/03/2009 5:26:48 PM
    Of course anyone involved with "The Mankind Project" would say that anything written against what they do is a lie to hide the fact that it's an expensive weekend of primal barbarism. That explains the secret pact that they must have. As for this being a therapeutic weekend to help men evolve into men, why is it that a man has to stoop to a level of devolution to evolve? And, where's the real love in all this?
M Barker · 12/10/2009 12:28:38 AM
    I think what must have happened to Michael Scinto is that the confrontation process MKP was doing and the roomful of naked men must've taken him right back to the time when he was 6. His apparent fear of being attacked sounds like that. His description of his experience sounds like a mingling of an MKP training weekend and a 6 year old's terror, embarrassment, and overwhelm over having just been molested - as Michael had when he was 6. He was coping with MKP's pressure like a 6 year-old rather than an adult. It sounds like it refreshed his molestation experience and made it feel like right now. And all of the fear and embarrassment and SHAME was made to be new and fresh and NOW. Addicts usually take whatever their drugs are as a response to shame. Feeling like they are worthless, bad, wrong. Most of us who've been molested grow up feeling just like that. Some people who were molested have been known to commit suicide. The MKP may be OK as far as they go, but a 12-step group WORKED DILIGENTLY will get you further, but more slowly. There's something in our culture that wants to fix problems RIGHT NOW. Some problems can't be fixed that fast and trying to do so causes bigger problems like, perhaps, in Michael's case. MKP is limited in what they're able to do, they don't have Jung's deep understanding of the unconscious mind. They have a laudable goal and, from what I've seen, work toward it with some measure of integrity. But their approach is limited and, for some, ill-advised. I know men who have, as I have, been through one of these weekends. Their i-groups or whatever meetings are a lot like an Al Anon or Co-dependents Anonymous meeting without the safety and structure of Al Anon or CODA and where other people sometimes try to do your work for you, which is really a lot less helpful than it seems. In the 12-step groups, there's a code-word for anyone who's trying to take advantage of a newcomer for their own ends. They call them "13th-steppers". There is no 13th step. The insinuation is that the person taking advantage of the newcomer is trying to add their own new step to the 12 steps. I wouldn't hesitate to say that anyone who is working the first 12 steps with the integrity that MKP tries to teach won't be trying to coerce or pressure anyone into going to an MKP weekend. A real man will respect the wishes of another man and not try repeatedly to pressure him into joining their favorite organization or group.
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roger whittaker · 08/18/2010 1:58:24 AM
    this story makes me fearul and sick. i'm glad that none of my interactions with the NWA movement have been even remotely similiar.
Mark · 09/05/2010 11:43:25 AM
    I feel great sadness for this man and the Scinto family. I have attended many MKP weekends and they have been nothing short of supportive and nurturing atmospheres. Perhaps for this man, the weekend invoked past memories that were not pleasant. I can say from my own experience that no one was forced to do anything that they did not want to do, any man could leave when he wanted without fear of any action and each man was treated with respect. I was encouraged to hug my wife and children when I returned because being a better husband and father is advocated. Did I share everything with my wife? Absolutely not. You are encouraged to keep details of the weekend to yourself and MKP member to prevent ruining it for other men who wish to attend. Not attending the weekend, however, should not give you the write of some biased reporter to write falsehoods. The fortunate truth is that there are many, many men who have attended and this is the first incidence of suicide that I have heard. My respect to the Scinto family, but I can hardly concur that there was a correlation between the two.
Mark · 09/05/2010 12:03:16 PM
    My apologies to the Scinto family for the loss of thier family member. The postings by Deborah and Lynn demonstrate the fear that these women and women like them have for men to express their feelings and share non sexual intimacy with other men(the only touch I see during these weekends is the occasional bro hug). Deborah's choice of the word barbaric is laughable and I guess measured by her own subjective barometer. Lynn might think that she divorced her husband because the details of the weekend disgusted her, but I challenge her to be more honest with herself and admit that their were far more serious issues in her marriage that caused the divorce. Blaming a ruined marriage on a weekend is not only being short sighted, itis irrational.
Joe Know · 10/07/2010 11:14:17 PM
    The MKP has the same principles and uses the same techniques as EST, which had to change its name to The Forum in the mid eighties to distance itself from its discredited founder, Werner Erhard. I attended the seminar and saw how it dismayed, hurt, and frustrated some, while turning others into arrogant insensitive "Estholes." MKP is full of the same hypocrisy and harm. In all likelihood MKP will fade away in due time. The sooner the better.
Bill Brand · 10/11/2010 2:42:18 PM
    What a sad article this is. I did the New Warrior Training about a month ago. What Mr Scinto describes bears no resemblance to what I experienced. The NWTA was one of the most positive and uplifting experiences of my life. It was certainly challenging at times, but always respectful and compassionate. The volunteers go through intensive training before they are able to lead any group work, the group leaders are amongst the most highly trained people I have come across in the field of personal development and adult education. I have led many programs on team and leadership development, and NWTA is the best personal development weekend program for men that I've come across. Mr Scinto appears to have been vulnerable and confused, and it's a great shame he took his own life, but to blame MKP for what happened to him is misguided and wrong.


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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: Comments: "...The MKP and Michael Scinto," #s 41-60
« Reply #137 on: October 18, 2010, 01:59:24 PM »
Quote from: "Ursus"
Nonya · 10/30/2007 11:31:13 AM
    Let's not forget the men who come back from this weekend and become abusive, verbally or otherwise with their friends and family. This weekend helps men get in touch with anger and men who already have anger problems come back feeling as if this is a good thing. These men are not shown the difference between "aggressiveness" and "assertiveness". They are only shown aggressiveness and how "powerfull" this can make them feel. No one has mentioned this problem here, nor has it been mentioned the number of men who come back from this weekend who either A. End up leaving their spouses or B. Their spouses end up leaving them.


Wow.  Explains quite a bit.  :nods:
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traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

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Offline heretik

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Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
« Reply #138 on: October 18, 2010, 06:48:37 PM »
The ManKind Project

What does it mean to be a modern, mature man?
We're redefining mature masculinity for the 21st Century - and we want your help!

Leaders wanted. Men willing to step through fear and into the challenge of their lives. Men not afraid to revolt against repressive social norms, take off their masks and break through their personal barriers. Men ready to take real risks and step into their full power. Men not afraid to inhabit ALL the characteristics required of men in changing times; resiliency, integrity, courage, creativity, innovation, adaptability, compassion, empathy, radical self-responsibility, inclusivity, generosity and respect.

Yes, we scare some people. We fly in the face of rigid stereotypes about the "Sensitive New Age Man" AND the "Macho Man". We ask men to go right up to the edge - and beyond it - in a culture that seems to be comfortable with mediocrity and passivity from men. We ask men to stop living a vicarious adventure through their TV's and step into a real time adventure to win back their passion for life. We ask men to confront the real problems in their lives and to get 100% honest about who they are. Some men have a really hard time doing that. Many of us did too, but we took the risk anyway.
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Offline heretik

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Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
« Reply #139 on: October 18, 2010, 06:50:50 PM »
Mankind Project

American Journal of Community Psychology - Excerpt
cda_displayimage.jpg

As an introduction to the kind of work that we do - and the value that we offer - here is a preamble section from a recent peer reviewed research thesis published in the American Journal of Community Psychology. The value of the work that the ManKind Project offers has been documented in multiple research studies and thesis presentations over the past 15 years. Currently there is also a long term study being conducted across the United States by the ManKind Project. Preliminary findings from this study will be presented at the upcoming 25th Anniversary Celebration in Louisville Kentucky on October 21-23, 2010. The Anniversary Celebration is open to the public. There will be nearly 30 workshops and talks presented over the course of 2 days.

Learn more about the 25th Anniversary at: http://anniversary.mkp.org/
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF COMMUNITY PSYCHOLOGY

Volume 45, Numbers 1-2, 186-200, DOI: 10.1007/s10464-009-9283-3
ORIGINAL PAPER
Healing Men and Community: Predictors of Outcome in a Men’s Initiatory and Support Organization

Christopher K. Burke, Kenneth I. Maton, Eric S. Mankowski and Clinton Anderson
I. GENERALLY, WHAT IS ManKind Project?

Based upon the mobilization of peer rather than professional resources, the MKPI considers itself to be a grassroots response to the needs of contemporary men by providing an environment that fosters and encourages increased emotional availability, pro-social behavior, community and social support, and a clear sense of life purpose in a way that is congruent with, and affirming of, the empowerment and equality of women.[1] Another fundamental aspect of the MKPI is its emphasis on multiculturalism, with a mission statement that defines itself as ‘‘… a progressive men’s organization striving to be increasingly inclusive and affirming of cultural differences, especially with respect to color, class, sexual orientation, faith, age, ability, ethnicity, and nationality.’’[2]
II. WHAT is the New Warrior Training Adventure (NWTA)?

As a general description, the TAW can be said to have two main components. The first is a well-designed structure that encourages the participants to behave in ways that traditional male paradigms discourage—being honest about how one’s behavior impacts others, having the courage to face and overcome difficult emotional issues, and being openly affirmative of other men. This is accomplished through standard procedures employed in other experiential workshops, with a strong focus on Gestalt and psychodramatic methodologies (e.g., group discussions, games, rituals, guided visualizations, journaling, and individual process work). The effectiveness of this aspect of the TAW appears not to be the result of any single, particularly unique method of intervention, but in its application of multiple established methods to confront and transform maladaptive male behaviors and beliefs.

The second component is the modeling, support and encouragement of the TAW staff, all of whom have previously attended a TAW. The weekend is staffed mostly by volunteer members of the MKPI, the majority of whom actually pay to staff the weekend (covering the cost of campsite rent and food, as well as scholarships for men with financial difficulties). An average TAW has 25 attendees, and is staffed by 34 men who provide services for them.[3] These staffers not only provide support and encouragement to the TAW enrollees, but also serve as examples of how to enact the nontraditional male roles and behaviors.
III. What are the credentials of the Leaders of the NWTA?

To ensure that every TAW is run proficiently, the MKPI has established a ‘‘Leader’’ certification process. At least four certified leaders are on the staff of every TAW. MKPI leaders are paid for their services and assume full legal and ethical responsibility for the TAW. Leader certification does not constitute a professional license and is not regulated by any government agency. It is a qualification developed by the MKPI to ensure proficiency in managing and leading the logistics of a TAW and to ensure compliance with the MKPI’s standards for education and training. Open to any MKPI member, leader certification requires men to go through a rigorous training process, involving (1) numerous workshops to refine skills necessary to lead a TAW, (2) becoming an apprentice to a current leader, (3) staffing at least 20 TAWs, (4) facing at least three MKPI certification committees, and (5) numerous community volunteer activities. MKPI leader certification is a very time consuming and expensive process, and not all men who undergo leader training are granted leader certification.

Though possessing varied traits, MKPI leaders are selected based on (1) their ability to develop, manage and coordinate a complex group training structure, including overseeing in-depth personal work by individual men within a group setting and (2) their ability to model healthy and adaptive masculine behavior, a characteristic that authors have stated make them particularly effective at leading a TAW.[4] Given the importance of the MKPI leader to the overall process, and to prevent any negative outcomes or abuse that could come from that role, the organization closely monitors leader behaviors and their running of TAWs. On every TAW, at least 1 of the 4 leaders comes from a different center than the one running the weekend, helping to ensure a broad mixture of leader styles and personalities; a full report of the TAW is made to the MKPI by the outside leader. In addition, MKPI leaders must be re-certified annually, and the organization carefully reviews and monitors individual performances.
IV. What is offered by MKP after the NWTA?

Following the TAW, men have the opportunity to join a small, supportive, peer-led ‘‘Integration Group’’ (I-Group), formed from the weekend participants. I-Groups begin meeting 2–4 weeks after the TAW. Group selection is based on either geographic location or availability on a given night of the week. Each I-Group goes through an 8-week facilitation period led by three or four I-Group facilitators, one of whom is a MKPI certified I-Group facilitator (similar to Leadership certification, but of a lesser intensity). The I-Group facilitation attempts to create an environment similar to the TAW and to help the group operate independently after the facilitation period ends. Post the facilitation period, I-Groups usually meet between two and four times a month for two and a half hours. They operate autonomously and without cost, similar in structure and function to other peer-led, self-help/mutual aid groups. The I-Groups continue meeting until its members decide to disband or the group stops meeting due to member attrition.
V. What scientific research has been carried out on MKPI and its participants?

The MKPI has been the subject of five previous (unpublished) studies, all conducted by MKPI participants (due at least in part to the confidential nature of the TAW). These studies all suggest there are positive changes on the various constructs that researchers felt were germane to the MKPI experience, including an improved understanding of gender roles and increased male intimacy,[5] similar or better outcomes when compared to traditional therapy,[6] improved ability to cope with transition, loss, and unresolved issues from the past,[7] gaining a greater sense of spirituality, purpose and life meaning,[8] and improved social support[9]. In addition, preliminary research on I-Groups in the Washington, DC area suggests that they are effective in retaining members. One research study revealed a median I-Group survival time of 4.5 years (with 70% lasting at least 2 years), and a median length of individual participation of 26.2 months[10]. However, few conclusions can be drawn from these studies due to limitations in the research designs (e.g., small sample sizes, short term follow-up, no comparison samples) and because predictors of outcomes and potential mechanisms of influence generally were not examined. As such, the present research was undertaken to examine MKPI more thoroughly and rigorously, with a much longer longitudinal assessment period, a greater number of variables, a much larger sample, and use of both qualitative and quantitative data.

Re: An original paper published in the American Journal of Community Psychology, January 22, 2010 (online), entitled: “Healing Men and Community: Predictors of Outcome in a Men’s Initiatory and Support Organization, by Christopher K. Burke • Kenneth I. Maton • Eric S. Mankowski • Clinton Anderson – of which the text (but not section titles) is excerpted

[1] ManKind Project International 2005; see also, Mankowski et al. 2000b
[2] ManKind Project International 2005
[3] Drury Heffernan, personal communication, March 17, 2008
[4] E.g. Segell 1999
[5] Hartman 1994; Levin 1997; Schulz 1997; Richard 1999
[6] Levin 1997; Richard 1999
[7] Schulz 1997; Richard 1999; Goll 2001
[8] Richard 1999; Goll 2001
[9] Barton 2003
[10] Mankowski et al. 2000a
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Offline heretik

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Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
« Reply #140 on: October 18, 2010, 06:53:27 PM »
The New Macho - Newsweek
vertical_newsweek.jpg

Newsweek published a series of articles the week of Sept 20, 2010 on "The New Macho" and masculinity in the complex world that we live in. The ManKind Project has posted comments on the articles, and you're encouraged to join the discussion.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/20/why- ... -women.h...
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/20/why- ... ulinity....
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/20/for- ... e-same.h...

While it is certainly a difficult task to try and reclaim the word 'macho' as anything other than the stereotypical violent and out of touch guy portrayed in much of the media, the articles make some good points. One thing that we notice in reading them is that many of the men we know, respect and love in the ManKind Project represent the idea of the "The New Macho" very well. We call these men New Warriors. So bravo, men, keep on evolving!

We are teaching Emotional Integrity and Radical Personal Responsibility. We are helping each other become more resilient, more awake and more inspired to follow our purpose and live our mission. Here are some characteristics that a member of the ManKind Project has put forward as part of the'New Macho' paradigm.
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Offline heretik

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Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
« Reply #141 on: October 18, 2010, 07:00:33 PM »
The New Macho

He cleans up after himself.
He cleans up the planet.
He is a role model for young men.
He is rigorously honest and fiercely optimistic.

He holds himself accountable.
He knows what he feels.
He knows how to cry and he lets it go.
He knows how to rage without hurting others.
He knows how to fear and how to keep moving.
He seeks self-mastery.

He's let go of childish shame.
He feels guilty when he's done something wrong.
He is kind to men, kind to women, kind to children.
He teaches others how to be kind.
He says he's sorry.

He stopped blaming women or his parents or men for his pain years ago.
He stopped letting his defenses ruin his relationships.
He stopped letting his penis run his life.
He has enough self respect to tell the truth.
He creates intimacy and trust with his actions.
He has men that he trusts and that he turns to for support.
He knows how to roll with it.
He knows how to make it happen.
He is disciplined when he needs to be.
He is flexible when he needs to be.
He knows how to listen from the core of his being.

He's not afraid to get dirty.
He's ready to confront his own limitations.
He has high expectations for himself and for those he connects with.
He looks for ways to serve others.
He knows he is an individual.
He knows that we are all one.
He knows he is an animal and a part of nature.
He knows his spirit and his connection to something greater.

He knows that the future generations are watching his actions.
He builds communities where people are respected and valued.
He takes responsibility for himself and is also willing to be his brother's keeper.

He knows his higher purpose.
He loves with fierceness.
He laughs with abandon, because he gets the joke.

This is the Mature Masculine - it is the redefinition of masculinity for the 21st century. By no means is this list complete. You are welcome to come and add your gifts to this community. - Boysen Hodgson

Take a risk and come to the New Warrior Training Adventure.
We help men grow. Because the world needs grown up men.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
« Reply #142 on: October 19, 2010, 11:41:51 AM »
So, what are you trying to say?  Did you attend NWT?  How did it effect your life?  Were you feeling emasculated before attending and did it help reclaim your masculinity?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Ursus

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Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
« Reply #143 on: October 19, 2010, 11:49:09 AM »
My guess is heretik is opting to NOT articulate his feelings...   :twofinger:
Source page for the last two pages of his spamaghetti: LINK
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Offline Ursus

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Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
« Reply #144 on: October 19, 2010, 11:56:29 AM »
Quote from: "heretik wishes he"
The ManKind Project

What does it mean to be a modern, mature man?
We're redefining mature masculinity for the 21st Century - and we want your help!

Leaders wanted. Men willing to step through fear and into the challenge of their lives. Men not afraid to revolt against repressive social norms, take off their masks and break through their personal barriers. Men ready to take real risks and step into their full power. Men not afraid to inhabit ALL the characteristics required of men in changing times; resiliency, integrity, courage, creativity, innovation, adaptability, compassion, empathy, radical self-responsibility, inclusivity, generosity and respect.

Yes, we scare some people. We fly in the face of rigid stereotypes about the "Sensitive New Age Man" AND the "Macho Man". We ask men to go right up to the edge - and beyond it - in a culture that seems to be comfortable with mediocrity and passivity from men. We ask men to stop living a vicarious adventure through their TV's and step into a real time adventure to win back their passion for life. We ask men to confront the real problems in their lives and to get 100% honest about who they are. Some men have a really hard time doing that. Many of us did too, but we took the risk anyway.
Source link for more of heretik's spamaghetti: more marketing hoopla
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
« Reply #145 on: October 19, 2010, 12:09:10 PM »
Quote from: "heretik wishes he"
The ManKind Project

What does it mean to be a modern, mature man?
We're redefining mature masculinity for the 21st Century - and we want your help!

Leaders wanted. Men willing to step through fear and into the challenge of their lives. Men not afraid to revolt against repressive social norms, take off their masks and break through their personal barriers. Men ready to take real risks and step into their full power. Men not afraid to inhabit ALL the characteristics required of men in changing times; resiliency, integrity, courage, creativity, innovation, adaptability, compassion, empathy, radical self-responsibility, inclusivity, generosity and respect.

Yes, we scare some people. We fly in the face of rigid stereotypes about the "Sensitive New Age Man" AND the "Macho Man". We ask men to go right up to the edge - and beyond it - in a culture that seems to be comfortable with mediocrity and passivity from men. We ask men to stop living a vicarious adventure through their TV's and step into a real time adventure to win back their passion for life. We ask men to confront the real problems in their lives and to get 100% honest about who they are. Some men have a really hard time doing that. Many of us did too, but we took the risk anyway.

Source link for more of heretik's spamaghetti: more marketing hoopla


It's like a dare.  They're implying that if guys don't join the He-Mankind Woman Haters Club that they're somehow inferior or weak.  ::)  What a crock of shit.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Samara

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Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
« Reply #146 on: October 19, 2010, 12:17:06 PM »
Just read Tom Mitchelson's article and couldn't help but laugh my ass off.  Here is a guy who sees this wackery for exactly what it is. It's amazing how many people who feel stuck or impotent (all of us at some point, probably) seek help from obvious scams. The sad thing is that is was very reminiscent of CEDU and its offspring.  The secrecy. The suppression of independent thought. The intense experentials designed to make you feel like you've transcended the mere mortal plane of mediocrity, ready to fly with new tools... the tools in this case being  chanting and carrying your cock in a group and pushing your imaginary mother through the "human barrier" whatever the fuck that means.


Most shit in life can be solved or at least accepted through common sense and personal candor. No need to be guided by the Cult Quacks and Gurus. Jesus, people aren't even critical consumers of their own care - many shrinks are just Masters of the Obvious. No thank you - if I need help, I'll just consult my Psychic Canine Companion.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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Re: HAPA -- an LGAT
« Reply #147 on: October 19, 2010, 12:45:31 PM »
Quote from: "Samara"
Just read Tom Mitchelson's article and couldn't help but laugh my ass off.

I know!  I thought it was great, pics and all.   :rofl:


Quote
Here is a guy who sees this wackery for exactly what it is. It's amazing how many people who feel stuck or impotent (all of us at some point, probably) seek help from obvious scams. The sad thing is that is was very reminiscent of CEDU and its offspring.  The secrecy. The suppression of independent thought. The intense experentials designed to make you feel like you've transcended the mere mortal plane of mediocrity, ready to fly with new tools... the tools in this case being  chanting and carrying your cock in a group and pushing your imaginary mother through the "human barrier" whatever the fuck that means.

Most shit in life can be solved or at least accepted through common sense and personal candor. No need to be guided by the Cult Quacks and Gurus. Jesus, people aren't even critical consumers of their own care - many shrinks are just Masters of the Obvious. No thank you - if I need help, I'll just consult my Psychic Canine Companion.

I really don't understand it in people who've been through a program as a kid.  You'd think they'd run as far and as fast as they could away from anymore of that crap.  I guess some people need to find a guru to tell them what to think and how to live.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Ursus

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Re: "My (very) weird weekend with the naked woodland..."
« Reply #148 on: October 19, 2010, 01:06:42 PM »
Quote from: "Samara"
The sad thing is that is was very reminiscent of CEDU and its offspring.  The secrecy. The suppression of independent thought. The intense experentials designed to make you feel like you've transcended the mere mortal plane of mediocrity, ready to fly with new tools...
You might appreciate the facepalm I did upon reading this comment to the Mitchelson article, emphasis added:

    - Pained., North London, 13/3/2010 3:42
      A valiant attempt to poke fun and laugh at this group but to be honest with you, I'm still not convinced by your story. I can see exactly how this can be of help to so many men who have been conditioned by society not to display inner emotions and feelings. We have also been hurt, emotionally as well as physically, as children and carry the scars of this with us throughout our lives.

    A little help to heal a inner child cant hurt can it...?[/list][/list]
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    Offline Ursus

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    Christopher Burke's PhD dissertation
    « Reply #149 on: October 19, 2010, 02:20:09 PM »
    Going back to heretik's 2nd post (of a 4 post spamfest from the MKP website):
    Quote from: "heretik"
    Mankind Project

    American Journal of Community Psychology - Excerpt
    cda_displayimage.jpg

    As an introduction to the kind of work that we do - and the value that we offer - here is a preamble section from a recent peer reviewed research thesis published in the American Journal of Community Psychology. The value of the work that the ManKind Project offers has been documented in multiple research studies and thesis presentations over the past 15 years. Currently there is also a long term study being conducted across the United States by the ManKind Project. Preliminary findings from this study will be presented at the upcoming 25th Anniversary Celebration in Louisville Kentucky on October 21-23, 2010. The Anniversary Celebration is open to the public. There will be nearly 30 workshops and talks presented over the course of 2 days.

    Learn more about the 25th Anniversary at: http://anniversary.mkp.org/
    AMERICAN JOURNAL OF COMMUNITY PSYCHOLOGY

    Volume 45, Numbers 1-2, 186-200, DOI: 10.1007/s10464-009-9283-3
    ORIGINAL PAPER
    Healing Men and Community: Predictors of Outcome in a Men’s Initiatory and Support Organization

    Christopher K. Burke, Kenneth I. Maton, Eric S. Mankowski and Clinton Anderson
    I. GENERALLY, WHAT IS ManKind Project?

    Based upon the mobilization of peer rather than professional resources, the MKPI considers itself to be a grassroots response to the needs of contemporary men by providing an environment that fosters and encourages increased emotional availability, pro-social behavior, community and social support, and a clear sense of life purpose in a way that is congruent with, and affirming of, the empowerment and equality of women.[1] Another fundamental aspect of the MKPI is its emphasis on multiculturalism, with a mission statement that defines itself as ‘‘… a progressive men’s organization striving to be increasingly inclusive and affirming of cultural differences, especially with respect to color, class, sexual orientation, faith, age, ability, ethnicity, and nationality.’’[2]
    II. WHAT is the New Warrior Training Adventure (NWTA)?

    As a general description, the TAW can be said to have two main components. The first is a well-designed structure that encourages the participants to behave in ways that traditional male paradigms discourage—being honest about how one’s behavior impacts others, having the courage to face and overcome difficult emotional issues, and being openly affirmative of other men. This is accomplished through standard procedures employed in other experiential workshops, with a strong focus on Gestalt and psychodramatic methodologies (e.g., group discussions, games, rituals, guided visualizations, journaling, and individual process work). The effectiveness of this aspect of the TAW appears not to be the result of any single, particularly unique method of intervention, but in its application of multiple established methods to confront and transform maladaptive male behaviors and beliefs.

    The second component is the modeling, support and encouragement of the TAW staff, all of whom have previously attended a TAW. The weekend is staffed mostly by volunteer members of the MKPI, the majority of whom actually pay to staff the weekend (covering the cost of campsite rent and food, as well as scholarships for men with financial difficulties). An average TAW has 25 attendees, and is staffed by 34 men who provide services for them.[3] These staffers not only provide support and encouragement to the TAW enrollees, but also serve as examples of how to enact the nontraditional male roles and behaviors.
    III. What are the credentials of the Leaders of the NWTA?

    To ensure that every TAW is run proficiently, the MKPI has established a ‘‘Leader’’ certification process. At least four certified leaders are on the staff of every TAW. MKPI leaders are paid for their services and assume full legal and ethical responsibility for the TAW. Leader certification does not constitute a professional license and is not regulated by any government agency. It is a qualification developed by the MKPI to ensure proficiency in managing and leading the logistics of a TAW and to ensure compliance with the MKPI’s standards for education and training. Open to any MKPI member, leader certification requires men to go through a rigorous training process, involving (1) numerous workshops to refine skills necessary to lead a TAW, (2) becoming an apprentice to a current leader, (3) staffing at least 20 TAWs, (4) facing at least three MKPI certification committees, and (5) numerous community volunteer activities. MKPI leader certification is a very time consuming and expensive process, and not all men who undergo leader training are granted leader certification.

    Though possessing varied traits, MKPI leaders are selected based on (1) their ability to develop, manage and coordinate a complex group training structure, including overseeing in-depth personal work by individual men within a group setting and (2) their ability to model healthy and adaptive masculine behavior, a characteristic that authors have stated make them particularly effective at leading a TAW.[4] Given the importance of the MKPI leader to the overall process, and to prevent any negative outcomes or abuse that could come from that role, the organization closely monitors leader behaviors and their running of TAWs. On every TAW, at least 1 of the 4 leaders comes from a different center than the one running the weekend, helping to ensure a broad mixture of leader styles and personalities; a full report of the TAW is made to the MKPI by the outside leader. In addition, MKPI leaders must be re-certified annually, and the organization carefully reviews and monitors individual performances.
    IV. What is offered by MKP after the NWTA?

    Following the TAW, men have the opportunity to join a small, supportive, peer-led ‘‘Integration Group’’ (I-Group), formed from the weekend participants. I-Groups begin meeting 2–4 weeks after the TAW. Group selection is based on either geographic location or availability on a given night of the week. Each I-Group goes through an 8-week facilitation period led by three or four I-Group facilitators, one of whom is a MKPI certified I-Group facilitator (similar to Leadership certification, but of a lesser intensity). The I-Group facilitation attempts to create an environment similar to the TAW and to help the group operate independently after the facilitation period ends. Post the facilitation period, I-Groups usually meet between two and four times a month for two and a half hours. They operate autonomously and without cost, similar in structure and function to other peer-led, self-help/mutual aid groups. The I-Groups continue meeting until its members decide to disband or the group stops meeting due to member attrition.
    V. What scientific research has been carried out on MKPI and its participants?

    The MKPI has been the subject of five previous (unpublished) studies, all conducted by MKPI participants (due at least in part to the confidential nature of the TAW). These studies all suggest there are positive changes on the various constructs that researchers felt were germane to the MKPI experience, including an improved understanding of gender roles and increased male intimacy,[5] similar or better outcomes when compared to traditional therapy,[6] improved ability to cope with transition, loss, and unresolved issues from the past,[7] gaining a greater sense of spirituality, purpose and life meaning,[8] and improved social support[9]. In addition, preliminary research on I-Groups in the Washington, DC area suggests that they are effective in retaining members. One research study revealed a median I-Group survival time of 4.5 years (with 70% lasting at least 2 years), and a median length of individual participation of 26.2 months[10]. However, few conclusions can be drawn from these studies due to limitations in the research designs (e.g., small sample sizes, short term follow-up, no comparison samples) and because predictors of outcomes and potential mechanisms of influence generally were not examined. As such, the present research was undertaken to examine MKPI more thoroughly and rigorously, with a much longer longitudinal assessment period, a greater number of variables, a much larger sample, and use of both qualitative and quantitative data.

    Re: An original paper published in the American Journal of Community Psychology, January 22, 2010 (online), entitled: “Healing Men and Community: Predictors of Outcome in a Men’s Initiatory and Support Organization, by Christopher K. Burke • Kenneth I. Maton • Eric S. Mankowski • Clinton Anderson – of which the text (but not section titles) is excerpted

    [1] ManKind Project International 2005; see also, Mankowski et al. 2000b
    [2] ManKind Project International 2005
    [3] Drury Heffernan, personal communication, March 17, 2008
    [4] E.g. Segell 1999
    [5] Hartman 1994; Levin 1997; Schulz 1997; Richard 1999
    [6] Levin 1997; Richard 1999
    [7] Schulz 1997; Richard 1999; Goll 2001
    [8] Richard 1999; Goll 2001
    [9] Barton 2003
    [10] Mankowski et al. 2000a
    It looks like the above has been lifted straight from what is currently displayed on MKP's homepage (scroll down past the video):  http://mankindproject.org/

    The above referenced paper appears to be based, at least in part, on Christopher Burke's 356-page Ph.D. dissertation (2004, University of Maryland). This was previously mentioned in the Pathways thread, which is about an MKP offshoot for teens (primarily boys) that is currently active in Australia:


      Originally posted on 26 Dec 2007:
      Quote from: "Ursus"
      There is a 356 page PhD dissertation by a Christopher Kenneth Burke (2004, University of Maryland, Adviser Dr. Kenneth I. Maton), which is pretty much very pro-MKP from a cursory look at it.  The paper contains a number of references which might be worth some looking into as well.  This download is from a South African Social Services organization, who has seen fit to include it amongst supporting papers and other reference work for their "Fatherhood Project."

      "Healing Men and Community:  Predictors of Outcome in a Men's Initiatory and Support Organization"
      http://www.hsrc.ac.za/Document-104.phtml
      [/list]
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