Re: HAPA

[DannyB II]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1257607/Tom-Mitchelsons-weird-weekend-naked-woodland-warriors.html#ixzz0zQWWIQOx


My (very) weird weekend with the naked woodland warriors who travel to remote England to 'reclaim their masculinity'

By Tom Mitchelson
Last updated at 1:53 AM on 13th March 2010

 
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... z0zQXJyocr

Great reporting Anne, love the pics, nice touch.

[Anne Bonney]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1257607/Tom-Mitchelsons-weird-weekend-naked-woodland-warriors.html#ixzz0zQWWIQOx


My (very) weird weekend with the naked woodland warriors who travel to remote England to 'reclaim their masculinity'

By Tom Mitchelson
Last updated at 1:53 AM on 13th March 2010

 
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... z0zQXJyocr

Great reporting Anne, love the pics, nice touch.

Well, thanks but I didn't "report" on it.  Tom Michelson did, hence the pictures of him.   I thought it was pretty funny and informative.

[Ursus]

We have been asked to visualise meeting an animal along the way. This becomes our 'warrior' name. And I spend the rest of the time with Mighty Condor, Courageous Wolf and Intrepid Panther.

It is odd that no one opts for a sheep, wombat or guinea pig. I, however, become Relaxed Penguin. Oh Lord. Now I've written that, they can identify their Judas.

[/list]

[DannyB II]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1257607/Tom-Mitchelsons-weird-weekend-naked-woodland-warriors.html#ixzz0zQWWIQOx


My (very) weird weekend with the naked woodland warriors who travel to remote England to 'reclaim their masculinity'

By Tom Mitchelson
Last updated at 1:53 AM on 13th March 2010

 
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... z0zQXJyocr

Great reporting Anne, love the pics, nice touch.

Well, thanks but I didn't "report" on it.  Tom Michelson did, hence the pictures of him.   I thought it was pretty funny and informative.

I knew that, it was my attempt at being humorous with you.

[DannyB II]

We have been asked to visualise meeting an animal along the way. This becomes our 'warrior' name. And I spend the rest of the time with Mighty Condor, Courageous Wolf and Intrepid Panther.

It is odd that no one opts for a sheep, wombat or guinea pig. I, however, become Relaxed Penguin. Oh Lord. Now I've written that, they can identify their Judas.

[/list]

Hillarious!!!!!!!!

[Anne Bonney]

We have been asked to visualise meeting an animal along the way. This becomes our 'warrior' name. And I spend the rest of the time with Mighty Condor, Courageous Wolf and Intrepid Panther.

It is odd that no one opts for a sheep, wombat or guinea pig. I, however, become Relaxed Penguin. Oh Lord. Now I've written that, they can identify their Judas.

[/list]

 :roflmao:   :roflmao:

That, quite literally, made me laugh out loud!!!

[Ursus]

Comments left for the above article, "My (very) weird weekend with the naked woodland warriors who travel to remote England to 'reclaim their masculinity' " (by Tom Mitchelson, 13th March 2010, Daily Mail):


- Curt, Washington, DC, 12/3/2010 17:26

I do not mean to be rude, but the professional photoshoot you arranged to add 'flavor' to this article seems to indicate your own overly-active need for attention. It's unfortunate that you used an organization and the deep personal sharing of other men as a way to shine a spotlight on yourself and your poses.

It's not a cult. It's not even cult-ish. Despite whatever travel arrangements caused you to feel confined - no man is ever prohibited from leaving at any time. And no man is forced to do anything he does not wish to do.

I am as skeptical of cults as anyone I know, and am not one to join flocks of like-minded people. Yet a few days spent with this group provided me with some great insights, and the basis for some wonderful friendships that exist years later.

And most of all - there is not one moment of this process that is directed toward hatred of women. If men come to the weekend due to issues with women in their lives, that is what they bring to the process.

- antipolitician, Eastbourne, UK, 12/3/2010 23:58

I go archery field shooting at the weekends, now that is demanding

That to me, is much better than standing around naked, with a bunch of nutters who don't seem to know their a**e from their elbow.

Oh and by the way, women also do field archery, and they are great company.

- Annti, New Orleans, LA USA, 13/3/2010 1:14

Well said!

That's one thing that I've never understood about the feminist-backlash "pro-male" so-called "movement": why does it have to be AGAINST women?

One of the commercial radio stations in NOLA used to have "testicle festival," which basically consisted of a month of anti-woman sweepers (promo blurbs), pathetically-juvenile "jokes," and more crap about how "bad" women are and ergo, how "superior" men are to us.

How in the HELL does this make men feel better about themselves? Other than schoolyard bullies, of course... If differentiation from parental units is a healthy step in psychological development, why does (hetero) man need to oppress woman in order to "be" a so-called "man"? Not that gay men can't be sexist piglets, believe me, some consider women to be a SUB-species.

(character limit, despite having 160 characters left, demands a continuation.)

- Annti, New Orleans, LA USA, 13/3/2010 1:19

Part 2:

When (smarter) women threw off the yoke of approx. 6,000 years of patriarchal oppression, it was real, political, social and emotional. What yokes do men have to shed, really?

Really. Besides nuns.

If being in a relationship with a woman is such a hardship, then why not stay single and bitch less? Or, if women TRULY "oppress" a man, why doesn't he just stick to guys?

- Annti, New Orleans, LA USA, 13/3/2010 1:20

Last attempt: Part 3:

On this side of the Atlantic, the utterly fear-driven megalomania of sexism/objectification/recidivism/etc. is beyond pathetic. Women are meat, servants, possessions, and of course, if they're women who REJECT men, then they are EVIL, CASTRATING WITCH-LESBIANS (like the last part is an actual INSULT...) who seek to "DESTROY THE AMERICAN NUCLEAR FAMILY AND ALL THAT IS GOOD IN THE WORLD."

What are they really afraid of?

- That-Ice-And-Snow-You're-Standing-In-Does-Not-Exist, Australia, 13/3/2010 1:45

"It was like watching a section of a Pinter play performed by nine-year-olds."

Yep, but I think you should have said "5 year-olds". These days are simply designed to wear down & destroy any last vestige of masculinity that has escaped from Feminism, Political Correctness, and New Tories. Men now see being male as something to be laughed at and these courses play to that, BIG TIME.

It's time to recover the quiet masculinity and the cheery heroism that was evident on the beaches at Normandy, something the instructors of this Yuppie idiocy would never be able to accomplish.

- Charles, London, 13/3/2010 1:50

What a bunch of plonkers ...."new warriors " my A$%* .

I doubt they had "lost " their masculinity....i just doubt they had much of it in the first place.

BUT..i will admit i laughed my socks of while reading this...its just a shame that so many men feel "emasculated" these days........no wonder women are acting stronger daily....they have no choice.

- debbie, lincs, 13/3/2010 2:16

Blimey!! £500 just to be led by they hand naked around a wood, not fed for a few hours and ordered to make animal noises?? ...I could do that for half the price mate!! LOL

- Frenchiegirl, France, 13/3/2010 2:48

So the reporter paid £500 for all this rubbish, just for weekend ?
Next time, dear, treat yourself to a decent hotel, en suite bathroom and some decent grub.
Did any of the men learn anything ?
I think not !

- imod, finland, 13/3/2010 2:49

anyone ever read the book Iron John

- Mark, Bath, 13/3/2010 3:03

Dissappointing article, it seems that Tom went on this weekend with the firm intent to 'expose' and therefore had bias preconceptions even before he started the registration process. If men want to go on these weekends then why cant they, we still to my knowledge live in a free society. If you look at the press and more often TV advertising, you will see countless examples of men being made to look pathetic, apparently we are unable to wash clothes or dishes and all we do is sit on the sofa watching football and drinking beer. A handful of nuts and a spoonful of porridge for breakfast, are we expected to take the author seriously. You can see he stereotyped the other paticipants as saddos, that is until he actually did some fact finding and found they are normal men. Please could we find out about the disturbing changes in men after they had attended these courses, its strange that this isnt mentioned in more detail. Can we just all agree to equality between the sexes?

- Anita, Chiavari, Italy, 13/3/2010 3:16

Good looking and intelligent!
I enjoyed this article especially after having read a wife's point of view some weeks ago.
If a man, to be a man, needs to alienate himself from the women in their lives, I wonder what men they are?

- Pained., North London, 13/3/2010 3:42

A valiant attempt to poke fun and laugh at this group but to be honest with you, I'm still not convinced by your story. I can see exactly how this can be of help to so many men who have been conditioned by society not to display inner emotions and feelings. We have also been hurt, emotionally as well as physically, as children and carry the scars of this with us throughout our lives.

A little help to heal a inner child cant hurt can it...?

- DG, Cheltenham, 13/3/2010 3:47

Don't tell "Harriet Harperson" -she will have it banned!

- Tez, Leominster, Herefordshire, 13/3/2010 4:10

Sounds ridiculous.

- Liz, Bristol-ish, 13/3/2010 4:40

Oh dear. This sounds a lot like EST or one of the wackier American 'male bonding' groups - break you down and build you back up again. I've attended analogous events for women and a couple have been very helpful and genuinely supportive and some have just been cringe-making.

My partner, who abhors drumming as a nasty hippy practice, occasionally gets in touch with his inner masculine - with a chainsaw in the garden. I'm quite happy to be a total girl and stand by passing him bits of equipment. If there are any accountants out there who feel the need to contact their inner warrior, there's plenty to do in the actual countryside without changing your name to Languid Baboon or whatever!

- Barry watson, Westerham Kent, 13/3/2010 4:56

There are a few nutters out there.
Better to keep 'em in the woods.

- Richard Christian de Meath, Bournemouth, England, 13/3/2010 5:01

Sounds just like the boy scouts on a commando weekend!

- Madeline, Guildford, England, 13/3/2010 5:03

Classic cultic brainwashing - deprivation of sleep, food, personal objects, any form of escape. Constant drums, being yelled at, being controlled in apparently random fashion. They've got the indoctrination techniques down pat. I'd be much, much more worried, though, if the writer couldn't account for every waking minute - are there periods of time he simply couldn't remember?

It's like the beginning of a horror movie, where men take part in these apparently loony-but-harmless weekends, and then someone puts out a key phrase or word... and they all turn on the women, foaming and glassy-eyed, screaming their animal names and ...

Yeah, I have a vivid imagination.

- DG, Cheltenham, 13/3/2010 5:07

Yet not once during that weird and frightening weekend did I ever hear it acknowledged that we men share a world. With women.

I expect that is no different to similar courses for "Wimin"-except to denigrate men and blame them for everything, of course!

- Claire, Derry, 13/3/2010 5:25

There is really enough rage within many men against women, for no reason whatsoever other than the inadequacy they feel inside themselves, that it is totally wrong to encourage even more. Surely it would be much better if these men were taught how to love and cherish their partners while being assertive in a safe, healthy way?

This weekend sounds like nothing more than a blatant rip-off of vulnerable men.

- John, London, UK, 13/3/2010 5:34

Umm, isn't t easier (and rather more dignified) to join the local golf/bowls/fishing/whatever club?

- Ruth, Surrey, 13/3/2010 5:54

Men are sooooo weird!

- munchkin, dublin, 13/3/2010 6:23

Sounds great. How do I sign up?

- ron, london, 13/3/2010 6:25

Isn't this how feminism started. The last line is what feminists believe about women. They believe men are the opposition. It was only about time men realised that they were indeed getting emasculated.

© Associated Newspapers Ltd

[Anne Bonney]

We have been asked to visualise meeting an animal along the way. This becomes our 'warrior' name. And I spend the rest of the time with Mighty Condor, Courageous Wolf and Intrepid Panther.

It is odd that no one opts for a sheep, wombat or guinea pig. I, however, become Relaxed Penguin. Oh Lord. Now I've written that, they can identify their Judas.

[/list]

 :roflmao:

[Inculcated]

Tom Mitchelson wrote : “Over and over. It was like watching a section of a Pinter play performed by nine-year-olds” :rofl:

[Anne Bonney]

One of the problems for me is that -- for all intents and purposes -- they are conducting therapy without a license, and certainly without training or professional constraints and accountabilities. Come to think of it, that is exactly what Hyde does as well.

Yup and they get away with it the same way programs do.....they just call it something different.  In this case (NWT), it's "training", not "therapy".

Ahh. Thanks for that bump.

I had planned to post the Michael Scinto story here, but apparently never got around to it. Scinto participated in the New Warrior Training Adventure put on by the Mankind Project, and then committed suicide not too long after. The Houston Press did a story on this, along with a cover story / blog summarizing some of the pertinent details. Here's that cover story:

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Houston Press Blogs
Cover Story: The ManKind Project
By Chris Vogel, Wednesday, Oct. 3 2007 @ 2:01PM

I never noticed the phallic nature of that, ummmm, "stick" that the naked me are holding onto so tightly!

 :rofl:

[Anne Bonney]

Jeesh you also failed to reveal that Michael Scinto was a drug addict, was in AA and continued to use.

So, apparently neither NWT (LGATs) nor Stepcraft had any success wrt to Mr. Scinto.



Edited to add:

Why am I not surprised?  

IN FACT, since ya are hell-bent on introducing it into the conversation, that Michael Scinto had experienced difficulties with drug abuse prior to his weekend with the MKP folk, that he was introduced to MKP and exhorted to attend the NWTA via his AA sponsor Kim Sawyer, not to mention was pressured to share with the group and expose his soul by Sawyer re. childhood sexual abuse within the rubric of MKP ... all serves to underscore the egregious lack of professionalism of MKP as well as to HIGHLIGHT the very concerns the mental health professionals that I quoted spoke of. From the above article:

"According to the police report, Sawyer said that during the retreat Scinto told him about the abuse. It was then that Sawyer told Scinto it would be best to share his recently unearthed memory with the group. Sawyer also told Scinto there was a licensed psychologist on hand that could help him if he wished."

[/size]
Where was this "licensed psychologist" and what the hell did he do for Michael Scinto, as far as helping him deal with dredging up these old and festering wounds? It was after Micheal Scinto's New Warrior Training Adventure, and apparently in response to what it unleashed, that he went off the deep end, ultimately blowing out his brains with a shotgun.

[Anne Bonney]

Comments left for the above article, "My (very) weird weekend with the naked woodland warriors who travel to remote England to 'reclaim their masculinity' " (by Tom Mitchelson, 13th March 2010, Daily Mail):


- Anita, Chiavari, Italy, 13/3/2010 3:16

Good looking and intelligent!

I enjoyed this article especially after having read a wife's point of view some weeks ago.
If a man, to be a man, needs to alienate himself from the women in their lives, I wonder what men they are?[/list]

Ursus, do you have this?  I can't find it.

[Ursus]

I never noticed the phallic nature of that, ummmm, "stick" that the naked me are holding onto so tightly!

 :rofl:

Yup.  :nods:  That's pretty much what it looks like, from what I've been told, though I suppose — theoretically speaking, of course — that there may be some variations in size depending on which branch of MPK ya choose to participate with... !

[Anne Bonney]

I never noticed the phallic nature of that, ummmm, "stick" that the naked me are holding onto so tightly!

 :rofl:

Yup.  :nods:  That's pretty much what it looks like, from what I've been told, though I suppose — theoretically speaking, of course — that there may be some variations in size depending on which branch of MPK ya choose to participate with... !

Why is the other guy talking if the guy in the foreground has the, ummm....."stick"?  What is the significance of the "stick" anyway?

[Ursus]

Why is the other guy talking if the guy in the foreground has the, ummm....."stick"? What is the significance of the "stick" anyway?

The stick is known as the "Cock," and the experiential exercise in which they all sit naked in a circle and share stories and whatnot, is known as "Cock Talk." The guy holding the Cock has the floor; he's telling his story.

I'm not sure why the pic shows someone speaking other than the guy holding the Cock. Perhaps they are speaking out of turn, or responding to his story...