Author Topic: The hearings have started, watch the hearings  (Read 29451 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Hearings
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2007, 02:12:59 PM »
Was the lady sitting behind Ms Pinto with an ugly aggravated frown on her face Izzy?


I didnt see Scheff in the audience. I thought I saw Lichfield in the far back.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ChristineMarie

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2007, 02:16:46 PM »
Is there a recorded version somewhere that I can watch? I missed it live, couldn't get the link to work for me.
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Offline Kreflo

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2007, 02:19:26 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
Ah, Captain Clueless comes in with his usual brand of bullshit.

NATSAP was blown out of the water early and never recovered. Something tells me they're not going to be taken seriously in the future.

And the actual conversation where Kutz said "thousands of cases" went like this:

Kutz: "Thousands of cases of deaths and abuse."

Panel guy: "Thousands of deaths?"

Kutz (correcting him immediately): "And abuse." (paraphrasing begins now) "We don't have figures of how many deaths, because there's no central tabulation at the state or federal level."

Of course he doesn't have hard numbers you fucktwit- he can't get them. What's he going to do, go around and ask every single county in every single state where a program exists, and try to find out where each one died?


He won't find one in here. We keep that info ON the Penninsula
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 04:46:29 PM by Guest »

Offline Deborah

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2007, 02:20:13 PM »
Damn. I only heard parts of it. Every parent considering a program should view this hearing. Will it be available to view? Hanzo, can you run that down? I would like several copies to send to parents.

I was very pleased of course, to hear strong support by Kutz, Pinto, and McCarthy for the creation of a centralized data collecting point. The industry will die a natural death when all cases of abuse, neglect, physical/sexual assaults, avoidable accidents and injuries, and deaths are compiled.

Was Moss the best NATSAP rep to send? Really? Who could've done better at spinning a yarn of shit.  She knew nothing of relevance. She got spanked good, but wish someone had ripped her on deceiving the committee to believe that NATSAP had strengthened their requirements. They have always required programs to be licensed AND/OR accredited. The key there OR. Accreditation means little to nothing. Want some teeth in it? Require all programs to be licensed AND accredited. Both the 'therapeutic' and the educational components need to be regulated and monitored, fwiw.

127 of their 184 "better" programs are listed as being licensed by their state DHS. I haven't confirm these.
28 have JCAHO accreditation.- I consider this useless until JCAHO puts a list of requirements out for public scrutiny.
5 have CARF accreditation.- Interesting observation and comparison here. All 5 CARF certified programs are licensed by their state. Does CARF require this? Why doesn't JCAHO? Perhaps because they have program shills on their advisory board?
Only 77 have accreditation through an Academic Accrediting Agency like SACS.
28 belong to another Industry Assoc, AEE.
16 belong to another, OBHIC.
4 are actually members of IECA- the Ed Con Assoc.

Some, such as-- Benchmark, Betton House, Bromley Brook, Change Academy of the Ozarks, Chrysalis, Coral Reef Academy, Echo Springs, Fulshear Ranch, In Balance Ranch Academy, King George, Life Designs, Living Well Transistions, Midnight Mountain Life Skills, Optimum Performance Institute, Passages to Recovery, Pine River Institute, San Cristobal Academy, Transistions of Galveston, Turning Winds Academy Institute--    have NONE of the above, only their membership in NATSAP.

57 are operating unlicensed programs, wilderness or 'therapeutic'. Several claim to be boarding school and staunchly refuse licensing and monitoring.
They are (heavy on Aspen Programs)

Academy at Swift River
Academy of the Sierras
Auldern Academy
Benchmark Young Adult School
Betton House (Family Foundation)
Blackwater Outdoor Experiences
Bromley Brook School
Building Bridges
Change Academy Lake of the Ozarks
Chrysalis
Coral Reef Academy
Echo Springs Transistion Study Center
Elan
Evangel House Christian Academy
Excel Academy
Family Foundation School
Fulshear Ranch Academy
Granite Hill School
In Balance Ranch Academy
John Dewey Academy
King George School
Life Designs
Living Well Transistions
Midnight Mtn Life Skills Training Center
Mission Mtn School
Montana Academy
Montcalm Outdoor Challenge Program
Montcalm School for Boys
New Dominion School of Virginia
New Leaf Academy of NC
New Lifestyles
Northwest Passages
Odyssey Wilderness Program
Optimum Performance Institute
Passages to Recovery
Penrith Farms
Pine River Institute
San Cristobal Academy
Second Nature Blue Ridge
Shortridge Academy
Soltreks
St Paul's Preparatory Academy
Star Meadows Academy at Hope Ranch
Stone Mtn School
Summit Preparatory School
SUWS of the Carolinas
The Oliverian School
Three Rivers Montana
Trainsitions of Galveston Island
Turning Winds Academies Institute
Wendigo Lake Expeditions
Wilderness Treatment Center
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 02:44:31 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Deborah

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2007, 02:31:01 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
One panel guy mentioned he had a few family members who went to these places and seemed pleased with their outcome.  So it looks like they recognize the abuse doesnt apply to all places.


That would be Bucky McKeon. If someone has time, they might run him down and see if he has connects to the industry other than a 'couple of friends who sent their kids to programs'.
http://mckeon.house.gov/

You can't "recognize the abuse doesn't apply to all places". An impossiblity as has been shown in this hearing. Get Bucky to cough up the names of the programs and I'll see what I can find on them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline hanzomon4

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2007, 02:36:03 PM »
Looks like a recorded stream can be found on the hearings website. It's not working for me though, may just need some time.

EDIT: It works, I'll work on steam ripping a version that can be downloaded and viewed locally
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 02:42:01 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline Deborah

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Re: Accountability
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2007, 02:37:23 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest2""
I'm so happy with Miller's hearing. They are finally getting it.
Ms Pinto did an good job.She cares.  
I wonder where Lon Woodbury is in all of this BS. His ED CON referred us to Catherine Freer a few years back. We didnt go but it was one of their suggestions.
Struggling Teens too is a BIg accomplice in these abuses.Referring to unlicensed,unskilled programs etc.


The GAO needs to be strongly encouraged to take up this issue. Ed Cons are not regulated either. If they are going to charge exhorbitant fees for giving their opinions (er.. excuse me... accessing your child's needs), they should hold some responsibility- be required to know more than the owner's reputation in the industry.
For instance, confirm the programs they refer to are licensed and accredited, if there have been any cases of abuse, neglect, death, etc. That a bare minimum.
What I would give to be part of the GAO investigation team. They're doing okay, but leaving so much out.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline hanzomon4

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« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2007, 02:54:13 PM »
Alright ripping to asf format, it should work on most systems.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
i]Do something real, however, small. And don\'t-- don\'t diss the political things, but understand their limitations - Grace Lee Boggs[/i]
I do see the present and the future of our children as very dark. But I trust the people\'s capacity for reflection, rage, and rebellion - Oscar Olivera

Howto]

Offline Deborah

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The hearings have started, watch the hearings
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2007, 02:59:45 PM »
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
Looks like a recorded stream can be found on the hearings website. It's not working for me though, may just need some time.

EDIT: It works, I'll work on steam ripping a version that can be downloaded and viewed locally


 ::kiss::
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2007, 03:10:33 PM »
A few thoughts:

Looks like this placed NATSAP right in the middle of the mess and the committee is looking towards them to clean it up.  They have a golden opportunity to grow some teeth and start holding these places feet to the fire ….if they do their job they can become a better asset to the industry …if they don’t they may become obsolete.  It will be real interesting to see how this plays out.


It seemed the panel viewed the industry as “Wilderness programsâ€
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2007, 03:12:44 PM »
Quote from: ""hanzomon4""
A panel guy just said that he believes that NATSAP is just a pretty sticker. He expressed concern that programs use NATSAP as a marketing tool, which is misleading in his opinion. He said they have a lot to prove.

Moss.... "we don't want to be the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval". Then what the F, do you want to be/do?
Moss.... "we're asking for your help."  
To do what? Tell you how to run an industry association?
Moss...."I'll take that back to the board". "I don't know, I'll take that back to the board". "I don't have that information, I'll take that back to the board."
Miller...."You're gonna have one busy board when you get back".

Anyone else notice that he thanked all the witnesses, EXCEPT Moss. I kept waiting, wondering what he'd say to her. Nothing.

Quote
The ASTART lady just said that all the shit about NATSAP being concerned about the treatment of kids is a pile of shit. She said how NATSAP wrote on their website that ASTART's report was just a view complaints by nosy individuals.
Word: The Panel is pissed!!!


Yeh, Pinto was good. Glad she was there. Would like to have been feeding her additional info through an ear piece, but she did a good job addressing NATSAPs BS. I didn't get to hear her testimony though. Looking forward to that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline TheWho

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« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2007, 03:29:41 PM »
Kutz:  "The negative reports we recieved were not a representative sample..."

Panel:  "How many of the thousands of abuses and deaths were actually deaths?"

Kutz: " The majority were abuses"  Trying to fool the panel into believing thousands died!!

Panel:  "Do you have a number of those who died"

Kutz:  Refused to disclose the number of deaths leaving the panel to believe the parents present represented the only children who died.

Panel/ Miller:  appeared not to be pleased in Kutz lack of preperation and dodging the questions.
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Offline Antigen

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« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2007, 03:37:10 PM »
Quote from: ""TheWho""
So it seems they are going to help NATSAP gain some teeth and recognize them as the front runners to hold these schools feet to the fire...good for them!!!  It will give them cause to boot some of these schools out of their organization....  same thing happened to JCHAO which set them up as the gold standard at the time.



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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2007, 03:37:59 PM »
::roflmao::
Kutz will have that data before the next hearing.
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Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Deborah

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« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2007, 03:44:47 PM »
GAO: Poor Staffing Cited in Youths' Deaths at 'Boot Camp'
By Howard Schneider
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, October 10, 2007; 10:50 AM

Ineffective management and poorly trained staff contributed to the deaths of as many as 10 youths at "boot camp" and other private residential treatment centers between 1990 and 2004, federal investigators have concluded.

Although meant to help troubled teens through "wilderness therapy," intense military-style discipline and other methods, the largely unregulated cottage industry of facilities has generated thousands of instances of alleged abuse, the Government Accountability Office found in a study released today.
 
Information on the facilities is not centralized and remains spotty, the report concluded. Some states closely regulate the private facilities, while others oversee them only loosely.

But by scouring court records and Web sites and interviewing lawyers, family and others familiar with the facilities, the GAO found more than 1,600 cases of alleged abuse in 33 states in 2005 alone.

The study did not include publicly run foster care or juvenile justice programs, only the private facilities that often serve as a last resort for the parents and family of behaviorally troubled or substance-abusing teens.

The issue of abuse at such facilities has been a recurrent one at the local level. Seven boot camp guards and a nurse are on trial in Florida for manslaughter in the January 2006 death of 14-year-old Martin Lee Anderson, who died after being repeatedly struck in an altercation with them.

Even some programs sponsored by states have come into question at times. In Maryland, allegations of abuse at state-run boot camps led to the shake-up of the state's juvenile justice agency in 1999 and the suspension of the program.

The findings of the GAO's study, the subject of hearings this morning before a House committee, will cast a national spotlight on a network of private businesses and boarding schools that promise to turn around the lives of troubled kids by teaching them survival skills or bringing more discipline to their lives. There are about 71 such programs operating around the nation, the GAO said. The study did not include enrollment statistics.

Neither did the agency's report examine the effectiveness of the methods involved, noting only that "many cite positive outcomes." But, in examining the cases of 10 youths who died, the agency concluded that facility managers and staff were often ill-equipped to teach the very skills they promised -- or ready to handle an emergency when it arose.

One 15-year-old, for example, whose parents had paid $20,000 for a nine-week program in Utah to help her overcome the psychological effects of a date-rape, died during a wilderness hike in 1990 despite showing symptoms of dehydration for two days. The five-day hike was the first such trip conducted by the fledgling program, and hike leaders "were not familiar with the area, relied upon maps and a compass to navigate the difficult terrain, and became lost."

The girl stopped eating and began vomiting on the third day, but was ignored by staff who "thought she was faking," the GAO wrote, noting that brochures advertised the staff as "highly trained survival experts." The girl collapsed two days later -- staff did have radios to summon help -- and died despite efforts to perform CPR.

In another case, a 14-year-old boy, was sent by his parents to another program in Utah, apparently to address behavioral problems associated with his bipolar and attention deficit disorders. During a hike, he displayed signs of elevated body temperature -- hyperthermia. Two staff members moved him into the shade, but then left him unaided for 10 minutes while one hid behind a tree and watched to determine if he was feigning illness. When the staff member returned, the boy had no pulse and was unresponsive to CPR.

A program manager was found not guilty of a felony child abuse charge. Although the program was shut down, the owner subsequently opened another facility.

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700