Changes at Pathway?

[Carmel]

Well, I dont have much more to say on this one...other than it gives me the major heebie jeebies when this Anon says stuff like "taking a look at yourself" and similar program glossary terms.

I remember people screaming that term in my face during confrontational raps.  "YOU NEED TO TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT YOURSELF"....as if I had anything else to look at.   On second thought, I had lots to look at....like six other newcomers each and every night....some suicidal, most not compliant, and all completely in control of whether or not someone was going to scream "YOU NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT YOURSELF" at me the next day (after 4-5 hours of sleep).  

You see...I was ripped up one side and down the other if I forgot one single step in our routine.  Maybe I was unaware of a girl in the shower for a few moments, maybe I missed giving permission for another one to ask to pick something up.  All carefully watched and dutifully reported by parents and other resentful kids who had nothing better to do.

Please explain to me how running on empty and forgetting to watch someone wipe their ass is a serious reason to need A GOOD LOOK AT MYSELF?

Ill tell you what....it doesnt matter what kind of attitude your kid has....they cant win in there.  I busted my ass each and every day of my program from the first to the last when I decided I was being lied to and abused and ran.  I followed the rules and did my best to take a GOOD LOOK AT MYSELF each and every day.....didnt matter.  It was never enough, and it almost drove me insane.

Your kid is looking at themselves so hard they are going blind with the effort.

[Anonymous]

On 2003-07-17 16:16:00, Antigen wrote:

"

On 2003-07-17 15:06:00, Anonymous wrote:



Similarly, the Program definitions of good parent and bad parent are quite different from how the rest of the world defines those terms. In fact, they're quite opposite.



 

Real World Parents
Dysfunctional Parents	Program
Give unconditional love but still hold kids accountable for their actions.	Love their kids to death and pretend there is nothing wrong and actually aid in maintaining the addiction/dysfunction
Must make decisions in the long term interest of the whole family and the child.	Never speak up and choose to let children's actions destroy the rest of the family's well being
Will allow a child to learn from consequences to eventually be in control of all aspects their own life.	Will go through hell and high water to protect kid from harm so the child never has to face situations that call for common sense... the kid grows up unable to handle their own life.
Teaches kids to make healthy decisions.	Allows druggy friends and strangers selling drugs to teach their kids about life and how to destroy it.
Expect their children to follow simple rules of the home for sanity of the whole family	Allow their child to destroy the house,intimitade parent & siblings,make the home an unpleasant place to reside for everyone and pretend nothing is wrong with the child because admitting that might cause them to look at themselves.

I could go on.

Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism--how passionately I hate them!

--Albert Einstein

"

[Anonymous]

On 2003-07-18 08:35:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2003-07-17 16:16:00, Antigen wrote:


"

On 2003-07-17 15:06:00, Anonymous wrote:





Similarly, the Program definitions of good parent and bad parent are quite different from how the rest of the world defines those terms. In fact, they're quite opposite.





 

Parents
Real World	Dysfunctional
Give unconditional love but still hold kids accountable for their actions.	Love their kids to death and pretend there is nothing wrong and actually aid in maintaining the addiction/dysfunction
Must make decisions in the long term interest of the whole family and the child.	Never speak up and choose to let children's actions destroy the rest of the family's well being
Will allow a child to learn from consequences to eventually be in control of all aspects their own life.	Will go through hell and high water to protect kid from harm so the child never has to face situations that call for common sense... the kid grows up unable to handle their own life.
Teaches kids to make healthy decisions.	Allows druggy friends and strangers selling drugs to teach their kids about life and how to destroy it.
Expect their children to follow simple rules of the home for sanity of the whole family	Allow their child to destroy the house,intimitade parent & siblings,make the home an unpleasant place to reside for everyone and pretend nothing is wrong with the child because admitting that might cause them to look at themselves.

I could go on.

Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism--how passionately I hate them!


--Albert Einstein

"

[Anonymous]

"Please explain to me how running on empty and forgetting to watch someone wipe their ass is a serious reason to need A GOOD LOOK AT MYSELF?

Ill tell you what....it doesnt matter what kind of attitude your kid has....they cant win in there. I busted my ass each and every day of my program from the first to the last when I decided I was being lied to and abused and ran. I followed the rules and did my best to take a GOOD LOOK AT MYSELF each and every day.....didnt matter. It was never enough, and it almost drove me insane."

Maybe the GOOD LOOK AT YOURSELF was wasted looking real hard at what you perceived to be wrongs commited against you and a small amount if even that on HOW YOU REACTED to diffucult situations in life. Life is NOT fair and by far, is more of how I handle adverse situations than how I am spared the existance of them. Reality is most have to face difficult times in their life. How wrong is it to learn tools to cope with those difficulties rather than as you put it... "I decided I was being lied to and abused and ran". Perhaps what you say makes sense. Only the parents should have packed up,sold the house and ran. Based on that reasoning, I had every right to abandon my situation. Please explain to me how I run away from life? Oh, I forgot, we always have drugs and alcohol for that.

[Carmel]

Funny...that would be so true had I actually been using drugs and alcohol.

I am fairly certain that I am not, do not, have not, and wish not to be spared from difficult situations in my life.  I wouldnt change any of them....maybe not even the death of my little girl.  EVERYTHING in life is a lesson...an experience...many not fair, as you say, but for a reason nonetheless.  I pity people who havent had tragedy or sorrow....they seem to be missing something as people.

I know what was done to me in Straight was wrong.  Would I change it? No. Because although I did not learn the "tools" for success that Straight would like to claim the taught me....I learned much more.  However, the same lessons arent for everyone, as Straight and the DFAF mission statement would like to believe.  Many children are lashing out at sexual abuse, verbal and physical abuse, neglect...these are not forms of drug abuse.  When you go into these programs, EVERYONE is a drug addict, or destined to be one.  That is simply NOT TRUE.  How can you justify that?

The idea of keeping kids off drugs is valid, and valiant.  But the "Pathway" that this ideal has taken in our society in the form of these programs is not just, its not honest, and its not working.  Look at all of us here, unified in  our ideas about what was done to us.  Where are the Straight Supposrt websites?  Where are the graduates who are all happy and healthy and drug free converging to show their support for these places that "saved their life?"  I dont have to prove that the cons outweigh the pros here...the evidence is real in the form of 99% of the contributors to this site.

[Anonymous]

I am not willing to bet that there are many Straight Supporters out there if all you say about Straight is true.  But, I know that there are many Pathway supporters.  My guess would be that the many graduates of Pathway (I wouldn't know about Straight) who are healthy and clean are spending their time enjoying the sober life they have made for themselves, and are not wasting their time on a website talking about the time they spent in a treatment center.  I know I would be in the community 12th stepping and taking in every moment that I have to live today, free of drugs and alochol.

[Carmel]

I suppose you would be right.  There just happens to be this little glitch in the system though.....I am willing to bet that 60-80% of those gradutes were never drug addicts to begin with.  

Anyway.....my basis is as I stated earlier....Pathway is a decendent of Straight, they use the same mode of operation...its the same method.  I dont care what name you slap on the front door of the place....there just isnt any way of getting around the abusive, degrading treatment you receive under that sort of method.  Its what supposedly makes the program WORK.  It cant be removed or there would be no program.    There is no kinder gentler Program, its not designed that way.

As far as wasting time on a message board...I can only hope that my wasted time here makes a parent think twice about whether or not they want their kid watching people get their bones broken, their noses bloodied,  kids carving deep gouges into themselves, screaming, violence, betrayal, degredation, humiliation....I can go on.  Im sorry, but subjecting them to that cant be the only way to get them off drugs....assuming they are even addicts to begin with.

Whats scary is that the parents didnt know about all of that then, they dont know now either....its hidden from them.  If you have a kid on first phase for six months who cant even make eye contact with you....how are you going to know if they are being beaten and abused?  You think staff is going to tell a parent that 5 kids have to sit on top of their child for hours ata time in order to get them to sit up straight and put their hands on their knees?  Hell no they arent.  IT IS THE NATURE OF THE PROGRAM to operate in this manner, its what they do and have always done in order to keep the mill churning.

One of my favorite quotes from this site:

A shit sandwich is still a shit sandwich, and no pickle on the side is ever going to change that.

[Anonymous]

On 2003-07-18 20:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I am not willing to bet that there are many Straight Supporters out there if all you say about Straight is true.  But, I know that there are many Pathway supporters.  My guess would be that the many graduates of Pathway (I wouldn't know about Straight) who are healthy and clean are spending their time enjoying the sober life they have made for themselves, and are not wasting their time on a website talking about the time they spent in a treatment center.  I know I would be in the community 12th stepping and taking in every moment that I have to live today, free of drugs and alochol."

OK, so how many Pathway supporters other than Mel and Betty Sembler are there? 100? 200? 50? How long is your dime therapy list? Do you have one? What about the state authorities? Why would Pathway have the urge all of a sudden to change so much of their surface if it had not been for people who know better?
You know, I said it before and I'll keep saying it. The only way to change Pathway treatment is to end it once and for all. STRAIGHT, INC's legacy lives on as long as their are newcomers, nursery rhyme songs, watching bathrooms, hosting strangers in strangers houses, naming these imaginary diseases like "oppositional defiance disorder"  :smokin:

[Anonymous]

Imaginary Diseases?  ODD is in the DSM IV (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual)  Check it out.

[Anonymous]

Diagnostic Criteria
A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at least 6 months, during which four (or more) of the following are present:

 
often loses temper
often argues with adults
often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules
often deliberately annoys people
often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
is often touchy or easily annoyed by others
is often angry and resentful
is often spiteful or vindictive
Note: Consider a criterion met only if the behavior occurs more frequently than is typically observed in individuals of comparable age and developmental level.

The disturbance in behavior causes clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.
The behaviors do not occur exclusively during the course of a Psychotic or Mood Disorder.
Criteria are not met for Conduct Disorder, and, if the individual is age 18 years or older, criteria are not met for Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Pathway parents must have something along the lines of HUTAS

Head Up Their Ass Syndrome

 :silly:

[Anonymous]

So,if I write it down that I am a flying purple people eater, does that make THAT real too?

Last time I checked, medical journals and manuals, statistics and so on, were NOT divine law.  

All that this means is that until we can learn to be perfect in every way, behaviour, physical appearance etc., (this all being impossible not only in theory, but by way of the huge differences in each expert's MANUAL on what constitutes perfection) then we are gonna be slapped with some kind of disorder.

Labels like these are nothing but a big fat buffer against taking responsibility.  Oh my kids got a DISORDER, so its no my fault then!

[Antigen]

On 2003-07-18 20:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I am not willing to bet that there are many Straight Supporters out there if all you say about Straight is true.  But, I know that there are many Pathway supporters.  

Really? How much? I'll take that bet. To settle it, talk to Leigh Anne Bright, who volunteered to cold call program families and invite them to the Conference in Bathesda two years ago.

Hell, better yet, here's some of the corespondence from that time.
http://trebach.org/letters/chavez/
http://trebach.org/letters/cavey/

Here's another pretty bad case of brainwashing. Laura Murphy just burried her son. He shot himself in the forehead when, after 3 long goddamned years (ages 14 - 17) she kicked him out of the house for minor house rules infractions.

Of course, Laura Murphy is what the program would call a good, strong parent. She's convinced that the Program did it's thing and keep the kid alive for a few years.
http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... esp1.shtml

Like I say, the Program is very effective. Not the least bit therapeutic. But VERY effective.

Come in the evening, or come in the morning; Come when you 're looked for, or come without warning.
-- Thomas O. Davis (1814-1845): The Welcome.

[Anonymous]

First of all, Antigen, re-read my last post.  I stated that I am NOT willing to bet.  
Also, weren't you one of the people posting that we should not use people's names on this website?  You used two people's full names in your last post.  Maybe you had their permission, but if not, that is pretty rude and a breach of confidentiality.  I know I would not appreciate that.

[METALGOD8]

Oh no, :smokin:

[nakid2003]

"My guess would be that the many graduates of Pathway (I wouldn't know about Straight) who are healthy and clean are spending their time enjoying the sober life they have made for themselves, and are not wasting their time on a website talking about the time they spent in a treatment center. I know I would be in the community 12th stepping and taking in every moment that I have to live today, free of drugs and alochol."

Ok!!! you got me...i graduated that place, am still clean or sober or whatever you want to call it, going to meetings, whatever you consider 12th stepping chances are im doing it (my opinion is you dont know what the fuck 12th stepping is in the first place from the way you used the terminology of it), oohhhh and i have a sponser, i sponsor people too and shit what else...i guess i am an overall success. YET...... i still manage to get on this site and "waste" my time by sharing my anger at pathway for the way the treated me. listen,whoever you are, we all have our feelings on what we went through dont try to tell us that we dont have valid feelings and we are "wasting" our time.

sincerely,
the indykid chris

Everything that people say to you is personal. Whether it is constructive criticism or not will determine whether it cam from and asshole or not.

----Bill Warbis