Author Topic: Cults in our midst  (Read 6159 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Cults in our midst
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2007, 09:26:42 PM »
I only go to meetings to meet drunk sluts.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2007, 05:46:44 PM »
Well i dont think it is necessarily that easy for *some* people to just stop drinking if they have a problem. I know that when I had to cut down for medical reasons (I am not an alcoholic in recovery) I did find it a little daunting at first. With this in mind i imagine if someone genuinely has a problem it is prolly quite a challenge.

I once read about a group that did not advocate abstenence but more moderate drinking for people who identified as "problematic drinkers" I cant remember the name. Does anyone know which group I am referring to? any links?
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Froderik

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« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2007, 05:56:40 PM »
The way I look at alcoholism is pretty cut-and-dried: either you are physically addicted to it or you aren't addicted at all!

Physical addiction to alcohol is no joke, but to label someone who has no physical addiction an "alcoholic"  is definitely a joke...case closed.
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Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2007, 06:10:45 PM »
Quote from: ""Oz girl""
Well i dont think it is necessarily that easy for *some* people to just stop drinking if they have a problem. I know that when I had to cut down for medical reasons (I am not an alcoholic in recovery) I did find it a little daunting at first. With this in mind i imagine if someone genuinely has a problem it is prolly quite a challenge.

Yes, it's a challenge.  As is quitting smoking.  If it's important enough to you, you'll do it.  If it's not, you won't no matter how much AA you get into.  If someone wants to use AA as a social group and nothing more, great.  it's helpful to be around others who are abstaining if that's what you feel you need to do.  But do NOT get a sponsor, do NOT read the Big Book or any of the other crap they're peddling.  It's poison.

Go look at the link I posted about AO's "what works" section.  They guy hasn't had a drink in 6 or more years now.

Quote
I once read about a group that did not advocate abstenence but more moderate drinking for people who identified as "problematic drinkers" I cant remember the name. Does anyone know which group I am referring to? any links?



Google Moderation Management.  The founder was arrested for DUI manslaughter a few years ago and disbanned it.  it wasn't much different from AA. They just preached a different solution.  Remember that the only study that AA has allowed was one done by a Dr. on it's own Board (the Valliant link above).  He actually found taht AA raised the death rate and it's "success" rate was 5%, no more than spontaneous remission (doing nothing).

it's like the programs.  Yeah, you're kid might gain a few insights, one often does after going through a traumatic experience, but the risks are greater than the "benefits".  Often far greater.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2007, 06:11:40 PM »
Quote from: ""Froderik""
The way I look at alcoholism is pretty cut-and-dried: either you are physically addicted to it or you aren't addicted at all!

Physical addiction to alcohol is no joke, but to label someone who has no physical addiction an "alcoholic"  is definitely a joke...case closed.



What he said.
 :tup:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Joseph W. Gauld

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« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2007, 04:01:49 PM »
Fellow citizens,

My wife, Blanche, and I spent our lives soused out of our gourds throughout our kids' early childhood, and they seemed to end up okay... Course, they're not exactly the brightest light bulbs on the the circuit, if you catch my drift... But they seem to have done okay, quite well, even.  I've set them all up in the family business I started after I discovered AA, using many of the fine principles of subservience to a higher power, with a proactive sense of rigid structure.  

Kids like rules, its healthy for them to know where they're going.  It ain't perticularly a good thing for them to think too much, they might lose their way from the path of their unique potential, especially if it doesn't include being in the Republican Party.  And parents are EXTREMELY WORRIED about their kids!!  Enough so, that they'll throw big bucks at anyone and everyone who can remind them that, without the loving structure we provide, their kids might end up dead, insane, in jail, or in the Libertarians, God forbid!

We, at The Hyde Schools, truly CARE about your kids, and have selflessly devoted our lives, 24-7, to exploiting the many ways we can throw the words "character" and "unique potential" around in seemingly fresh and irresistible ways.  So what if it involves smacking them around, sexually harassing and abusing them, getting a lot of construction jobs done for free, and ripping out their pretty little psyches by extorting out their previous traumas and dirty little family secrets through seminars and school meetings!  It builds character!!  Har! Har!

All in all, it's been a fine, fine life!!

Warmly,
Joseph W. Gau!d, The Educator
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Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2007, 09:37:24 PM »
the bloke seems to agree with you anne. Apparently you can stop drinking totally by your self

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/enoughrope/vid ... davehughes
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline psy

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Re: Cults in our midst
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2007, 03:27:17 AM »
Quote from: ""Anne Bonney""
I really would like to get a discussion about AA/NA/OA/CA and all the other "A"s out there.  IMO, this is at the root of a lot of these places.


This morning I was thinking about creating a forum about AA, at least historically connecting it to the industry.  At this point i'd have to run it by the two other f-nuts around here who run this site. ;)

To me it's simple: it's important to industanding the industry from a philosophical perspective (learned helplessnes, fear, self fulfilling prophecies, etc...) which cause it to be so dangerous, misgided, and outright fucking stupid ideas.  Since AA, statistically, does more harm than good, I think it deserves a special place on this forum.  That being said, it's Ginger's call, not mine.
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Benchmark Young Adult School - bad place [archive.org link]
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"Our services are free; we do not make a profit. Parents of troubled teens ourselves, PURE strives to create a safe haven of truth and reality." - Sue Scheff - August 13th, 2007 (fukkin surreal)

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2007, 06:39:20 AM »
While the obvious links between aa and synanon are there, and i am increasingly thinking that if I had some sort of substance abuse issue the 12 steps would not be for me, i see a crucial difference. Any person who voluntarily goes in for AA can just leave. Sure they may in some cases get dire sancitmonious warnings from the other 12 steppers about what a terrible idea it is but they still can piss off whenever they want. There were also plenty of people in the 60s who joined aa but not synanon.

Kids in programs are stuck there without trial or due process. They can not leave. They also have not admitted to themsleves a problem which AA says is key. This is of course because in many cases there is not a problem. The denial of a patients rights  to seek their own treatment and the forced incarceration are foremost what is wrong with the troubled teen industry. AA does not do this with consenting adults. Most programs just bastardize 12 steps and remove the key voluntary aspect.
For all I care adults can choose to believe in any crazy idea or cult they they want. There is no moral problem with this.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2007, 12:57:16 AM »
This article is about an Australian Alcoholic journo's experience with AA. I posted another article of his once on AA Apologies for the Wall of Text

http://www.dangerthinice.org/aa%20artic ... r%20Grapes

SOUR GRAPES
Jack Marx

Many years ago I became concerned enough about my drinking to attend a meeting of Alcoholics Anonymous. From the moment I stepped out of the meeting and onto the street, I felt it had worked something of a miracle on me, the type of miracle the movement is famous for. Many years later, I stepped out of an AA meeting onto the exact same street, determined, as I am today, never to return. What happened in between is a drawn-out rendering of that day in my youth when I decided, after six violent hours of bruising bones and feeling like a loser, that there was no shame in admitting that riding a horse was not for me – especially when the horse itself was a thug.

AA, as a doctor once told me, is “an evangelical movement about saving soulsâ€
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Rachael

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« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2007, 02:45:34 PM »
Quote
Alcoholism is not a disease, and the World Health Organisation has never declared that it is.


Holy shit.... Somehow this just blows my mind. And it's true! I just poured over the WHO site... they refer to the diseases associated w/ excessive alcohol consumption but they are very careful never to use the term alcoholism even. I've been fed that lie a long bloody time.
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Offline odie

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« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2007, 03:29:24 PM »
Nor will you find the terms Alchoholism or Addiction in the DSM-IV
(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders). Oh and by the way in the "Big Book" of Alcoholics Anonymous the term "disease" is mentioned 3 whole times. Some where along the line AA'ers became convinced that they were suffering from a disease with no known cure and would have to go to meetings for the rest of their lives to stay in recovery. Even though they steadfastly deny it, AA has become a religious cult. ::cheers::
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die

Offline Anne Bonney

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« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2007, 03:39:34 PM »
Quote from: ""odie""
Nor will you find the terms Alchoholism or Addiction in the DSM-IV
(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders). Oh and by the way in the "Big Book" of Alcoholics Anonymous the term "disease" is mentioned 3 whole times. Some where along the line AA'ers became convinced that they were suffering from a disease with no known cure and would have to go to meetings for the rest of their lives to stay in recovery. Even though they steadfastly deny it, AA has become a religious cult. ::cheers::




It hasn't 'become' a religious cult.  It always was one.


http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-religiousroots.html


http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-spirrel.html


http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-rel ... faith.html
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
traight, St. Pete, early 80s
AA is a cult http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult.html

The more boring a child is, the more the parents, when showing off the child, receive adulation for being good parents-- because they have a tame child-creature in their house.  ~~  Frank Zappa

Offline Oz girl

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« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2007, 04:39:21 AM »
I think Anne saying that AA had become a cult was about the most the Author could get away with and still be taken seriously while writing for a major broadsheet (the sydney Morning herald) Most ppl in this part of the world who dont really have a substance abuse problem would assume that AA is the way to go.

I agreed with the author's claim that he should have seen his doctor. Since hearing of this cult theory I have spoken to a few GPs who are friends of a medico sibling. Most have not advocated for AA. The big gripe has been that there is no realisticly independent way of disgnosing or recognising the difference between problematic substance abuse and actual addiction. They also have expressed concerns that AA is often the first port of call for concerned parents of substance abusing teens and that the AA approach can over react to minor issues. Has anyone asked the average American Dr their view? i would be interested.
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n case you\'re worried about what\'s going to become of the younger generation, it\'s going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation.-Roger Allen

Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2007, 02:58:41 PM »
Doctors are attempting to use their influence to effect society and change it through means like psychiatry and forced drug rehabilitation and even abortion.
These are not the work of doctors but the work of oppressors, sadists and killers. Don't trust your doctor it might cost you your life or that of your child.
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