Stuck in Stepcraft

[Anne Bonney]

***this post might make more sense after I re-read it tomorrow.  Sorry.  I was rambling***

There is a friend of mine who went through the Sarasota program, but lived with us right before and after graduation.  (the Sarasota program closed down right before she was due to graduate and her family was heavily involved as was my father).  She and I became really close.  We stayed friends over the years even though I "relapsed" (her word, not mine) and she has stayed sober ever since getting out back in 84.  she's still heavily involved in AA, goes to meetings, a couple of different ones, a few times a week.  She and I have had a tumultuous friendship, to say the least.  I was so controlled by my father, my ex and his parents for so long (they would hold custody over my head if I didn't behave as they wished) and this girl was a part of it, completely believing the entire time that she was "helping" me and my kids. (an obvious misreading on her part).

Anyway, she does love my kids (in her own way) and I love her boys. (They're much younger than my kids who are grown.  Hers are 12 and 13).  She's had the older on on Adderall since he was 5 for supposed ADHD (I never had problems with him when he would stay with me) and he's been in "therapy" for most of his life.  

Anyway again, I haven't spoken to her in a few years.  Her kids have always loved me and begged her to start speaking to me again.  She finally relented last week and showed up at my doorstep.  Sent the kids to the door instead of coming herself 'cause she knew I'd shut the door in her face.  I love these kids, but I can't lie to them.  They want to see me and my girls, but I am so polar opposite to what their mother believes in that I can't hide it.

She sent my yougest daugher (whom she's always favored over my oldest who happens to take after and look very much like me) an email trying to explain why she disappeared from their lives.  she went on and on about how hard it w2as to "stay sober" when her best friend was "relapsing" over and over.  I was so appalled by the statement and the rest of the email that I couldn't think for a minute.  She has spent the better part of 25 years agonizing over whether or not she should have a beer.  She hasn't, I have.  In fact, I've had plenty of beer, pot, some scripts and various other pleasures over the years.  She's absolutely astounded that I'm not dead, not divorced, not homeless, jobless, toothless and all the other dire predictions that Straght and i'ts followers saw for me.

I realized how resentful she is that she's expended all this energy "staying sober" for what?  She's divorced, unhappy, has a 13 year old who has already been arrested for stealing despite her doping him for almost a decade, sending him to Alateen and all the rest of the BS.  What does she ahve to show for her sobriety that she insists she's so proud of and has brouhgt her such gifts?  She's pissed that she DID follow the rules and got shafted and I DIDN'T and my life (in the past few years since I've denoucned all things Stepcraft) has done nothing but get better and better.




Ok, enough rambling.  I went out to dinner, had a few drinks and started thinking.  That's never a good idea.


Ginger, you know this person I'm speaking of.  I'll fill you in later on the rest of the conversation with her.

[Oz girl]

I really actually feel for your friend. It sounds like she has been living a life of fear. It would also be hard to recognise any faults with the more hardcore element of the AA mentality if you had lived with it for so long. Afterall all of your friends and associates would more or less come from this group. If you cut yourself off from it I would imagine you would feel pretty isolated.
I just hope her son does not get sent somewhere to "cure" his recent bad behavior

[Anonymous]

Jesus Anne, if I were you and this woman sent my daughter an email saying that crap about me, I'd never speak to her again. Some piece of work, that one. Seems as though if you choose to see her kids, you'll also end up having some kind of contact with her ( even if only thru the kids) so that would be a tough one for me, especially if I loved the kids.
Poor kids too, having a Mom like that.  

[hanzomon4]

Classic Cult victim?

[Anne Bonney]

I really actually feel for your friend. It sounds like she has been living a life of fear. It would also be hard to recognise any faults with the more hardcore element of the AA mentality if you had lived with it for so long. Afterall all of your friends and associates would more or less come from this group. If you cut yourself off from it I would imagine you would feel pretty isolated.
I just hope her son does not get sent somewhere to "cure" his recent bad behavior

That's my worst fear.  I was talking to my daughter about it last night.   I'm not supposed to know that he got in trouble.  His younger brother told me when we were out of earshot of his mother.  He was sentenced to CS for whatever he did and she was trying to pass it off to me as he was 'volunteering'.  Really pissed me off.  She was going on and on about how proud she was of him for "volunteering" over the summer.  I just sat there on the other end of the phone with my mouth hanging open.  Who the fuck do these people think they are?  The arrogance!  I don't know what to do about the boys though.  I am afraid for him (the oldest).  I just don't know what she's capable of as far as that's concerned.    That's the only thing that makes me want to stay in their lives.  At least I'd have a chance to tell him he had someone who would listen and try to help if things ever got to "that" point.  She has simultaneously drugged this kid and fed him Stepcraft bullshit for pretty much his whole life.  What did she think was going to happen?

As far as the friendship with her, sorry.  Hell no.  I've had enough AA bullshit in my life.  Those holier-than-thou assholes make me sick, including her.  She has consistently (years ago, when I was still somewhat under the influence and her opinion mattered to me) had conversations with my father about 'what to do about Kim     We're so worried about Kim, blah blah blah'.  She tried that shit with my husband for a while, but it didn't fly so easily with him.  How DARE she?  Why in HELL would she presume that my marriage was any of HER business?  Especially when her marriage was falling apart.

Straight and then for years after AA had a huge amount of control over my life (AA not by choice, the ex, his parents and my father would haul me into court over custody if I drank.  I already had a "dx" from Straight :roll:  :flame: .  All they had to do was go to court (with a lawyer who was on Straight's BOD) and say I was drinking and I was order to AA).  I can't and won't take that anymore.  Any lingering "washed" effects left as soon as my youngest was old enough to kill any power they had over me.  Then and only then, was I truly and fully able to let go of all the crap they pounded in my head over the years.  All the shit they tried to convince me of about myself.  I finally was able to do what I wanted, when[/i] I wanted and figure out what I really wanted for myself.  It was like Straight put my maturation to adulthood on hold for 20+ years.  They stopped the normal learning process that should have happened when I was a teenager.  I went from being 16 to Straight for 2 years, got pregnant 4 months after getting out, got married, had a kid, pregnant again, another kid, divorced, remarried (this time to a great guy.  16 years now) and THEN....when the youngest was about 15 or 16....life began again.

People do not understand how much this whole mentality, not just the programs or just for the time kids are in a program, destroys people and families.  It lasts for years anyway.  God help you if they stay involved with the Stepcraft mentality.  I can't do it anymore.

[Anne Bonney]

Classic Cult victim?

Yep

    

Jesus Anne, if I were you and this woman sent my daughter an email saying that crap about me, I'd never speak to her again. Some piece of work, that one. Seems as though if you choose to see her kids, you'll also end up having some kind of contact with her ( even if only thru the kids) so that would be a tough one for me, especially if I loved the kids.
Poor kids too, having a Mom like that.

and yep

[str8h8er]

My Opinion only

And personal experience as well, I suppose.

I was 12 when I was sent into Straight. Everything I knew prior to Straight was gone. All of it, as you well know.

I think that it screwed with my identity of who I thought I was because they were (Straight ppl) were telling me something totally different.

The people that make it through the program, and beleive in all of Straight"s bullshit have what I would call an identity crisis. They have been programed to believe that living the "sober" lifestyle is the only path that leads to happiness. SUCH BULLSHIT!!!!.

When they believe that, they pass that along and so on, and so on. Pretty soon, or I suspect in the case of your friend, that perhaps she is coming to a realization that what she always thought to be correct, is somehow crumbling around her. If that makes any sense.

I am no Saint. But I do believe that I am a good person. Despite what Straight said  :wink:

Despite my anger towards Straight and places like it, I try to have compassion and understanding for those who can't think for themselves.

I hope I didn't bore ya. Just a thought on the situation.

[85 Day Jerk]

irrelevant

[Oz girl]

Given all that i can see why you are less than forgiving of your friend. I suppose you can pity someone but stop your involvement when it gets to the point that it personally effects your life.

it is a relief that this kid got community service and not a sentence at some wilderness place. I wonder where his dad is in all this. Perhaps he is more able to mentor and discipline the boy in an appropriate and proportional way.

[Anne Bonney]

My Opinion only

And personal experience as well, I suppose.

I was 12 when I was sent into Straight. Everything I knew prior to Straight was gone. All of it, as you well know.

I think that it screwed with my identity of who I thought I was because they were (Straight ppl) were telling me something totally different.

The people that make it through the program, and beleive in all of Straight"s bullshit have what I would call an identity crisis. They have been programed to believe that living the "sober" lifestyle is the only path that leads to happiness. SUCH BULLSHIT!!!!.

When they believe that, they pass that along and so on, and so on. Pretty soon, or I suspect in the case of your friend, that perhaps she is coming to a realization that what she always thought to be correct, is somehow crumbling around her. If that makes any sense.

I am no Saint. But I do believe that I am a good person. Despite what Straight said  :wink:

Despite my anger towards Straight and places like it, I try to have compassion and understanding for those who can't think for themselves.

I hope I didn't bore ya. Just a thought on the situation.

Didn't bore me at all.  I think you're right.  She's spent all this time and energy maintaining her sobriety and for what?    She's just as fucked up as I was, or still am, just in different ways.  That's something I've seen in every person I know that did time in there.  My dad married another program parent, so my step sister and brother also were in.  My ex-husband, this friend that I'm speaking of now and a few others.  All of us.  Every single one, just in all different ways.

It's so sad.

[Anne Bonney]

Well, Ms Bonney.......  I've known you since 2003 and this is the first time I heard you were married twice.  I remember you talking about an abusive husband and when I mentioned it in an e-mail you nearly ripped my head off.  It left me very confused and bewildered.

That's because you don't know me.  At all.  Never did.  You know who I am, you've been at a few of the same get togethers as I have where we spoke a few times, but that's about it.  So, for the record, so Bob doesn't get confused anymore..... I married a Straight grad, had two kids with him, got divorced within 5 years and have been married to my husband now for 16 years who has never abused me a day in his life which is probably why I took your head off.  You like to imagine that you and I had some great friendship.  Funny, I don't remember it that way at all.

Does that clear up any confusion for ya there Bob?  Ya know, from now on just leave me out of your little stories, don't bother replying to my posts....I really don't give a damn what you have to say.

At the risk of you wanting to tear my head off again now, I would like to point out that you must have spent a few years living a double life and that the viscious little habits that came with it are still a part of your make-up today.  

Too late.  fuck off asshole!!!!!  God but you're a pathetic little man.

Way, way in the back of your subconscious
I'm talking about.  The fact that I was driving schoolbuses back when us Pinellas County Veterans all met really played a part in how I related to everyone else.  Back then, smoking pot was completely out of the question if I wanted to keep my job AND my commercial drivers license.  It was simply impossible for me to take a casual attitude towards alot of things.

What the fuck is that and what does it have to do with ANYthing?   I met up with a few people a few times a few years back.  I'm not looking back on that with a whole lot of fondness, (well, except for the DC trip, that was fun as shit)  I was a fucking wreck.  I don't and didn't give a rat's ass whether or not you smoked pot!  Why should I give a shit?  Most of my friends don't smoke.  And you shouldn't have given a rat's ass if I DID smoke.  It had no effect on your life.  

It wasn't the pot Bob.  :roll:

Christ, I had enough of my own problems back then.  I had no time or energy to worry about whether or not I was hurting poor Bob;s feelingns.    I didn't know you, you didn't know me.  I didn't really have much of a desire to know you and I tried to just avoid you politely for a while so I wouldn't have to be rude.  You made that impossible.

Wanna know the one thing about you that impressed the hell out of me?  It was them freaking Undie Top things you invented!  I'm sorry if they never took off, maybe they were ahead of their time, but I thought they were cute as hell.  Stuff like that is what makes you a cool person to know.  I hope things work out.

Yeah, right.   :roll:

[Froderik]

"Undie top" things?

Got any pics?? ::seg::

[Anne Bonney]

Given all that i can see why you are less than forgiving of your friend. I suppose you can pity someone but stop your involvement when it gets to the point that it personally effects your life.

Yeah, that's about it.  It starts out as pity, but then I get pissed when I feel that fucking AA judgment coming down on me.

it is a relief that this kid got community service and not a sentence at some wilderness place. I wonder where his dad is in all this. Perhaps he is more able to mentor and discipline the boy in an appropriate and proportional way.

Dad is also a grad, but the washing has come off in his case.   It's a long, complicated story.  He's a decent guy, has his own issues as we all do.  I think he'll be my approach if she decides to try and send the older boy away.  He 's going to continue to get in trouble.  I really don't think she understands how to deal with him at all.  No wonder though, so heavily involved in Stepcraft.

[Anne Bonney]

"Undie top" things?

Got any pics?? ::seg::

Actually, I think so.  I'll check.  they were pretty cool.  Women's tank tops made out of men's jockeys.  You flip them upside down and backwards and cut out the crotch.

I think I just saw those last week, I'll go look.  That was one thing I was kinda proud of.  I was just too screwed up to make a business float.  Who knows, maybe again someday for fun.

[Anne Bonney]

You're not gonna belive this shit now.  I just got a call from my youngest (I have two daughters, 20 & 22).   My "friend" has been emailing her today.  Apparently the friend got on MySpace because that's how her boys found them in the first place a week ro so ago and got in touch with us.  My oldest is very liberal and free spirited.  She holds nothing back, you know exactly where you stand with her and where she stands on things.  There's stuff on her website that would be shocking to some (hell, it would make the checklist for a "teen in need" on one of the program sites, but what teen wouldn't?) and definitely aren't appropriate for 12 or 13 year olds.  My kids haven't used their MySpace pages in probably a year or more, the novelty wore off.  Anyway, my oldest made a poor choice in allowing the boys to view her page, granted, but my question is......why didn't my friend know what her boys were looking at and what was on THEIR pages?  Her oldest has pics of pot buds, sexual talk with girls much older than he and loads of other shit.  My kids are adults, hers are far from it.

The friends emailed my youngest (she likes her best because she's the one with the girly, princess personality, my oldest is more like me) and asked her to disable the boys ability to view her page.  Now the friend and HER youngest are telling MY youngest that she (my youngest) needs to check herself into REHAB!!! because they saw ONE picture of her with a beer in her and and ((((((GASP)))))) she's only 20!!!!!  :roll:   Mind you this is my 'angel' kid.  The one that does nothing wrong, that everyone adores.  She's a little blond all American kid.   First, I can't believe the BALLS of Stepcraft people thinking they have the right to judge someone else's life at all, let alone from a picture on a page, but my youngest?.  Guess she feels like the other one's a lost cause.    And WTF is she teaching HER kids?  Her older is going to end up in big trouble, seriously.  Her youngest is so programmed already that he's telling an adult that she needs rehab off the basis of her having ONE BEER.

Fucking people.   Both these girls couldn't possibly make me more proud.  I've been through struggles with them, especially the older.  She went through her 'fuck you, I'm doing whatever I want" stage.  Scared the crap out of me for about 4 years, but damn!  She's got her CNA, is in school now for LPN towards RN, little sisters working on CNA.  Older has a good job, her own place, decent credit, good friends and a pretty decent guy (finally, the last was a nightmare).  

That's it.  There is no way in hell I'm going to be able to tolerate speaking to her without punching her fucking lights out.  I'll figure out some way to keep track of the boys and if she starts making noises about shipping him off I'll raise holy fukcing hell!!!!!!


I can't believe the fucking BALLS these people have!!!!