Important~ Re: the 14 yo. boy's death at Aspen's Youth Care

[Pitbull Mom]

I am wondering if you want Youthcare to be shut down, or do you
want better procedures for medical evaluation put in place.

Yes to the 1st question. If that can't happen, yes to the 2nd question. Can't just sit around on our butts, have to do SOMEthing.

[Anne Bonney]

I did not mean that the government should be part of the village. but that the "village", or network of family support, is really necessary when raising a child with special needs or challenges.  it's a big part of the problem why there are so many troubled families today. some of us don't have that and have to turn to community resources. Shit happens. People need help. Last year, my husband was in the hospital for 6 months before he died.  Self employed, no disability insurance. I was working full time and had 2 kids, as well as a dying mother. I had little family support, none locally. An old friend from college drove cross country round trip 5 times in 6 months to help me with my kids. I had very limited options. I had to learn how to be a caretaker for a disabled husband, my credit got trashed,  I lost my job.  Wrap around services are supposed to help fill in that void of not having a family network. not looking for a pity party here, just tyring to provide some real world examples of how families can get in serious trouble. Stuff like this happens all the time. I'm not saying there aren't some jerky parents out there who slough off their kids, but from my own experience, they are in the minority.  there are many troubled families that have been hard by unemployment, illnesses, death, disabilities. We can aruge about personal responsiblity all we want, but the bottom line is people need some freakin' help. Some clever folks in Utah have figured out how to cash in on that.

I think your situation is a bit extraordinary PBMom.  You appear to be in the extreme minority of people who are being forced to place your child outside the home.  By forced I mean that you were threatened with charges of abusing your daughter if you didn't remove your son.  Not because you 'felt' forced.  You actually were.  Those situations are exceedingly rare.  Yes, people get hit every day with tragedies, accidents and other hardships.  That doesn't mean it's OK or necessary to place a child outside the home.

I've met many parents who would have sworn that they weren't "that type" to look for someone else to fix their problems, but when they stepped back and looked at the reality of the situation, they got it and finally admitted it to themselves.  It's a difficult thing to do, admit that you failed.  Guilt kept them from seeing that for years.  They would convince themselves that they were just 'doing what was best for my child'.  Just like my dad said and insisted for about 20 years.  He's only just now taking the blinders off and looking at my experience at Straight for what it was.  A nightmare.  Up until a few years ago he was still insisting that he had no choice, that he was petrified for my life.  He now understands that he got caught up in all the Drug War band wagon and allowed Straight to convince him that I was in real danger.  He kept believing, even up until a few years ago, that I was going to DIE because I rejected the way Straight taught me to live.  I was over 20 years out and he was STILL spouting that bullshit.

Guilt will do amazing things to parents.

[Anonymous]

Anne,

Were you placed in a program by force?  

If only this industry could understand how harmful their entrapment practices are!!  Parents are victims too in some, not all, cases.  The programs entrapment practices are NOT helping the family unit, but destroying the trust, if any, between the child and his/her parents when they convince parents to have their child taken away by force.  Convincing parents to lie to the child.  Tricking him/her.  It doesn't take a lot of common sense to know these kinds of entrapment practices would traumatize the child.  The anger the child may feel towards his/her parents can last a lifetime.  

The industry will SELL their "escort service" to desperate parents.  Telling parents it is in the "best-interest" of the child.  

I believe the "escort service" I call kidnapping, only serves the program.  It's all about power and greed.  Get the kid and the money!!

I hope all is well between you and your family.

I am so grateful for the young people like you who are brave enough to tell their stories.

I have been watching this thread when I can be near a computer.  I am moving back home this week.  I've been keeping up with two households since the birth of my grandbaby last October.  Helping my daughter care for this precious little one for the past 11 months.  It's called, "don't want her in Day Care!"  I'll bet you can guess WHY?  Talk about losing trust in people...........

Well, I know that many of you who are following this thread understand that anger is an emotion.  Any child (human being) who has survived a punitive program deserves to feel, and express, anger.  I believe it is far better to allow the survivors to express their hurt and pain, than to have them hold it in until they burst!

You can call yourselves, "TEEN HURT SURVIVORS!"  It wasn't therapy you encountered.  It was abuse!

Sincerely,

Catherine Sutton

[Oz girl]

I think there should be a combination of greater community support for families as well as more access to state based  local services for children with special needs.
This would probably reduce the desire of parents to use programs. Both of my parents worked full time but my family was large and many of my friends families socialised with my parents so there was a strong social support network. i wonder if western societies have become a little insular. As a result every parent who has a difficult teenager imagines the neighbours have the perfect kid and fears judgement when their own child is giving them nightmares. it can become the human eq of keeping up the the joneses

[hanzomon4]

That and t.v. makes parents believe that kids are horrible these days, which isn't true. I'm talking about "normal" kids not "special" ones, the special kids get worked over with an assortment of Dx and expert opinions.

[Pitbull Mom]

Most of the kids at Youth Care were not private pays. They were either funded by their school districts, which means they had to have a special ed plan under IDEA, and would be under the care of a  medical doctor, or their medical insurance paid, which means some doc declared it a medical neccesity.  this group also includes substance abuse. YC did not take court ordered placements. (Probation departments can't pay the high tuition).

Many of the kids were cutters, some were other self harm/suicide attempts, substance abuse, a few conduct disorders. I believe my son, at the time, was the the only Aspergers kid. At least in the house he was in. They have 4 houses there.

Insurance companies scrutinize treatment plans pretty closely, and only approve about 3 - 5 days at a time. Many kids get the boot after 90 days when the insurance stops, unless the parent gets school funding under FAPE.

[Anne Bonney]

Anne,

Were you placed in a program by force?  

If only this industry could understand how harmful their entrapment practices are!!  Parents are victims too in some, not all, cases.  The programs entrapment practices are NOT helping the family unit, but destroying the trust, if any, between the child and his/her parents when they convince parents to have their child taken away by force.  Convincing parents to lie to the child.  Tricking him/her.  It doesn't take a lot of common sense to know these kinds of entrapment practices would traumatize the child.  The anger the child may feel towards his/her parents can last a lifetime.  

The industry will SELL their "escort service" to desperate parents.  Telling parents it is in the "best-interest" of the child.  

I believe the "escort service" I call kidnapping, only serves the program.  It's all about power and greed.  Get the kid and the money!!

I hope all is well between you and your family.

I am so grateful for the young people like you who are brave enough to tell their stories.

I have been watching this thread when I can be near a computer.  I am moving back home this week.  I've been keeping up with two households since the birth of my grandbaby last October.  Helping my daughter care for this precious little one for the past 11 months.  It's called, "don't want her in Day Care!"  I'll bet you can guess WHY?  Talk about losing trust in people...........

Well, I know that many of you who are following this thread understand that anger is an emotion.  Any child (human being) who has survived a punitive program deserves to feel, and express, anger.  I believe it is far better to allow the survivors to express their hurt and pain, than to have them hold it in until they burst!

You can call yourselves, "TEEN HURT SURVIVORS!"  It wasn't therapy you encountered.  It was abuse!

Sincerely,

Catherine Sutton

Thanks for the kind words, it's a little embarrassing to talk about my pain to someone who's lost a child.  I cannot fathom that.

Yes, I was forced into Straight in the early 80's.  They told me that if I signed myself in (this was after an 6 hour 'intake' in a small room surrounded by and being berated, shamed and belittled by other kids in program and staffers) I would only have to stay for a 2 week evaluation, but if I didn't my parents would have me court ordered for 2 years (a lie, they couldn't).  I ended up there 2 years.  The first 8 months were spent on "1st phase", shuffling from 'host home' to host home because I had to earn the "privilege" of returning to my home and my parents.  I made it up to 2nd phase and was set back to 1st phase shortly after for some insignificant rule infraction, real or manifested by them.  I eventually made it up to 4th phase and someone decided I wasn't "shining" anymore, so therefor I must be dishonest and hiding something.  I wasn't and said so.  I was tired.  I got virtually no sleep day after day after day.  Well, that means I'm in denial so the whole group confronted me for a few hours, spitting in my face, calling me a slut, loser, whore, bitch, cunt and whatever else they could hurl in my direction.  They started me over and that means started over.  I eventually began to 'progress' again and just did whatever I had to to get out.

After I got out it, I was required to go to 'aftercare'.  That lasted for about 2 months, and I did something wrong (again, some minor infraction of meaningless rules) and was 'terminated' from the 7th Step Society (the aftercare group).  No one was allowed to speak to me from then on.  Taht would have been great, but I started dating another 'termination', got pregnant (within 4 months of 'graduating').  I was pressured to either have an abortion or get married.  Pressure meaning that Dad followed Straight's advice adn pulled the 'tough love' crap.  I got married, had a baby, had another and decided to get a divorce.  I ddin't like being slapped around by a cokehead.  But....I was (((GASP))) drinking and smoking the occasional joint.  My dad and my ex's parents hired lawyers (Dad got one on the board of Straight) and took my kids.  Remember, I was trying to get out of an abusive situation, clear my head up, get my life together and when I asked for help I was given the 'tough love' speech.  The grandparents couldn't decide who would make the better temp parents, so they split up my girls.

I got them back 3 long years later (it was really difficult being on my own w/ no resources being up against my "dx" from Straight and THEIR lawyers), the grandparents continued to occasionally either take the kids again for some small infraction (like drinking) or threaten to do so.  during this time my ex husband had gotten a DUI manslaughter charge, went to prison, got out and joined AA.  He, off and on when he wasn't coked out, would clean himself up, go to AA, become the golden boy in the judges eyes (for the simple fact that he was in AA, even though eh was in and out and constantly 'relapsing').  I had a therapist tell me once that I lived in a constant and acute state of fear for almost 20 years.  It wasn't until my kids were old enough taht the grandparents and my ex lost power that I really began to heal.


Whew.  Sorry if that was long and repetitive for those who already know what happened to me.

[Anonymous]

whew

[hanzomon4]

:flame:  :flame:  :flame:

[Anonymous]

Anne Bonney

WOW!  What a nightmare............

I hope to someday find ALL the horror stories from the survivors of these programs in a data bank somewhere.  It just reminds me of the days of Hitler.  Many of these programs are run like a concentration camp.

I am so sorry for what you suffered in the hands of these crazy people!

I was raised by a crazy Step-Parent.  I understand  how it takes a long time to heal from mental abuse.  Those of us who  have been there understand this.

Take Care.    

Lost for Words,

Catherine Sutton

[Anne Bonney]

Thanks, ops:  but again, it can't compare with your loss.  

it's all just so insidious it makes me crazy.  I believe that AA and programs that utilize it's methodology are a huge part of this that most people don't want to look at.   I posted in the Straight forum about a friend of mine (ex-friend now).  AA took over being the central part of her life when Straight wasn't anymore.  She's spent all these years and all this energy 'staying sober' and judging everyone around her who had fallen short of that lofty goal.  For what?  She's just as screwed up as I ever was, only now she's programming a new generation, her kids.  To avoid repetition, if you're interested it's here.  Please ignore the childishness between myself and 85 Day Jerk.


http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22939


My dad expected me to follow AA.  When I didn't, I was out of the family.  I was ordered to attend via a custody hearing.  I objected citing religious freedom and was re-ordered.  It wasn't until I stopped believing all these people telling me I was 'diseased' and 'addicted' taht I truly began to start healing and getting a healthy outlook on life.

I also started a thread about AA here.

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22979



It's been a long time coming with plenty of research, reading, talking to people and digging through my own past to come to this realization.  For years I thought, well it does help people (I was wrong, other than the social aspect.  Sources are cited in the above-linked thread)




/end threadjack, sorry.

[Dr. Miller Newton]

Anne Bonney

WOW!  What a nightmare............

I hope to someday find ALL the horror stories from the survivors of these programs in a data bank somewhere.  It just reminds me of the days of Hitler.  Many of these programs are run like a concentration camp.

I am so sorry for what you suffered in the hands of these crazy people!

Oh, PUH-LEEEZE!!  :roll:

These manipulative, lying DRUGGIES brought it ALL on themselves!!  :flame:

THEY were the ones who CHOSE to do drugs! They PUT THEMSELVES in the program! What else were their parents supposed to do with them, anyway?? Have you ever heard of chemical dependency I suggest you read my book, "Gone Way Down," as it describes in horrifying detail the hideous fate that awaits someone stupid enough to think that they can "handle" taking "just one hit" from a joint...

Without Straight, every last one of those goddamn druggie kids would have ended up dead, insane or in jail!!! Yes, Straight SAVED THEIR LIVES, but of course you wouldn't know anything about that, would you? Sure, Straight wasn't perfect -- we HAD to break a few laws along the way -- but it was in the best interest of the families who wanted to DO SOMETHING to help their kids before they ended up KILLING THEMSELVES!!!  :flame:

[Anonymous]

The anger the child may feel towards his/her parents can last a lifetime.

Only if the parents live. *chk-clk*

[Anne Bonney]

Oh, PUH-LEEEZE!!  :roll:

These manipulative, lying DRUGGIES brought it ALL on themselves!!  :flame:

THEY were the ones who CHOSE to do drugs! They PUT THEMSELVES in the program! What else were their parents supposed to do with them, anyway?? Have you ever heard of chemical dependency I suggest you read my book, "Gone Way Down," as it describes in horrifying detail the hideous fate that awaits someone stupid enough to think that they can "handle" taking "just one hit" from a joint...

Oh, I can 'handle' quite a bit more than that Virg.  I came thru your shitpit, didn't I?  I suggest you read about yourself in Help At Any Cost.  Maia did an excellent jorb capturing your special brand of malignant narcissism.

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=22979

Without Straight, every last one of those goddamn druggie kids would have ended up dead, insane or in jail!!! Yes, Straight SAVED THEIR LIVES, but of course you wouldn't know anything about that, would you? Sure, Straight wasn't perfect -- we HAD to break a few laws along the way -- but it was in the best interest of the families who wanted to DO SOMETHING to help their kids before they ended up KILLING THEMSELVES!!!  :flame:

Shouldn't I have been dead and gone long ago then?

How's the blood pressure Virg.  The last time I saw you, you didn't look so good.  :rofl:   I'll be by again soon to check up on ya.  May even meet w/ one of your peers (Antioch priest) to inform him, with a first hand, eye-witness accounting of your atrocities.  How goes the bankruptcy fraud charges, hmm?  :rofl:






btw........thanks for the light!   A good friend obtained a votive candle and some literature Virg had displayed in his "chapel".  We had a good time lighting joints off it the rest of the night.



ANYONE HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY TO VIRGIL?


(((((((((group of 350 motivating))))))))))






It's about that time again too!   :smokin:  ::bandit::

[Anonymous]

Oh, PUH-LEEEZE!!  

These manipulative, lying DRUGGIES brought it ALL on themselves!!  

THEY were the ones who CHOSE to do drugs! They PUT THEMSELVES in the program! What else were their parents supposed to do with them, anyway?? Have you ever heard of chemical dependency??? I suggest you read my book, "Gone Way Down," as it describes in horrifying detail the hideous fate that awaits someone stupid enough to think that they can "handle" taking "just one hit" from a joint...

Without Straight, every last one of those goddamn druggie kids would have ended up dead, insane or in jail!!! Yes, Straight SAVED THEIR LIVES, but of course you wouldn't know anything about that, would you? Sure, Straight wasn't perfect -- we HAD to break a few laws along the way -- but it was in the best interest of the families who wanted to DO SOMETHING to help their kids before they ended up KILLING THEMSELVES!!!
_________________

You sound so angry.  Makes me wonder if you came from a troubled family home environment yourself.  Perhaps dependency?  I can't tell you how many times I heard Steve Cartisano say, "My Mother was a herione addict and my Father abused me."  I believe this man felt compelled to control kids as a result of his own troubled childhood.  I think controlling others helped Cartisano feel IN control of himself.

Allowing these kids to be accountable for taking drugs is all fine and dandy.  But, I don't think it's right to ignor the fact that many of these kids are survivors of an abusive program.  Two wrongs can't make things right.  Pain upon pain compacts the problem.

Many of the so-called "experts" that are SOLD to desperate parents as highly trained and qualified, are no more qualified than a hobo jumping off a train.

You can rant, rave, and curse all you want.  I tend to turn a deaf ear to this kind of behavior.  Some people feel this is the only way to get someones attention.  I listen to logic and intelligent dialogue.  

Straight sounds more like "mind control" than a positive, productive, self help program.  You can't make someone change.  Long lasting change comes from within.  A person has to first recognize they have a problem, then want the change.  This is the healthy way.

I don't BUY what you are selling in your above post.  Sell this to a weak and desperate parent....................

Without Straight every "Godgiven Kid" may NOT have ended up dead, insane or in jail!!!  Yes, Straight may not have saved their lives.  Perhaps they would have made it to adulthood fine.  But then, maybe you wouldn't know anything about that.

I wonder what laws Straight HAD to break along the way--in the "best interest" of their kids?

ANY program engaged in telling a person HOW TO THINK, FEEL, AND ACT, sounds more like brainwashing.

Speaking of laws.  I await the day when the "children" who suffered AND OR died needlessly in these programs are forever remembered as are the people who suffered AND OR were killed by hitler and his followers.

Parent survivor who was sold a "full-time-residential-inpatient-health-care-facility" that turned out to be a "DO or DIE" forced march in Utah's desert sun.

Mother of Michelle