Author Topic: Lawsuit against Hidden Lake Academy should make Hyde nervous  (Read 10021 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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Re: yeah, [i]right[/i]!
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2007, 01:01:19 PM »
Quote from: ""Guest""
I'd like to hear some more about these "more egalitarian finance considerations", especially in light of the substantial amount of mullah the gauld family rakes in every year!  that 33$ plus change doesn't really look so bad in comparison.

what happened to the "practise what you preach" philosophy?  where's the "character" here?  ha ha!  if these people didn't damage some kids as much as they do, I'd laugh them down the drain as one of the bigger jokes of the past century.


 Assuming that this edict came down from one of the headmasters,  you have some one that is part of a family that is nailing between 12x and 20x the federal poverty guide line,  that is make a call that says the students that have discretionary cash at their disposal after paying the tuition that is 2x + the FPG ( for a family of four) can't rent limo's because some of the kids don't have the cash.  Where is the egalitarianism in this? You have rick folk making rules for the rick folk and the not so rich folk.  sounds like the same old same old to me.
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Offline Anonymous

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Lawsuit against Hidden Lake Academy should make Hyde nervous
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2007, 01:27:24 PM »
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Guest""
For the life of me I can't understand how Hyde could take these students in when they clearly didn't have the services or staff to help them. Isn't that worthy of a lawsuit? I'm surprised more parents haven't gone after Hyde.

1.)  And what has happened to these students that Hyde did not "help?"  Where are they now?  What impact, in the long run, did Hyde have on these kids?

2.)  What impact has the shoddy treatment of certain kids had on the so-called "normal" kids, who felt that Hyde was beneficial to them?  How does it feel to be in a "family" where some of your siblings are clearly getting the screws put to them unfairly?

3.)  What take-home message do all kids ultimately get from coming of age in such a dysfunctional "family?"



I was a student at Hyde.  I chose to discontinue my educational path there.  I currently go to Columbia University and am preparing for my career as an educator.  I recommend you discontinue your course of thought.
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Offline Ursus

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Offline Anonymous

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Lawsuit against Hidden Lake Academy should make Hyde nervous
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2007, 02:04:03 PM »
Oh,

  So we are talking the 20x family
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Offline Ursus

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Lawsuit against Hidden Lake Academy should make Hyde nervous
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2007, 02:10:20 PM »
Some reader comments...

Quote from: ""cosmo""
If you read Laura Gauld's book, "The Biggest Job We'll Ever Have", you will learn she is all about control and regulation of every moment in a child's life. She even recommends forcing the "fun" activities. Despite this, Hyde seems like a decent school to me, and no one is forced to attend.
:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Quote from: ""splourde""
Fabulous way of thinking. We should also have a standard pay rate for all jobs and live in state owned apartments. :evil:

Don't think the Gaulds will be too happy with those suggestions...

Quote from: ""wally 3298""
This is a bit over the top. I went to two proms and rode in a limo to one. I believe the cost was split among the three guys riding with their dates and it cost something like $50 or $60 each. That's not so bad.
This is the most important social night of these kids' lives. They spend months choosing the right clothes, the right place to eat, the right transportation. Let them do it their way.
We all spend too much on excesses we don't need. How many of these kids' parents drive SUVs they don't need? How many have houses they heat and cool with a handful of extra rooms?
A limo for one night on prom, that will probably be split among friends is just kids having fun on a night that is supposed to be fancy and over the top. If the students can afford it, let them pay for it. Soon enough it's off to college, where life gets more difficult and demanding, then to the real world where nothing is easy.
They know things in life aren't equal and fair. THEY'VE BEEN IN HIGH SCHOOL FOR FOUR YEARS. They know it better than anyone.
I don't think anyone's going to let the fact that they didn't go to prom in a limo hold them down.
By the way, I went to my first prom in a limo and the second in my mother's 11-year-old Toyota Camry. I don't think it made a bit of difference.

Quote from: ""Fou de Bassan""
What the story fails to mention is that the movement to bus kids to and from proms really has nothing to do with the cost of the limo (especially at places like Hyde -- with parents paying very steep tuition, a limo's cost is a concern? Give me a break!).

The real reason is that they want to keep kids from drinking and driving. I suppose kids can still go to after-prom parties when the bus drops them off back at school, but parents have the option of meeting the bus and knowing their kids are safe. And at Hyde, where all the kids are in dorms, after-prom parties are not an issue at all.

The article also fails to mention that Hyde is a "second chance" prep school that stresses "character building" for kids who have had behavior issues elsewhere. This population is more likely than other students to get into trouble on Prom Night.

So for all these reasons, what Hyde is doing is a wise move, but shame on them for trying to cloak it as a "cost of the limo" issue.

And by the way -- this is front-page news? Feh.

Quote from: ""NECT_Resident""
I was under the impression Hyde was a "last chance" Prep School...

Quote from: ""Norwich Resident""
This is why I love these forums! Every day I learn something new from you posters!

Quote from: ""Chris748s""
I would have rented a limo out of spite, armed with my video camera for a YouTube broadcast. I would have pushed it to the point of being arrested if need be just to prove a point.

Also because they cite the word "Excess" I would have rented the biggest, most gas guzzling, stretch, Hummer limo.


   :rofl:   ::drummer::
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Ursus

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Lawsuit against Hidden Lake Academy should make Hyde nervous
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2007, 02:27:27 PM »
Quote from: ""DontCareToShare""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Quote from: ""Guest""
For the life of me I can't understand how Hyde could take these students in when they clearly didn't have the services or staff to help them. Isn't that worthy of a lawsuit? I'm surprised more parents haven't gone after Hyde.

1.)  And what has happened to these students that Hyde did not "help?"  Where are they now?  What impact, in the long run, did Hyde have on these kids?

2.)  What impact has the shoddy treatment of certain kids had on the so-called "normal" kids, who felt that Hyde was beneficial to them?  How does it feel to be in a "family" where some of your siblings are clearly getting the screws put to them unfairly?

3.)  What take-home message do all kids ultimately get from coming of age in such a dysfunctional "family?"


I was a student at Hyde.  I chose to discontinue my educational path there.  I currently go to Columbia University and am preparing for my career as an educator.  I recommend you discontinue your course of thought.


Pray tell, DontCareToShare, what you find so offensive about this discourse?  Everyone throwing a javelin here has good and generally unassailable personal reasons for doing so.  In light of your voiced "recommendation," I am curious as to why you chose to "discontinue {your} educational path" at Hyde.

Good luck at Columbia!  Are you at Teachers College, or still undergraduate?  I was more familiar with the former when Maxine Green was still a daily presence.

http://www.tc.columbia.edu/centers/ways ... Greene.htm
http://www.tc.columbia.edu/PeaceEd/philosophy.htm
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Offline Anonymous

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Lawsuit against Hidden Lake Academy should make Hyde nervous
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2007, 01:24:02 AM »
Quote from: ""Chris748s""
I would have rented a limo out of spite, armed with my video camera for a YouTube broadcast. I would have pushed it to the point of being arrested if need be just to prove a point.

Also because they cite the word "Excess" I would have rented the biggest, most gas guzzling, stretch, Hummer limo.


 ::roflmao:: ::bwahaha:: ::roflmao:: ::bwahaha::   ::roflmao::
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Offline Surfer Mouse

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Lawsuit against Hidden Lake Academy should make Hyde nervous
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2007, 03:20:11 AM »
Govonor Deval Patrick - Massachussettes  had the choice of two cars offered by the State Police when he recently assumed office.  The $46,000 Cadillac DTS or a $37,000 Chrysler 300C. He chose to lease the $46,000 Cadillac Deville for $1,166 a month instead!  He has called the model  "useful and appropriate".  The news comes as the governor calls for new local taxes and across-the-board spending cuts to cope with what he says is a $1.3  billion deficit.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1786526/posts

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi wants a  Air Force Boeing C-3 ( a military version of the Boeing 757-200) passenger jet that can make nonstop flights to her home district of San Francisco.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17035721/

Perhaps Laura Guald should send them a short letter detailing her moral views on over indulgence and appropriate transportation. It gives me a warm fuzzy  feeling knowing she is there to be able to step in and make the correct moral judgment, and save us from our selves. God Bless.

 :nworthy:
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Offline Surfer Mouse

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Lawsuit against Hidden Lake Academy should make Hyde nervous
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2007, 06:48:33 AM »
New York Times - It must be true

December 10, 2005 – New York Times
Hold the Limo: The Prom's Canceled as Decadent
By PAUL VITELLO

Prom night, that all-American rite of passage that fell out of favor during the anti-establishment 1960's and then made a comeback in the conservative tilt of the Reagan era, probably always inhabited terrain destined to become a battleground in the so-called culture wars.It is about social manners, class, gender roles; and to a more or less open degree, it is about sex.That may explain why recent decisions by two Roman Catholic high school principals on Long Island to cancel proms for the class of 2006 - both citing exasperation with what the educators described as a decadent "prom culture" - seem to have struck a chord well beyond the worlds of Catholics, high schools or Long Island.Newspaper editorial writers, social scientists and parents across the country linked through Web sites have responded in the past two months with what seems like a giant exhalation of relief, as if someone had finally said what they had long feared to say."Strike up the orchestra for Brother Kenneth Hoagland, principal of Kellenberg Memorial High School in Uniondale, N.Y.," read an Oct. 23 editorial in The Chicago Tribune. "Not because he has canceled the Long Island school's spring prom but because in doing so he provoked what should be local discussions nationwide about prom night activities and about parents and educators who don't do their jobs."Underlying the concern seems to be a widespread uncertainty about the coming-of-age ritual embodied in the modern prom - the $500 to $1,000 spent on dress, limo and parties before and after the actual event. It has become not uncommon for parents to sign leases for houses, where couples room together, for post-prom weekend events or for parents to authorize boat excursions in which under-age drinking is not just winked at but expected.Trumping it all, of course, is the uncertainty about sex.

"Common parlance tells us that this is a time to lose one's virginity," Brother Hoagland and other administrators of Kellenberg High wrote in a letter to parents in March, warning them that the prom might be canceled unless parents stopped financing what, in effect, the school considered bacchanals. "It is a time of heightened sexuality in a culture of anything goes," the letter added. "The prom has become a sexual focal point. This is supposed to be a dance, not a honeymoon."Six months after the initial letter, administrators canceled the prom by fiat, citing not just sex and alcohol use, but also what they described as materialism run amok.A month later, in November, administrators at another Roman Catholic school on Long Island, Chaminade High School in Mineola, followed suit, explaining that the prom was being canceled because its decadence and "showcase of affluence" were "opposed to our value system."Both principals reported receiving letters of support and requests for interviews from all over the world. British, Australian, Japanese and Ukrainian newspapers, for instance, ran prominent features about the principals' bold stand against American decadence.
Whether those "local discussions nationwide" urged by The Chicago Tribune lead to a larger consensus about proms, or remain small countercultural acts in what has become a $2.7 billion prom industry, some observers viewed them as opening an interesting new front in the continuing battle over American values."I think there is a general desire to bring religious values into public life, and these actions against the prom seem like signs of that," said John Farina, a researcher at Georgetown University who studies the intersection of religion and culture. "To some extent, it reflects the influence of John Paul II - his willingness to confront and resist the dominant culture. As a teacher, I wish more educators had that kind of backbone."

An opposing view was expressed by George M. Kapalka, a professor of psychological counseling at Monmouth University in West Long Branch, N.J.Resisting unacceptable behavior and banning it, he said, represent two different spirits in education. "This is just another example of the 'just say no' policy, which has failed miserably wherever it's been applied," Professor Kapalka said. "It would be better to start the conversation with kids about values earlier than to wait until senior year and ban the prom."Among disappointed students, there was a sense that the timing of the ban was arbitrary."It was like a slap in the face," said Shane Abrams, a 17-year-old Chaminade senior. "A lot of kids feel like: 'Why us? Why this year?' Why didn't they ban the prom last year, or the year before?" Countering the charges of prom extravagance, a number of students pointed out that the school was spending about $20 million on an athletic center, an expense they said was extravagant, also.Chaminade's headmaster, the Rev. James Williams, said the decision to cancel the senior prom this year was based on an accumulation of evidence that "the modern culture of the prom has become toxic and beyond remediation."He added: "It's part of a larger issue. Why are sweet 16 parties becoming more like weddings? Why are otherwise moderate kids suddenly pressured to go wild on one night at the end of four years of Chaminade education? "We are saying we admit that this takes place, and we won't be part of it anymore."William J. Doherty, a professor of family studies at the University of Minnesota and author of "Take Back Your Kids," a study about overscheduled children, said in a phone interview that prom excesses like those cited by Brother Hoagland and Father Williams were typical of what he calls "consumer-driven parenting.""We have parents heavily involved in orchestrating their children's experience because of this notion that experiences can be purchased," Dr. Doherty said. In the Minneapolis-St. Paul area, he said, he knew of one mother who did not want her daughter to go on a senior class trip to Cancun, but would not forbid it. "Her comment was 'how sad' it would be if her daughter was the only one at her lunch table to miss that experience."It's not that a whole generation of parents is crazy," Dr. Doherty said. "It's that there is a subset of parents who are crazy - and the rest don't want their kids to miss out."Prom night may never replace abortion on the front line of the culture wars, but in small increments, the issue of prom night does seem to be forcing itself onto the agenda generally described as family values.
Web sites ranging from those of the conservative Concerned Women for America to the nonpartisan Berkeley Parents Network, to those of various Islamic and Orthodox Jewish organizations, have in recent years posted advice to parents about proms, most of it highly cautionary.

In 2002, after several students who attended a junior prom were hospitalized for alcohol poisoning, the administrators at Rye High School in Westchester County began a dialogue with students and parents about how to proceed. One option was to cancel the prom.
"But we came up with a compromise," said Jim Rooney, the principal.Since 2003, Rye students attending the prom have to report to school that evening with at least one parent. The parent must sign a consent form and leave a phone number where he or she can be reached. All students then travel on a coach bus, provided by the school, to and from the prom - no limos, no sneaking drinks."The before-prom gathering has become a nice tradition," Mr. Rooney said. "The parents and kids gather in our courtyard for pictures, and I don't think the kids would give that up for anything, at this point."On the other hand, he admitted, the school has no control over what happens after the prom bus drops seniors off back at the school. After-prom parties happen. It is almost assumed that students will seek memorable experiences according to their own standards. "A lot of them go off to these Chelsea bars," Mr. Rooney said. "I understand that most of those places are quite porous."

 ::read::
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Offline Ursus

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Lawsuit against Hidden Lake Academy should make Hyde nervous
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2007, 07:14:11 AM »
Quote
An opposing view was expressed by George M. Kapalka, a professor of psychological counseling at Monmouth University in West Long Branch, N.J.
Resisting unacceptable behavior and banning it, he said, represent two different spirits in education. "This is just another example of the 'just say no' policy, which has failed miserably wherever it's been applied," Professor Kapalka said. "It would be better to start the conversation with kids about values earlier than to wait until senior year and ban the prom."


Personally, I think a great deal of the concern lies more with the "sex" issue than with the "excess expenditure" issue.  There is an interesting thread on the Open Free For All forum re. Purity Balls "where fathers take their pubescent daughters to some kind of prom like event where the girl gets a ring and signs something claiming she will not have sex until marriage. The dad then passes the ring to the husband."  Talk about excess!

http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?t=21894
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Offline Surfer Mouse

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Lawsuit against Hidden Lake Academy should make Hyde nervous
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2007, 11:10:53 AM »
The Spoof

Riding in a Limo can be dangerous too...

Man Rushes Pope-Mobile

VATICAN CITY - A 27 year old German man wearing sunglasses, a pink T-shirt, dark shorts and a beige baseball cap jumped over the barricade and attempted to commandeer the Pope mobile. He held onto it for only a few seconds before Holy Water was tossed on him and he released his grip."It burns...it burns..." he screamed as he thrashed about on the ground. The Pope was not hurt but appeared pretty pissed off. "Damn, right it burns. Don't ever touch my ride again," he berated the man over his shoulder as the procession continued the rest of the way without incident.The man reportedly told authorities that he was simply trying to give the Pope his business card. "I just wanted to pimp his ride, that's all. I mean, look at it. It's screaming for a make-over. Now, I figure some spinning red rims and maybe a couple of cobalt blue lightening bolts across the door to begin with..."

After listening to what the man intended to do with the Pope mobile, Rev. Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, appeared briefly before the media, still ashen-faced...he declared the man to be "mentally imbalanced." "What he wants to do with the Pope mobile is just plain wacked," he said. "I mean, a spinning, gold-trimmed Prophecies of Fatima license plate with neon outline? Neon? This is the Pope we're talking about here, not some TV evangelist." Vatican police took the unidentified man to an undisclosed hospital for psychiatric treatment. Remarking about his attire, Vatican security noted, "He needs some serious help with that fashion statement. Dressed like that, there was no way in Hell that the Pope was going to let him anywhere near his ride."
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Offline Deborah

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Lawsuit against Hidden Lake Academy should make Hyde nervous
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2007, 02:53:51 AM »
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Personally, I think a great deal of the concern lies more with the "sex" issue than with the "excess expenditure" issue.


I tend to agree with you.
"Excess Expenditure" is what this country thrives on. It's what most strive for- to earn loads of money and spend it frivolously and wastefully.  
It's partly, sometimes primarily, what programs profess to be best at-
"Prepping" kids for college, not to persue what actually interests them. It's certainly what most parents want- their kid to finish school and get accepted to a prestigous university, college at the least.
Programs frequently define their 'success' by how many kids move on to college.
"Prepping" them to persue a degree and earn big bucks so they can become excessly expending consumers.
 
What they don't want is negative press associated with their program/school which might result from post-prom excesses. This is more a zero tolerance/ protect our image issue than and an excessive expenditure issue.

What? Are they really believing that kids stay virgins and refrain from substances all through high school, saving it for that special night? Hmmm. I seriously doubt that.
And, ultimately, isn't it still a parent's job to know where their kid is and what they're doing post-prom?
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gt;>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Hidden Lake Academy, after operating 12 years unlicensed will now be monitored by the state. Access information on the Federal Class Action lawsuit against HLA here: http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17700

Offline Anonymous

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Hadn't thought about that.
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2007, 08:39:43 AM »
Hadn't even thought about that:

Quote from: ""Deborah""
What they don't want is negative press associated with their program/school which might result from post-prom excesses. This is more a zero tolerance/ protect our image issue than and an excessive expenditure issue.


Are you saying that Hyde was more concerned about what students might do in or to the town of Woodstock in the aftermath?  Prom was held off campus.  I bet the locals would be more than interested in that issue, ha ha ha!
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Offline Ursus

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Lawsuit against Hidden Lake Academy should make Hyde nervous
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2007, 09:28:02 AM »
Quote from: ""Deborah""
And, ultimately, isn't it still a parent's job to know where their kid is and what they're doing post-prom?


See Joe Gauld's piece on "Isn't Hyde Ever Wrong?" re. just what Hyde thinks of parent's say in their kids upbringing while they are at Hyde:

Since kids--and their parents--have been far more immersed in this counter growth culture than has Hyde, Hyde can be far more objective about how to best address the true growth needs of kids. And given the limited time available, Hyde insists on being the final judge on growth issues. We are in a better position than parents to determine a student's true best and further we consider our commitment to help each student realize that best a sacred trust.

So--Yes, we may be wrong, and thus we appreciate all the input we can get. However in the end, we urge parents
that until graduation to defer to Hyde's judgment, not their own. To instead accept their own judgment becomes a clear statement to their children that the Hyde experience is simply an add-on to old family dynamics, and not a new beginning for the entire family.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=17336&start=14
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Offline Anonymous

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Lawsuit against Hidden Lake Academy should make Hyde nervous
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2007, 10:35:33 PM »
Quote from: ""Deborah""
Quote from: ""Ursus""
Personally, I think a great deal of the concern lies more with the "sex" issue than with the "excess expenditure" issue.

I tend to agree with you.
"Excess Expenditure" is what this country thrives on. It's what most strive for- to earn loads of money and spend it frivolously and wastefully.  
It's partly, sometimes primarily, what programs profess to be best at-
"Prepping" kids for college, not to persue what actually interests them. It's certainly what most parents want- their kid to finish school and get accepted to a prestigous university, college at the least.
Programs frequently define their 'success' by how many kids move on to college.
"Prepping" them to persue a degree and earn big bucks so they can become excessly expending consumers.
 
What they don't want is negative press associated with their program/school which might result from post-prom excesses. This is more a zero tolerance/ protect our image issue than and an excessive expenditure issue.

What? Are they really believing that kids stay virgins and refrain from substances all through high school, saving it for that special night? Hmmm. I seriously doubt that.
And, ultimately, isn't it still a parent's job to know where their kid is and what they're doing post-prom?


I wonder whether Maine and Connecticut will follow suit and begin to regulate Hyde.
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