Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Aspen Education Group
Lone Star Expeditions
Deborah:
--- Quote ---perhaps if the wilderness industry took only kids who volunteered, was non profit and employed professionals who did not view emotional pain or substance abuse as moral failure the wilderness side of this industry would do some good. Afterall some troubled kids do want help. But i cant think of any sane person who wants to be uncomforable, exhausted and isolated from any comforts in a bid to "get better"
--- End quote ---
Who wrote:
--- Quote ---This would be nice, but I fear very expensive. If it could be subsidized by the state and get medical insurance buy-in to help offset some of the costs it may work. It would be great to see a pilot program along this line.
--- End quote ---
Sh0uld the kids suffer because it's cost prohibitive to do it 'better'?
Our tax dollars sh0uld not subsidize programs that are not evidence-based, if they sh0uld subsidize any programs. Insurance already pays for programs, as does federal/local tax dollars via school districts, and low interest 'education' loans. That's enough 'subsidy' for an industry that hasn't even proven efficacy.
Oz girl:
Actually I was thinking more of short term, usually run by charity outward bound type programs. there are a few of them here. i dont want to sing their praises because I have never observed them closely enough to be sure that they are kosher but i do have an open mind toward them at this stage. The jury is still out on their actual effectiveness but both of them are being studied for outcomes
here is what i do know about the 2 i have looked at extensively
-They usually go for about a week or 2. Sometimes there are a few weekends devoted to practicing bush skills before embarking
-the kids always go voluntarily and are usually economically disadvantged or having minor criminal issues. If a kid has a drug issue he may be unable to go if the drug taking hs been severe enough to make him physically unfit for trekking. This is reviewed once the kid has a better hold on the habit.
-The idea is team work and achivement and the exercises are specifically geared around this.
-the "therapy" is in achieving actual goals. there is no sitting around telling the group what you did wrong or impact letters or any of that humiliating shit.
-The philosophy is not one of tough love. in the case of the 2 where i have spoken to the staff they both sounded like they thought i was crazy when I asked about whether kids unable to make a fire have to eat cold etc.
http://www.operationflinders.org/index.php
www.jss.org.au/media/docs/EvaluationWTP.doc
TheWho:
--- Quote ---geez, this guy is a fucking idiot with no moral compass. it's a shame you ever reproduced, who. your kid is now stuck with a lifetime of an uncaring, disconnected weirdo of a father. as you were told before by someone with common sense: SHAME ON YOU, WHO! you are a shameful individual that promotes businesses that harm children for profit. you are the lowest form of human being that exists. at least deborah sticks up for the KIDS, and that's what matters. fuck the staff if they can't take it. it's their fault and their employers' fault for hiring unqualified, uneducated hacks, not deborah's for POINTING IT OUT.
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This is exactly the mentality I am talking about. No one can see past their own hatred. What you are dong is abusive and wrong.
If your child always wanted to design cars and had a passion for it and worked his butt off to become an engineer at Ford Motor Company and there are a group of people that feel the cars should have twice as many air bags than they presently do, preventing countless deaths we could ridicule your son and paste pictures of him all over the internet for being part of such a corrupt industry? Point at his hobbies of model building and laugh. Would this be right? Could we say “screw the staff they can take it, its their fault and their employers for hiring them”
We could all justify abusing your son because he chose to be part of a corrupt industry that when it turned out he didn’t quit his job right away and continues to be part of the industry we could harass him with emails and phones calls….
Oz girl:
--- Quote from: ""TheWho"" ---
This is exactly the mentality I am talking about. No one can see past their own hatred. What you are dong is abusive and wrong.
If your child always wanted to design cars and had a passion for it and worked his butt off to become an engineer at Ford Motor Company and there are a group of people that feel the cars should have twice as many air bags than they presently do, preventing countless deaths we could ridicule your son and paste pictures of him all over the internet for being part of such a corrupt industry? Point at his hobbies of model building and laugh. Would this be right? Could we say “screw the staff they can take it, its their fault and their employers for hiring them”
We could all justify abusing your son because he chose to be part of a corrupt industry that when it turned out he didn’t quit his job right away and continues to be part of the industry we could harass him with emails and phones calls….
--- End quote ---
:roll: Who are you kidding. these people advertise on the net their name, face and distinct lack of qualification. If there is a discussion of the unethical practices of the company they work for and they advertise as being a part of this then they will be a part of the criticism.
lets use another analogy
If your son had always wanted to jail and bully those smaller and weaker than he and worked his butt off by passionately being a sports fan and getting a passing grade in yr 12 (or failing that a GED ::roflmao:: ) just so that he could work for an organisation which Americas favourite TV asshole recommended and you felt that such an industry was inherently corrupt and his lack of education illustrated its corruption would it be ok to point this out on a forum?
We could all justify questioning both the wider industry and your sons role in it? We could all wonder why his online CV talked about his love of sport but NOT his SPECIFIC QUALIFICATION?
TheWho:
Oz Girl wrote:
--- Quote ---Who are you kidding. these people advertise on the net their name, face and distinct lack of qualification. If there is a discussion of the unethical practices of the company they work for and they advertise as being a part of this then they will be a part of the criticism.
--- End quote ---
Not to post their pictures and names, you are wrong, Oz Girl.
Do you really believe when people ask what they do they respond “I work for a corrupt organization with unethical practices”? These are your views not theirs. You are part of a group that disagrees with their industry, they see it as helping kids. When the school ask if they can post their names and pictures with a brief description on their web page they say sure. But it isn’t right to take their photos and post them on forums and ridicule what they do.
When you hand your credit card to a waitress there is an implied trust. Sure she could give your Credit number to the buss boy if he asks for it, she wouldn’t be stealing right? But it is unethical.
If you asked these people if you could use their photo that would be a different story.
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