Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Aspen Education Group
Lone Star Expeditions
TheWho:
Oz Girl wrote:
--- Quote ---…….. What i said was that some kids probably do exaggerate symptoms because they are desperately miserable. The focus of the on the ground staff who are often young and clueless on catching kids out or seeing how far they can push them as opposed to helping them. So the miserable deteriorate and the ill dont get help………….
--- End quote ---
I think what you pointed out is key and points to a training issue. If they could get more mature and better trained personnel I think it would go a long way in preventing incidences like Ian’s.
--- Quote ---perhaps if the wilderness industry took only kids who volunteered, was non profit and employed professionals who did not view emotional pain or substance abuse as moral failure the wilderness side of this industry would do some good. Afterall some troubled kids do want help. But i cant think of any sane person who wants to be uncomforable, exhausted and isolated from any comforts in a bid to "get better"
--- End quote ---
This would be nice, but I fear very expensive. If it could be subsidized by the state and get medical insurance buy-in to help offset some of the costs it may work. It would be great to see a pilot program along this line.
Deborah:
Who wrote:
--- Quote ---I am sure many changes have taken place to their process fairly quickly once they determined the root cause of Ians death, whether it was attributed to the heat, stopping of medication, lack of training, preexisting condition or a combination of all of them.
--- End quote ---
Ian endured enough disrespect while he was living, don't further disrepect him by minimizing what happened to him at Skyline Journey. Did you not bother to read the article, or are you intentionally misleading the readers? The root cause of Ian's death is known, no one stopped his meds- you've confused his case with Matthew's, 'lack of training' wasn't an issue- just 'bad' training, and there was no preexisiting condition except that he was grossly obese. She was hiking him in temps that exceeded the state maximum and Ian had no water.
Here's the changes that occured.
Hale walked, in exchange for her testimony against SJ- which amounted to a carefully choreographed defense of SJ and herself.
Skyline Journey's license was ultimately revoked.
They opened a wilderness program for young adults called Distant Drums.
When the heat subsided they started taking teens again.
Utah lowered the maximum temperature to 90*.
Ian, Matthew, Michelle, Aaron, Gina, and others have been guinea pigs for this industry. An industry in which philosphy over-rides common sense.
Kids have been dying from exposure to the elements, illegal restraints, medical neglect, preventable accidents, and the "faker excuse" in programs since the industry's inception. They're still dying from those things. What has changed?
Damned ironic that this industry imposes such harsh 'consequences' on the kids, claiming it's the only way to teach/change them, but experience none themselves. At best a slap on the hand, a little negative media, the minor inconvenience of moving and changing their name.
TheWho:
Deborah wrote:
--- Quote ---Ian endured enough disrespect while he was living, don't further disrepect him
--- End quote ---
I have not disrespected any of the children. Deborah, of all people to say this!! You go out of your way to post these young peoples names on the internet who are innocent and are only trying to help kids who are disadvantaged, at-risk and are working for low pay to gain experience. If you read back, you have disrespected more people here than anyone. You ridicule their backgrounds, the education they receive, post their photos. How would you like someone to post your kids picture on the internet and poke fun at his education and the career he has choosen?
You have very little respect for anyone, Deborah.
Oz girl:
--- Quote from: ""TheWho"" ---I think what you pointed out is key and points to a training issue. If they could get more mature and better trained personnel I think it would go a long way in preventing incidences like Ian’s.
--- End quote ---
The staff are deliberately trained to think this way. Because the whole point is "healing" through pain and hardship. Look at the kind of shit they were actually willing to broadcast on brat camp. A kid had an athsma attack and was also beside herself with homesickness and qweeping copiously for her mother. This was not helping the asthma. Because the attack was not bad enough for her to be hospitalised as she claimed the staff gloated about how they were right all along and she was a liar. Because they were busy radioing base camp to prove that it was untrue that she normally was rushed to hospital as she claimed, it did not occur to any of them to comfort her which even though this is one of the first things you are supposed to do to calm and stabilize the person having the attack.
http://www.nationalasthma.org.au/html/e ... /index.asp
i wonder if the cameras would have kept rolling if her lips began to go blue? if she had collapsed? Perhaps if she had stopped breathing all together?
How could anyone want this for their kid? If this is what makes it to camera it is little wonder that some kids actually do die. The thing that would be laughable if it was not tragic is that everytime this happens the response is always both cruel and idiotic.
Firstly there is this sense of oops we should prolly look at tightening the rule as if it were some kind of annoying bank error.
Second there is a defense of the incompotence. He was a difficult kid... most of our kids fake..... or the latest less mean spirited -well he was a really fun guy so we thought he was just doing for shits and giggles.....
never once is the overall ridiculous philosophy of hardship and deprivation challenged. Never do they get to thinking about the inherent dangers of sending uncooperative kids into the wilderness to have nature provide penalty for misdeeds. Never is the morality of making kids cry on a regular basis considered.
There is also no financial sense in getting beter trained on the ground staff because no well educated graduate from an appropriate field is going to work for such shitty wages! Any company's no 1 responsibility is to the shareholders. If salaries go up then so does the already astronomical price. As it is the market is relatively limited even with all of the loans they have.
As i read this i realise how cold it sounds. But these kids are a commodity to aspen and its imatators. I just dont understand how you cant see this. Particularly if you work in marketing.
Troll Control:
geez, this guy is a fucking idiot with no moral compass. it's a shame you ever reproduced, who. your kid is now stuck with a lifetime of an uncaring, disconnected weirdo of a father. as you were told before by someone with common sense: SHAME ON YOU, WHO! you are a shameful individual that promotes businesses that harm children for profit. you are the lowest form of human being that exists. at least deborah sticks up for the KIDS, and that's what matters. fuck the staff if they can't take it. it's their fault and their employers' fault for hiring unqualified, uneducated hacks, not deborah's for POINTING IT OUT.
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