Split from ASR: Private School or RTC

[Troll Control]

Agreed!! The child needs to be place in the ?Least restrictive environment?, for some this is a therapists office for others it is a lock down psych or jail.

And, again, I'll use your kid as an example.  You've stated many times that your daughter had no psychiatric disorder and was not diagnosed as having any psychological problems.

So, my question is "What's the least restrictive environment for kids who carry no psychiatric diagnosis and therefore need no 'treatment' for such?"

See, by definition kids carrying no diagnosis need no treatment.  How do you explain coerced psychological treatment for those with no mental hygiene issues?

Also, you generalize when you say any kid can walk out of any TBS at any time without restraint or coercion.  That is a false statement, Who.  Demonstrably false.  Again, this is why nobody listens to your POV.

[TheWho]

And, again, I'll use your kid as an example. You've stated many times that your daughter had no psychiatric disorder and was not diagnosed as having any psychological problems.

So, my question is "What's the least restrictive environment for kids who carry no psychiatric diagnosis and therefore need no 'treatment' for such?"

I refer this to the child?s psychologist or therapist.  I believe as a parent you need to start at the local level and try to work with a therapist as one of the initial steps for your child.  For some children the least restrictive would be a home environment for others it would require a more restrictive setting.  For my daughter the TBS was a good balance for her and worked out well and was the least restrictive path we could have taken.
If a child doesn?t need treatment then there is no action needed.  

Also, you generalize when you say any kid can walk out of any TBS at any time without restraint or coercion. That is a false statement, Who. Demonstrably false. Again, this is why nobody listens to your POV.

Calm down, we are in the ASR thread, DJ, but you are right we wouldn?t want to make the statement or jump to the assumption that all TBS?s are the same would we?  (wink)  At least you didn?t point your finger and yell liar, liar.  This is a more civil discussion.

[Troll Control]

If a child doesn?t need treatment then there is no action needed.

"Needs treatment" means "has been diagnosed with a quantifiable mental illness."  If no diagnosed disorder, no treatment of any kind is needed.  

What was your daughter's psychiatric diagnosis for which she required extremely restrictive (residential) treatment?

If they carry no diagnosis from a professional, what are they being "treated" for?

How can the least restrictive environment for someone with no diagnosis be out of home placement?

How do you justify forcing patients into treatment even though they have never been diagnosed with any disorder?

If, by professional standards, only kids (or people in general) need out of home placement if they are a danger to themselves or others (i.e. tried to kill self or other), how is it justified that kids are sent to out of home placements for no psychiatric reasons whatsoever?

[TheWho]

If a child doesn?t need treatment then there is no action needed.

"Needs treatment" means "has been diagnosed with a quantifiable mental illness."  If no diagnosed disorder, no treatment of any kind is needed.  

What was your daughter's psychiatric diagnosis for which she required extremely restrictive (residential) treatment?

If they carry no diagnosis from a professional, what are they being "treated" for?

How can the least restrictive environment for someone with no diagnosis be out of home placement?

How do you justify forcing patients into treatment even though they have never been diagnosed with any disorder?

If, by professional standards, only kids (or people in general) need out of home placement if they are a danger to themselves or others (i.e. tried to kill self or other), how is it justified that kids are sent to out of home placements for no psychiatric reasons whatsoever?

Many of these kids are ?at risk? and have gotten off track.  To wait until they are in their mid-twenties to be diagnosed with a mental illness or addicted to heroin, HIV , missed education or worse before taking action is an antiquated approach at best.  The schools offer a proactive approach.  I realize the importance for many people to label others and the need to have a mental illness in order to get services or help.  But there are parents with kids who need a little help to get them back on track.  Some may have clinical disorders some may not,  the kids are presently not responding to local solutions so further steps are needed.  Services which require the child to be away from the home and placed in a safe environment where they can focus on their issues without interfering outside stimuli and also further their education.

[Troll Control]

But there are parents with kids who need a little help to get them back on track.

It's called "parenting."  You should try it sometime.

Of course local resources can't help a kid that has nothing wrong with them.  Adolescence is not a pathology to be treated.  

I can see you being turned away for demanding that someone take custody of your kid and force her into therapy even though she has no diagnosable disorder.  I'd say "Looks like you're the one who needs some help there, Dad.  Kid tests out as normal in every respect.  There's no way I'll treat your kid just because you said so and you'll pay top dollar for it!"

This is where ASR steps in.  They will treat your kid based on no diagnosis and force her to participate in therapy several times a week and punish her as a matter of routine simply because you said so and will pay top dollar for it.  

It's immoral, unethical and should be illegal.

[TheWho]

Of course local resources can't help a kid that has nothing wrong with them. Adolescence is not a pathology to be treated.

Ah?full circle...so back to the ?turn a deaf ear and it will go away?.  The ?Do nothing mentality?.  Well there are many families that disagree with you and many more that have healthy kids who are back on track because of these programs.  Maybe you wouldn?t care enough to get your kids help if they were in crisis or maybe you would gamble and close your eyes and hope for the best.
But there are many parents who care very much and need to do all they can for their children and wont trust their child?s future to chance.

[Troll Control]

Maybe you wouldn?t care enough to get your kids help if they were in crisis or maybe you would gamble and close your eyes and hope for the best.

Awww...strictly with personal insults, but I'll bite.

I would raise my kid correctly and not send him/her away to a treatment center for being a teenager.

You keep saying you sent your kid to treatment, but you never say what the treatment's for.

[Troll Control]

But there are many parents who care very much and need to do all they can for their children and wont trust their child?s future to chance.

Why the false dichotomy?  Either you send your kid to a treatment facility or do nothing?  Doesn't that leave out a few options?  For normal people it does, but for programmies, it doesn't.  If you don't place your kid at their facility, then you're doing "nothing."  That's a load of shit.

You chose to have someone else deal with your familiy's problems.  When the going got tough (which I doubt it ever really did), you folded like a cheap suitcase.  In reality, you did nothing, then sent your kid away so you could continue doing nothing.

[TheWho]

You chose to have someone else deal with your familiy's problems.

Its called help, DJ, I don?t pretend to have all the answers like you do?..too bad your family will never have the benefit of professional help outside the home if there is ever a need for it

[Troll Control]

You chose to have someone else deal with your familiy's problems.

Its called help, DJ, I don?t pretend to have all the answers like you do?..too bad your family will never have the benefit of professional help outside the home if there is ever a need for it

Where do you get this from?  Are you saying I would withhold medical care?  Why would you make a statement like this?  I just wouldn't do what you did.  I wouldn't put my kid in a residential facility for no quantifiable reason.  That's what you did.  I just said I disagreed with it.

[TheWho]

You chose to have someone else deal with your familiy's problems.

Its called help, DJ, I don?t pretend to have all the answers like you do?..too bad your family will never have the benefit of professional help outside the home if there is ever a need for it

Where do you get this from?  Are you saying I would withhold medical care?  Why would you make a statement like this?  I just wouldn't do what you did.  I wouldn't put my kid in a residential facility for no quantifiable reason.  That's what you did.  I just said I disagreed with it.

Well if you are not going to let anyone else deal with your families problems then how will you get you family the help it needs if a medical problem occured?

[Deborah]

Of course local resources can't help a kid that has nothing wrong with them. Adolescence is not a pathology to be treated.

Ah?full circle...so back to the ?turn a deaf ear and it will go away?.  The ?Do nothing mentality?.  Well there are many families that disagree with you and many more that have healthy kids who are back on track because of these programs.  Maybe you wouldn?t care enough to get your kids help if they were in crisis or maybe you would gamble and close your eyes and hope for the best.
But there are many parents who care very much and need to do all they can for their children and wont trust their child?s future to chance.

What was your daughter "treated" for? As I recall, truancy.

[TheWho]

Of course local resources can't help a kid that has nothing wrong with them. Adolescence is not a pathology to be treated.

Ah?full circle...so back to the ?turn a deaf ear and it will go away?.  The ?Do nothing mentality?.  Well there are many families that disagree with you and many more that have healthy kids who are back on track because of these programs.  Maybe you wouldn?t care enough to get your kids help if they were in crisis or maybe you would gamble and close your eyes and hope for the best.
But there are many parents who care very much and need to do all they can for their children and wont trust their child?s future to chance.

What was your daughter "treated" for? As I recall, truancy.

No, it was more than just not going to school.  That was just part of it.  She was struggling in many areas and we worked with local therapists to help her get back on track, to no avail.  If TBS?s did not exist, I am not sure what path we would have taken or options that would have helped.

[RobertBruce]

Hmmm. Not sure I said that. You keep wanting me to say I dismiss abuse when I don?t.

Sure you do. I don't need you to say it because its already obvious. What I'm looking for from you at this point is either a justification for why you continue to dismiss the claims of abuse or an alternative explination for your statement. If you've got one I'm all ears.

Cindy you cannot continue to make statements stating such things as:

Do you think this can happen over and over again and not make the headline news? Fox news would love to feature this stuff, any news agency would (even if it were half true). But it is not, we know that because parents would shut these places down in a heart beat if they even used language they hear here on fornits against them!  



Quote:
Imagine what would happen if a kid got raped or abused on a Therapeutic boarding school or all places!! Talk about a story and headlines!! They have been operating for decades???.


Quote:
After 2 decades there is enough "lack of incidences evidence" to indicate that many of these places are safe. Something would have surfaced, after 20 years, if there was a systemic problem.

In the above statements you waver between declaring the abuse to a rare occurence or never occuring at all.

The above statements are clear examples of you dismissing peoples claims of abuse, again if you have an alternative explination I'm all ears.

I think what we need to establish is where kids can be the safest from being abused. I think TBS?s are a safe place, I think some public schools are less safe.

Again you prove that you have an agenda. You state we need to find the answer to something, only to immediatly turn around and state you that you feel you have the answer. You cannot expect people to be willing to have these conversations with you when you already declare yourself to have such an obvious bias.

I believe some of the numbers are supporting this assertion.

Numbers? What numbers Cindy? We haven't even begun to look at comparing abuse in the public sector versus the PTS. All we've looked at to date has been deaths. Deaths are not quite the same thing as abuse. This only serves as further evidence of your agenda. You're citing numbers that havent even be examined yet.

You may have a different point of view, Bob, It doesn?t make you intrinsically wrong, we are just looking at it from different angles. I could accuse you of not seeing it my way and dismissing the fact that the public school systems are always in the news with stories of teachers raping students and shootings etc. and you dismiss the fact that TBS?s are never in the news

I've yet to dismiss atrocities committed in public school. If you believe I have please provide a link to it and I'll either explain myself or apologize. Until you do so I'm going to go ahead and stand by my comment that I have never done any such thing. Therefore you cannot accuse me (at least justifiable as I can accuse you) of dismissing anything.

Too much time, should have been done in 3 years tops. Look at how quickly it took to get regulation on the food industry.

Why then arent you working along side us to get these places regulated?

Based on some preliminary numbers we are seeing.

What numbers? Where are they and when can we see them, and who once again is this mysterious "we" you keep referring to?

[Troll Control]

You chose to have someone else deal with your familiy's problems.

Its called help, DJ, I don?t pretend to have all the answers like you do?..too bad your family will never have the benefit of professional help outside the home if there is ever a need for it

Where do you get this from?  Are you saying I would withhold medical care?  Why would you make a statement like this?  I just wouldn't do what you did.  I wouldn't put my kid in a residential facility for no quantifiable reason.  That's what you did.  I just said I disagreed with it.

Well if you are not going to let anyone else deal with your families problems then how will you get you family the help it needs if a medical problem occured?

For medical problems we go to the doctor?  Where do you go?

Remember, your kid has no quantifiable problems.  What did you send her away for?